Problem with that was that they changed the characters in a not-credible way.
I don't mind changing the direction as long as it makes sense. However, they had already established so much of a their characters by the time they changed the direction that they went against the character profiles they created.
That reminds me of an interview that TPTB did before the beginning of S6, they were talking of "a lot of personal stuff of the characters to come, much more than before". Well, what happened is that they tried to stuff so many things into some characters that they messed it up, especially because they, like you said, changed the directions to the contrary of the original profile. Now it´s not that people can´t or don´t change, but then there´s a meaning behind it, something to make sense, and that didn´t seem so in the show. They threw them at our feet and didn´t explain much. And worst of all it seemed as if they had written the stuff without any enthusiasm, being careless about whether or not this would all fit.
I know.
I still wonder if Lenkov's departure also might have had to do with the "odd choices" MK was faced with
Could well be that there were disagreements between him and the other writers.
Haylen I still wonder why they brought her in. I think she was supposed to be a counter-part to Adam. Many were upset because they had said Angell was written out b/c of paycuts, so why bring in a new character if she had to go (though already back then there were rumors that it wasn't the paycuts...)
In any case, Haylen was sort of silly and they could have just brought Kendall back.
Aubrey came for the love triangle, as did Peyton yet we never got the cliffhanger of who Mac would have to chose... I don't mind the least but the problem with that was, that PV got overly excited with her Twilight reference and the fans weren't. No surprise there, I mean, if you had paid attention to the general reaction before you would have known that it wouldn't be popular, thus the spoilers were huge, the episodes were weak and it all sort of faded into nothing.
I agree, it was firstly a bad timing to bring in Haylen when they just had fired Vaugier and from that interview I read of her, it was really a pay cut thing, she confirmed it. So no one could understand why they brought a new character when there were allegedly financial problems. Secondly Aubrey wasn´t an emphatical character, she was bitching up Adam and seemed after his job- so how could they even dream that anybody would like her, someone so silly being annoying to Everybody´s Darling? They realized their mistake and off came she and the story remained unfinished. And so it went on, Aubrey came and as much as I remember it wasn´t originally planned to make it a love triangle, Aubrey was supposed to become Mac´s new love interest. Why on Earth PV got the idea to write Peyton back and create a soap opera story will remain her secret. But apparently she realized it was a stupid idea and so she let it slip, the next unfinished story, though not one to miss. The Twilight reference was utterly embarrassing IMO, can´t help it :lol:.
I agree that there doesn´t necessarily have to be an arc every season, but they talked a lot of a Hawkes-arc to come and HH himself tweeted about it, let alone the love interest that was to come- but then what came was a very poor single Hawkes episode that wasn´t worth the fuss. They announced so many things for S6 that never came true that it seems to me that they had a lot of problems with creating stories for S6, a certain lack of ideas, being not happy with what they wrote and therefore threw it in the dustbin, came quickly up with something hastily written down- and it showed, it showed a lot.
It's strange... it seems like they only chose her, so I wonder why not any of the others. I mean, I adore him, he's eye-candy but it would be easier to get "rid" of Flack/Cahill altogether and bring in different detectives. Would be more credible anyway, the CSI's wouldn't naturally work with the same detective each and every time. And they could have written him out by making him want a fresh start somewhere else because of Angell. In any case, it's strange that it seems to have been only MK... Or the others accepted cuts without complaint though I would want to think they didn't.
I don´t know what happened behind the scenes, if she was the only one or if she was the only one not accepting the new conditions of the contract with which they came up. Well, they shouldn´t have killed Angell, that was somehow the turning point, from there on the misery began, because originally they probably had planned a completely different cliffhanger, then they chose to sack Vaugier, re-wrote everything and from there on it was all confused, they never found their way back on the right track.
There are probably very few who wouldn't have accepted.
That´s true, that´s too much of an amount to refuse.
Just said to a friend: the word is greed. Greed is ruling the world and it's ruling the show business as wel.
Especially the show business, right after the politics.
That was what Helgenberger said that they all had a cut last season because of the economy. I doubt the executives got cuts
Now that´s like in the politics: the politicians increase taxes and whatever to fix the economy, but of course, they do not cut their own salaries
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Could it be that they wanted to get rid of her? If they knew negotiations would come and that Helgenberger wasn´t sure as to whether she´d stay or not, maybe they thought if they´d demand another pay cut, she´d leave voluntarily. But on the other hand, she´s a co-leading and popular character, why want to get rid of her? But you can never know.
That's how it sounded like in the interview. She said she's gotten several scripts sent and since it had been only three weeks... they must have arrived rather quickly. Good for her. She deserves it.
Yes, apparently word spread quickly that she was going to leave, so they sent in the offers, happy that she´s eventually free to be approached.
I agree - with everything
I think MK might have had the most to "play with" anyway. With the background story they gave Stella... and they established her background right from the start. With Mac it was different, he got fed bits and pieces.
But MK knew right from the start that there were a couple of things and she wanted Stella to go somewhere, as she said. She had the chance to go somewhere, Mac sort of seemed a finished character while Stella was still growing.
Good
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And I agree with everything, too
. Stella wasn´t a finished character like Mac, just the opposite. With that background MK could develop Stella more and more and for a long time the writers were of much help with the stories. But Mac somehow seemed and seems to be just the ex-marine and lonely widower. Sometimes we find out something more, like about his father, but that is very rare compared to Stella´s history.
In the end MK got nowhere with Stella, because they seemed to have no good ideas anymore of what to do with this character. Shame on them.
Now we have confirmation, great. Can we get a certificate or anything?
Or a medal?
She's saying she was asked to revisit certain clauses in her contract. She talkes about plural. Unless she talkes generally because she didn't want to say specifically that it was just one clause - the money. They talk about it in the next question anyway.
But she does say that the network/production tried to impose odd choices on her... Not sure what to make of that, however, there surely must have been a reason why she didn't return for one or two episodes. I think, if the network tried to keep her at all costs, as she said they did, then they would have wanted to make her come back for one or two episodes. Question is, how they wanted her to come back.
Yes, I noticed that, too, and wonder what exactly she means with it. But I agree, since they had taken back the pay cut, there must be other reasons as to why MK didn´t return for one or two episodes. Maybe she didn´t like the story they had thought out for her goodbye. Didn´t she also say that she won´t watch how they´ve written Stella out? That sounds as if she doesn´t have much trust in TPTB´s writing skills anymore, as if she thinks they´ll create a stupid story- well, how right she is
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I agree with that one. They definitely should end it after season 11 and we both agree on when NY should end
Absolutely
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Of course it is, the problem is that they established too strong a character in Stella and had a too strong actress in MK for Stella to just go away. There are certain characters in the show I wouldn't mind leaving but even though she wasn't a regular I minded Angell leaving. She was a great character as well and it was a pity she left.
Exactly, that´s the crux, with some other characters it wouldn´t have been a problem if they´d left, they are not too important and not really supporting the show. Agree, Angell was great, even if she was "only" a recurring character, and Stella was of course highly important and carried the show and I agree, her interactions with the other characters helped them to form and develop.
Well, the entire executive team. But generally, the actors have the fewest to say. If you don't like what's done, leave. Most, I think, don't have the courage to walk away.
Yes, that´s the point, unless they are co-producers; I guess GS might have a bit more say. I agree, most rather accept worse conditions than to leave, because it´s convenient to play in such a show, a pretty safe job and some might be afraid of not finding an equally good and well paid role.
Yes, it was but even in their case it wasn't that smooth. Okay, with Aiden it was... but it was in an interesting way and they respected Aiden's departure and showed the new one coming in and all. But they're not even doing that.
I agree, Aiden´s departure was well written and interesting, the story made sense. OK, with Aiden they had more time to prepare her exit, because Vanessa told them she wanted to leave, but one should think they´d have enough imagination to create a proper story for Stella´s departure in a short time. But like you said they´re too lazy to deal with it, rather they just jump in time and all has happened months before and they just go on as if nothing at all has happened. How that´s supposed to make sense.....
Though are we really less involved? We care and we care in a different way and I, for example, if I care, I get very critical and analyze and thus see mistakes very easily. It makes it difficult to enjoy something but in NY's case, if there's trouble I want to see how it can be fixed and then want to fix it.
So, it's being involved in a different way. I guess, CBS is above all interested in money... I'm not. (that's why they have it and I don't
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Well, we are involved as fans and viewers, and sometimes I can´t believe why I bother so much with just a TV-show, as if I don´t have enough other things to care for :lol:, but I used to love this show and seeing it go downhill and how they let one of their finest just go away- well, that bothers me a lot
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Yes, that´s the problem, CBS only see the Dollar bills, we are a bit more idealistic and therefore rather poor :lol:.
Not necessarily that but also fans reaction. Though I think they could predict a lot of fans reactions if they actually paid attention to what is said all around them.
But it's why they release spoilers and release them in the way they release them. To get people talking. The silly thing about it by the time they release them, the basis is already done and they can only change the course whatever they planned is going.
They´d only have to read the fan forums sometimes to know from which direction the wind blows, but they probably don´t or don´t care, though they always claim to be interested in the fans´reaction to certain stories.
Yes, with the spoilers they keep us awake and interested to discuss the stuff, but I don´t think our opinions have a lot of influence. Maybe Haylen would have been sent off anyway without them knowing that she wasn´t popular, e.g..
Agreed. Also, it seemed they didn't realize that a lot of people love that chemistry of Mac and Stella and that to a lot of people it was a part of the show. They killed that in the second half of S6 becaue of their triangle.
But they never needed a kiss, they just needed the speculation of will they or won't they, the flirting, the occasional dinner, the close friendship. They could have just gone on with it. What they did was so unpopular in so many ways and didn't only upset the Mac-Stella shippers but also those who just wanted to see an CSI episode or simply like the banter of Mac and Stella and how they interact.
I agree, it was good the way it was until they stopped it in S6 for whatever reason. Maybe they thought it was time for something new in the show: the brilliant love triangle
, but if they thought this would work then they were either naive or underestimated the fans´opinions (once more). Because the great chemistry of the two leading people of the show was its essence, nearly everybody loved it, no matter how they interpreted it, either as more than friendship or not, but that was up to everybody. The main thing was that it was something special and outstanding and they gave it up for nothing. Now they´ll see what they got.
Now I again was trying to be so polite...
OK, so I take the mean part
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In the beginning of what? Season 6 or the first season?
First season.
Does that mean the communication is dead now? Those should be fun dialogues... easy to learn though ;
)Well, don´t know, maybe a communication breakdown
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Well, you don't need to think she was annoyed with it, she said so... in between the lines. She said that Stella wasn't with the other characters as much anymore to the point where Stella wouldn't have tolerated it.
I don't think it felt like she didn't belong, they just made the characters too much individuals. Because there were Danny and Lindsay and then there was Mac and then there was Stella and then there was Hawkes but the team was sort of lost. If there was interaction it was mostly work related apart from that one dinner they had and Christmas, well, again, it's back to the second half of season 6.
Absolutely agree. And it was so obvious in the first half of S6 that Stella wasn´t her old self, but instead of elaborating and explaining it with a subtle story, we just had to take it and wonder, and MK did the same.
True, there was much less interaction, scenes like in "Manhattanhenge" and "Second Chances" were exceptions.
I've always had the same association when hearing that... who knows such a story might have been more entertaining...
Though it was entertaining... but not in such a good way.
Oh, yes, Aubrey and Peyton lost in the Bermuda triangle, Mac playing the hero trying to find them and unfortunately it turns out that for once he can´t defeat the enemy
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I know only little and what's on wikipedia but that's enough for me... Enough to comment and have a certain idea of him.
Well, I should check good old Wiki, but I sense I know what I´ll find
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Yeah some things should better be discussed in private... which you're welcome to, if you want
Thank you, I´ll come back to that offer
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Don't know if it didn't work out or just was forgotten again.
Hm, hard to tell, maybe they just wanted to point out with the two that it is like in real life: with some people you hit it off immediately, with some never.
Yes but Danny was the father and she sort of confided into Stella that she was scared about the safety of the baby and it wasn't like Stella hadn't found out. But at that point they still kept the baby a secret and Lindsay wanted to know if the baby was safe.
That they told Mac was because they had to, at that point.
But Stella knew before him, in a way.
Yeah, it was her way to tell Stella she´s pregnant, and she didn´t really make it too hard for Stella to find out, but still I think she could have told her straight away. If they had been real friends, I´m sure she would have done so.
And Mac´s the boss, alright and they had to tell him some day, that´s true.
I never paid attention to that, I found Mac and Stella more interesting to watch...
Well, if ever you watch that one again, try to keep your eyes off them and on Stella and Lindsay
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I never saw Stella and Lindsay as great friends. They just don't got well together, not as Angell and Stella. They hit it off and I couldn't see the scene with Angell and the Greek coins with Lindsay. That wouldn't work. But Lindsay wasn't really close to anyone... or isn't.
I think it might have to do with the actress or how the role is written. Maybe both.
I think Aiden could have been more interesting as a character.
As I said they just didn´t ever have the chemistry, that happens. Angell was completely different, and I agree, Lindsay isn´t really very close with anybody. It´s maybe both, AB developed this role to that, either deliberately or not.
Yes, pity Vanessa wanted to leave, she was by way much more interesting.
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that...
Good, so hey Mr. Bruckheimer, read this
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Not really and I don't think she'd think that. And the crimes committed haven't got anything to do with the oil or the problems of the aftermath of Katrina. At least the crimes she can solve have nothing to do with that. It's crimes which were committed nevertheless but her job concentrates on other crimes.
So, I guess, no matter how we say it or from what point we view it, it won't make any more sense or respect her character any more...
Yes, I agree; in NO she wouldn´t do anything other than she did in NY: solving crimes, most ordinary, some less ordinary, but that´s all she can do there.
Sarah: We´re not comparing Melina´s salary to Sheen´s. But isn´t it firstly in general totally out of proportion to pay someone such an amount for EVERY episode and secondly why then should other actors accept pay cuts? I´m not saying Melina should earn 1,5 Mio per episode, too, but she was right not to accept another pay cut either when at the same time other actors´salaries rise and rise, and he isn´t worth that much, it´s not a role that demands world class performance.
Yes, they took the pay cut back, but alone the attempt that they tried to cut it down was a shame and so she was right not to change her mind; after all she has to keep her pride and there were also other things concerning her contract where they had disagreements.
