Arright. Sorry, but this is gonna be long. Even for me :lol:. My apologies ahead of time. I guess the lulls between eps is where I catch up
.
I dont know, it seems Stella is relevant to me
Hey if you like Mac and Stella, you like them, if you dont you dont. This is what keeps "the pot a stirrin" my friends!:lol:..MMMM I LIKE EM!!! :devil:
Stella seems relevant to include in the discussion as a friend and colleague. Not so much as part of the triangle arc. Three being Mac, Aubrey and Peyton. Even as a friend I don't get the impression that Stella will factor into any of it, beyond being someone Mac might speak to about it. The interviewer inserted Stella where PV had not. PV answered in a very typical way.
Sure, yes, if you like Mac and Stella, dandyo, if ya don't, dandyo
. Not exactly the point of the triangle scenario in question as currently set up by the writers
.
you mean wrap up the whole show? oh no, i think it'd be terrible. if the show, which is meant to be a procedural after all, ends with mac and stella riding off into the sunset, it would just undermine the whole thing by saying something like "well it was a procedural but hey, here's a lovely happy ending, look at the happy couple, isn't it cute!" - it would be awful!
That would feel a rather cheap way to end it
. I think I'd rather see the inference of the city carrying on, regardless of those who police it, that the characters truly do reside in context for the show, even as they have served as the lens to focus the view.
I agree it has started to become a soap opera/drama and straying away from the whole crime aspect,
Well, I just gotta say here that the inclusion of personal material is not the only corner where soap operatic melodrama might arise from. The series has certainly managed to hit cliched and eye-rolling heights in episodes where relationships weren't a factor at all. I think the writing overall needs to be tightened up, to be sharper, no matter what is being covered.
Originally Posted by Curiosity:
The series does seem to be at a crossroads right now and in need of some sort of shake up to generate(and sustain) greater viewer interest. In my view, the focus needs to be on the crime solving elements of the show -- coming up with more interesting (and plausible) cases, finding a way to rejuvenate some of the existing characters (like Danny), and perhaps adding another regular/recurring character (preferably a more youthful female presence) who can bring new energy and perspective, while also providing someone new for the other characters to interact with. I don’t think Mac’s love triangle (or Peyton and Aubrey for that matter) really help them in that way
Hmm. Lots of points in there
.
I agree about the show needing a kick and needing more challenging cases (for the characters and viewers both). I don't think it should jettison the inclusion of character-related material, but might perhaps sharpen how it's integrated. Flack still wins on that front this year. I don't actually think that S6 has been over-saturated with characters' personal material. I might tweak how some was written :lol: but not that it was there. Whatever is ailing the series, I think it stems from a noticeably flagging logic and consistency within the criminal framework that the show rests on. The cases alone have never been what drew me to NY, but they used to be ...juicier somehow, if also more tightly tied together by the ep's end. A tautly written balance and integration of characters and cases is what I'd love, whatever each component broaches weekly. I've said elsewhere that the characters need to be challenged, that if they, and we as viewers, are being run thru inanities to fill airtime, it's a waste. It's because we are attached to them that we want them to have good stuff to tackle. (To borrow from CM, Rossi: "...why do you care?" / Prentiss: "...because you do.")
I also think there's been a trend of wanting to have uber-nemeses on the show, big villains where personal stakes can be raised and drawn out over several eps, even clliffhangers. Cabbie Killer, Joe, Dunbrook, Compass Killer, Grave Digger, the dusting off of Shane Casey. NY could be in danger of adding Stunt Villain to it's substantial collection of other Stunt Variant options.
Dunbrook was among the better imo, it was an interesting and nice change up of mini-twizt to have him be a solid nemesis w/o being the villain, or at least the main villain. Shades of grey are interesting too. </random related abstract hmm>
Sometimes NY feels as though it's oversimplifying itself. </random related lateral hmm>
I think Danny's all but coded as a character. He's been in a coma for nearly as long as Louie. Mebbe the doomhanger will give him a bit of a charge. If not, his orange sweater will.
I would have mixed feelings on the possible introduction of a new Regular or Regularly-Recurring-Main-Not-Secondary Character. Sid and Adam are on rotation as it is, and Sheldon's only just starting to get to more to do and deal with. Were it to happen, I think I'd rather someone along the lines of a Sinclair or Gillian or Quinn, someone who can be a counterpoint, not necessarily a new team member. Wondering too if this can in part be addressed thru the likes of S5 multi-ep but contained guest appearances, where characters could fill a wide variety of roles and stances without being tied in. While a new voice could be good, I don't think the show managed to even present Haylen as a viable possibility. Had I not known of the spoilers, I'm not certain that I would have thought the show was seriously testing her out as a new character of any kind, I would have thought she was just there to push a few buttons. And she kinda was.
I think Aubrey and Peyton were solely intended as recurring but within specific arcs, Peyton then and both now. It could be that neither one of them will be an issue at all in S7 and the single sofa will emerge the winner
. The show could simply wring as much dramz out of the triangle crap as possible and move everyone along to get back to its Status Quo sooner rather than later next season.
I think the show's current Status Quo is what actually needs some serious tinkering..
I don't think Mac's personal stuff was intended to be anything other than his extended mini-arc, (much as Danny's and Flack's each crossed over more than one ep.), with his dilemma-wot-isn't arriving penultimately. It is kicking up a fair bit of dust in shipping lanes, granted :lol:, but I still can't see trying to make more out of it than would seem to be warranted.
I also think that while Aubrey's scenes in general have been limited, they've been knitted in pretty well. That whole "In The Field" thing people have mentioned. She was also even a plot pivot in RIP Marina, where she brought the clothes to the labs; that scene also happened to be backed by a minimalist but nice layer of character background for her, and had nice interaction with Mac; moreover it was prefaced with the really fun scene she had with Adam. That was a pleasant surprise of an inclusion, and far more than I was hoping or expecting of a mini-recurring LI character
. There could be more promise in her potential inclusion than might seem on the surface :lol:.
I think the procedural stuff is such an incredibly familiar rhythm to viewers that the content within that framework needs to be stepped up, the show can't just blandly rely on the gadgets and multi-syllabic words to fulfill it's mandate. Still, I don't think giving the characters personal material or issues to deal with while/due tackling weekly investigations detracts from this, in fact one can help the other. I think there's room, and cutting it from the mix altogether would thin out the show and make it rather anonymous. It would also be easy to get lost if the show ignored the "NY" part of its name, which, implying the city and the characters as part of it, supplies the fodder for it all to begin with.
Putting a leading man together in a serious relationship with a background character offers its own share of challenges, so I remain skeptical of their ability to integrate Aubrey in a meaningful way. And if she is relegated to a background / peripheral character, who only shows up occasionally, I am not likely to care much about the character or relationship.
A background character is still a better option than putting the leading man, or any main character on the show, in a serious relationship with
another main character on the show, when you're a procedural show. Sometimes less is more.
Care is a curious choice of word. By that I take it you essentially mean interested or engaged by. How much I'd Care I'd hafta wait and see
. I did say early on after Pot of Gold, that I liked the little we'd seen of Aubrey, enough so that I already felt kinda bad that she could find herself as part of the triangle circumstances :lol:.
I did like Peyton, for the most part :lol:, and whatever I had issues with I was prepared to either accept as part of her character or chalk up to another wish to grasp and shake the odd lapel in the writers' room
. I also liked the fact that Mac was being challenged by a variety of personal material in S3, by his relationships with Peyton and Reed as much as I liked either Peyton or Reed. In a way the characters and the relationships were one and the same, if that makes any sense. There were moments on the show that made me empathize or sympathize or both, (mebbe one 'size does fit all :lol
, but how much that equates with Caring...? :lol:. Dunno.
It will also be interesting to see what they've written for Peyton and how she comes across now that the anchors of being a love interest and NY ME are both in the past, and moreover, secondary to the case scenario that's brought her back.
Backtracking, I thought Rose provided a cute scene and a Significant Moment for Mac. To a lesser degree, I think Aubrey's hit that mark and moved beyond, given that he took it upon himself to ask her out after their deli encounter and literal exchange of words. (Something he'd not likely have done before Peyton, and even Gillian). In another related side step, I also liked Danny & Rikki. My point is that I like what all these scenarios brought to the table in a few concise scenes, I like they were from the outside world, I like that it changed things up a bit while still being connected to the work-related realm and not just tacked on. I think these character moments were well integrated and didn't detract from the cases or overwhelm their respective episodes. It is possible.
I think having Aubrey introduced and getting to know her at the same time as Mac gets to know her may mean that people can warm to her in her own right, and I think the scene with Adam was great in part for that reason. We're also not starting off as viewers trying to catch up on what brought them together as we were with Peyton. [That implication was clear, that it didn't matter so much as that the relationship gave Mac new circumstances to deal with and balance].
(NY in general doesn't always seem keen on answering Hows and Whys so much as expecting people to be impressed with the presentation of whatever is instead prompting said queried response </another random but somehow related hmm>).
Aubrey serves a similar purpose, I doubt she'll score reams of screen time, and I don't expect we'll see enough of Aubrey to Care deeply about her, not in terms of learning much about her months of bad days etc. But mebbe getting to know her and like her character and interaction with Mac as screen time is enough to hope for. I suppose I'm also very happy that Mac and Aubrey's early days have not in fact been rushed to reach a more serious status in order to up the ante of Peyton's return. The restraint is refreshing
.
Last. Beyond the question of how successfully or not a show may write and depict characters and relationships, I think there is an element of personal affinity and taste, which characters one may or may not gravitate towards to begin with, else I'm certain that the Couch would not have made it as a poll option, alongside Stella :lol:. Dare I do it? Yep, I durst
. Lindsay. The character who's both full time and part time at the same time (but in NY's Relative Experience of Time, anything is possible!
) ...Do I care about Lindsay being a love interest for the past three seasons? ...No. Am I interested or engaged? ...No. One could enter into a discussion as to whether she's been integrated meaningfully since she and Danny got together. She's not a character I have Cared much about whether she's been front and centre with full screentime or whether she's more recently been "relegated to a background /peripheral character who only shows up occassionally" :lol:. (And yes, how much Danny may be a love interest or currently relegated could also be a discussion
).
As for Stella, she is like the proverbial elephant in the room of sorts. Stella’s not part of the specific triangle, but she’s part of the discussion for a few different reasons, I think. If the resolution to the triangle hasn’t been determined yet, it’s possible the answer to Mac’s dilemma will be neither Aubrey or Peyton, which leaves Stella as a viable option (or perhaps alternative) for some.
Stella's never been the elephant in the room for me :lol:. Sorry, I do understand why some would so love to see them paired, but I was never one. It is entirely possible that Mac will emerge single yet again, but that still doesn't mean Stella somehow defaults into being the predestined Someday option or alternative.
Another issue with Stella is that, intentionally or not, she seems to be the most important person in Mac’s life (at least when looking at the totality of the series up to this point).
I don't necessarily disagree here. I think Mac's family is basically found in the lab and team, but I could say the same of the other characters. While we're starting to learn tidbits of the others' families, no one seems to be portrayed as particularly close to theirs. Besides perhaps Sid. I also think the show has written scenes to indicate a friendship with Sid, and that the show can't devote much time to implying there are solid long-term friendships outside of work; eps that have had Sheldon running into an old friend, or having the guy in Criminal Justice be an old friend, it's hard to make that suddenly fit seamlessly. Stella is also among the closest in age to him, at least if I go by my sense of time and not the show's :lol: (I would have put her in her forties), has near-parity on a professional level, and oh yeah,
they've been partners for years . So yeah, I see them as close. Doesn't mean I think Mac and Stella are Meant For Each Other
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So, when the writers give Mac (and Stella) other love interests, they probably also have to decide how to adjust the dynamic between Mac and Stella so as to accommodate the new relationship(s) while still sustaining what is arguably one of the better relationships in the franchise.
I don't think their friendship is ambiguous :lol:. I don't think a closeness or fondness equates with something "more," or with some aspect of their interaction needing to be shifted or altered or written around if either sees somebody. I don't think that friendship or sustaining it would somehow be compromised.
I'm not opposed in theory to Mac dating, and I like seeing smiling, happy Mac, too. But I also like the Mac who cares about going where the evidence leads, finding the connections, protecing the integrity of the lab, seeing that justice is done, etc. (even if he can be over the top sometimes about those things), and I'd rather see the writers focus on bringing out some of those characteristics again.
This? This I basically agree with, but think these are also the things that have been focused on to the point of formula with him, that have kind of relegated him to a certain function within episodes, perhaps because the case material in question doesn't challenge him much in how he has to go about it. I think he does need to be challenged more as a character, so that following the evidence means a convoluted riddle to unravel, protecting the integrity means confronting team members, budget cuts, politics, up to date equipment & tech, etc. again, it also means being held accountable, not just for his own actions or non-actions, but for those of his team (a la "how many grenades are you willing to jump on for your people"), pursuing justice might mean challenges in balancing the letter of the law and fallout from doing so, that sort of thing.
But I also think the added emotional component his being in a relationship could bring could be interesting and give him some added depth. I mean that while Mac could be implied as being in a relationship with dialogue and occasional scenes, the fact he's taking a chance on one could add subtext to how he deals with people and cases generally.
The show has used his past relationship with Claire to that effect. And no I'm not saying that the loss of one's wife is not a deeper internal pivot point for a character, I'm only saying that a character's emotional state of being or balance is also part of what they bring with them. Being single and singularly driven, so to speak, has made Mac a bit of a dull boy, and one who could remain a largely predictable functionary even if the show was able to step up the cases. Mac is not as unpredictable a soul as PV might like to hint at, not in how he's come across in the last while.
Also, I forgot to comment on the age factor, which was mentioned on an earlier page of the thread. Mac was established as 44 years of age in season four, so he should be about 46 years old in season six.
I've never had a problem with the age difference between Mac and his ladies, imo the show is pretty good at making it look as though there's only three or four years between them
The age thing hasn't been an issue for me, I tend to agree with
Maya there. (The only time it was, was when some had speculated/hoped that Ella might be a candidate for the Known and Familiar. And even then it was because there were so many other issues going on with her the whole picture would have been more than a little disquieting
).
I
did pokingly point out however, the actress playing Aubrey is around 40 and not in her twenties, but I don't think we yet know how old Aubrey is supposed to be; also pointed out that, if one goes by the show's calendar, that Stella could possibly be younger than Aubrey :lol: and so I was wondering how that was supposed to lengthen the list of all the things that supposedly make Stella the more appropriate match for Mac
.
I don't know if Peyton was supposed to be the same age as Claire Forlani, etc. I'll also just say that any prospective age difference between Stella and Adam wasn't what led me to tweak my eyebrows at that pairing either.
I have no idea how old the characters are all supposed to be. I have a greater issue with the show's fluid arithmetic and temporal practices than I have in the appearance of presumed convention and/or propriety, at least as seen in casting :lol:.
(...and Ha. Still made the limit.
)
