Season 8 **Spoiler Lab** - 'Feast Your Eyes...'

[GregNickRyanFan]

I'd bet any money they just took Ryan's part out altogether. To me that'd make more sense, since apparently he was going to have met Calleigh, but he doesn't remember her when he actually begins to work there? Huh?

They should add Ryan in there somewhere as well as Nat, otherwise they might as well be saying that the two of them are not as important to the team as the others are (especially since they're also gonna have the new guy in the flashback). If Ryan and Nat are not in the flashback at all, I'm going to be pissed. I don't care how dumb the storyline is. They should have nixed the flashback when Rory turned them down, period... rather than leaving characters out, that isn't right. They don't even have to tie it in to the others (meaning they don't have to have Ryan and Nat having met any of the other characters before). They could just show a flashback of Ryan studying a forensics class or something. Or maybe Ryan could just be amongst the crowd at a crime scene that Horatio's working. As for Natalia, she could just be working in the same room with the agent that Horatio talks to.

As for the original Ryan/Speed scene, they could pull an Angel when Sarah Michelle Gellar couldn't or wouldn't return to that show. They could just show the back of Speed's head and have it be a stand-in and just show Ryan walk up to Speed and ask directions and have "speedle" point him in the right direction without any words. :lol: And the camera would be behind the Speedle stand-in so we wouldn't see his face, but would see Ryan's.

Actually, there's an episode in season 3, I think, where Ryan tells Calleigh he attended her class. SO he DID remember her.

That class was less than 12 years ago though. He may remember her from a class he took of hers maybe a couple of years before joining the team, but the flashback is 12 ago (that would be before Ryan took her class). And if we're going to see a scene where Ryan meets Calleigh 12 years earlier, then I believe that he would have remembered her from that as well. I mean, she's an attractive woman and what guy isn't going to remember her when he ends up working with her later on and she hasn't changed that much?

 

[Wasabi Power]

^ Yeah, I can see the flashback scene with Ryan and Cal work. It's not unusual to bump into a person once or twice if you're interested in the same lab they're working at, and the same field of work. It's about sticking close to a source, and in Ryan's case it's the crime lab in Miami. For him to bump into her more than once is completely understandable...
Perhaps they'll use some of the season to explain his choice in patrol, though, since that seems to stick out a little to me. Meh, prolly not.

---

I think it will truly suck if Ryan's not in the flashback because I doubt there'll be much of him or Nat in the episode at all, but then again, I reiterate that if TPTB aren't going to do it right they shouldn't do it at all. It's not worth the 5 seconds to me if I'm not gonna buy it.

 

[delkolover]

I think it will truly suck if Ryan's not in the flashback because I doubt there'll be much of him or Nat in the episode at all, but then again, I reiterate that if TPTB aren't going to do it right they shouldn't do it at all. It's not worth the 5 seconds to me if I'm not gonna buy it.

Exactly don't force it if it is not going to work....I would rather you leave it out than put it in and ask me to believe something that obviously is soo unbelieveable that it ruins what you are trying to accomplish. I would understand as fan that in order to make it work, he and Nat wouldn't be there. Alot about this show is unbelieveable so if a flashback, imo, would be a little bit more believeable if they weren't there.....you are asking the fans to accept too much by trying to fit them in when it is apparent to everyone that they weren't there and you yourselves introduced them as completely new characters not just to the show but to the team as well.

They should add Ryan in there somewhere as well as Nat, otherwise they might as well be saying that the two of them are not as important to the team as the others are (especially since they're also gonna have the new guy in the flashback). If Ryan and Nat are not in the flashback at all, I'm going to be pissed. I don't care how dumb the storyline is. They should have nixed the flashback when Rory turned them down, period... rather than leaving characters out, that isn't right. They don't even have to tie it in to the others (meaning they don't have to have Ryan and Nat having met any of the other characters before). They could just show a flashback of Ryan studying a forensics class or something. Or maybe Ryan could just be amongst the crowd at a crime scene that Horatio's working. As for Natalia, she could just be working in the same room with the agent that Horatio talks to.

As for the original Ryan/Speed scene, they could pull an Angel when Sarah Michelle Gellar couldn't or wouldn't return to that show. They could just show the back of Speed's head and have it be a stand-in and just show Ryan walk up to Speed and ask directions and have "speedle" point him in the right direction without any words. :lol: And the camera would be behind the Speedle stand-in so we wouldn't see his face, but would see Ryan's.

Actually, there's an episode in season 3, I think, where Ryan tells Calleigh he attended her class. SO he DID remember her.

That class was less than 12 years ago though. He may remember her from a class he took of hers maybe a couple of years before joining the team, but the flashback is 12 ago (that would be before Ryan took her class). And if we're going to see a scene where Ryan meets Calleigh 12 years earlier, then I believe that he would have remembered her from that as well. I mean, she's an attractive woman and what guy isn't going to remember her when he ends up working with her later on and she hasn't changed that much?

I don't think it would deminish their contribution or place on the team at all. The writers are going back to the very beginning and they weren't there in the very beginning. To force it and make them be there, imo, breaks apart all the continuity and background info you have built up and introduced to us over the years. Jesse is a different story b/c he is a completely new character to us and he can be introduced as being there 12 years ago b/c you have developed his backstory yet....this ep does some of that.

The fact that Ryan and Nat were introduced as completely unknown to the team makes the notion of bringing them back unbleievable b/c as you say; "how can you not remember someone like that?" And sure Ryan took one of Cal's seminars but that was more than likely way after he graduated the Academy and this is supposed to have taken place. You are asking the fans to ignore too much and I feel it cheapens things b/c the only reason you are putting them in the flashback is b/c they are apart of the team now.

You guys wouldn't be ok with or understand if writers decided that in this one part of this one episode Ryan and Natalia are absent if it meant having the episode work and be believeable? I mean this is supposed to be a pretty pivotal ep....it is how the team was formed; back then. We know how Ryan and Natalia became part of the team. So if they are not there in the flashback when the ep premieres....I will understand why.

 

[TanyaWolfe]

Actually, there's an episode in season 3, I think, where Ryan tells Calleigh he attended her class. SO he DID remember her.

That class was less than 12 years ago though. He may remember her from a class he took of hers maybe a couple of years before joining the team, but the flashback is 12 ago (that would be before Ryan took her class). And if we're going to see a scene where Ryan meets Calleigh 12 years earlier, then I believe that he would have remembered her from that as well. I mean, she's an attractive woman and what guy isn't going to remember her when he ends up working with her later on and she hasn't changed that much?[/QUOTE]

You're absolutely right!!!! I forgot to THINK before I wrote that thread... :lol:

 

[Wasabi Power]

And honestly, if Ryan and Nat are underused in this episode it's not anything we're not already used to. =/ As sad as that is...

This season holds a lot of good and bad anticipation for me. I'm excited to see all our favorite characters again, I'm excited to see Jesse interact with the team and what place he'll take, and I'm excited to see if this season really will define itself in a better way.

However I am also concerned with Adam's departure, and with the prospect of Jesse being overdone and Ryan and Nat getting nothing better than before. (Consider that Jesse is getting a lot of face time in relationship to Ryan who got maybe 1 scene in his 2nd or 3rd episode on the show! That was kinda lame.)

This season will be worth it to me if they drop the Ryan getting in trouble stigma and possibly hook him up with a decent storyline or fallout from WISC.

 

[greatfan]

This season will be worth it to me if they drop the Ryan getting in trouble stigma and possibly hook him up with a decent storyline or fallout from WISC.

I doubt that the writers would come up with a decent story line or fallout from WISC without pulling the Ryan in trouble stigma.They are probably saving that story for a time when it is decided he will be in trouble again.

 

[delkolover]

And honestly, if Ryan and Nat are underused in this episode it's not anything we're not already used to. =/ As sad as that is...

This season holds a lot of good and bad anticipation for me. I'm excited to see all our favorite characters again, I'm excited to see Jesse interact with the team and what place he'll take, and I'm excited to see if this season really will define itself in a better way.

However I am also concerned with Adam's departure, and with the prospect of Jesse being overdone and Ryan and Nat getting nothing better than before. (Consider that Jesse is getting a lot of face time in relationship to Ryan who got maybe 1 scene in his 2nd or 3rd episode on the show! That was kinda lame.)

This season will be worth it to me if they drop the Ryan getting in trouble stigma and possibly hook him up with a decent storyline or fallout from WISC.

Yeah I hear ya.....I have reservations and great anticipation for this upcoming season. I don't know what to make of Jesse yet b/c haven't seen anything of him but I am not a huge fan of Eddie C and I hope the writers don't put him front and center b/c he is new. Or have him replace Eric in more ways than one and have him be part of a Bromance with H I feel that aspect of the show is overplayed as it is....this show has been way too fractured for far too long and I don't see a new character helping that.

The writers, seen in the spoilers we have thus far, seem to be attmepting to do a 'reboot' of the series and it could either go great or it could go horribly wrong. Last season, for me, overall was one of the better we have had in a while. There were moments where the "team" shined through but they were brief. The stories were a little better...although if they really want to reboot they need to lose the "on going storyline" crap. Unless they can come up with something of the caliber of the "Mini Killer" then they need to simply go with what worked back in seasons 1 & 2; the team, the case and the forensics. I feel like the stories we see now are less about the victims and more about how big an explosion there can be, how creative a death they can come up with then it is about the murder they are trying to solve....I can't remember the last time I related to one of the victims or the survivors....they are often lost in the melodrama or outrageousness of this show. So if they really want to get back to what made this show sooo popular; they need to get back to that.

My apprehension about shows that reboot this late into a series is that you lose fans. When you attempt to take a long running show in a new direction....even if it is to go back to try to an old formula....you alienate people. Add to that bringing in a new character....things just get lost or feel forced b/c it becomes obvious you (the writer) are uncomfortable doing it. Sometimes the fix can be worse than what was wrong in the first place. I am not saying the show should continue on as it was b/c it shouldn't. It definately veered off course somewhere around season 4...but don't forgo some things in order to make other things work in attempt to get the "glory days" back.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

They can still have Ryan and Natalia in the flashbacks without tying them in to other characters. Like I said, Natalia could just be there as an "extra" in Horatio's scene with the FBI agent. Natalia could just be in the background and they just close up on her face for a second like they would someone working behind the counter at a restaurant the team went to for dinner or something. She doesn't have to have any interactions with any of the other main characters and she doesn't even have to have any lines. There would be nothing impossible to believe there.

They could do a similiar thing with Ryan. They could even just have someone mention his name. Or oohh I have it! Remember Horatio's line about Ryan being a cop being in his blood? Maybe they could say that Horatio has met Ryan's Uncle Ron. They don't even have to mention Ryan's name... they could just mention the name Ron Wolfe and that will be enough for me. And that could be done without breaking the fourth wall or whatever. We don't know a whole lot about Ron. Maybe he used to be a cop and Ryan followed in his footsteps. From the way Ryan's talked about his uncle, he was a big influence on him growing up and it sounded as if the two were close... so I've thought that maybe even Ron might have even had a hand in raising him.

 

[Wasabi Power]

Or oohh I have it! Remember Horatio's line about Ryan being a cop being in his blood? Maybe they could say that Horatio has met Ryan's Uncle Ron. They don't even have to mention Ryan's name... they could just mention the name Ron Wolfe and that will be enough for me. And that could be done without breaking the fourth wall or whatever. We don't know a whole lot about Ron. Maybe he used to be a cop and Ryan followed in his footsteps. From the way Ryan's talked about his uncle, he was a big influence on him growing up and it sounded as if the two were close... so I've thought that maybe even Ron might have even had a hand in raising him.

HMM. You raised an interesting point. What if the whole Horatio saying 'it's in his blood' thing was based on underlying knowledge instead of first impressions? Definitely could make sense if H knew an estranged relative of Ryan's and said those things based on that. :thumbsup:

 

[Composer1234]

wow! I went to sleep and woke up to 2 additional pages worth of posts to read! lol

firstly, the sneak peak!!!! O...M...G!!! I was in tears! 8.01 is going to be hard to watch without using up a box of tissue...It was nice to see the emotional side of H, although, I agree with the rest of you that Eric is not all H has got left.Family-wise he still has a son named Kyle;Team-wise he still has Calleigh who has also been there since day one and even before Eric became part of the team. I really miss the interaction H and Calleigh had in season1 + 2...remember when Hagon said something like 'this is a lonely road he[Horatio] is walking' and Calleigh reponsed 'and that's why I am walking with him'....those were the days.

The fact that Ryan and Nat were introduced as completely unknown to the team makes the notion of bringing them back unbleievable b/c as you say; "how can you not remember someone like that?" And sure Ryan took one of Cal's seminars but that was more than likely way after he graduated the Academy and this is supposed to have taken place. You are asking the fans to ignore too much and I feel it cheapens things b/c the only reason you are putting them in the flashback is b/c they are apart of the team now.

You guys wouldn't be ok with or understand if writers decided that in this one part of this one episode Ryan and Natalia are absent if it meant having the episode work and be believeable? I mean this is supposed to be a pretty pivotal ep....it is how the team was formed; back then. We know how Ryan and Natalia became part of the team. So if they are not there in the flashback when the ep premieres....I will understand why.

*Nods*

Ya, I agree with you. When they decided to put Ryan in the flashback as a lost student I thought it looked too forced, as if they HAD to somehow fit him. and like what Delkolover said, we know how they became part of the team and this was suppose to be a episode to explain how the rest (Calleigh, Eric and Jesse) became tide to H.

I really want to see the rest of the episodes! Looking forward to the next sneak peak!lol.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

When they decided to put Ryan in the flashback as a lost student I thought it looked too forced, as if they HAD to somehow fit him.

Well, that scene and the one with Nat would have worked fine if they'd been able to use Speed. Cause Speed had died by the time both of them joined the team, so it wouldn't be breaking the fourth wall to have had the two of them cross paths with Speedle... especially with the way Ryan looked at Speed's locker in his first episode.

 

[Wasabi Power]

I don't think it would be too much of a stretch if Ryan bumped into Cal. Like I said before, you're bound to bump into and interact with the same person once or twice if you're interested in the same field and exact same department as them. It's called connections. :thumbsup: Maybe Ryan will meet her briefly and never know her name or whatever. Maybe they changed the scene and he'll be looking down at a map, bump into her, say sorry and never look up.

My only concern is the visual appeal of young Ryan. If they can't pull it off properly then eh. It's 5 less seconds of Ryan in the episode. We're used to so much worse.

 

[delkolover]

I don't think it would be too much of a stretch if Ryan bumped into Cal. Like I said before, you're bound to bump into and interact with the same person once or twice if you're interested in the same field and exact same department as them. It's called connections. :thumbsup: Maybe Ryan will meet her briefly and never know her name or whatever. Maybe they changed the scene and he'll be looking down at a map, bump into her, say sorry and never look up.

My only concern is the visual appeal of young Ryan. If they can't pull it off properly then eh. It's 5 less seconds of Ryan in the episode. We're used to so much worse.

It could definately work the way you describe it. However, I don't think we will see a young Ryan since there is no guest character listed for him. So it leaves us with 2 scenarios: 1) they use Togo but age him with computer graphics or 2) they cut out the scene completely.

I also agree that the scene would been way more believeable and plausible had Rory agreed to reprise his role as Speed. B/c if he bumped into him and said his name we would get to see a young Ryan and Ryan being introduced as someone new b/c the one person who would have recognized him is dead. Like you said, it would really only be 5 seconds of no Ryan...we have gone longer w/o him in the past so.....

Something just hit me....an article said that Rory and Adam are close and Rory wouldn't do the show unless Adam gave him the nod that it was ok. And Adam insinuated via twitter that he didn't really want to leave. I can't remember exactly what he tweeted but it definately gave me the impression that him leaving wasn't something he completely planned on or necessarily wanted to do at all. Explains why his departure came out the blue like it did. So it got me to thinking; maybe his decision to leave isn't completely amicable and he might have told Rory to back away from the show b/c of that. IDK it is just a thought....I always found that peice of info to be interesting...why would Adam need to give the ok for Rory to do the show? Unless there was some animosity and Adam told Rory to say no b/c of the "poor contract negotiations" and it was a sort of "tit for tat" type if thing? It did kind of put a monkey wrench in the writers plans for the ep and it did make them look foolish in that they wrote and released the script w/o confirmation from Rory that he would return. Hell, I don't think they even asked him if he would come back before they released the script!!:lol: I think they asked him after they put the script out and fans got wind of it. Maybe they were hoping that the exciting reaction to the possibility of his character returning ( and not being an hallucination) would convince him to say yes?

Ahh the politics of Hollywood :lol:

 

[greatfan]

You guys wouldn't be ok with or understand if writers decided that in this one part of this one episode Ryan and Natalia are absent if it meant having the episode work and be believeable? I mean this is supposed to be a pretty pivotal ep....it is how the team was formed; back then. We know how Ryan and Natalia became part of the team. So if they are not there in the flashback when the ep premieres....I will understand why.

I probably would have been okay with it if there wasn't so much neglect before.We do know how they became part of the team,it just doesn't feel as if that's what they are,part of the team.Because this is a pivotal episode,it will set the tone of the season,at least for me.Leaving them out will just show we will be in for more of the same,they still aren't important enough to be seen as part of the team.Of course the episode is complete so what ever is done is done.The info on the opening page of this site states it is Horatio that flashes back 12 years(that is also stated on another site)If that is true,that can change how some of the flashback is presented.If Ryan and Natalia aren't in the flashback,I hope they are at least shown enough in the present day,that they aren't just all but forgotten.I hope that the writers haven't decided that it's alright to have Ryan ,and even more so Natalia, absent yet again.
How the team came to be didn't necessarily have to mean how the first team came to be.How the team came to be could have included everyone that is part of the team today also.The flashbacks,while starting in 1997,didn't have to be restricted to that year alone.The flashback could have included a series of first meetings,not all taking place in 1997.Because it is a pivotal episode,everyone should have and could have been included.

 

[Ajbuckly]

I'd bet any money they just took Ryan's part out altogether. To me that'd make more sense, since apparently he was going to have met Calleigh, but he doesn't remember her when he actually begins to work there? Huh?

They should add Ryan in there somewhere as well as Nat, otherwise they might as well be saying that the two of them are not as important to the team as the others are (especially since they're also gonna have the new guy in the flashback). If Ryan and Nat are not in the flashback at all, I'm going to be pissed. I don't care how dumb the storyline is. They should have nixed the flashback when Rory turned them down, period... rather than leaving characters out, that isn't right. They don't even have to tie it in to the others (meaning they don't have to have Ryan and Nat having met any of the other characters before). They could just show a flashback of Ryan studying a forensics class or something. Or maybe Ryan could just be amongst the crowd at a crime scene that Horatio's working. As for Natalia, she could just be working in the same room with the agent that Horatio talks to.

As for the original Ryan/Speed scene, they could pull an Angel when Sarah Michelle Gellar couldn't or wouldn't return to that show. They could just show the back of Speed's head and have it be a stand-in and just show Ryan walk up to Speed and ask directions and have "speedle" point him in the right direction without any words. :lol: And the camera would be behind the Speedle stand-in so we wouldn't see his face, but would see Ryan's.

?

Now see - GregNickRyanFan - you just wrote it as it should be.
That would solve some problems (Speedle not there and Ryans memories) and please more fans (not completely but at least the characters would be there). So please pay attention Miamiwriters:lol:.
But luf100 might be right.
1. As Eric is leaving. Out of respect for his fans overall spotlight on him. Thereby (In writers mind) keep flashbackscenes. (And did they have sufficent time to write something new with the same impact? )
2. Ryan might "just" have small scenes devised to show him as younger and "surprise Speedle is back" scene.

So if I (writer) was to find some solution to my troubles:
Rory turning them down, Jeseintroduction and having Alexx back as gift for fans??? Well; cut younger Ryan alltogether.
But- imo - the flashbackepisode is loosing momentom(?).