The two characters personally involved in Bones (Angela and errm) were inappropriate in the workplace too, but it worked on the show due to the other characters humorous reactions to it, especially Cam. The Danny / Lindsay scene would have worked better if that lady lab tech had not been in the room, then it would have seemed more intimate, even if the room was glass. Though like I said, the scene amused me, seeing Danny showing more interested in the bump than the baby carrier (err mum). For me, boom had already become annoying before anyone else used it, as it had already been overused by Danny. Even the previous joke with Flack using it fell flat, though it probably would have been funny if someone had said it to Danny, in a teasing way.
I like that it was alittle more "lighthearted" and that ALL the characters had a good amount of time. I am glad they FINALLY put Mac and Stella in a more nateral role. It is quite abvious they have chemistry why not play it? Every time they try to put them with someone else it just does not seem to fit IMHO! They have been working together all this time and NO attraction? CMon a little hard to believe! So I am glad the writers have loosened up a bit! And Adam was great! He was not an insult to his character he is the coworker who likes to make people laugh despite the saddeneses he holds within. I say he was wonderful thanks for the smiles Adam I give the show an A+. By the way roxi should Danny have that gun?
People work together all the time without feeling any romantic attraction to each other. Personally I think it's a little hard to believe, that with Danny and Lindsay and Flack and Angell already couples, that there'd be another set of co-workers within the same team of workers being romantically linked. I like the fact that Mac and Stella are so close without being a couple. TV doesn't show that relationships between men and women can be professional and friendly without turning romantic often enough.
Mac and Stella clearly do have great chemistry and are definately attracted to each other as people, but often the strongest, longest lasting relationships we have are with people outwith a romantic setting. A strong business partnership is based on understanding and respect, which is definately shown here, but IMO it would ruin the credibility of the characters if they put them together as a couple. This show is enough of a soap already, no more couplings please.
Today i read an article in the newspaper. It said there are more relationships between coworkers and between a chief and an employee than you can imagine. You only need to go carefully but there is not reason to deny your feelings. In special when you spend more time with them than with your family and your "normal" friends. In the case of Mac and Stella i think they need to be together. Nobody in the world could understand them than each other. They have had different relationships as Lori said but they were meant not to work. Why? It's easy. When you commit to a relationship you need to consider your partner as your best friend. I can't imagine being engaged with Tom but having my best friend in Ted. Because you need to think your partner is the person who will know all your secrets, who will know you more than anybody else will, who will support you, who will argue with you if you are ot of line. Mac and Stella fit that description. Their chemistry is there, they have a credible relationship, the passion of both characters, the beauty of their heart to heart conversations No, i think YESTERDAY isn't soon enough for them Debbie
I'm not denying it happens in real life. We're not talking about real life. We're talking about a TV show. On this show the core team is Mac, Stella, Danny, Lindsay, Flack, Angell, Adam, Sid and Hawkes. There are already two couples out of those core characters. Adding another couple would be overkill, IMO. If they get Mac and Stella together then what? Are they gonna add another female lab tech and another female CSI to hook up with Adam and Hawkes? Then have Sid's wife suddenly show up as a CSI or the new deputy inspector since Julia Ormond's character is no longer on the show? Two couples are more than enough. I disagree with that completely. Mac was married and would still be married if his wife hadn't died. I don't think it's a great leap to assume they understood each other. I think Peyton understood Mac even though the relationship didn't work out in the end. We haven't seen Stella interact with a man on a real emotional level except for Frankie and he turned out to be psycho. Right now her romantic interest seems to be just eye-candy, but I could easily see TPTB bringing in a love interest who "understands" her. You're right it is easy. This is a drama. Happy relationships don't work on dramas. Just because they haven't had relationships that have worked out doesn't automatically mean they are destined to be with no one but each other. It just means neither one has found love yet. I agree that a couple should have a solid friendship before they become romantically involved. But I don't think being in a romantic relationship precludes people having extremely close friends of the opposite sex. In fact, I think it's important to have strong friendships with both sexes outside your romantic relationship. All of the things you describe can happen in a platonic relationship too. They're both very passionate, they do have a certain chemistry and they do have serious, heart to heart conversations; but I don't think they are passionate about each other or have romantic chemistry. They have a strong bond and work well together. I think that's enough, especially since TV has a hard time grasping the fact that male and female leads don't always have to turn into a couple. And to me NEVER is too soon.
Lost my reply and hadda start again. I don't wanna get into shipland stuff too deeply cos it's always a place with very strong feelings, no doubt. I will only insofar as I have an opinion on how I think it would affect the show. And I gotta say I agree, no matter who is in question, too much of that sorta stuff can become a detriment to the show. While I believe office romances are indeed quite prevalent, that doesn't mean there hasta be that kind of parallel depicted on tv. With less than an hour's screentime, it's not what I wanna see a lot of it devoted to. For me it always cynically feels like a ratings grab to go that route, especially within the core of canon characters. I mean, tell me it wasn't on Miami (didn't calleigh and delko get together or something?). With CSI, as I remember it anyways, I thought the early snippets of odd interplay between Sara and Grissom were quirky, puzzling, fairly subtle and spaced out, and I didn't really know if the writers were just having fun or if anything was really gonna come of it. It as a longtime teaser with them. When they finally crossed it, it was like it made demands on the writers and the show that it hadn't previously imposed. Some liked it and some didn't. But whether you did or not, go ahead and tell me ratings weren't a factor in the decision to stretch the boundaries of a show that'd been on the air for a loooong time at the point where they did... And tell me that TPTB in NY aren't doing exactly the same thing by positioning 5.17 with regards to sweeps? :vulcan: Look, CSINY is not a night time soap, it's a crime drama. CSINY is not RL, it's a convenient selection of things compiled and edited to depict the investigation of a case. What I tune in to watch every week is not who is hooking up or batting eyelashes at whom, but what they're gonna be faced with in a case, how they're gonna go about solving it, and how it's gonna affect them. Me personally, imo, Mac and Stella oughtta remain solely long time friends and partners. It is such a rare thing, especially to see on tv, and I hope that line is never crossed between them. It might be fun sometime to see a flashback of them first meeting and being assigned as partners, because if any flirting was likely to have happened, that's when it probably woulda, in jockeying to figure out their dynamics. It might also be fun to see one of Stella pushing Mac to ask Claire out or something like that, or it could be interesting to see Mac confide in Stella after that one kiss with Quinn happened. There are lots of ways to be fun and/or insightful in looking at their particular partnership other than romance. I was, and still am, very much holding my breath that Flack/Angell is handled well, and in many ways I think hints of it are far better than overt depictions and devoted storylines. As for the dramallama, I can't even begin to tell you how much I've grown to detest DL over the past few seasons. I just don't think the pairing has made for good tv, nor that it's done either of the characters any good at all. Sometimes, stuff is just best at a level of flirtation. Not everything needs outright screentime. And some stuff is just best left left to the imagination alone. I do appreciate and actually like seeing the core characters have a life referenced outside work, especially in how it may inform how they approach their job in general. I like it whether it's conversational, like Adam talking about one of his many ex-girlfriends, or his father, or Sid inviting Mac over for a holiday dinner. I also like where sometimes it's actually depicted, like a Knicks game with Flack and Danny, Stella out on a date, though hopefully in future not with a psycho, a stalker, or too much of a lightweight; Stella going over to Danny's with soup was also good, Flack and Mac visiting Sid in the hospital to watch a Rangers game, Mac playing his bass on occasion is okay, etc. Those sorts of scenes let us in without detracting from the show, sometimes even serve it well at the same time. I don't like scenes of Danny moping after Lindsay or spilling his guts to grieving parents, don't like Lindsay having snits where Danny's concerned, wasn't a fan of the belly smooch, or even Flack and Angell's kiss. I dunno why, but Mac and Peyton overall got up my nose less in how they were depicted, and before Stella's men went off the deep end in their respective cases, I didn't mind how her personal life was handled. The show is still ultimately about their work solving homicides, and I hope the show never loses that focus. If it's done well, you still like and care about the characters, because you're in their world, watching what they've each chosen to devote their professional lives to, and at what cost. And yes, a personal life helps to keep an inner balance, so by all means, talk about it and have the occasional scene. - I'm always relieved and heartened in reading interviews done with the actors where they voice sentiments on the show and the characters that resonate with my own, because I feel that I'm reading things in their performances that they wanted to come across. In Melina's case, she was asked about Mac & Stella's relationship, and echoed that she thought the two should remain unentangled romantically, that they're more brother/sister with a great friendship, and that neither would jeopardize it. (the interview I'm talking about was one of Kristing Huntley's from Dec. 2007; http://www.csifiles.com/interviews/melina_kanakaredes.shtml ) There's a far wider world to reference than that of just romance, so how about some creativity from the writers and directors to dig into that a little more...? (and fer chrissakes, someone please give reveal a little more about Hawkes sometime? I'd far rather that than screentime given a wedding, or anything to do with the first CSI franchise bairn...)
Whoa! This has turned into a massive for-or-against-Smacked thread! Personally, I ship Smacked -and Fiesta as well, I'm that strange-, but I understand people who don't want Mac and Stella sharing other than deep friendship and brotherly love. Seeing a male/female relationship of this kind is extremely rare because it means both characters must achieve a delicate balance, always walking on the edge of that "something else" that could ruin everything. I wish they'd cross the line, but I understand them not wanting to jeopardize everything they've got as they are now. Also, we have the omnipresent D/L story, as well as Flack/Angell, so three couples would be a little bit too much. Elwood21, I second you: we need more Hawkes!
I didn't want this to get into a shipper debate, because frankly I don't really ship anyone with anyone else. I like to read fanfics of all different pairings as long as they are good. I dislike Danny and Lindsay and am vocal about it, but that's not because I ship him or her with someone else. I'd prefer if Flack and Angell would've stuck to flirting, but that's not because I ship them with other people. No matter who it is, I think a third pairing on this show is massive overkill. It just seems like Mac and Stella would be the logical two to pair up if they wanted another romantic pairing. I'm talking about Mac and Stella because people are talking about how it's unrealistic that they would be with other people or unrealistic that they wouldn't have romantic feelings for each other. I completely disagree with that. I also think the quality of the show would suffer if the dynamic between the two leads was changed in such a drastic way. It has nothing to do with a specific ship or their shippers. I just don't think this pairing would be beneficial to the show if it became canon, especially with how the other pairings have been handled in canon.
It is unfortunate that they decided to throw D/L together just because Anna got pregnant,now everyone seems to dislike the relationship. The Flack Angel thing is not so bad they have not shown any thing romantic since. My vote is get rid of the other relationships and get the one that is more mature because it can be tactfully handled.. Mac and Stella. Somehow I cant see Mac talking to Stellas tummy about "Super heros" :lol: But they could just give the hint that they are commited without putting them in bed or kissing or any of that. There regular correspondence together and case solving together generates an intimacy that is great to watch and I think they can still stay independant people while being together. There maturity level suggests they would be private and professional as well so whats the problem? Besides Peyton worked "On the team" so to speak in the ME lab and people were O.K. with that
i wouldn't go so far to call them "couples". You need time, patience and love to be somebody's couple. Flack and Angell? have potential. DL? well, i prefer not to talk about them anymore who said at the time they get together they will be the only couple around? besides if other pairing were created is not Smacked fans' fault. It would be stupid that having a REAL couple with REAL chemistry, it's not used only because you made the mistake (or not) of pairing up other people first. Besides, all people need to to find their SO. Hawkes and Adam too! Making a reference to somebody's girldfriend it's not overkill Wrong. Only because you are married doesn't necessarily mean you are happy. Because if it were like that ,divorce wouldn't exist, would it? Besides we know nothing on Mac and Claire's marriage. We do know he loved her deeply but we don't know how their marriage was at the time Claire died. Mac made a reference in Blink regarding "doing the same for his wife" (watching her sleep as he was doing with the victim in coma). I wonder if that fact didn't annoy Claire. Who wants to have her husband coming home so late that he couldn't say hello to you? Also, why they didn't have kids when it's so obvious Mac's desire of having a family??? Actually now he is acting as a father with Adam and even Danny. That behaviour is a reflection of his desire. Are you serious???? a woman who almost had to beg him to be with her???? a woman who had to push him to "make official" the fact they were dating??? a woman who was offended by the fact he called her "Claire"????? See? that's why i tell you not to be confident on Mac's marriage until that storyline is developed (if it is). Peyton was demanding (Raising Shane) and Mac called her "Claire" as if he had that argument before with his wife. But before was his wife indeed. Peyton wasn't and she was offended. But i think she was more offended by the fact he pushed her hand away from his face when Stella came up (because her latter memories were a proof of that) than because of the fact being called by Mac's dead wife And excuse me but she bought the tickets to London and she expected to go with him. It was always about "ME"ME"ME"ME" I can't see any maturity there and it was showed in the way she dumped him with a "dear John" letter!!!!! i doubt it. It would be as unrealistic as the fireman was. NOTHING in fact. Besides in the way she was written on the last episode it was already written who her true love is But again, who coudl compare to Mac if we considerer someone needs to understand her completely? She loves the lab, loves her job and nobody else than another equal to her can understand her. And the only one is Mac so far and why can't they find their love as you say in each other??? I am not saying they cannot have other friends. I say your S.O MUST be your BEST friend. I have had strong friendships with men (even they were stronger than with some of my female friends) and i enjoyed them because there is always chemistry when a man and a woman are reunited. However i didn't find my best friend yet. That man who i will talk to all my secrets and who will know me more than anybody else. I can't say the same about Mac and Stella the existence or not of chemistry is very personal and very subjective. I can only say many people here and other boards have said they were hooked to CSI NY because the chemistry between Mac and Stella. Later in S2, they decided to split them up a little but luckily the romantic feeling is coming back again. I felt it since the beginning i knew you would say thatYou know, inside the Smacked Thread many of us think they are living together. Because we have studied them for years and they changed after 4.16. I wonder how you would react to that Debbie ps: Lori, who said i don't want Mac and Stella in bed??? I DO!
I really have no desire to debate whether or not Mac and Stella are/should be in a relationship (I don't think they are and I don't think they should be, but that's just me). However, I wanted to point out that Mac can be happy with someone else now (Stella or otherwise) without having to imply that his relationship with Claire was crap. I know people like the idea of each person having their One True Love and all that, but let's be realistic - Mac was married to Claire, he obviously loved her and didn't want to betray her (I'm thinking of Quinn), and it took him a very long time to move on after her death. There's no need to undervalue that relationship in order to build up the importance of any other. She's dead, I think that opens things up enough. The way I look at it, Claire was the right person for him at that time in his life, and now he has to find the right person for this period in his life. [/soap box]
Felt like I had two extra cents and I just want to put them here. I don't think that Mac and Stella should be in a relationship either. I do agree, the chemistry they have is absolutely awesome, and they are close to each other, and she understands him and knows how to push his buttons and vice-versa. I just like to think about them as being close without being romantically involved, because if you ask me a good solid friendship kicks love's ass anytime. And I also understand that each one of us interprets what is on the screen in our own way, but what happens outside of it, it's only product of fan imagination. This doesn't mean that my point of view is wrong or that there is only one valid opinion.
Two people in a romantic relationship are a "couple." Whether or not we personally agree with the way TPTB are handling the pairings or whether or not we want them to be a canon relationship doesn't negate the fact that they are couples. I'm not sure what you're saying here. What I meant was that if the two couples that already exist are still on the show and they add Stella and Mac as a couple it would be overkill. They'd be hooking up the core characters at an alarming rate. Where does it stop? Where did I say anything was the fault of any fans? In fact I said I have nothing against shipping or fans of ships. There's no reason to take this personally. I'm talking about fictional characters on a TV show. Like you said, chemistry is subjective and there are different types of chemistry. Also, having two other couples on the show already is a fact. It doesn't matter what I think of those characters being together to say that having three relationships within the core team is too much is a valid reason for not wanting them together. Also, it's only one of the reasons I don't see/want Mac and Stella to be canon. See what Fay said. From what we've seen on screen Mac was devoted to his wife and there's nothing to suggest he'd be anything other than married to her if she was still alive. As for kids, that has not been explored on the show. Couples don't have children for a lot of reasons and there's nothing in canon to suggest why Mac and Claire never had any. We've also never seen anything on screen to suggest Mac has a desire for a family. He is very paternal with the other characters, but that doesn't automatically equal a burning desire to have children. Peyton had every right to get upset when the man she was dating didn't want anyone to know and called her by his dead wife's name. Also, just because he called her "Claire" during an argument doesn't mean they had a bad marriage. Couples have arguments. It's a part of being in a relationship. The fact that they talked about it and Mac apologized in the end makes me stand by my statement that Peyton understood Mac. I personally didn't find anything obnoxious about her wanting him to go to London with her. It was stated that Mac never takes vacation and she pushed him a little to do so. I see nothing overly selfish about that and really it kind of speaks to how she understands him. Everyone needs time away from the job. Her willingness to push a little, to me, says she was doing it just as much for him as she was for her. The "Dear Mac" letter was ridiculous, but again, doesn't say she doesn't understand Mac. So because the fireman has been written more as eye-candy means any man Stella would be involved with would be an unrealistic relationship? That's quite the leap. It's fine to say they are each other's "true love" in fan fics and in the shipper threads because that is what they were made for. People to talk about the subtext and what they'd like to see happen. In canon there has been no evidence they are "in love" or meant to be or anything other than close friends and co-workers. As for the "only one" to understand her I will concede for the sake of argument that Mac is that person. But like you said he is that person "so far." There would be no reason TPTB couldn't bring in a man who would be a great match for Stella. I personally don't want them to because I see them as having a great dynamic already. They are good friends and co-workers and I think getting them together romantically would kill that special dynamic that is too often ignored by TV shows in favor of romance. I agree couples must be friends first. I just disagree that this particular friendship should turn into romance and that these two characters are right for each other in that respect. I love the chemistry between Mac and Stella. I just don't see it as being romantic chemistry. As for other people and other boards, I really don't care what they say. I form my own opinions. I'd say that's fine for the shipper threads and fanfiction where people look at subtext and use their imaginations to create the ship they want. It has absolutely no basis in canon no matter how much someone wants to believe it does.
RE: Ship debate in grading threads Obviously ship discussions can be, and often are, on topic in a grading thread, like when it pertains to something that actually happened in an episode, or discussing scenes between your favourite, or not so favourite, ships. But extended ship debates like this one are not on topic, and would be better discussed elsewhere.