yeah, i'd like more moments like the one with the hockey game, that was lovely - although i think what's holding mac back this time is that maybe flack's misery is too close to home for him. he sympathised over flack's suspension because he'd been through similar in previous episodes - obviously he's been through something similar this time too but that was a personal thing, not a job related thing - but like something i said before (can't remember where, maybe the mac thread), i think he finds it hard to talk to people about stuff if it's not work related - it's almost like if the problem falls within the clearly defined boundaries of affecting work, then he can do it because it comes under his job description as supervisor, but when it's something personal, he doesn't seem to be sure of how far he can interfere - unless/until it directly affects work. flack freezing in the upcoming episode may well give him that opportunity. as for the peyton chat, i got the impression he was telling flack more so that flack could do some professional digging, than to talk to flack about a personal problem. if there *is* an app for that, i need it! i already have a mac for that i agree - that moment was definitely a "concern" as opposed to an "emergency" meeting. i think mac knows exactly what's going on, and that flack is definitely not fine, but as above i think he's avoiding getting too much into it, and i think maybe mac shut down on stella in that little conversation because he's not ready to talk about what might be affecting flack, even with stella, as he knows it may well affect him personally too, what with the reasons for flack's slide being so similar to the reasons for his own problems in the past. this is true - it often takes an outside objective view to notice the real issues, especially if friends are either too wary of upsetting the boat, or are too wary of dragging up their own problems. i saw that scene far more as training than observation - i know he *said* she was to observe but i think he was approaching it almost like a surgeon might approach student observers - by asking her what she'd do, it was like he was testing how far she actually knew her onions, and therefore working out how far he could use her once the training/observation was over. me too - i think mac is great but they need to make a bit more of him for now, at the moment it's like gary is coasting along in "i have lots of nemeses and will look intense" mode - it'd be nice to see some more action, not in a chasing baddies kind of way, but in a mac having feelings'n'shit kind of way. i think it was someone else that said the quoted bit, not me, but i do agree with you! i would quite like to see an icarus moment but i'd settle for a not able to fix the entire world.
I rewatched the episode a second time and I found funny the difference between Adam and Hawkes speaking about haylen like a hot and cute blond and Danny who seems really not interesting at all now. I remember the other season when he watched the hoola hoop in the street or the pom pom girl in personal foul it seems they want to show us that he is a married man now and doesn't watch girl anymore
True, true. Personally, I would like it to be Terrence. I just don't think Don Flack is going to open up to anyone he works with at the precinct or the lab because, number one, that's just not him and number two, he can't admit to them that he killed the guy unarmed in a fit of rage and grief. He has to portray himself as being "fine". But Terrence...here is someone I could see getting through to Flack on a personal level. He is someone who doesn't live the "by the rules" life of a policeman, someone who could and probably has shot and killed someone in retaliation and sees the world from a different perspective than Mac, Danny, Sythe, etc. I will be very interesting to see it all unfold and I think Terrence will be integral to Flack's recovery.
It's true; I remember Ryan, when he first came, being all determined to prove himself without being overconfident -- but then, he'd already been a patrol officer by then, the muscles were kind of implied Oh yeah, he did say he was letting Haylen observe; but the thing is, I remember her actually processing the compass (which was actually evidence) a little and running it through mass spec; even though Adam was right there, and it probably would've been better (not to mention more credible, when it came to using the evidence in court) to let Adam do it. That's why it felt so different from Aiden's first scene, because even though she was handling actual evidence too, she seemed to realize what a big deal it was. I remember the teaching-scene Mac also had with Lindsay in her first episode; but I thought that came off more realistically as a teaching scene because he was just having her stab a specimen pig with possible replicas of the murder weapon. I don't know, it really is a tiny thing, and I can make allowances for the time-constraints of TVland :lol:; but on the first few watches of this episode, it just rubbed me wrong. The CSI-verse's clean-up techs is another one of their continuity issues :shifty: Haylen always seems to be alone whenever she comes to clean up a scene (even though I'm assuming she's a rookie, so that should be weird); but the only other CSI clean-up tech I've seen -- Natalia's ex-husband on Miami -- was always with a crew when he was cleaning up scenes. And yeah, I'm also hoping TPTB take the realistic route with what they've set up in her character -- her pushiness could come off as ruthless ambition really well if it's a deliberate choice, and they decide to make it so that she's interested in her goals, not in making friends...and have that come across in her interactions with other people. That would make her character so much meatier, and interesting. Thing is, even though the conditions aren't ideal for her to be integrated into the fold (what with being part-time and all), I'm not that optimistic about them not setting up to make her seem adored by everyone anyway, like they did with Lindsay and Angell, and even Peyton to an extent, really. Mac already seems charmed by her -- or at least, charmed by her effect on Adam -- and the two scenes we've seen her interact with Stella (admittedly, one of them isn't canon yet, only saw it in the ET Canada AJ Buckley/Sarah Carter interview) imply that Stella's likely to be really fond of her as well. If they are intending her to be all perfect and lovable, I guess whether or not her Sekrit makes her sympathetic and humanized will depend on whether it sets her up as being accountable and in the wrong -- or whether it sets her up as being a victim, and having everyone treat her as such (like Lindsay). If they go the route of the latter, I foresee an S3 problem on our hands. I agree, it must be a really hard balance between having the characters be personally involved in the case -- and making the show All About the Characters. But I really wonder if they could resolve that issue by ...maybe focusing less on one character in particular, like Mac. Season 2 seemed to have a lot of cases which the main characters had a personal stake in, but it was by far more evenly balanced because it was varied -- it wasn't always the same character who was personally affected. We saw Mac, we saw Stella, Danny, Aiden, even Lindsay, and Flack (even if he was unconscious during his involvement). I can definitely see the attraction of having recurring villains in a crime series, but for a franchise like CSI (all about the impartial forensics), it'd be best of those villains seemed to be personally pitted against the entire team, rather than just one character alone. CSI: M has long fallen into that pattern (Horatio had like, five separate mortal nemeses after him in Season 7 alone, and I doubt any of them even cared that he had a team -- at least, beyond wondering how they could use that team against him ), and I've kind of lost hope for that show...and it's like NY is following their lead. Yeah, I can see how she wouldn't seem so yet :lol:...with characters like House and Riley, and even Hodges a little -- though I wonder -- a huge part of their endearing effect is that they know on some level how they're coming off, and they don't care -- and the people around them (even if they might secretly find their traits endearing) treat them with the proper exasperation that such traits would warrant. I guess Haylen's ego comes off as endearing to me because it doesn't seem like she's unconscious of it -- with little things like the clothes she changed into in "Epilogue", and the "not anyone could've found that print", and the "you can't afford me", and even the little grin she gave Adam when he saw her with Mac in the lab...I can't imagine that she doesn't realize how she's coming off. And for now, it's been pretty easy to swallow because Adam and Mac do, at times, treat her with the exasperation that kind of self-satisfaction warrants. I guess the problem is, that it's not at all clear whether they're actually responding to her ego or not; and whether the other characters will likewise respond properly, or whether they'll treat her like she really is the greatest thing since gas-fueled cars. I mean, Adam seemed to be exasperated more by her going after his job than by the way she thought she was awesome. And same with Mac; he was more irritated by her persistence in that first scene, than by her ego. Oh my gosh, exactly! And argh!:scream: There were so many different ways they could've handled AB's pregnancy without entirely scrapping their original plans for the fifth season, and I'm sure any of them would've come off very successfully...but it's like this need for a "canon pairing" (and apparently, the need to show that canon pairing all but surgically attached to each other, ad nauseum) has overruled many other aspects of the show, including the characters themselves. And while I know canon relationships, when they're introduced, can never completely go away; but that doesn't mean the couple's ability to exist outside of each other also vanishes forever -- especially if they've broken up. Hell, even when they're together -- I can think of so many shows right now that have handled even married canon couples without getting rid of the characters' outside existence.
I usually don't post on here not because I don't want to, but usually watch Jay Leno, but the previews were so overwhelming that I did. WOW, what a great team the killer and the compass:wtf: what a freak and why? I like the interaction between the cast members and had no idea what a fox Hill Harper and Eddie Cahill were and the cuteness between Danny and Lindsay,[she reminds me of a young Sally Field] so in love so supportive of one another, do we ever get to see their baby girl? Kept my interest all throughout, Mac and Stella are awesome the whole team.. Good show:thumbsup:
Gave it a B.... It was a bit slow at the beginning... and nothing really caught my attention in this epsiode....
They showed the baby at the end of the premiere ep. Well, sort of. You couldn't really see her. Lindsay was holding her and she was all wrapped up in a pink blanket. She was teeny tiny in that scene and now they're saying she's ten months old. :lol:
^ :lol: I agree with what Plenilunio said earlier in the thread...she's like Renesmee Cullen v.02. She might be a toddler by the time Danny starts walking and running again.
I really don't have a problem with them jumping forward in time. I was expecting it at some point to be honest. This isn't a real time show so they have the option of jumping forward weeks, months and even years (let's hope not) if they choose. But, like other's have said, if they're going to do the jump they have to do it for all the characters not just D/L/L. It was ridiculous that Haylen's story had only taken two weeks in that time. TPTB really do need to up their game in terms of consistency otherwise they just come across as sloppy and that's when they will lose viewers imo. I actually enjoyed this episode. It was a bit slow but knowing the storyline will continue I was able to enjoy it without the faster pace. I love how they're focusing on setting up Flack's storyline and that really is enhanced by the knowledge that it's been months rather than weeks since Angell's death. Likewise Danny's struggle seems more realistic knowing some time has passed.
Hello All, I gave to the episode an A because I really liked. I read what almost all the comments and I agree with some deissagree with some others. Firstly I didn't find the episode slow I think in many series that was happening because the director/writters wanted to highlight some events or explain some others so, I considered it to be ok. I agree with the "time jump" it's funny when it happens. I thought that more or less all the episodes are real time I will be surprised to see a X-mas episode for example, TPTB will have to be a little carefull there. I enjoyed watching Mac and Stella working together it was a nice change D/L didn't bother me I found it within the limits of "in-every-episode-DL-reference". Flack was very very very nice. Don't get me wrong but I like to watch "tormented-Don" Eddie really delivers his role very well! It was a touching when he was waiting alone in the car while watching Jess' family gathering. and a last thing is is Haylen's voice irritating or is it just me????? That's my thoughts of the episode, See ya!
I gave it a C. Me and my mother watched 'the mentalist', 'csi', and 'csi ny' straight through, and we really enjoyed the third episode of 'the mentalist' and the first episode of new season's csi(they made good use of the 'matrix' scene). Unfortunately the third episode of csi ny was boring, and I haven't felt like that before. Mac was too much like a teacher around Haylen. I think that wasn't necessary. Lab experiment scenes were too long(It's not likely that it was much longer then usual, though) and the music was unnecessarily loud so I went to kitchen for a coffee. flack's story was nice and touching but that wasn't related to the case or anyone other than stella. Hope this week's one will be better.
Certainly not true of Riley, no. With Haylen and Lindsay there is/was an "I'm better than you" smugness. That's not appealing on any character, male or female. She was questioning Mac's decision and making it personal, wasn't she? I think he probably would have done it to anyone replacing Aiden, yeah. But Danny is a tease--he teased Adam, he and Hawkes made cracks about Angell on her first day ("Angell gets her wings"), he's made fun of Hawkes, too. As for Haylen, he hasn't even met her that we know of, so how could he play a joke on her? Not to mention, Danny not seeming in joking spirits lately. I'll have to listen to that commentary at some point. She was so bad in that episode. Maybe she's been decent in others--I'll admit she's not always terrible, and has given good performances before. But the crying and the yelling at Stella in that episode was laughable. DL never left, though. It was there in LRC, Oedipus Hex, Sweet Sixteen (when he asked about her snakebite), The Lying Game, and of course, Sleight out of Hand. It wasn't in Silent Night... and that's about it. DL has always, always been a part of the Lindsay character, since her first introduction in Zoo York. Not in season four, but he was pretty happy in season five about the baby. It seems like outside of DL, the character's kind of a lost cause--what storyline has she ever really had outside of DL? But what drama? The drama was in season four. There was nothing in the beginning of season five, most likely because they were supposed to be done (whether it be permanently or for the time being, who knows). Yeah, and her reaction was laughable. But they were married at that point--what choice did the writers have? Her reaction had to be shown. Luckily she was better in the rest of the episode. But only one of them has ever really flown solo before. And when he flies solo, he's an interesting, complex ball of angst. She's a glorified lab rat. That's certainly been more true recently, but I remember as recently as midway through last season, you couldn't read a thread about Lindsay here or elsewhere and not have Danny or the relationship mentioned. It's canon now--people can stop sweating and worrying about it and hope Lindsay will actually be developed as a character. And maybe she will--I just don't think there's much there. She's a cliche, and she's never really risen above that. Maybe I'm wrong about the character--I wouldn't mind if I was, if there was more to her than there seems to be, or if Anna could add some layers to her. She's inoffensive right now, she really is. But I look at her performance and I don't see any layers. I don't get the sense she's a new mom struggling with a newborn at an impaired husband. And I'm not just talking Whitesnake t-shirts--the actress shouldn't need the freakin' wardrobe department to help her out. Where are the small moments--like her reacting slowly to something because she's exhausted or just taking a moment in the lab because she's actually alone for five minutes and it's great--or terrible? Something. There's none of that there. It's nice that she's supportive of Danny--it really is. And Anna has been good in those scenes with him. But there's still not a lot of depth there. I'm not saying it is. But from what I've observed, most of Lindsay's fans are also DL fans, which indicates to me that the romance with Danny is part of what is appealing about her character. It's not just Anna alone, it's not just Carmine alone. But I think Carmine's early appeal in season one had something to do with DL--he was a breakout character, and naturally, the default response to draw viewers in--particularly younger viewers--is to put him into a cutesy relationship. The other thing about Anna, and Lindsay is the Montana angle. There's a reason we're reminded in every other episode that Lindsay is from Montana. It's because for whatever reason, season one of CSI: NY was seen as too gritty, too urban, too dark. So the sets got brighter and Midwestern/western Lindsay got brought in to replace ethnic New Yorker Aiden. Clearly, someone thought the show wasn't appealing to Middle America enough. So Lindsay is there to do that. Well, and here's the other thing I've observed--a lot of people who like Lindsay seem to identify with her. Whether it be the small town girl in the big city thing or the wanting to prove themselves thing, there seems to be a connection there. In part, I think it's because the character is something of a pat stereotype--it's easy to identify with the everywoman. I have to say, the discussion in the Lindsay thread is way, way more interesting than I've ever seen it before. It used to just be about her hair/clothes and her relationship with Danny. I'd like to see her grow into a kickass character, because I love kickass characters, especially kickass female characters. My all time favorite character ever is Buffy. And maybe that's why I find Lindsay so frustrating--she's such a cliched "poor me, I'm such a victim" whiner much of the time. She started out with some real promise in Zoo York, and has shown spirit now and then--I actually love the way she made Danny "pay" her in Snow Day... that was awesome. It's just that much of the time, the negatives outweigh the positives. Maybe the characters has turned a corner this season--I hope so. So much better! But then, Friends was a comedy with a romantic bend, and no show did drama and relationships better than Buffy. Still, each CSI show has its couple, and those couples do generate buzz. If you read the internet TV show coverage on EW or E!Online, it's almost all about couples, because people are most curious about what characters are hooking up with whom and when. :lol: Yeah, I definitely agree with this. Though I think the female characters that come off the strongest--Catherine, Stella and Calleigh--do so by showing how smart they are and carrying themselves confidently.
No, it's not an appealing trait with anyone -- even though we've seen it on all the characters in this show at least twice -- but none of those three new females ever really came off that way to me from the very beginning. Riley was a bit of a show-off, I thought, but it didn't seem like she was willing to step over anyone to show off. Neither did Lindsay (I think the closest she ever came to actual "I'm better than you" smugness was with people who were sending the message that they thought they were better than her; and even then she just kind of proved them wrong, rather than tried to step on their toes). And Haylen, definitely self-confident (to say the least) never gave me the impression that she thought she could, or was, doing the job better than Adam or anyone else. But she went back to the lab and did her job, didn't she? And didn't spend the time griping about how Mac was an ineffective boss or saying she could do things so much better than anyone else. I don't think being upset over Mac's decision is the same as thinking she's all that. I know Danny is a tease; and not that it's not funny to watch :lol: But I don't see how that somehow makes it okay when his jokes take that "I'm better than you" turn with the new people. I know he hasn't met/teased Haylen -- that's why I added the 'yet'; although I'm not too sure we'll be seeing much teasing from him anytime soon. He was a little harsh with Adam in the beginning, but again, he never brought Mac into it. Calling Hawkes "Doc" isn't exactly harsh. ("Doc" is a nod to Sheldon's medical skills. "Montana" -- at least, back in early S2 -- was more a nod to his thinking that Lindsay belonged back there.) Hawkes made the Angell joke...I think Danny said something like "Benson took off the training wheels?"; no involving Angell's boss in the teasing, no assuming that she couldn't do her job. "Silent Night" wasn't exactly my favourite episode either, though not because I had a huge problem with Anna Belknap's acting. But yeah, it was an interesting commentary...as soon as I get hold of my S3-set, I'll try putting up a transcript for those two scenes. It was Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend, though, so I'm up at my parents' place. I left the dvd-set back home :brickwall: Not that I don't agree. But DL has also been mentioned (or hinted at) in less than half of the total episodes Lindsay's been in. Up until S5, it'd be very easy to get to know/like her without even being aware she's in a love-storyline with Danny. And simply hinting at DL wouldn't have meant anything in terms of their being together during Lindsay's arc -- they were still apart because of her. Like they were from Child's Play onwards, only because of Danny (and the DL scenes in CP, PwM, DOA for a Day, RND, LWFM, PF, etc. didn't exactly save Danny from being run over the coals by many DL fans for keeping DL apart; regardless of his storyline). If that's all the DL fans were interested in, DL being together, I think we'd've seen a little more anger directed toward Lindsay during her storyline. If TPTB had followed through with the original plans, I don't see how they would've made D and L -- or L, at least -- move on without acknowledging what had happened in S4. (I can't see how they would've written a moving-on storyline otherwise.) But regardless, Lindsay was clearly about to have a storyline outside of DL in S5...and if the character was such a lost cause, why would TPTB have bothered with that route? And her fans have been crying for years, from what I've seen, for her to have a storyline outside of DL. TPTB not listening doesn't somehow invalidate the wishes of the Lindsay-fans. That's not making much sense to me, seeing as longer parts of the episode were at least as emotion-filled (AB-performance-wise) as that flashback scene. But I disagree about the flashback scene, of course. And they've given her way too many mini-dramatic scenes in the last couple of years (RND-monologue; the I'm-pregnant scene; the birth-scene from "Greater Good") to make me think they wouldn't also disagree. Maybe there's a difference between her acting just not being good, and her acting just not working for everyone. So what? (About only Danny ever flying solo before.) All characters start somewhere. If TPTB really felt that DL was the only thing that could ever work for Lindsay story-wise, I don't see why they would've been planning to risk her flying solo. I also don't see how they would've risked it without planning something great for her, considering how many of the DL fans seem to be there for her alone. Also, I doubt Danny's being a field-agent (in comparison to Lindsay's being a comparative lab rat...like, say, Adam) is what makes him either interesting or complex as a solo character. That's like saying you can't read a Stella thread (here, anyway, don't know much about anywhere else) without having Mac mentioned; which you can't. And I know for a fact that you're very interested in Flack and Danny separately, but a ton of your posts are always mentioning your hopes that we'll see Flack and Danny bonding/being there for each other/protecting each other/etc; and it's the same for many others. A character's relationships is a huge part of the character him/herself, and for every other character on this show it's okay to have more than a passing interest in said character's relationships. I may not like DL myself, but I guess I don't see why it should be different for its (and Lindsay's) fans, just because TPTB seem to have focused on that relationship. She is a cliche, and I agree, storywise they haven't given her much to rise above that. But I find it more than a little cool that she's come across as a much more dynamic character with much more potential to as many fans as she has, despite that -- whereas let's face it, on any other show (or even on this one), any other character written the way she's been would probably be universally hated, hot boyfriend or not. And I'm not quite convinced TPTB are completely ignorant of that. In fact, I think that's possibly what they were directly responding to when they were originally planning to split DL in S5 -- I just don't see the logic behind that choice otherwise (if they felt Lindsay had no other potential beyond being Danny's LI, and they weren't also planning to get rid of her in S5). I see layers; it's not just that she's supportive of Danny. I feel like I'm the only one who noticed her tiny hesitation in "Epilogue" before she followed Danny out of the A/V room :lol:, but I thought that was a conscious choice of the actress's; to show that the issues with "not being good at this" from S4 were still there, she just decided that this time there were bigger things to worry about. That's where her main struggle has always been, IMO, and that's where AB (again, imo) does great with adding that level of aloof reserve, and yet eagerness to get it right, to Lindsay's character. Which may be why the support-scenes seem to have come off well. A lot of her lines just wouldn't have any depth to tell us who this character is, otherwise. I know people feel her main struggle maybe should be with the impaired husband and the newborn (although Lucy's not exactly newborn anymore, is she?), and maybe it should be. But honestly, I don't think those are the things that would bother Lindsay that much. Yeah, but again, a character's relationships usually are a huge part of the character itself. Flack's friendship with Danny is a huge part of what interests me in his character, and I can't think I'm the only one who feels that way. But it's not like nothing else about Flack appeals to me. Mac's relationship with Stella, Hawkes' with Danny and Adam, etc. It happens. It doesn't mean it's the only appeal, or that the other appealing things about these characters would vanish if the relationship(s) vanished. Oh yeah, I absolutely agree it was a ratings ploy. But that probably means those younger viewers they were trying to draw in? Weren't watching NY to begin with, at least not enough to register that Danny was a breakout character, or think he was a fascinating one all on his own. So while I agree it's the relationship which drew all those fans in, I still think Anna and Carmine (or Lindsay and Danny) were on a fairly even playing field in terms of being the attracting-feature-to-the-show for those viewers. Yeah, I agree that Lindsay's not being local was probably meant to be a huge draw as well...I don't think that's specific to Lindsay though. There's a reason they sometimes make a point of highlighting the fact that Calleigh is southern (or that Frank is from Texas) on Miami; people like the idea of culture shock. Although I don't think the reason we're always reminded of Lindsay's Montana-ism is just because of that. They also remind us every other episode that Mac used to be a Marine. That's just them being repetitive. LOL, exactly :lol: But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, a character that lots of people can relate to -- even if it means the character itself isn't that well-written or a particularly strong personality. It always create fondness when a character that reminds people of themselves can still be a CSI, or a vampire slayer, or a witch, or whatever. Even if it's not particularly realistic. I mean, with Harry Potter: the author is still heavily critiqued about how most -- if not all -- her characters are famous stereotypes. But those characters in general are popular because there's always one thing in at least one HP character that a reader can find in common with themselves. I'm finding the Lindsay-thread discussion to be really great! Although I think the Stella-thread is just as interesting, even though they talk a lot about her clothes and hair as well. (And awesome! Buffy is easily one of my favourite characters too :lol: I do not understand how anyone could find her annoying.) I think it's just anything that interests people about a character gets talked about, and oftentimes that includes the character's looks as well...I know I've certainly found a lot of discussions in general CSI:NY fandom (though not here as much, admittedly ) about the hotness of Flack/Danny/Hawkes/Adam/Mac, and I'd still assume those people are big fans of those characters. With Lindsay...it's not that I've never been fond of "weaker" characters, although I'm usually not (and the "weaker" ones that I am fond of usually have some people advocating that they're actually very strong); but while I'm not too fond of the S3 storyline -- and have just wanted to scream every time she's been weak enough to go back to Danny -- I suppose I like seeing the mixture of weakness and strength. To me that means fallibility. Angell irritated me in large part because she didn't seem to have any. Peyton, in contrast, irritated me because she didn't seem to have anything but fallibility/weakness. I have yet to see how Haylen'll turn out. But I agree Lindsay's stronger side is showing more this season. Really really hope they keep it that way. Still argh :brickwall: I have seen the Internet TV coverages and the "top ten lists of best couples" and whatnot; it's just bugging me that CSI, of all shows (not even just NY, but Miami and even the original a little), is vying for that kind of coverage, and sacrificing all kinds of things to get it. Whereas other shows where the romance might fit a lot more easily -- like Law and Order SVU, for example -- don't seem to get nearly as much attention, and are still successful and come off better. That's true, but I think it definitely helps that all three -- Cath, Stella, Calleigh -- have been there since the beginning. People got to know them at the same time they were getting to know the original male cast. I do find it interesting, though, that Sara -- a divisive character if I've ever seen one :lol:, although maybe not as strong as the other three -- gets a lot of controversy even though she was also there from the beginning.