Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New York

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

I agree about what been said about Claire going back into the tower, it seems kind of stupid.

I would have much rather seen her trapped in there and Mac racing to get to her, but he can't get there in time because of all the chaos happening.

That's just how I would have liked to see it, oh well.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

I am gonna have to watch The Season Premiere on my DVR/Tivo on Sunday night. We are going to a football game. It is killing me. I am gonna be almost shaking by the time I get to see it.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

So why isn't Mac back with the team right from the start?

PS yeah, I'd have liked a different track with the flashback too...I always assumed that she was near the impact area and that's why they never found a body.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

8x02

tumblr_lrw15oWFPx1qec4oy


tumblr_lrw15oWFPx1qec4oy


tumblr_lrw15oWFPx1qec4oy
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Thanks for more clips & pics.

I still can't quite get over Messer's mustache :lol:.

Some interesting responses re Claire. Guess my mileage does vary yet again here :p.

I'm not gonna criticize how NY may have written Claire, not until at least I've actually seen how they've written Claire. I don't anticipate being disappointed, but I'll find out soon enough :p.

Among initial thoughts upon watching the clips was that I didn't know at what point within the timeline of events of 9/11 that they would write Claire, and I hadn't expected NY to have that sort of stutter step twist, and I was happy that they managed to surprise me.

I then thought it may prove more powerful for NY to have Claire at first largely unscathed, but then right in the middle of all what followed when the second tower was hit. If that phone call is the last contact she and Mac have, it's also something that would give him both a desperate hope and the worst fear. I can understand the show wanting that kind of intensity, and I hafta say, the more I mull it over, the more I like how NY seem to have sequenced things together.

I suspect there may have been additional careful consideration in the timing chosen, in that for many the second plane was what confirmed terrorism over accident; to have that moment be featured as where Mac among others makes that realization, after just having said that they at the precinct didn't know anything yet, and to have spoken to and then lost contact with his wife, while also witnessing what she and thousands of people were in the middle of by way of tv, before bolting down, add in being a veteran & NYPD protect and serve elements, well, again, I'll give the writers credit for the various layers. It's pretty tightly crafted, and gripping.

Besides, what, it's fine for Danny to want to run towards everything to help but it's not so appealing should NY write Claire wanting to do similarly? (if that is in fact what she does, after the second plane hits. There seem a few leaps being made or at least mulled that I'm not gonna run with yet).

Sidestepping slightly, in mulling the flashbacks in general, I'm also wondering if each character's recounting will relate to a different aspect of the timeline of attacks, as a way for the show to touch upon the whole chronology, given Mac/Claire seems to be the second plane, the Flack/Danny one, and the pic I recall of Hawkes, look like theirs could be after a collapse, Jo's in Washington, etc.

I get what other responses were saying, and I agree, to a point. I hope NY doesn't write Claire as an overly idealized angel, or have her on a pedestal, or as two-dimensional cliched awesomeosity. I hope that we'll get to see why Claire was Mac's partner and his equal and vice versa, that they'll actually write her with some substance, even if the screentime is limited. That we'll get some hint of what kind of relationship and dynamics they had, complete to her teasing him about what music he's listening to or whatever else they toss in there, stuff that makes her real, individual.

Mac losing Claire to 9/11 has been a key part of his character thru the whole dang series. I can't think NY would go to the trouble of writing and including her in an ep like this to make her a mere cutout, or worse, have any of it read as SuperMac and SuperMac's Wife. I think getting to see them together could actually make them both more human, not less. I also expect and hope that part of what will make the depiction powerful is the sense of confusion and helplessness amid the scale of events, for all of them, and for Mac in particular that he couldn't find or help Claire, and never had answers for what happened to her.

I hafta hope the show has come up with a tribute more considered than comic book versions of Big Damn Heroes. If they don't, for sure I'll have something to say about it. It's likely to draw many strong and mixed feelings regardless.

I'm looking forward to each character getting a moment of reflection, and yes, especially where Mac is concerned, given his back-story. For the moment, I'll give NY the benefit of the doubt that the ep may be as good as it looks like it could be.

Guess we'll see what happens.
 
Last edited:
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Danny was a first responder on that day. It's completely different for him to be shown as running to help than it is for Claire to be shown as being safe and going back into the towers. Because Claire was dead when the show premiered, her apperances have much more to do with Mac and who he is than with Claire as a stand alone character. The whole problem I have with Claire going back into the towers, if that's indeed how she dies, is the whole subtext/message that Mac's wife has to be the Big Damn Hero because nothing but that will do for Super!Mac. It has nothing to do with Claire being a woman or seeing Claire as heroic in general terms.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Elwood21 said:
Sidestepping slightly, in mulling the flashbacks in general, I'm also wondering if each character's recounting will relate to a different aspect of the timeline of attacks, as a way for the show to touch upon the whole chronology, given Mac/Claire seems to be the second plane, the Flack/Danny one, and the pic I recall of Hawkes, look like theirs could be after a collapse, Jo's in Washington, etc.
Click to expand...

Haven't thought about it before, but it's an interesting idea, and definitely it makes sense. It would suit the general idea of showing how this day effected different people, in different places, experiencing this from different perspectives.

Thinking about this episode now, I'm mostly excited about seeing HOW it's made. Of course, the question of the plot remains at the top of my list, but the whole contruction of an episode like this might be intersting. They have to put a lot into this: Mac working outside the crime lab and preparing to the ceremony, flashbacks, (I guess) the case Jo and the team would be working on (though here I'd vote for using this only as background, like, yes, guys, there IS a case somewhere. but this time it's not the most important thing), and the ceremony itself.
So I'm curious about dynamic and different emotions caused by different elements of this episode.

Elwood21 said:
I get what other responses were saying, and I agree, to a point. I hope NY doesn't write Claire as an overly idealized angel, or have her on a pedestal, or as two-dimensional cliched awesomeosity. I hope that we'll get to see why Claire was Mac's partner and his equal and vice versa, that they'll actually write her with some substance, even if the screentime is limited. That we'll get some hint of what kind of relationship and dynamics they had, complete to her teasing him about what music he's listening to or whatever else they toss in there, stuff that makes her real, individual.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. Well, as I said, it was kind of obvious Claire has to be 'the good one' (after all she's Mac's wife), but I really, really hope they won't go too far with this. Mixing this with elements you mentioned might be the perfect sollution, though.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

I then thought it may prove more powerful for NY to have Claire at first largely unscathed, but then right in the middle of all what followed when the second tower was hit. If that phone call is the last contact she and Mac have, it's also something that would give him both a desperate hope and the worst fear. I can understand the show wanting that kind of intensity, and I hafta say, the more I mull it over, the more I like how NY seem to have sequenced things together.

I suspect there may have been additional careful consideration in the timing chosen, in that for many the second plane was what confirmed terrorism over accident; to have that moment be featured as where Mac among others makes that realization, after just having said that they at the precinct didn't know anything yet, and to have spoken to and then lost contact with his wife, while also witnessing what she and thousands of people were in the middle of by way of tv, before bolting down, add in veteran & protect and serve elements, well, again, I'll give the writers credit for the various layers. It's pretty tight, and gripping.
Click to expand...

I really liked what I saw in the clip. It was intense and gripping and since it was cut off in the precise moment were Mac is shouting into the phone it left me basically with my mouth open. I didn't get the feeling she had gone into the towers to help people. I think that's what she wanted to do but the moment the second plane hit the tower she was killed (maybe by debris) thus losing communication with Mac. That's what I thought when I first saw the clip though it's conjecture on my part because the rest of the episode is yet to be seen. But if that's the case and she did die while on the phone with Mac...yikes :(.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Perfect Anomaly said:
Danny was a first responder on that day. It's completely different for him to be shown as running to help than it is for Claire to be shown as being safe and going back into the towers. Because Claire was dead when the show premiered, her apperances have much more to do with Mac and who he is than with Claire as a stand alone character. The whole problem I have with Claire going back into the towers, if that's indeed how she dies, is the whole subtext/message that Mac's wife has to be the Big Damn Hero because nothing but that will do for Super!Mac. It has nothing to do with Claire being a woman or seeing Claire as heroic in general terms.
Click to expand...
I'm not in the least suggesting that it's not appropriate for Messer to want to help, especially as an NYPD detective, but I'm also saying it's not inappropriate for Claire to help, or to want to help, even if she's not a first responder. I'm saying I don't expect duty to mean a double standard for who should be shown doing what in the ep.

I remain unclear about whether Claire was in a tower at all, or just in the immediate vicinity. I also didn't read the clip as Claire about to march against the stream of fleeing people to attempt to stage her own rescue of the trapped and injured. I also wasn't trying to allude to potential sexism, where general heroics or Big Damn Heroics are concerned.

Claire, however, is not safe at all, she's right in the middle of things as they're happening (whereas it possibly looks as if Danny was desperately trying to get there after at least one of the collapses). It could also be that she tries to help others around her as they all collectively try to escape from the area, if NY does in fact continue to depict her specifically within the ep after the cell phone call.

I agree it would be less than palatable if NY paints Claire as a big dang hero just to make her somehow a fitting partner for the SuperMac incarnation of his character. I'm also not gonna just assume that's how NY will present her just because of the occassional irritations I have with how they use Mac. I hope there are no Super incarnations of anyone.

I also get that her appearance is still about Mac, and less about her as an individual, but the stronger she is written and played as a character - in what amounts to the first real chance she gets to speak for herself - the stronger the loss the show creates for him, and the less it depends on past and present allusions to her and of her, and any idealized impressions of her that may have been received. It's an opportunity for NY to go with grit and not shiny, with human and not teevee hero. I think that's key to peeling back shielded parts of Mac's character in a meaningful way, and to showing him finding some of the solace and closure that NY has suggested.

If NY drops the ball with this, trust me, I'll have a problem with it too.

Ollie said:
Thinking about this episode now, I'm mostly excited about seeing HOW it's made.

....So I'm curious about dynamic and different emotions caused by different elements of this episode.
Click to expand...
Agree. It's a very ambitious undertaking. I hope it's one that turns out well.

My thoughts exactly. Well, as I said, it was kind of obvious Claire has to be 'the good one' (after all she's Mac's wife), but I really, really hope they won't go too far with this. Mixing this with elements you mentioned might be the perfect sollution, though.
Click to expand...
Well, I hardly expect the show to paint her a la a Camille type personality as a suitable partner for Mac :lol:, but definitely I hope her presentation is not overly idealized.

hiphugger17 said:
I really liked what I saw in the clip. It was intense and gripping and since it was cut off in the precise moment were Mac is shouting into the phone it left me basically with my mouth open. I didn't get the feeling she had gone into the towers to help people. I think that's what she wanted to do but the moment the second plane hit the tower she was killed (maybe by debris) thus losing communication with Mac. That's what I thought when I first saw the clip though it's conjecture on my part because the rest of the episode is yet to be seen. But if that's the case and she did die while on the phone with Mac...yikes :(.
Click to expand...
I don't feel I know enough to conclude Claire returns to the towers, nor even to say that she was killed in mid-conversation. Dunno if the show will feature Claire further after that moment, or if that's Mac's last contact with her. One way or another, the second plane changed everything. I like what I've seen so far too.
 
Last edited:
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Elwood21 said:
I don't feel I know enough to conclude Claire returns to the towers, nor even to say that she was killed in mid-conversation. Dunno if the show will feature Claire further after that moment, or if that's Mac's last contact with her. One way or another, the second plane changed everything. I like what I've seen so far too.
Click to expand...

I'm voting for the first option (though, of course, I'm ready for being surprised). I don't think she was killed in mid-conversation. When I was watching this clip for the first time, I thought that she simply dropped the phone, patrified by what she saw and then, in the heat of the moment, with people running around her, she just didn't pick it up or couldn't find it.

We definitely saw not enough to make any sort of statements, which makes me even more interested in what's coming.
 
Last edited:
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Not to pre-judge, but after watching the promos, I do think this is going to be the best episode of CSI:NY, if not the whole franchise.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

Ollie said:
We definitely saw not enough to make any sort of statements, which makes me even more interested in what's coming.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I'm very interested to know exactly what Claire's story is and how much Mac knows about how she died. I also really want to know which moment in time will each character be experiencing in their flashback.
 
Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New

What made me think that she wasn't killed outside was that they never found her body, but now that I think about it more she could have still been close enough to the towers for her body to be destroyed by the collapse. Yeah, that's morbid to think of, but I was just trying to think of how it would make sense for her to be outside and still not be recovered.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top