Grade 'Oedipus Hex'

The episode ws okay, but i know the writers are capble of better
Lindsey is starting to annoy me :(
And What was Danny supposed to do? (of course it would have been funny to see danny slap her back, although Mac probably
would not be happpy about it)
It looked like he was just trying to stay professional
The woman did just lose her daughter and he trying to get her to understand her daughter a little better.
 
Wow... everyone's coming down quite strongly on Lindsey for her behaviour in this episode.

And everyone's right. Lindsey's not allowed to be afraid of anything, and she's certainly not allowed to have moments that affect her deeply and personally in ways that we're not aware of yet. Because, really, heaven forbid that she be vulnerable at any point, or human. If she were, that would just make her a bitch, now wouldn't it?

I fully support the scene where Lindsey freaks out at Danny. I can definately relate to it (applied to my own life, of course). God knows "suck it up and stop angsting" has never, EVER, been the solution to any of my problems. And I'm sure most of you agree. Kudos to Danny in this ep, for doing as Lindsey asked, even though he didn't know why - it enabled Lindsey to later on have the courage to face the girl's mother herself.

Where exactly are the complaints about, say, Al, who cried when she learned that her lover really did love her, and then walked out of the building all bad-ass with her posse, as if nothing happened and she just had another kick-ass day being an SG? She was written in the show, she deserves the same scrutiny and judgement of character.
 
Arkee said:
Wow... everyone's coming down quite strongly on Lindsey for her behaviour in this episode.

And everyone's right. Lindsey's not allowed to be afraid of anything, and she's certainly not allowed to have moments that affect her deeply and personally in ways that we're not aware of yet. Because, really, heaven forbid that she be vulnerable at any point, or human. If she were, that would just make her a bitch, now wouldn't it?

I fully support the scene where Lindsey freaks out at Danny. I can definately relate to it (applied to my own life, of course). God knows "suck it up and stop angsting" has never, EVER, been the solution to any of my problems. And I'm sure most of you agree. Kudos to Danny in this ep, for doing as Lindsey asked, even though he didn't know why - it enabled Lindsey to later on have the courage to face the girl's mother herself.

Where exactly are the complaints about, say, Al, who cried when she learned that her lover really did love her, and then walked out of the building all bad-ass with her posse, as if nothing happened and she just had another kick-ass day being an SG? She was written in the show, she deserves the same scrutiny and judgement of character.
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If I recall your earlier post correctly, the Suicide Girls "annoyed" you "to no end." Well, they were around for a single episode, imagine if you were annoyed by Lindsay's behaviour that is something from which there is no escape week in and week out, unless like me you only watch an episode every other week or so.

You ask us to consider Lindsay's background and past to explain away her egregious behaviour, however you offer no similar courtesy to your slap dash judgment of the Suicide Girls. Perhaps, only Lindsay is owed such courtesy, while everyone else can take on the wrath of viewers. Sometimes, I feel that Lindsay's deification is imminent. You should take the advice you sarcastically doled out to others, by applying some of that scrutiny to Lindsay’s character, after all what is fair is fair. Yes?

I’m sure everyone can relate to having a meltdown, it is a symptom of being human, it doesn’t mean that in that moment the behaviour was not obnoxious, annoying, or childish, because let’s face it most meltdowns are all those things. If this were Lindsay’s first foray into obnoxious or petulant behaviour then maybe everyone could have overlooked it, but it is not the first time, I however, certainly hope it will be the last.


Not to mention if Danny’s acquiescence, I mean support, in the throes of Lindsay’s tantrum gave her the courage to later face the distraught mother, perhaps Al’s, what was it you called them, posse, perhaps her posse gave her the courage to walk out of the building and face another day. I don’t believe either scenario, Lindsay’s sucking it up at the end was a simple ploy by the writers in an attempt to display character or to effectively mute her earlier silly display and Al’s “bad-ass” walk away with her posse was less about Al and more about Danny, which is why the home viewer was given Danny’s perspective. We saw what Danny saw and in that moment, as I see it, we were allowed to form opinions about what he could have been thinking.
 
Edit: I was typing this while JDonne was posting, so it may be unnecessary. :p

Actually, Arkee, I'm wondering if you even bothered to read all the comments that have been left in here or if you are just selectively reading. If you had read other comments, you would have seen more than one person comment on Al's behavior, along with various other characters. However, Lindsay is a main character on the show, not a one-time guest star, so I would expect fans to concern themselves more with how Lindsay acts than Al.

Nobody has suggested that Lindsay shouldn't be human or vulnerable. Fans want her to be a dynamic character with in-depth development, but seeing her freak out or act in a way that seems strange or ridiculous time and time again without any indication of why isn't exactly going to endear her character to fans. I think people who have expressed problems with Lindsay in this episode (and/or others) have done a good job of explaining why they felt the way they did. If you can relate to Lindsay, good for you, and if you like her, all the better, but don't expect everyone to feel that way.

At one point or another, every character is going to come under criticism in this thread or others, because not everybody watches the show in the same way, and not everybody feels the same about all of the characters or storylines. Variety is the spice of life, after all, and this is just a television show.
 
Rereading my post, and the two responses to it, I do see and understand where I went wrong in trying to voice my frustration.

I am frustrated. And I did start typing before rethinking what I had originally meant to say. None of that came out, except the obvious frustration - not exactly an example of diplomacy, I know.

I was rather quick and absent-minded about the Al example, especially after calling the whole lot of the SGs annoying - it was the first thing that popped into my mind, but I hadn't meant it to seem as if I were berating the entire world for not being up in arms about it, while I was the lone hero calling for justice. Which it unfortunately did. (I still think there was something off about the way the girls all walked out of the building, something that was more about style than meaning, when I personally feel that too much episode focussed on the former - another debate altogether. Maybe the scene really was supposed to be all about Danny.)

I do find that the fact that this is not the first time Lindsey freaked out about something to be telling about her character. I really do want to believe that the writers are trying very hard to build up her character, more specifically her dark side, and the way they're rapidly (and possibly recklessly) going about it doesn't bother me particularly, because I still enjoy the moments where Lindsey is shown to be more than that dark side. For some people, the freak-out is a blemish that makes for a discontinuity in character, or perhaps shows what they believe to be her true character. I suppose that I can't see it that way.

I still see Danny giving in to Lindsey as being a way of showing not that she could only be calmed down by that method, but that he doesn't want to see her upset. Of course, professionally, that was not the best solution - I have the sense that Danny could have talked her into doing it herself, or just left saying "Hell no, you have to take care of it yourself". I think Danny was well aware of what he was doing, and he did it for her as a sort of protective gesture, without knowing exactly what he's protecting her from. At the end of the episode, I think Lindsey's had the time to prepare herself to meet the mother with a calm face and sincere sympathy - time that might not have been available had Danny not taken the responsibility to meet the mother earlier in the episode. To me, she wasn't throwing a tantrum so much as showing that she wasn't ready, and her desperation came out as another emotion entirely.

I understand that this all rides on one factor - whatever it is that's been planned as Lindsey's backstory. If it's not equal to the deviating behaviour, then I'll concede to one of two things: either the writing quality has gone down, or I'm defending a character that isn't enjoyable in the least. I'll make that decision when the time comes. For the time being, I'll resist "the deification of Lindsey", and I'll try making coherent and justified arguments. I'm not entirely sure that I've written something understandable in this post, but I hope that I've written something at least a little more bearable than what I wrote in my previous post.
 
Very interesting points by everyone, on both sides of the discussion. I guess I'm somewhat in the middle on a couple of the points.

I saw Lindsay's behavior when faced with the thought of dealing with a grieving mother as irresponsible, and somewhat petulant and infantile, particularly the "Give the crappy job to Lindsay!" comment. But I felt she did redeem herself somewhat by purposely going to see the mother the second time around. Partly because she stood outside the window the first time after sending Danny in, and watched Danny get a face-slap for his good efforts, and she might have felt a twinge of guilt. I'd like to think that she also went in the second time around because she had time to think about what she acted and sounded like earlier, and realized she was being childish and weak, and had no business running away from a responsibility on her job, no matter what unpleasantries are in her background. Hell, Mac lost his wife in one of the most horrible events in recent history, but he doesn't shy away from dealing with other husbands who lose their wives because of it, I would wager.

Re: Al's attitude when walking out at the end, someone mentioned earlier that she was smiling/laughing? as she walked out as though nothing were wrong. I didn't see her smile or laugh, she looked rather stoic (IMO), her head held high & proud, almost stubborn, like she was ready to take on another day no matter what - especially in the company of her good friends. Doesn't mean she didn't go home and crumple into a heap and cry in private, but I didn't get a feeling of her brushing Omen's death off in that last scene at all. I do like the idea though, of the scene actually being from Danny's perspective. Hadn't thought of that before, but it makes sense. The viewer "saw" what he saw, through his viewpoint. And what he saw was a group of strong, sexy women who were probably used to facing some adversity, and relished the thought of taking on whatever life could throw at them.
 
(Good points, MBGrissom, you were posting while I was typing. :lol:)

Ah, I see where you're coming from, Arkee. ;)

I think in some ways Danny picks up on Lindsay's issues and relates them to Aiden. Aiden was someone that he knew for a long time, and then she sort of got worn down and ended up in a place that she couldn't return from, which ended up leading to her death. So I could see Danny feeling the guilt of not being able to help Aiden and, seeing that Lindsay is having problems, worrying that another friend might end up going down a path that wouldn't end well. Purely speculation, but I like to think that Lindsay is friends with the whole team even if I don't think her relationship with Danny is romantic. ;) That would be a preferable interpretation for me, rather than taking the 'oh he's so in love and so he'll shield her from the world' thing. I'm not saying you implied that interpretation, I'm just pointing it out. ;)

I can understand that she'd do something that is unprofessional sometimes, which shows that it's obviously something that affects her very badly to cause her to do so. However, as much as I understand the meaning behind it and it leading to her deep, dark secret *cue horror music*, before they actually reveal her secret and explain something about her character, it's just annoying and strange. *shrug* I don't feel like they've ever established anything concrete for her character, especially in light of all of the inconsistencies last season, and so far this season I'm not really seeing a definite direction for her. True, we're not very far into the season, but they really need to give her something. I don't like watching a show and just not understanding or connecting with a character. When Lindsay first came to NY, she had a lot of potential, despite the cliches that they chose for her even then. Knowing her secret later on might help earlier events make sense, but when a person is watching a show, do they really want to go 'in a few months, I'll understand this behavior?'

As for Danny's 'growth' and 'maturity' that several people have mentioned in here, I can understand that. I can understand Danny becoming a different, potentially better, person. But I just don't comprehend what the writers have actually done. Sometimes his character is the same as he always was, but when we're meant to see him being more 'mature' as people explain, all I see is a muffled version of the character. I don't feel like he's changed, just that in certain situations, he's not his usual self.

As for the slapping scene, I don't think there was a better way he could have handled it. Carmine did a good job of showing, in a subtle way, that he didn't like it, but as has been mentioned, Danny is very understanding and sympathetic toward the families of victims. I've noticed several times that he was very sympathetic to the parents who lost their children. I've always been curious about why that is. I mean, he always seems to take an interest in the welfare of children. *remembers the way he told the father off in "Hush" during season 1*

I still haven't rewatched this episode, I need to do that tomorrow. :p
 
I was wondering if Lindsay didn't want to talk to the victim's mother because she had problems with her mother or because she was gonna be a mother.
I guess the second one,because having problems with your mother is not a good reason for not dating Danny,well,there aren't any good reasons for not dating Danny. :devil:
 
Hormiga said:
I was wondering if Lindsay didn't want to talk to the victim's mother because she had problems with her mother or because she was gonna be a mother.
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I'm guessing neither. What she pretty much said was that she could give bad news to fathers all day long, but can't break the news to a mother. I'm thinking her 'deep, dark secret', note the sarcasm of me not caring what it is, has something to do with her father.
 
OK..HERE GOES


this eps. was ok. to me. it was like 'hung out to dry' and it wasnt as bad as 'people with money.' it was sorta stuck in between!

loved the d/l moments, danny with the bike, and how could you all forget ...THAT MOODY GUY TOTALLY KICKED FLACK..IN THE CHEST!!!. yeah i bet your all kicking yourselves now. and that stupid distraught mother slapped Danny. uhh distraught mothers.

Mac and stellas case..i couldve done with out, with in the 1st 10 minutes or so..i stopped caring.. i know..im heartless like that. but its true!!

Didnt stella wear a shirt like that once in first season. wasnt it orange? Yeah hey at least it aint her boobs. ya know.

Whats wrong with Lindsay. thats one of the reasons i dont like some characters on csi..its becasuse they are crazy..note to TPTB..DO NOT TURN LINDSAY CRAZY..WE HAVE CRAZY EMOTION DANNY TO DO THAT!!!!

loved the d/l ..the line. 'i look like im from that movie saw.' ive seen that movie..i laughed...alot.

over all i would give this eps. maybe a high C...it didnt do much on the rictor scale for me. Sorry everyone..i was only watchin for d/l action and i got it. The cases were a tooooooo boring..and it dragged on forever.

Next week i hope is better
 
I give this episode a B- because:

1. The case handled by Danny, Lindsay and Hawkes are ok and the writers could have done better.
2. The case handled by Mac, Stella and Flack are too boring for words.
3. Flack's paisley tie. I know it's trivial but I really hated it. Oh, and Stella's blouse/shirt, arrgh.

saving grace:
1. Flack wearing a yellow t-shirt when he was watching the basketball game with the YMCA kids. He is so freaking hot!
2. Danny's lines. Amazingly funny and great delivery by Carmine! My favorite would be: "Is that your natural hair color?"
3. Linsay being petty/immature. It's nice to see that these guys are regular workers also who have complaints about their jobs. Anna gave a good performance in being vulnerable in situations that I never thought possible, which, maybe related to whatever her secret is. It's nice to see her tough during S03 Ep2 Not What It Looks Like and then surprisingly rattled just by facing a distraught mother. It makes me love her more, since she IS the reason why I started watching CSI NY especially,
3. When she is being "paired off" to Danny. So, all their ineteractions are great and I hope they bring back their banters in Season 2. I missed them. When this 2 started "flirting," the ratings here in my country have gone up!

I wish:
1. The writers would give Flack a chance to deveop his character therefore more screen time.
2.The writers would have Danny and Lindsay be together already. I don't think it is soapish. It is natural for some people to be attracted to co-workers, why not? D and L have GREAT chemistry, that's why me and my friends and co-workers painfully wait to watch the next episode.
3.ANd of course, the writers will do more cases that are not rushed and a little bit more subsantial like Hung Out To Dry, that's one of my favorite NY episode so far, based on the case.

And to all the members:
1. Hello!!! Since I am a newbie and this is my first post.
2. Is there some "argument" going on between the Lindsay haters and shippers? Just by reading the posts, I feel like there's some negativity going on. Although, I love Lindsay, I'm not taking any sides and I respect each and everyone's opinion. Again, maybe it's just me and this is trivial so, ignore this if you can.
3. I hope that everyone would continue to support all the CSI shows because, good ones are dwindling out there. Sadly, there are not too many good shows to watch anymore and I am glad the CSI shows are still up there!
 
CSI_Chic said:
The ending were the Suicide Girls were walking away, you can see Danny and his body languge of like WTF did i just do
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I thought it was more Carmine thinking, "holy shit, I can't believe this crap made it past the first draft."

My favorite part of the episode was:

Suicide Girl: We're not like those girls you see on Baywatch!
*cue final scene of them walking in slow motion towards the camera with their boobs and asses hanging out.*

Oh, that's not like Baywatch at all.
 
midnight_tiptoes said:
I thought it was more Carmine thinking, "holy shit, I can't believe this crap made it past the first draft."
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Thank God I'm not the only one. :lol: He didn't look horny or anything like that at all. It was like, "WTF? I gotta do another oh-woe-is-Danny-because-he's-not-getting-any? Blah."
 
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