Grade 'No Good Deed'

[Curiosity]

PA said:
As for kids, that has not been explored on the show. Couples don't have children for a lot of reasons and there's nothing in canon to suggest why Mac and Claire never had any.

That is one thing I'm curious about. I don't exactly remember how Mac seemed (somber? regretful?) when he told Reed that he and Claire never had children. But I've wondered if they didn't have children because of fertility issues, because one or both or them didn't want kids, or because they had decided to wait and ran out of time.

I guess it does have a bearing on how the writers see Mac's future (as far as family and relationships) unfolding. IIRC, Mac's supposed to be in his mid-40's, so it wouldn't be unrealistic for him to still have children of his own or even adopt younger children at some point.

Given the developments in this episode, however, it has crossed my mind that perhaps the writers are setting up another older, surrogate child for Mac in Ella, similar to his surrogate son Reed. Maybe they see him as already being past the stage of diapers and want to see him dealing with other types of "family" issues.

Guess we'll have to see how all the family and relationship stuff plays out. They're only about halfway through the show (assuming it can make it to 9 or 10 seasons), and with that amount of time, I sort of expect to see changes to the cast as well as key relationships before we get to the end.

 

[Lori K.]

Peyton had every right to get upset when the man she was dating didn't want anyone to know and called her by his dead wife's name. Also, just because he called her "Claire" during an argument doesn't mean they had a bad marriage. Couples have arguments. It's a part of being in a relationship. The fact that they talked about it and Mac apologized in the end makes me stand by my statement that Peyton understood Mac.

The pulling of the hand away from his cheek,calling her Claire, would suggest she understood alright,she understood Mac was NOT ready to "GO CANON" as you refer to the start of relationships. Which means not only she did NOT know how very private of a man he was she didnt care And as for Mac apolgizing... he was a lookin for a little more a dat stuff ifin you know what I mean:shifty: .

and she pushed him a little

A LITTLE?! THATS GREAT!!!
Sounds like you approved of the pairing of Mac and Peyton.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

RE: Ship debate in grading threads

Obviously ship discussions can be, and often are, on topic in a grading thread, like when it pertains to something that actually happened in an episode, or discussing scenes between your favourite, or not so favourite, ships. But extended ship debates like this one are not on topic, and would be better discussed elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but where are we supposed to discuss it? We can't debate ships in the shipper threads so shippers can have a positive atmosphere to talk about their ship, and if we start to debate them in the character/actor threads people get bent out of shape about that. I know there are "The Great Ship Debate" threads in Shipper Central, but I don't go specifically looking to debate ships. I bring it up if I see a natural opening in the conversation and I have something to respond with. Where can we have an extended discussion?

 

[jolein]

A LITTLE?! THATS GREAT!!!
Sounds like you approved of the pairing of Mac and Peyton.

There are actually more people who approve and like Mac and Peyton together.
That you don`t like it is your freedom but that is no excuse to attack someone who does like them.
Also,caplocks is yelling and inpolite.

Moving on,I have watched this episode again with more a wide awake eye.
I really hope against hope that they follow up on the connection Adam has with that boy.
Maybe he can feel guilty or something because of the conviction.

 

[MakeTracksCowboy]

i loved this ep this is the kind of ep i have been waiting for since "Sex Lies and Silicone". it wa funny and entertaining. i give "No Good Deed" an A+.

Adam is the man. i laughed so hard with him acting like the bird.

Danny with that cream stuff.... hilarious.

i'm a D/L fan, i haven't liked them less since TPTB decieded to add the baby storyline in but they need to cut it out with the scenes like Danny talking to the bump. it kinda frustrated me a little especially b/c it was in the lab. i did like how Danny was talking to the bump about comic book characters. could that be a hint to what Baby Boom is?

Flack being cheeky with Stella about the bird. good place to add humor b/c it was humorous that an eye would fall into Stella's coffee. my roomie is Greek and freaked out when she heard Stella say something about the bird in the language.

the case was ok. i knew it was "the brother" all along. there's always a reason someone is shown once for only a few seconds in a scene. i think the guy with the piercings in his head was the most disturbing part of the ep lol. those things look nasty.

Mac needs to realize Ella is playing him so bad. something is going to happen and Mac is going to get into some deep crap with her. i would like to see this end up nicely but that's not CSI style and it's definitly not TV style.

 

[electra]

So I finally watched this episode and liked it a lot.Mainly becouse of the humour.Mac and flack teasing stella,Sid,Adam ,Flack and Danny were simply hilarious.

Mac and Stella have a strong relationship.I don't want to debate if this is love or just friendship,the point in that this is a pleasure to watch.

In respect to Lindsay pulling rank,my opinion is still the same.She is suppoused to be seen as funny.the problem is that she isn't.And interrumpting Adam does not sounds well with me becouse I want more Adam and less lindsay.

I gave it an A-.

 

[Lori K.]

There are actually more people who approve and like Mac and Peyton together.
That you don`t like it is your freedom but that is no excuse to attack someone who does like them.

Good for you have at it

Also,caplocks is yelling and inpolite.

I prefer emphasising myself. Didnt mean to press the sensitivity button or hurt your ears.

Moving on,I have watched this episode again with more a wide awake eye.
I really hope against hope that they follow up on the connection Adam has with that boy.
Maybe he can feel guilty or something because of the conviction.

OOPS! Sorry wrong show

i think the guy with the piercings in his head was the most disturbing part of the ep lol. those things look nasty.

How do you suppose he shampoos them?

 

[Ghawazee]

It's a delight a good debate

Faylinn-->

However, I wanted to point out that Mac can be happy with someone else now (Stella or otherwise) without having to imply that his relationship with Claire was crap. I know people like the idea of each person having their One True Love and all that, but let's be realistic - Mac was married to Claire, he obviously loved her and didn't want to betray her (I'm thinking of Quinn), and it took him a very long time to move on after her death. There's no need to undervalue that relationship in order to build up the importance of any other.

First than all, i NEVER implied their relationship was a crap. However i can ONLY debate with details which were given to us so far and the way i "feel" these characters. We DO know he loved her deeply and her death almost destroyed him. But we know nothing about their marriage or Claire's POV regarding it so i can speculate on it as anybody else can. Certainly Mac kissing someone else is something i have thought many times. And i am one of those who want to have Claire in an episode in flashbacks or coming back alive. I don't care as long i have the chance to know her POV

Miss blue-->

This doesn't mean that my point of view is wrong or that there is only one valid opinion.

your opinion is very much appreciated

PA--->

Two people in a romantic relationship are a "couple." Whether or not we personally agree with the way TPTB are handling the pairings or whether or not we want them to be a canon relationship doesn't negate the fact that they are couples.

Then we have different definition on what a "couple" really is. I think a couple only comes up when you have a deep commiment to each other. I said many times (and i read it as well in many forums as well) Mac and Stella are a couple but without the sex part. The way the comunnicate to each other as they did on 5.16 is the way a OTP should be considered. The way how they allow themselves to show their emotions (Stella when she said "You really care for her" and frustrations (when Mac told her he just needed to hear-what he didnt want to hear-from Stella regarding Ella)

I'm not sure what you're saying here. What I meant was that if the two couples that already exist are still on the show and they add Stella and Mac as a couple it would be overkill. They'd be hooking up the core characters at an alarming rate. Where does it stop?

Sorry for this one. Blame my poor English I tried to say we don't know if at the end we will have those "couples" you mentioned. So it wouldn't be an issue if they decide to pair up Mac and Stella

Where did I say anything was the fault of any fans? In fact I said I have nothing against shipping or fans of ships. There's no reason to take this personally. I'm talking about fictional characters on a TV show.

Me bad. I didn't try to say it was your fault specifically (darn! to explain this in a foreign language is crazy) Beyond the fact other parings were created, SMACked can happen. Other actors, other stories. Real Chemistry for a change we can't be ignored. As Melina said weeks ago " I think People want it". Besides, we have talented writers. Only because they have been erractic at the beginning of this season it doesn't mean we can't have a great storyline this time

Also, having two other couples on the show already is a fact. It doesn't matter what I think of those characters being together to say that having three relationships within the core team is too much is a valid reason for not wanting them together. Also, it's only one of the reasons I don't see/want Mac and Stella to be canon.

who says two can also says three. If the dynamics of these three"couples" is different why should you say "No"?

Besides, i couldn't read other reasons than "they have chemistry but it could ruin it their relationship" (not you. i'm talking in general)

How do you know it could ruin their relationship if it is platonic and it was never tested before?
Certainly i don't understand these reasons. If DL make people angry because they say DL don't have chemistry, why is rejected too quickly the idea of a couple with real chemistry??????? (of course, you are right. It's very subjective the idea of "chemistry" indeed

From what we've seen on screen Mac was devoted to his wife and there's nothing to suggest he'd be anything other than married to her if she was still alive. As for kids, that has not been explored on the show. Couples don't have children for a lot of reasons and there's nothing in canon to suggest why Mac and Claire never had any. We've also never seen anything on screen to suggest Mac has a desire for a family. He is very paternal with the other characters, but that doesn't automatically equal a burning desire to have children.

I NEVER doubted Mac was devoted to Claire. How could i when i remember pretty well one of my fav episode called "Blink"? I said we DO NOT know Claire's feelings on her marriage. And we don't know teh status on their marriage at the time she passed away.
And regarding children you're right. We never had a clue on their decition of not having kids. However it was implied he regretted not having any kids with her. As i said before is the only thing we can do (speculate/imply) since we don't have any "canon" fact

Peyton had every right to get upset when the man she was dating didn't want anyone to know and called her by his dead wife's name. Also, just because he called her "Claire" during an argument doesn't mean they had a bad marriage. Couples have arguments. It's a part of being in a relationship. The fact that they talked about it and Mac apologized in the end makes me stand by my statement that Peyton understood Mac.

i assume she is not stupid and when she started her affair with Mac she already knew how Mac was. At least she said so : "You are a private man" However meanwhile at the beginning she (aparently) felt offended because she was called "Claire", later, in her memories (we could watch them in flashbacks) it was showed she was piss*d off because Mac pushed her hand away when Stella came into the office. Again regarding Claire, i am free to speculate if Mac had those same arguments with his wife. As you said, there is nothing canon yet

The fact that they talked about it and Mac apologized in the end makes me stand by my statement that Peyton understood Mac.

he apologized and accepted their "new deal" because of the same reason he has to believe to Ella now: he can't stand crying women. He cannot stand the idea he is the cause of her tears. Blaming Mac wasn't a good move "Because you are not ready for ussssssssss" yeah, i really like how she understood him

I personally didn't find anything obnoxious about her wanting him to go to London with her. It was stated that Mac never takes vacation and she pushed him a little to do so. I see nothing overly selfish about that and really it kind of speaks to how she understands him. Everyone needs time away from the job. Her willingness to push a little, to me, says she was doing it just as much for him as she was for her. The "Dear Mac" letter was ridiculous, but again, doesn't say she doesn't understand Mac.

It wasn't obnoxious her wanting Mac had some time off. But it was obnoxious the fact she was being too pushy. It showed how little she knew him. He HATES being pushed (for Reed, Sinclair or for anyone else)

besides the reasons she gave him weren't focused on his needs but hers.
"Because you adore me. I know you do":lol: That's the joke of the year:lol: "And i really want you come with me"
Me. Me. Me. Me Dr. "The world without me Driscoll":lol:

And let me tell you the letter thing was completely stupid.

So because the fireman has been written more as eye-candy means any man Stella would be involved with would be an unrealistic relationship? That's quite the leap.

If he is as "special" as the fireman yes. A jacket under a dead body's head:lol:

I love the chemistry between Mac and Stella. I just don't see it as being romantic chemistry. As for other people and other boards, I really don't care what they say. I form my own opinions.

either if you like them or not as a couple you are invited to talk about them inside the Smacked Family Thread. Who knows? Probably at the end of S10 you will change your opinion:lol:

In canon there has been no evidence they are "in love" or meant to be or anything other than close friends and co-workers. As for the "only one" to understand her I will concede for the sake of argument that Mac is that person. But like you said he is that person "so far." There would be no reason TPTB couldn't bring in a man who would be a great match for Stella.

we just can speculate on their feelings despite of never it was showed a bed scene or a kissin on the lips scene Mac is that person and hopefully writers will have the same thought than us:thumbsup:

I'd say that's fine for the shipper threads and fanfiction where people look at subtext and use their imaginations to create the ship they want. It has absolutely no basis in canon no matter how much someone wants to believe it does.

certainly there is not any EVIDENCE so far. However i would like to know why their relationship changed so much after 4.16. And we have solid basis on this one. I have been watching and studying for years now and definitely they are writen in a different way:thumbsup:

Curiosity-->

That is one thing I'm curious about. I don't exactly remember how Mac seemed (somber? regretful?) when he told Reed that he and Claire never had children. But I've wondered if they didn't have children because of fertility issues, because one or both or them didn't want kids, or because they had decided to wait and ran out of time.

He had a sad look when he said they didn't have children of their own

Guess we'll have to see how all the family and relationship stuff plays out. They're only about halfway through the show (assuming it can make it to 9 or 10 seasons), and with that amount of time, I sort of expect to see changes to the cast as well as key relationships before we get to the end

this is exactly i was talking about Hopefully we will see a lot of changes in 4 or 5 years. Gary said Mac will lossen up in S8 so we need to wait until then

Jolein-->

There are actually more people who approve and like Mac and Peyton together

yes there are more people. Some of them post inside the Smacked Family Thread. Believe it or not

That you don`t like it is your freedom but that is no excuse to attack someone who does like them.
Also,caplocks is yelling and inpolite

I guess Mods can take care But Lori wasn't yelling. She was remarking a FACT

Elsie---> i tried to keep this answer as close i i could because it was pertaining to this episode the relationship between Mac and Stella. Many people felt there was a change in their status. But sorry beforehand for any inconvenient

And to all, sorry for my bad English. I try every day to do my best but i guess it's not so good i would like to:thumbsup:

Debbie

 

[Top41]

RE: Ship debate in grading threads

Obviously ship discussions can be, and often are, on topic in a grading thread, like when it pertains to something that actually happened in an episode, or discussing scenes between your favourite, or not so favourite, ships. But extended ship debates like this one are not on topic, and would be better discussed elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but where are we supposed to discuss it? We can't debate ships in the shipper threads so shippers can have a positive atmosphere to talk about their ship, and if we start to debate them in the character/actor threads people get bent out of shape about that. I know there are "The Great Ship Debate" threads in Shipper Central, but I don't go specifically looking to debate ships. I bring it up if I see a natural opening in the conversation and I have something to respond with. Where can we have an extended discussion?

The convo developed organically but at this point, when we're talking about whether or not Mac and Stella live together, it's probably veered a little off topic for a grading thread.

I think the NY forum is pretty open to threads/discussions that veer into ship debate--we've had a few on Danny and Lindsay (since they're canon) and I think it would be okay to have one on whether or not Mac and Stella have potential as a couple. I agree that it's something that can be debated, and I know both Elsie and I like to keep this forum open to as many topics as we can.

That being said, I think it's pretty cool that the SMACked thread is open to both people who see romance in the relationship and those who don't. As a longtime poster here, that really impresses me. Anyway...I think if you guys want to continue this debate, a separate thread in the NY forum would be fine. (Just keep it civil, yadda, yadda, yadda.)

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

RE: Ship debate in grading threads

Obviously ship discussions can be, and often are, on topic in a grading thread, like when it pertains to something that actually happened in an episode, or discussing scenes between your favourite, or not so favourite, ships. But extended ship debates like this one are not on topic, and would be better discussed elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but where are we supposed to discuss it? We can't debate ships in the shipper threads so shippers can have a positive atmosphere to talk about their ship, and if we start to debate them in the character/actor threads people get bent out of shape about that. I know there are "The Great Ship Debate" threads in Shipper Central, but I don't go specifically looking to debate ships. I bring it up if I see a natural opening in the conversation and I have something to respond with. Where can we have an extended discussion?

The convo developed organically but at this point, when we're talking about whether or not Mac and Stella live together, it's probably veered a little off topic for a grading thread.

I think the NY forum is pretty open to threads/discussions that veer into ship debate--we've had a few on Danny and Lindsay (since they're canon) and I think it would be okay to have one on whether or not Mac and Stella have potential as a couple. I agree that it's something that can be debated, and I know both Elsie and I like to keep this forum open to as many topics as we can.

That being said, I think it's pretty cool that the SMACked thread is open to both people who see romance in the relationship and those who don't. As a longtime poster here, that really impresses me. Anyway...I think if you guys want to continue this debate, a separate thread in the NY forum would be fine. (Just keep it civil, yadda, yadda, yadda.)

Thanks for the answer Top. I didn't know the SMACked thread was open for debate. I just assumed it wasn't because other threads I've been in at SC aren't.

 

[Top41]

Generally the ship threads aren't open for debate, and I see the rationale behind that, which is why I certainly wouldn't discourage a discussion of it here. I just thought I'd point out what Ghawazee said because that is something that's impressed about the M/S shippers--they seem pretty open to debating the ship without getting hostile, as do those who don't like the pairing. It's just refreshing to see a ship debate that's not getting hostile!

 

[meeyka]

this is exactly i was talking about Hopefully we will see a lot of changes in 4 or 5 years. Gary said Mac will lossen up in S8 so we need to wait until then

I am really really looking forward to his dancing

 

[Yumi696]

I agree with the second post all the way. Roximonoxide said everything I would've said.

 

[MacsLady]

Regarding the Mac/Ella storyline, the best thing about it in this episode was the resulting partnership/ friendship scenes between Mac and Stella, which were relatively scarce in the first part of the season. It’s nice to see that they still seem to know each other well and can even verbalize when they are stepping out of their normal roles. The role reversal stuff doesn’t really bother me here because I think that is part of the give and take of their relationship. But if it happens too often, the characters can start to lose their core identities.

Hmm…I'm one of those who saw closure of sorts in that last scene between Mac and Ella. Mac’s speech about his childhood friend was a little confusing, but ultimately, I think he was saying to Ella (and the audience) that although she might falter initially while trying to get her life back on track, she would be ok in the end.

I didn’t get any romantic vibes from the scene or any indication that Mac was planning to continue an active, ongoing relationship. He stood in the doorway while talking with some distance between them and said that she could call him if she needed anything, which suggests to me that he will be a resource when she needs help but isn’t planning to be a regular fixture in her life. The expresso trip at the end seemed like a way to show the two (especially Ella) behaving normally towards each other and also served as a bookend to the first scene with Mac, Stella and the eyeball .

Maybe I live in a land of denial on this one, but my impression is that the writers may be done with the psycho-stalker arc here. Basically, they have given us two different versions of Ella -- the last one in which she seemed to be on the path to recovery -- and they can just let it end here or perhaps take it in another direction down the road. If and when she shows up again (perhaps next season), she probably will have a new arc and involvement in some other case, similar to what we saw with Reed. Actually, it would be interesting if she and Reed both showed up at the same time next season, and we could see how they relate to each other when both are vying for Mac’s attention.

As for Mac’s odd behavior this season….One explanation is that certain aspects of these cases are making him realize that he’s lonely and wants to start connecting more closely with people again. And that feeling together with his “hero” personality is causing him to try to reach out to people – sometimes in surprising ways, like inviting his new boss on a coffee date and providing his would-be-stalker with attention. Mac did sound and look a bit wistful when he made that comment to Stella about saving someone’s life being enough to see the beauty behind the beast (or whatever he said), and I think Stella picked up on that feeling, which led to their discussion about Ella. Of course, another possibility is that the changes in Mac are really a result of a little sloppy writing and inconsistent characterization….

Re the whole Mac/Ella thing, the way I feel about it is pretty close to what you describe. I thought Mac's speech at the end was interesting, and while it did seem a little long and out of place, I do think his basic point was that she would be okay in the end.

Ella is definitely unstable, and Stella was right to tell Mac to stay away. His going to see her was a mistake on his part, but I thought it was good to see that his judgement can be clouded by his emotions at times, just like anyone else's.

I think the writers are probably done with the Ella story too, which is kind of a shame as I would have been interested to see what motivated Mac to help her (I don't think he's interested in her romantically). I like your idea that his behaviour could be because of his near death experience, but it would be nice to have that explained. Ella's potentially dangerous, but I really don't want to see another Mac-kidnapped storyline. But his actions here could come back to bite him some other way - I mean when Hawkes helped out that girl who later turned up dead in Murder Sings the Blues, a completely innocent and well-intentioned act on Hawkes' past was shown to come back and bite him - so the same could happen with Mac and Ella.

One thing I loved about the whole Ella situation was that it provided some wonderful Mac/Stella scenes, and really showed the closeness between them and the trust they share and how well they know each other. Loved the coffee scene and the later scene in Mac's office. Bad Mac for not listening to Stella though. Although, she didn't listen to him about Diakos either. Just shows Mac's as capable of being led by his emotions to make mistakes as Stella or anyone else is.

The rest of the ep....

-That was one ugly-a** bird!

-Adam was truly adorkable. My fave scenes were him doing the bird thing and him signaling Mac through the glass wall.:lol:

-LOL at Danny with the cream.:lol: Loved his line to Hawkes about loving him but wanting to hit him too.

-Gross-out episode with the eye and then the stomach in the nest....ewwwwwww.

- the role-reversal with Mac and Stella re Lindsay amused me because Stella was the one who told Mac to be patient with her in The Deep, it was good to see she's now the one getting irritated by it. But both Mac and Stella's tolerance levels with Lindsay's explanations seem to be slipping.

-happiness therapist?:lol:

-I thought Danny talking to the baby was cute, but why do all Danny and Lindsay's major conversations about their relationship happen at work? I wouldn't mind that stuff so much if they'd keep it out of the lab more.

-wow, Mac's childhood friends really had some bad luck!

-The Mac/Ella storyline I don't mind. But Mac taking over Lindsay's role of stating the bleeding obvious - 'it's an eye' - I don't like. 'Boom'....well, as long as it's a one-time thing, I don't mind. Though I'm getting a bit tired of 'boom' generally now.

-Noooooooo, Mac, don't take crazy Ella for coffee!

I give it an A

 

[Sophia's folly]

I am not too sure how I felt about this episode in truth. CSI NY does like to do gross don't they, eyeball in coffee, ugly birds, half eaten bits of bodies but I guess that what they do. I don't mind in truth as long as it's a good storyline. I enjoyed the funny moments with Danny/Mac, Adam/Danny, Hawkes/Danny etc.

For me the Stella and Mac scenes just reiterates for me the friendship and respect that these two have built up over the past 6 plus years, (I don't know exactly how long they have working together) Both these characters are essentially workaholics and both have been through a great deal together so I find it natural that they turn to each other for advice. Regardless as to whether each accepts it.

I am one of those that saw the ending scene between Mac and Ella as closure. I agree with Curiosity about the body language used between Ella and Mac, ie, Mac standing close to doorway, Ella sitting on bed, definitely suggesting that Mac didn't want to get too close but to give Ella reassurance that she will be ok. The story about his friend made me go :wtf:, I have to be honest here, I didn't like that at all, and Macslady you are so right, awful bad luck his childhood friends had! Probably why he is the way he is I suppose, a private man that doesn't give to much away, when you bear in mind what might happen to people he likes!

I also agree that he is changing, and Stella cleverly pointed that out. I do enjoy the sensitive and more gently side of Mac but only when it's necessary and to people that he is strongly attached to and not to those that are essentially part of a case and because of his responsibilty to the lab and his job this was one time that I felt he needed to take a back seat and not get so personally involved. I don't mean make him out to be an insensitive so and so, but I will always remember his little speech to Aiden, about how the integrity of the lab and how he would do anything to uphold that!

I know that trusting Joe and getting it so wrong is an issue in his changing personality development here and of course bearing in mind that people he cares about do get hurt, Stella, Flack, Reed, to name a few. These are just my opinions.

A small and probably insignificant point I want to make which I didn't understand and I know it's only a show but, "half way" house, ok yes I agree a place to be getting help, having nowhere to live? I thought she had a place or did I miss something? Also she has the book deal doesn't she? Something to focus on surely? I know it's petty but why was those two things over looked? For a moment I thought Mac was going to offer her his spare room and then I would have been screaming at the TV and still screaming now!!:lol: As I said, small things!

Actually although I think this is the last we see of Ella I would actually be pleased if she did turn up again. I seriously do not even consider anything romantically between Mac and Ella, so wrong on so many levels and again Macslady, got to agree with you I can't see Gary going down that route. But I quite enjoyed the stalking part of it in so much as if things started to go bad then Mac would be in so much trouble for getting personally involved wouldn't he? I would like to have seen how he would have gotten out of that situation, am I making sense here? Probably not. Ok lets leave it, she has probably gone for good. Move on Sophia

I gave it a B.