"Redrum" Discussion **Spoilers**

Well even "friends" have disagreements. I don't think Sara despises Catherine. I do think that Catherine and Sara normally have a good working relationship but I wouldn't really classify them as buddies off-duty.

On another subject, I was so glad to see Bobby Dawson again. He actually had more than one scene in an episode! Yay!
 
Hello! I'm new and I'm delurking for a bit.

I really thought about this episode and there was a lot of wrong done on both sides. Catherine was not 100% right in how she handled it. Now noticed I said handled it. I realize her hands were tied, that she had to go a long with it.

Now I'm not saying she should have told the team what was going on, she knew they would figure it out and that she would have to explain her actions in the end.

I look back on one scene that I think could have changed the whole Nick getting mad thing. When she orders him away from the evidence.

Now you might ask what's that got to do with anything? I believe this is how it should have played out.

Okay so she tells nick to leave the evidence alone then...

"Nicky I know you think somethings wrong with this case, but you have to trust me."

"But Catherine you got the wrong guy."

"Nick just trust me, I promise it will make sense in the end."

And then he could have been okay but I don't like it and while it wouldn't be all flowers and warm fuzzys, the fallout wouldn't have been so bad.

Oh I know what some of you are thinking, that she shouldn't have to ask for their trust right, but hey they have all had a bad year, sometimes you need to hear it.

I'm not downing Catherine I could tell how uncomfortable she was the whole episode. She really didn't want to do it.

As a leader, she's okay. I think her and Grissom should be co-supervisors. They really balance each other out.

All in all a very blah kinda episode except for the great Hodges moments. *squeezes the man to death* He's my fave right pabzi?

Anyway next weeks episode looks like it might have some good spots. I fell out laughing when they open the umbrella in the morge and Keppler asks. "Isn't that suppose to be unlucky?"

Now I shall run away before people begin to throw rocks at me. Peace!
 
Nick didn't blow it... just imagine if you were in his place... would you go along with something you knew just wasn't right? And your boss was being dodgy about it... I give him kudos for being so observant... and I know Cath tried, but in the end, she couldn't catch the bad dude with out her guys... the way it should be.
 
So far as I'm concerned, Nick came out no better than anyone else in this episode -- instead of addressing the issue openly and confronting Catherine or Keppler head on, he pulled exactly the same stunt they did. Does he actually think Catherine (or Keppler, but to be fair nobody seems to trust Keppler anyway) is that criminally incompetent?
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But Nick DID address it openly! He confronted Catherine as soon as he found her out, but she pulled rank on him. That´s what caused the mutiny.
Also I don´t think the Young Turks thought Keppler/Cath were incompetent. Right off the bat they suspected IA or something corrupt. They knew that it was planned since they could put the pieces together by looking at how Cath had withheld evidence from the case from them and sent Henry out to tamper w the evidence at the lab etc.

Cath should have let her team in on it- she should have trusted them not to leak the case. But she didn´t- and I understand Nick is upset. In the end she ended up needing them to get the bad guy. Karma.

I´ve gotta go with Nick on this one. :cool:
 
I really LOVED the episode. I saw it rather late and was upset, but it was VERY worth it. Angry Nick rules. Of course I love him when he's quiet and sweet, but he can express himself so wonderfully that it is nice to see him angry too once in a while. I also like that cath really didnt want to decieve the team. The undersherriff...I don;t like him one little bit...abd keppler...This was all his fault...I still havent given him enough though to come to a proper theory, but i don't like him.
Everyone knows what my favorite 4 and a half scenes were, but I really liked the episode, even unrelated to LOTS OF DAVID. Cosmorain, did the socks kill you too?

there were funny bits, sad bits, happy bits...everything. Good ep.
 
AureliaPriscus said:
See, a sensible sort wouldn't turn a blind eye, but they wouldn't sneak around plotting a coup d'etat, either. So far as I'm concerned, Nick came out no better than anyone else in this episode -- instead of addressing the issue openly and confronting Catherine or Keppler head on, he pulled exactly the same stunt they did. Does he actually think Catherine (or Keppler, but to be fair nobody seems to trust Keppler anyway) is that criminally incompetent?

And it's worth mentioning that, whether people like it or not, the "reverse forensics" thing worked. The idea wasn't to have that fake crime scene fool the team forever; both Catherine and Keppler knew it was impossible to stage the scene properly (lacking the brain and bone matter, for one, and how the heck was Keppler supposed to dust the bullet with bone and glass fragments, anyway?) so they did the next best thing -- keeping the others away from the evidence until their baddie finally resurfaced.

And it worked, mutiny or not. Had the Undersheriff actually cleared it with the DA, they could have had the man in custody while finally making the connections to the other murder.

And you know, I'd think people would see Nick's property crimes assignment as a compliment -- if Catherine wanted him that out of the way, it has to speak highly of her opinion of him. :)
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How exactly did it work since the case was thrown out? And again, Nick confronted Cath, and she pulled the supervisor card on him. She could have simply told him; "Please Nick, trust me on this one, I'll tell you later."

And the fact that she wanted him out of the way because she knew he's pick up on things is a fact that we knew, as viewers, not Nick who was forced into the dark and to watch an innocent being framed.

No, Cath screwed up big time by not telling.
 
It worked because it flushed Simon out and they arrested him. That was the point of the whole exercise. Cath, Brass and Keppler did what they had to do to get the job done, period. I agree that it did work.

When it came time to knock this thing outta the ballpark, the Undersheriff screwed up.
 
Finally watched this episode and sorta wish I hadn't. I thought it was stupid. First, there's the 'reverse forensics' thing that smacks on entrapment - not allowed, and then, tampering with evidence on more than one occasion. That whole fiasco brings the integrity of the entire lab into question. Any defense attorney can have a field day with them in the future. "Hey, you faked a crime scene and tampered with evidence. How do we know this isn't the same thing?"

For all the folks saying Grissom wouldn't have done this because he is a paragon of virtue........Please remember, he's involved in a 'secret affair' with his subordinate. Sorry, but that's generally considered unethical behavior. That with standing, Grissom has made mistakes such as telling Tammy Felton's parents because he wanted to see how they would react.

Realistically, Catherine could have taken it to a higher power, citing that it was unethical and risked the integrity of lab. They could have had their 'drama' by making her a 'whistle blower' and I think everyone would have emerged unscathed.

Overall, I agree with the statement that this was 'drama for drama's sake' and I don't like it either. Personally, I'd settle for them writing a plotline that didn't have holes in it big enough to drive a Mack truck through!
 
"What about my socks?" so so funny, oh Pabzi it's so sad how much we love that man, so so sad.

I love how he was all like Grissom takes up for people and Keppler tried to be all smooth and be like well hey why did he leave then and Hodges expression was all like i know you just didn't.

I wish he would have stuck his tonuge out at him. :p Childish? Yes, but oh so David!

It's weird but I actually like Keppler. I hope they don't just throw him away on some stupid story line.

Peace!
 
Thank god for Hodges, man...He cuts the tension down with one look!

I wonder if the writers obsess about the aspects of an epi and fight over viewpoints the way we all do here?! :p Well, if the continuity we have seen thus far is any indication, I'd have to say...no!
 
grissom sending sara another plant shows how little he gets her. had me in tears of laughter, he really has no idea.

shows how fake gsr is too :p
 
oh please. it was a very grissom thing to do. hes not a romantic guy (billy peterson even called him asexual :lol:) and hes trying. the coccoon probably meant something important to him and sara doesnt understand the meaning. hes just more about symbolism than material things, its kind of sweet when you think about it.

as for turning a blind eye? i can tell you i sure as hell couldnt have done it. especially in law enforcement, you have the evidence that is going to break the case, and your supervisor insists on arresting the wrong guy? who in their right mind would stand by and let it happen? like someone said, catherine could have said 'trust me' and they could have run with that and had an interesting episode. and this is not about hating on catherine, i dont hate her. this is just the way the script was written. its true that keppler and her probably screwed up and lost the conviction, but it made for interesting tv. so big deal.
 
edog said:
It worked because it flushed Simon out and they arrested him. That was the point of the whole exercise. Cath, Brass and Keppler did what they had to do to get the job done, period. I agree that it did work.

When it came time to knock this thing outta the ballpark, the Undersheriff screwed up.
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They flushed him out and then he walked. And if it weren't for Nick and Sara finding the fingerprints he would never have been indicted for anything. I'd say normal policework would have tracked him eventually. The undersheriff was jumping the gun, just as Nick pointed out and Keppy and Cath followed without reflection.

Cath wanted a highprofile case and she blew it, she had the culprit walk since she went along with Keppler's more than stupid plan.

Cath put Henry in danger too, messing with a controlled substance that he was in charge of. I have no words of how badly Cath handled this, and for what? the guy would have walked if it weren't for the very people she didn't let in on the case.
 
They flushed him out and then he walked. And if it weren't for Nick and Sara finding the fingerprints he would never have been indicted for anything.
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Yeah, for anyone saying that the B-Team was equally wrong, they actually saved the case. And did so the way they were supposed to. Was going behind Catherine's back wrong? Not when she's wrong in the first place.

LOL I wonder whose scorn it really is. If Sara really despises Catherine that much, I don't think she'd take it behind closed doors. The reason why she would talk to Catherine in private, apart from that she might have learned her lesson from the incident in Nesting Dolls, is probably that she actually respected Catherine and didn't want to embarrass her in front of other people. Being one of those who enjoy watching the girls work together and get along, I'd like to think they're friends who sometimes have a drink and a talk together.
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I will agree with that. Sara was the third one to say yes, and it was more to solve the case than to "get back" at Catherine.
 
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