Horatio & Yelina #6: A Sense of Belonging - So Say We All!

[Kit4na]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

Hrockz said:
We know that Luce and we're hoping too.

We sure are!

Hrockz said:
And thanks Tati for being such an avid supporter of my fics. Much appreciated.

Hehe no worries, I love reading them it's awesome! ( I love writing them too but i've hit a writers block and not only on H/Y front)

 

[TallyHo]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

Lucy said:
Just posting quickly to say that there's no confirmation as yet that SM will be in the S6 opener. I was just saying that I hope she is! I'm sorry if I have misled anyone.

No worries, Luce. My bad. However, I will take well intentioned wishful thinking. Well, SM was in S5 opener. Hopefully tptb will keep this trend afloat.

 

[Lucy]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

Hopefully tptb will keep this trend afloat.

Very much so. Even if we're getting little on the inspiration front, it's good to know that tptb still keep Yelina in their thoughts and evidentally still recognize and acknowledge the H/Y potential.

H obviously has got great potential for Dad material as we've seen with his rare fleeting interactions with RJ and Maddy BUT Horatio is a long standing emotional wreck so he needs to get his self sorted out post-haste before he can even think about fatherhood, single or otherwise.

Absolutely. He really does need to sort himself out emotionally. I am hoping that what happens in the Season finale will lead to some form of realization for him.

Coupled with therapy, Horatio should probably start out with a goldfish and then start slowly graduating to larger lifeforms.

Lol! If we hear that a child is indeed on the horizon, I may have to use that in my signature. Inspired!

Well said, MD. I am so tired of this continued portrayal by tptb of H's self-flaggelation and Job-like impression.

Yes, I meant to comment on MD's post too. The past that they invented for Horatio in Season 4 became way too dark and really quite unneccesary in the whole scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. I always felt that the fact that he lost his parents when he was young coupled with the whole Raymond storyarc was enough in terms of Horatio's woes. It just became too much and way too angsty to be convincing. Many fans stopped feeling sympathetic because it was so contrived. The writers even admitted that things were becoming too dark and decided to leave the NY storyline where it was.

 

[lieueitak]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

The past that they invented for Horatio in Season 4 became way too dark and really quite unneccesary in the whole scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. I always felt that the fact that he lost his parents when he was young coupled with the whole Raymond storyarc was enough in terms of Horatio's woes. It just became too much and way too angsty to be convincing. Many fans stopped feeling sympathetic because it was so contrived.

For me, the problem is not the concept itself, but rather the execution. From the beginning of the show, Horatio's biography included the facts about his mother being murdered and how Horatio hunted down her killer. At some point during the show's running, it would have made absolute sense to follow through on that more.

I think the problem (with all the personal drama) is that the writers work so hard to force revelations and situations and then almost immediately drop it. They didn't take their time with the whole Horatio backstory. Instead of what they did, they could have easily started off the season with Horatio in the confessional in the same manner, and then through out the season, rather than force their hand early, show Stetler sniffing around for what was going on. Maybe sometime at the end of the season, we see Stetler finding what he needs and telling Horatio that he knows the redhead's "secret."

Perhaps the season 5 premiere could have been Horatio's trial and (just to make it H/Y enough for everyone) Yelina shows up to support him while somewhere, somehow Ray Sr. and Marisol mysteriously combust.

The timeline I just presented isn't perfect, no, but I think it's better than the three episodes where that stuff is crammed down everyone's throat and then never brought up again. The same thing goes for Eric being shot and Ryan's gambling problem. I don't mind things getting dark on the show or even different. What I cannot stand are writers who aren't willing to follow through on something they've started -- as if anyone should be surprised that the NY storyline turned out dark.

And what really drives me crazy is that the same writers give him this storyline, but it never affects his work. No matter what Horatio does, he's still perfect at the end of the day these past few seasons. And what good is a complex background if you're going to leave them in cookie cutter land? Personally, I think you could make Horatio a more rounded character simply by allowing him to not ALWAYS get it right.

But back to H/Y, I would love to see Yelina in season 6. The shows improve ten fold, easily, when she's around.

 

[RedHot]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

lieueitak said:

And what really drives me crazy is that the same writers give him this storyline, but it never affects his work. No matter what Horatio does, he's still perfect at the end of the day these past few seasons. And what good is a complex background if you're going to leave them in cookie cutter land? Personally, I think you could make Horatio a more rounded character simply by allowing him to not ALWAYS get it right.

I couldn't agree more with you. Why make them perfect. In one epi you can clearly hear that Caruso was sick, like he had the cold or an allergy, but through out the epi they didn't mention anything, why? Is it so difficult for Frank to say "hey, are you sick?".

Imaging what is in the head of someone that her mother was murder, that he killed his dad, his brother took someone he loved and die in an horrible way. Come on, this guy should be like crazy by now.

Writers should lower down to this earth, or go and write in HEROES.

 

[lieueitak]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

In one epi you can clearly hear that Caruso was sick, like he had the cold or an allergy, but through out the epi they didn't mention anything, why? Is it so difficult for Frank to say "hey, are you sick?".

Well, episodes are written months in advance of the actual shooting. This gives them time to fully conceive the idea, write it, and write any revisions necessary (because something didn't fit a character or because the network thought something was too racy, etc). Because of this, the writers aren't likely to incorporate a line like that (unless one of the characters being sick has a purpose).

Of course, I've heard that DC's problem is allergies, which given the nature of the illness, occur under specific conditions. And so, they could take the gamble and write it in beforehand. Or write it in onset because the screenwriter is usually on hand during shooting to fix lines for a variety of reasons - actors don't like the line, actors can't get the line right, etc. So in the end, if they really wanted to, they could add a line in, but it's such a throw away line. In other words, it's not of any real use to mention that he's sick unless the storyline is about Horatio being sick and that somehow affects his ability to work.

Of course, Horatio getting ill does have some advantages. Yelina in a nurse's outfit, anyone?

 

[SwanSwan_H]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

The past that they invented for Horatio in Season 4 became way too dark and really quite unneccesary in the whole scheme of things as far as I'm concerned. I always felt that the fact that he lost his parents when he was young coupled with the whole Raymond storyarc was enough in terms of Horatio's woes. It just became too much and way too angsty to be convincing. Many fans stopped feeling sympathetic because it was so contrived.

I was certainly one of those fans. I too thought the writers cranked up Horatio's backstory angst too much, particularly the parts concerning the circumstances of his parents' deaths and his abusive father. Unnecessary for me too. His mother could still have died at the hands of criminals, and this in turn would have given H the drive to seek justice at every turn. The rest was overkill.

I feel the need to post Lucy's tale of Horatio's woes!

- His father killed his mother, H in turn killed his father.
- H leaves NY for Miami, due to some complications over his cop partner (I kind of switched off to this part of his story!)
- H's cop brother fakes his death and works undercover for 4 years, leaving H, his wife Yelina and son Ray Jnr believing he was dead.
- H's brother had an affair with fellow 'tweaker' Suzie and she had his child, which H had to keep a secret from Yelina to save her being hurt, thus jeopardizing a possible future with Yelina, who he has secretly loved for goodness knows how long.
- Said child Madison, then develops leukaemia and H is forced to reveal the truth to Yelina in order to find a bone marrow doner to save her life.
- Brother Ray then reappears, a confirmed dirty cop (who was forced 4 yrs ago to make a deal with the Feds or face prosecution - he chose the former), alive and well, and for the sake of his safety, H arranges for his 'family' to leave for Brazil. Once again, he loses the woman he loves and his family.
- H then experiences huge guilt pangs over killing his father. His confessional is interrupted by the Male Noche gang who for a reason unknown, want him dead.
- We discover that H's Father was abusive.
- He meets Eric's sister Marisol, who has cancer (even though at all times, she looked stunning!) and H decides to take care of her to the point of marriage.
- Marisol then gets killed by the Male Noche gang and H goes on a revenge spree to Rio. H's brother Ray dies (for real this time) in H's arms.
- The lab seems to be permanently under investigation and a crooked Judge is now on H's case, vowing all sorts of unpleasant consequences for our hero.

Spoiler: Presumably to be continued with....

H's near death experience in the S5 finale.

I also hope that this finale experience will lead to H facing up to things, thus *hopefully* freeing him of his shackles.

 

[lieueitak]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

I too thought the writers cranked up Horatio's backstory angst too much, particularly the parts concerning the circumstances of his parents' deaths and his abusive father. Unnecessary for me too. His mother could still have died at the hands of criminals, and this in turn would have given H the drive to seek justice at every turn. The rest was overkill.

I feel the need to post Lucy's tale of Horatio's woes!

But as Horatio is a character on a TV show, naturally, he's gonna go through a lot of drama. There's nothing to be done about that. It's just the manner in which all the conflicts are presented.

And some of those weren't done in a rushed or horrible manner. Particularly the Suzie/Madison arc. That took place over multiple seasons and was very well done, in my opinion. The leukemia was introduced to force Horatio's hand, sure, but at the same time, given both Suzie's AND Ray Senior's drug use, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that Madison would develop such an illness. Just a brief google search brought up a couple of case studies that linked maternal drug use to the risk of leukemia.

Statistics also say that domestic violence is a huge problem in this country still - and I can only guess that those numbers were higher back when Horatio was a child because the women's movement had barely started and children were viewed as little more than property. I don't think it's unnecessary or too much to dramatize an unfortunate reality for so many in this country. I just wish that the writers had chosen to take the time to make these revelations and had taken the time to develop them, rather than just throw it out there (only to shove it back into the closet two episodes later).

If the show ever does decide to make Horatio and Yelina a couple, it'll be interesting to see how (if at all) this will affect their relationship and dynamic.

 

[TallyHo]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

Wow, great list that, Luce. Like Letterman's Top 10. Swanny was that list documented in this thread?

Fact is that Horatio as a character en toto has not evolved in any significant way since S3. He is still waiitng to emerge from the primordial ooze that is his emotional self. It is a storytelling low point and lack of imaginative approach to H as a character to have him locked in this vicious boring cycle of "poor me, poor me" as differing faces of woe are re-invented for the man. It's not believable and worst yet it's pathetic. I like Horatio muchly but his continued martyrdom is becoming cloying and ridiculous.

Perhaps the writers really don't know how to write Horatio in any other context since they've been doing this one trick pony writing "style" for so long. I'm fairly certain DC does have another range of acting abilities other than sad sack version 5.0 so it can't be DC at fault.

For crikey's sake, allow Horatio to grow up, move forward and be a man. Yes, we've seen him cut and bleed like the rest of humanity so now let us see him heal.

 

[CSIFray]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

Spoiler: Finale

So, watching TVguide channel (I say that way to much for it to be healthy) and they were talking about the season finales and I heard something about that H's plane is going down... Good chance to throw Yelina in...

 

[EyeHeartH]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

Spoiler: Wait a sec...

Wasn't the finale changed to have a guy with too much testosterone nearly kill H? Or did they re-incorporate the plane crash into this scenario? Either way, I agree CSIFray, this will be a good time for Yelina to re-appear.

I'm such a nerd...I took off work on Monday just so that I can watch the finale :lol:

 

[Pusher]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

RedHot said:
In one epi you can clearly hear that Caruso was sick, like he had the cold or an allergy, but through out the epi they didn't mention anything, why? Is it so difficult for Frank to say "hey, are you sick?".

lieueitak said:
Well, episodes are written months in advance of the actual shooting. This gives them time to fully conceive the idea, write it, and write any revisions necessary. Because of this, the writers aren't likely to incorporate a line like that .
In other words, it's not of any real use to mention that he's sick unless the storyline is about Horatio being sick and that somehow affects his ability to work.

really ?! tptb need months to write the worse scripts ever - wow i didn`t know that this is so difficult work - poor them :lol:

also why they can`t bring in this tv show one spontaneous quote (or action) that come as idea till they shoot/film the epi ?! this won`t kill them, right ?! even the things can become ways more better if the actors do care and understand theirs characters. (no such luck in Miami). to my mind come one scene from BSG when Admiral Adama kiss Ma'am President after one chat about her cancer. wow this was so sweet moment - in meaning some times the words is not enough and one simple action make so much more for the tv show audience to see how strong is some friendship. after this i understand that this 'kiss' actually was Edward Olmos idea and it`s come when they shoot the last scene from this epi.... good for the actor and good for us...so my point was yes i want and think that in Miami must have spontaneous things/ideas like this... hope u guys catch up my thought

SwanSwan said:
I too thought the writers cranked up Horatio's backstory angst too much, particularly the parts concerning the circumstances of his parents' deaths and his abusive father. Unnecessary for me too. His mother could still have died at the hands of criminals, and this in turn would have given H the drive to seek justice at every turn. The rest was overkill.

lieueitak said:
But as Horatio is a character on a TV show, naturally, he's gonna go through a lot of drama.

don`t know why but after S4 i have feeling that tptb try to convince me that someone can be good person (and have reason to protect the rest) only if he/she have difficult childhood. my parents never hit me... so is this mean that i`m 'bad'
and yep i 100 % agree that we have to much H angst S 4-5 and i`m so sick and tired of this... blah...H use to be hero (real, human S 1-3) but now is only like character from cartoon network. this don`t bring me in Miami, but only make me search for more good and quality tv shows out there...
this what take my attention in Miami forum is that through 1-2 months in 'i have a questin' thread come new posters and ask for what is all about this H 'new' NY past... in meaning tptb just screws up this 'dark' H background and a lot peoples feel a lot confused . i`m glad that they drop it after two epis, but for my regret noone from the miami team don`t want to admit this mistake and to try to fix the mess... H need to change, only after this i`ll hope for Yelina return in S6...

btw i love this Lucy's tale of Horatio's woes long time ago she write it in HC/DC thread and even i one time have quote this great part of her post

 

[Lunalove]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

lieueitak said:
Of course, Horatio getting ill does have some advantages. Yelina in a nurse's outfit, anyone?

Getting very naughty thoughts here! :devil:

 

[lieueitak]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

tptb need months to write the worse scripts ever - wow i didn`t know that this is so difficult work - poor them

It's not exactly months to write the script. Let's say it's January. Someone might start writing a script for an episode to air a few months later. You get very little time to sit down and actually write the script. The block of time is needed for revisions and writing, yes, but it's mainly for production. Think about it: every character has to be cast; outside locations have to be secured, permits obtained, etc. That will take a little bit of time.

also why they can`t bring in this tv show one spontaneous quote (or action) that come as idea till they shoot/film the epi ?! this won`t kill them, right ?! even the things can become ways more better if the actors do care and understand theirs characters. (no such luck in Miami)

Those things DO happen at times. Sometimes, you'll have an actor who simply cannot get a line right and so it has to be rewritten. Other times, a location or some other aspect of production falls through, and so the episode has to have a fast rewrite in order to fix the problem. And yes, sometimes, actors will improv or want to change part of the script. That has happened on Miami; in season 2, "Witness to Murder," DC didn't like the opening one liner so it was changed.

So last minute changes and additions definitely happen, but there should be a pressing reason to do so. I mean... if a character gives an unwritten kiss to another character, then okay. That's a sweet moment, and if it's appropriate to the situation, then yay. But the example of Frank asking Horatio if he's sick? That doesn't seem so necessary to me.

but after S4 i have feeling that tptb try to convince me that someone can be good person (and have reason to protect the rest) only if he/she have difficult childhood. my parents never hit me... so is this mean that i`m 'bad'

Really? I don't take it that way because while Horatio and Calleigh didn't have the best of childhoods, it doesn't seem like Eric, Frank, Ryan, or Speed had horrible childhoods (just based on what we know). Besides, even if Horatio is Mr. Martyr, look at the other child who grew up in the same home. Ray Senior grew up in the same environment, and well... he's a jerk! :lol:

Getting very naughty thoughts here!

 

[Pusher]

Re: Horatio & Yelina #6 - A Sense of Belonging - So Say We A

^ nope, i wasn`t talk about this. my point was little different, but suppose we have some kind of miss understanding. my bad - english in not my first language. anyway....

i understand and know the scripts writing and shooting/filming process (how it`s work on tv show). but sill can`t got it why tptb keep scream out aloud that Miami is N. 1 tv show on the earth. why Ann D. and DC still try to convince us that Aerosol was so sweet and touching part of H life. and one more why, why DC can`t stop repeat how gret and deep is H like character/hero - that everybody love i`m wonder doesn`t anybody see that there is something wrong with Miami this days ?! are we stupid or someone try to make us look this way. when of some charatcer that u love/respect (time ago) stay only his trade-mark (in this case H - sunglasses, pose and one liner) at some moment u becom only irritate and pissed off. why after DC can change some parts of Miami epi, now can`t try to make them better. are he so blindness from all of this glory?! when i read Adam R. interview two months ago - he openly and honestly said things that he like or don`t like in his charatcer development. i admire this a lot. but when the things come to H charatcer i don`t see any trace of some development. he is stick on his pity lonely island too long time. when i wacth tv show i want to see that this guy is real, moving, funny, that he go forward... (like dr. House this days), then i can stay turned on till the next epi come... but with this Super H awwww only waste of time... i still get got it how Ann D. can write some so good epi like WtM, BB, HA and now to act like she don`t know her charatcers at all. why can`t DC defend Yelina retur, the same way like he defend Aerosol nightmare ... coz of this reasons i`m disappoint from Miami, Horatio, Ann D. and DC... and my previous post was base on this thoughts. for me miami team have to go out of the shell where are they (to stop hide head in the sand ) and take a look around to see what want or don`t like the fans. to try understand why others tv shows like BGS, House M.D. etc. have so big progress and audience . not in last place we are the one who make this show popular, rigth ?!