Jorja Fox Promises Return To 'CSI'

[Desertwind]

Here-here, good points Adzix all true.. your my role model and another great book is "How To Win Friends And Influence People" by Norman Vincent Peale.. & "on many fans don't like her" might want to do your research on that one, when she announced she was leaving mega petitions, were sent out, begging her not to leave, and a helicopter with a Banner flew over CBS, reading "Jorja don't go" not to mention many fan-sites dedicated to her. On this site alone she's got 3.. more love her than not. And on opinions, that's great but to keep repeating the same thing over and over is reduntant, and boring, what's the point? Here's an opinion, if I couldn't stand a character on CSI, I'd wouldn't want to comment on someone I don't like, it's like hanging out with someone you can't stand, who does that?

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

I really don't know where people are getting the idea that she is sleeping with the boss to advance her career

I don't think anyone is implying that she was sleeping with the boss to advance her career. However if you think back to an early season. If you remember (the episode name escapes me right now), she was upset with Grissom because he recommended Nick for the Lead CSI and not her. Why was she upset? Could it have anything to do with she just assumed Grissom would recommend her, that she knew that Grissom had feelings for her? So naturally, she thought he would recommend her? That's what I got out of it. I hope I explained that right.

But, no, I don't really thing she got into the relationship with Grissom to advance her career.

Yes, I agree, some rules are meant to be broken and thankfully, some have. What was said that Poland wouldn't be where it is now if it wasn't for rule breakers, thankfully, there were rule breakers. However the rule of boss/subordinate relationships are not on the same level. But we're, well, me anyway, are talking about the rule of supervisor having a relationship with a subordinate. There's a reason this rule is stated in practically EVERY company. So no, I don't think this rule should be broken.

Now, all those petitions, helicopters, etc. prove that Jorja/Sara has a lot of fans. But there also A LOT of people who dislike Jorja and/or Sara. Just because all of this happened doesn't mean that everyone likes her or the character. All the stars of CSI have many fan sites dedicated to them and there are many people who dislike the actor and/or characters.

If William Petersen decides to leave I'm sure the same thing will probably happened. And mainly, a lot of this happened with Jorja because everyone thought that she wasn't staying because she couldn't get what she wanted in her contract, which I still think is part of the reason she left. And no, I wouldn't blame her, I'm not paid what I should be at my job and want to leave also. I, also, totally respect her decision to leave to try other things. We all have to do that sometimes. And like I stated before, if she was so unhappy and upset with the firing, then she shouldn't come back, at least, not full time.

 

[Adzix]

^ a very good post. you've got some great points that i value.

our judgement towards Sara depends on whether we think her behavior was justifiable or not. you said no, i said yes. two different opinions, two different points of view which are both right on some level. i'm cool with that

 

[starzsgirl]

Yes, I've heard of 1984 and read it multiple times. Though a ruleless society would have been worse than one full of rules. Atleast with rules people think before they do, thusly people know where their morals lie.

Everyone is a role model whether they like it or not.

i don't think it's true. is Natalie Davis a role model to you? is Marylin Manson? you see people every day and it is you who chooses a role model for yourself. it's a person you admire and look up to. you can choose your parents or you can choose the pope. just b/c pope is not a CSI doesn't mean he can't be your spiritual and ethical guide. other CSI's can help you with the technical issues of how to do your job, they don't have to be your guru's. you still can think for yourself, or can you?

It's very obvious that Ronnie and Greg looked up to Sara and saw her as a role model. No she didn't tell them to do that to her, they did that on their own. They needed someone to look up to, someone to inspire them to do well in their jobs.

Are you implying that I don't have a mind of my own with the last statement of this? If so, I would recommend that you stop assuming things about people. If not, then exactly what did you mean by "you still can think for yourself, or can you?"

Here's an opinion, if I couldn't stand a character on CSI, I'd wouldn't want to comment on someone I don't like, it's like hanging out with someone you can't stand, who does that?

This discussion started with the annoucement that Jorja wanted to come back. People have freely expressed why they didn't feel that it would work. In turn they were jumped on because they don't like GSR, either of the characters, or don't want to see the orginal point of the show to be lost. Believe it or not there are people who will fight their side of an issue till the end, and many don't enjoy their words being twisted.

The whole GSR thing has taken the show in a direction that can border on soap opera at times. Yes it's nice to get background and outside information on the characters. But to keep making it seem like that's all it's about is not what some want to see.

I personally don't care what Grissom and Sara did/do on their off time but when it started effecting the job then it's a different thing. Like when Sara assumed that Grissom would recommend her for the special position, instead nominating Nick.

Now I'm not saying that there shouldn't be people falling in love, just not when it breaks apart a team that has been working well together for years. There are now trust issues towards both Grissom and Sara because of failing to be open about it. Most people don't want to work with someone who can't be honest.

However the rule of boss/subordinate relationships are not on the same level. But we're, well, me anyway, are talking about the rule of supervisor having a relationship with a subordinate. There's a reason this rule is stated in practically EVERY company. So no, I don't think this rule should be broken.

Exactly the point I have been saying for days now, thank you.

 

[Adzix]

Are you implying that I don't have a mind of my own with the last statement of this? If so, I would recommend that you stop assuming things about people. If not, then exactly what did you mean by "you still can think for yourself, or can you?"

it was a rhetorical question and you don't have to take everything personally. i think some people need to get a little distance to it, and just ... chill out. there is no need to be so defensive, i'm not attacking you. i'm only expressing my mind.

Yes, I've heard of 1984 and read it mulpiple times.

and you still agree that no rules should ever be broken? yes or no?

Though a ruleless society would have been worse than one full of rules.

i never said it would be better. i said that there are some exceptions in life where rules can be broken, and it's not necessarily an immoral thing to do. that book proved it, history proved it. and like i said before, even if the range of the issue is smaller here, i think Sara and Grissom's behavior wasn't immoral. they didn't save a country, but they saved themselves. i think it's enough.

It's very obvious that Ronnie and Greg looked up to Sara and saw her as a role model. No she didn't tell them to do that to her, they did that on their own. They needed someone to look up to, someone to inspire them to do well in their jobs.

i already responded to that.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

a very good post. you've got some great points that i value.

our judgement towards Sara depends on whether we think her behavior was justifiable or not. you said no, i said yes. two different opinions, two different points of view which are both right on some level. i'm cool with that

Thanks adzix and I agree with what you said.

wolfesgamergirl you're welcome.

Most people don't want to work with someone who can't be honest.

Let alone someone they can't trust, especially in this line of work where you have to trust these people with your LIFE!

I'm, also, for showing back stories and some personal stuff with the characters, but it shouldn't be the focus and/or shown in every episode. Without the back stories and/or personal stuff you get can't invested in the characters/show and care about them, as we all do. Which is the reason that everyone will passionately argue for or against that character(s).

 

[starzsgirl]

and you still agree that no rules should ever be broken? yes or no?

I already answered this by stating the following:

"Atleast with rules people think before they do, thusly people know where their morals lie."

Personal choice on which rules to break, but there are some rules that if broken really make others wonder why they would risk it.

it was a rhetorical question and you don't have to take everything personally. i think some people need to get a little distance to it, and just ... chill out. there is no need to be so defensive, i'm not attacking you. i'm only expressing my mind.

It's a bit hard to tell that the question was rhetorical. The vocal inflection is lost to words on a screen. Not being definsive, just wondering about the questions meaning.

Exactly, stokesgirl, honesty and trust are big things in a work place. And also very true in a job where others entrust their lives to their co-workers. There are split second decisions that have to be made and if the trust is broken, the actions will speak louder than words.

 

[Adzix]

I'm, also, for showing back stories and some personal stuff with the characters, but it shouldn't be the focus and/or shown in every episode. Without the back stories and/or personal stuff you get can't invested in the characters/show and care about them, as we all do. Which is the reason that everyone will passionately argue for or against that character(s).

i absolutely agree here.

Let alone someone they can't trust, especially in this line of work where you have to trust these people with your LIFE!

i think even if Grissom and Sara didn't share their love-lives with anybody else they could still be trusted in matters of life and death or other work related issues. i'd certainly trust them.

It's very obvious that Ronnie and Greg looked up to Sara and saw her as a role model. No she didn't tell them to do that to her, they did that on their own.

hold on. Ronnie wasn't there before S8, and as far as i recall, Greg told Nick that he knew about Grissom and Sara before everybody else (from Sara for that matter.) so the two people you are stressing that looked up to her, were probably never lied to.

i mean, so she should go to grissom and say "oh i've got this new CSI 1 and she sees me as role model so i have to break up with you"? hm.

I already answered this by stating the following:

"Atleast with rules people think before they do, thusly people know where their morals lie."

Personal choice on which rules to break, but there are some rules that if broken really make others wonder why they would risk it.

it that a yes? lol. cuz it's hard to say, you know.

 

[starzsgirl]

hold on. Ronnie wasn't there before S8, and as far as i recall, Greg told Nick that he knew about Grissom and Sara before everybody else (from Sara for that matter.) so the two people you are stressing that looked up to Sara, were probably never lied to.

Greg may have said he heard form Sara but there has never been any actual proof that he knew. He likes to feel he knows what is going on. Nor did I ever say that Ronnie and Greg weren't lied to. Ronnie was there after the fact, but still looked up to Sara as someone who knew what was going on. Learning the ropes is a hard thing, so fining a role model to look up to is a common occurance.

i mean, so she should go to grissom and say "oh i've got this new CSI 1 and she sees me as role model so i have to break up with you"? hm.

And where did this come from? Twisting peoples words around? Nowhere did I say that Sara being a role model would cause a break up, you seem to have made that up all on your own.

If they do or don't break up then that is how things are meant to be. But it won't be because Sara was classified as a role model it would be for a more significant reason.

I already answered this by stating the following:

"Atleast with rules people think before they do, thusly people know where their morals lie."

Personal choice on which rules to break, but there are some rules that if broken really make others wonder why they would risk it.

it that a yes? lol. cuz it's hard to say, you know.

It's the glass is half full answer.

 

[jafox]

I think my perspective on this has to do with the fact that I don't consider hiding their relationship as deceitful. These are 2 very private people who just wanted to keep their relationship private. They're very introverted and not like most people. I also don't recall any instance where their relationship affected their work. So I really don't see it as a trust issue. These characters are friends as well as coworkers and in the aftermath of the reveal, they all were supportive. To me this was all very much in character because over the years they have been there for each other. I think Sara had great chemistry with all the cast members, and that is why I miss her. I certainly don't think JF or WP meant for their relationship to take over the show; but it is a testament to their strong and memorable performances that make it seem so. I doubt JF will return to the show full time; I think she will return to wrap up her storyline with WP, but I do hope that she has some screen time with the rest of the cast in addition to Grissom. I hope for a happy 'ending' for Sara and Grissom as well as the other characters when they choose to leave.

 

[Adzix]

He likes to feel he knows what is going on.

so you're saying that he lied to Nick, right? Greg is a bit of a role model to Ronnie, so to follow your thinking, he should be ashamed of himself. lmao. (i'm joking, there is no need for you to get upset again.)

And where did this come from? Twisting peoples words around?

whose words?

Nowhere did I say that Sara being a role model would cause a break up, you seem to have made that up all on your own.

oh god. of course i made it up. i wanted to show you how absurd your Ronnie agument is.

It's the glass is half full answer.

so you just can't decide, i understand.

 

[starzsgirl]

I've never been "upset" about anything that you have said. I'm fully happy with my opinions and have no reason to get mad at words on a screen.

oh god. of course i made it up. i wanted to show you how absurd your Ronnie agument is.

You don't have to show me anything about my opnions/examples/arguments, I'm not backing down from them no matter how much you attempt to tell me I'm wrong.

Nor is my argument about Ronnie absurd. She looked up to Sara and if you don't like that you don't have to, but there is no reason to attack it.

It's the glass is half full answer.

so you just can't decide, i understand.

There you go assuming again. This was an offhanded answer.

I look at the world as I wish, meaning I'm not afraid to express myself, nor do I care who likes or dislikes my opnions.

But if someone wants to break any sort of rules then they should be able to accept the consequences and the effects that will happen across the board.

 

[Adzix]

You don't have to show me anything about my opnions/examples/arguments, I'm not backing down from them no matter how much you attempt to tell me I'm wrong.

and you don't have to. believe in what you want, but this is a discussion and you are not the only one that follows it. i can disprove your theories and show how in my opinion wrong you are how much i want.

She looked up to Sara and if you don't like that you don't have to, but there is no reason to attack it.

but she met her after everything was already revealed. so if she looked up to her after everything Sara's done, it means Ronnie believed Sara's behavior was acceptible. you are not going to choose a role model who you don't agree with.

There you go assuming again.

i'm not assuming anything. i try to make sense from some of your vague answers.

But if someone wants to break any sort of rules then they should be able to accept the consequences and the effects that will happen across the board.

sara and grissom did accept the consequences.

 

[starzsgirl]

but she met her after everything was already revealed. so if she looked up to her after everything Sara's done, it means Ronnie believed Sara's behavior was acceptible. you are not going to choose a role model who you don't agree with.

It's not known for sure if Ronnie heard anything about Grissom and Sara, she never said antying to acknowledge that. Ronnie didn't know Sara like the rest of the team did, she went from first impressions not stories being passed around the lab. She was quite nieve in some aspects and brillant in others, meaning she might have guess what might be happening or has no idea and went right over her head. And sicne she is gone there is no real way of knowing if Ronnie knew about the relationship.

i'm not assuming anything. i try to make sense from some of your vague answers.

On the contrary, they aren't vague just the way I answer the pointless attempts of people trying to get under my skin. Again a very hard thing to do.

 

[xfcanadian]

I think my perspective on this has to do with the fact that I don't consider hiding their relationship as deceitful. These are 2 very private people who just wanted to keep their relationship private.

Then why did grissom refuse to date her all these years?? Oh yeah, because he didn't want to ruin his career. He knew it was wrong, therefore deceitful. Not to mention in "the Accused is entitled", sara was hammered on the stand because of her relationship with grissom, who is her boss.

Even if it wasn't deliberately deceitful, they have to face the fact that it was. Sara is really quick to judge others, like when Catherine lied to the team with keppler (even though she didn't want to).

I also don't recall any instance where their relationship affected their work.

Grissom chooses who gets what cases. He had sara with him every frigging second. They shouldn't have even worked together if they are dating. See 'The accused is entitled'.

These characters are friends as well as coworkers and in the aftermath of the reveal, they all were supportive.

And that was unbelievably stupid, and only done to promote this storyline.

I certainly don't think JF or WP meant for their relationship to take over the show; but it is a testament to their strong and memorable performances that make it seem so.

It has nothing to do with their performances. It took over due to all this OMGGSRDRAMA!!!@111!! crap that is being dragged on and on and ON. I wasn't too thrilled with all the sara drama at the beginning of the season, now they are going to bring it back?? It is so chiche and stupid, a lot of people hate it. Not to mention the entire focus of the show is completely gone, sara's character is down right pathetic now, and grissom's character has been demoralized and destroyed. Don't get me started on them cutting out almost all of the interaction both sara and grissom had with the rest of the team.

I hope for a happy 'ending' for Sara and Grissom as well as the other characters when they choose to leave.

gag me with a broomstick. This isn't grays anatomy. There shouldn't be a riding off in the sunset thing on CSI. What a crappy send off for Grissom. Way to destroy a great character.


About the ethics of it....it isn't the right or wrong issue that bugs me. It is the fact that they completely ignored what has already been established on the show that is annoying.

-there were several mentions by both Nick and Catherine that they had a problem with co-workers dating. This was completely dropped, and they suddenly turned supportive. BAD CONTINUITY.

-Nick is especially big on honesty. They had him look a big worried for one scene, then dropped it. More bad continuity.

-It has already been established that Grissom is an extremely ethical person. Also that he is very logical and can evaluate his own and others actions from a non-biased and unemotional viewpoint. That aspect of his character has been thrown out. Not to mention, he has already lectured other characters about ethics. The writers seemed to have ignored all this character development, and just slapped in the generic cheese romance storyline that you see on every frigging network show that exists. So much for original characters!

I don't mind so much that he made the mistake in the first place, but it wasn't even addressed that he is a huge hypocrite for this. Catherine should have reamed him out. And not to mention Nick, who Grissom is often harsh on for wanting to view cases in an emotional way which might compromise some ethics. I have lost all respect for Grissom, what a frigging hypocrite.

-Ecklie, normally a hard ass with Grissom was unusually and uncharacteristically forgiving and soft about the whole thing. And even when he was being understanding about the situation, Grissom shot back with attitude like he didn't do anything wrong! Miami had the right idea, having Rick come in and made it very clear that no dating is allowed between co-workers.

And based on the fact that there was an inquiry (which of course sara the female got blamed), you can't really say that it was ethical, since it is clearly established that it wasn't. But whether it is right or wrong, can be debated.