I think that while Danny has picked on Hawkes before (the 'Nerd' comment in Admissions), he didn't play any kind of joke because Hawkes wasn't a newbie. Yes new to being a CSI, but not new to the team. As for Angell, I'm almost positive she would have kicked his ass if he had tried anything with her :lol:. Adam's like a kid brother to him almost, but the teasing has been there as well, and still is. Also, Lindsay was the new girl, from somewhere vastly different from New York. She wasn't as...ballsy as Aiden, so I think it wasn't as much as case of playing a joke on her as it was seeing how well she would handle the joke.
I think Danny did it with Angell in the first episode of season 3 it was her first appearance and he said something about her being in her first crime scene alone. he was with hawkes and she told him something like shut up Messer
Oh, the N(e)R(d) thing was hilarious! :lol: And I think it's important that Danny and Hawkes were definitely friends at that point. Hawkes probably didn't get the "rookie" treatment from Danny because yeah, he wasn't really a rookie -- but the point is he never got it. Neither did Angell, really; Danny teased her about being on the scene without her training officer (I think), but didn't play a joke on her. Yeah, I too think she might've hit him if he had. And he was a little hard on Adam, especially in seasons 2 and 3, but again it stuck to teasing, and he never involved Mac. I agree that Lindsay's being from out-of-state, and replacing Aiden to boot -- that's probably what brought on the teasing from Danny. But see, I think a joke on a newbie should be something along the lines of that severed-head thing Calleigh and Eric pulled with Ryan on Miami. Or even what Ryan and Eric pulled with the new ME Tara Price last season, even though they arguably crossed a line there (and Tara got pissed). You know, something that'll cause a funny reaction without making anyone look bad. Tricking the visibly-nervous newbie into doing something you know will annoy her boss? Not so much. I mean, I did find it funny. But I could totally see how Lindsay might get irritated. (Whether or not Danny was just playing the joke, or seeing how well she'd take the joke -- not really seeing a huge difference, there....) And when she obviously doesn't take it well, he keeps up the teasing? I don't think either of them came off that mature, to be honest, so I've never seen how it's Lindsay's response that's the more immature or smug one...
yeah, danny and hawkes were as bad as eachother - danny said something like "look who's flying solo" and when angell told him to shut up, hawkes said "looks like angell got her wings" - cue muchos groaning at appalling puns.:guffaw:
I wanted to post this before the new episode, but I lost track of time :lol: I've been thinking about the last three episodes --yeah, I know, thinking too much only means trouble-- and my problem with the show. As someone else said, it's really heartbreaking to realize that maybe the time has come and I have to stop watching the show. I don't want to and if I do, it won't be an easy decision as it was with LV --the characters that remained in the show after s8 weren't my favorites and the new ones didn't attract my attention, so I lost interest very soon, even though the real "falling-out-of-love" process had begun 3 season earlier-- because I care about this characters so much that I sometimes wonder if I'm back to the 90's where dramas and procedural shows had better acting and better scripts and didn't rely in editing/camera angles/FX. You know, when audiences weren't just a demographic and the action was as important as the personal angle. NY brought this magic again, made me believe in TV shows again, and even though it pales in comparison with older shows and the writing is normally just average IMO, the actors have inhabited the characters with such a passion, that I actually root for them instead of watching the episode for the science or the crime and the occasional eye-candy. I'm rooting for Danny, Flack, Hawkes, Adam, Sid and -occasionally- Stella. I wanna know when the case is affecting them, when they are having a bad day, when they feel like Superman. I want more tidbits of information about their personal lives outside work. I wan't Danny/Flack scenes at work and outside work, I want Stella and Mac having a coffee or a beer and discussing things at the lab as friends --only please, no romantic feelings involved. I want more personal moments for Hawkes, Adam and Sid. I don't even care if this means that I'm going to be subjected to more Lindsay and Mac, as long as the characters take the main focus again. After the debacle that was S5, I guess I need to reconcile with the characters, specially the most affected by the ill conceived storylines, Danny and Stella. Danny because he's tied forever not to a wheelchair, but to a dead weight in the form of a wife. And Stella because after the laughably cheesy end to her major plotline, I need her to be Stella again, a supportive and encouraging but also firm friend. The fact that so far she isn't reaching to Danny and Flack, for whom she's been there before, is more than disappointing. Now onto DL. Let me say it again: I'm totally and utterly sorry that I asked for this, for a stepford Lindsay. I should've known better . I'm just going to outline the most important problems I'm seeing this season with DL as I don't wanna bore the rest of the forum with long dissertations: - From what I see, Danny is being used AGAIN to prop Lindsay. The wheelchair storyline only seems to exist to make Lindsay seem useful and positive and have her doing something else than being pregnant, giving birth and reciting lab results. She's now a likeable character because she's being extremely supportive to Danny. The operative word being "Danny". She's a lost cause. I wouldn't mind if she trips and falls into the Black Hole of Continuity because frankly, she's better there. Her screentime could be used to give other characters more chances, even --I can't believe I'm saying this -- Haylen. - Lindsay is nothing more than Danny better half --the better part is debatable--, so any tiny bit of development she has, is because she's Danny's insert-relationship-here. That's what I call an expendable character and I've actually lost any faith in the writers. They had their golden opportunity to show something more about Lindsay and they took the easiest way: paint her in a positive light and made the audience forget about her past flaws. Everybody should be happy now, since she's only bringing the positive. Those that were fed up of Lindsay thanks to S4 and partly S5, have no reason to dislike her now, since her presence is everything but conflicting. And those that have always liked her, have even more reasons now. Case closed. - Lindsay is now the voice of reason, she didn't want to marry Danny because she didn't trust him --probably not him, but his judgement--, but eventually she gave him an opportunity. How generous and considerate of her, that she still loves him after all he has put her through --I know so many Lindsay fans that believe that even though Danny didn't technically cheat on her, he's still at fault for misleading her at least, hell even my boyfriend who doesn't like Lindsay sides with her. So basically Lindsay is a saint. She was in s5 when she agreed to marry Danny against all odds, and she's now when she's at his side and her own problems and doubts have disappeared forever, so she can focus on being the perfect wife. My only problem with this scenario --and I've already commented on this so much that I'm beginning to get bored with myself-- is that the transition has been so smooth and so neat that it feels like the writers gave up on Lindsay and decided that from now on she won't have any conflict or drama. I was hoping that at least they could drop some hints so we could see the pain behind the brave front she's putting on, but either Anna can't convey this subtlety or the writers don't give a damn. I think it's a mixture of both. I hope after tonight's episode I'm feeling a little more optimistic, because as of now, I'm beginning to think that Danny is never going to be the vibrant character that made me watch the show in the first place. Edit: - I can't believe that I dread every time I see Danny in screen, because I know Lindsay will be there and we'll be subjected to another nauseating all-is-well-in-Messer-land moment. The same Danny that I was anxious to see every episode, just until the last part of S5. If that's not character assassination, I don't know what it is. Edit 2: - And don't forget something that's been widely debated here and in other forums: her pregnancy was almost always seen through Danny's eyes --except for the exchange with Stella in the hospital-- so she was even deprived of such an important change and storyline for a character. Talk about faith in the actress/character. - I don't usually believe in Jump The Shark moments, as shows tend to deflate when a main character leaves or a major change is imposed, and this isn't something that the writers could've known or prevent, so it's not really their fault that a show suffers from such a change. But when a bad storyline is written without being necessary or if the outcome could cause more damage than good, like Lindsay's pregnancy did, I'm afraid this could be a JTS moment in the long term, and even though I've been hoping since "The Box" that the writers could actually salvage that one, this season so far is proving that I wasn't wrong in my assessment. They've just changed the show forever and assassinated the most fascinating character with a simple decision that was easily prevented. And to be fair, they also ended any chance that Lindsay had to be on her own. Two birds, one stone. Sad, so sad.
I feel like I'm at a slight disadvantage since I've seen the newest episode, but I believe most things still apply, so I'm gonna go ahead I'm not too pleased about either Danny or Lindsay solely being restricted to the DL-wheelchair-Lucy-etc storyline, either. That I totally agree with -- I'm beyond pissed. (Although I do feel hope, because I thought it was clear in 6.04 that she's not solely concerned with what Danny's going through.) But I really have to quote your exact words from about a month ago: Maybe unnecessary, I can guess that you remember your own post ^^;; :lol: But it's not just that you asked for a stepford Lindsay. It's that you (and really, not just you -- tons and tons of people, all over the fandom, including me) asked for a supportive one who wouldn't play the victim again. So I guess what I'm really not understanding is how Lindsay's creating conflict/being the victim and not being supportive of Danny would've been the nail in her coffin -- but her supporting him and putting her issues aside is also the nail in her coffin. TPTB have shown her grown over the years; they've shown her dealing with Danny (although not with him being difficult, but honestly, I'd rather avoid the DL-drama than have to watch it, just my opinion); they've shown her dealing with the things she avoided in Season 4. How is that making us forget about her past behaviour? That's showing the exact growth most people were looking for, and hoping to see. Of course I'm pissed that they're giving her very little time outside of Danny :scream: But I'm not exactly going to complain that they've been showing her as a compassionate person, even if it is just with Danny, because that's the side of her Lindsay-fans have always seen, and this is just a clearer instance of it coming out so that others can see it. It's not that we have more reason to like her now. It's the exact. Same. Reason we've always liked her. And personally, I don't see how the writers just don't care about her character because they're showing Lindsay as a "saint", instead of showing her being a horrible person during Danny's crisis -- thus creating conflict. Yeah, I know you also asked last month for Lindsay to be shown creating a bond with someone other than Danny. Believe me, I definitely get that. I've been asking the same thing for what feels like years now. I would kill to see that. But I'm not giving up hope on ever seeing it, especially not four episodes into S6.
I can't speak for anybody else, but the problem I'm having with the New Lindsay is that she seems like, well, a new Lindsay - not a changed version of the same character I've been headdesking over for the past four seasons. She's suddenly a different person - a person who might be inoffensive overall, perhaps, but somehow it doesn't feel like character growth to me. It just feels like they decided she should be Super!Wifey/Mommy now and ignored a lot of what went on in the past in order to accommodate that. *shrug*
^ I get that, but for anyone who hasn't really considered or analyzed Lindsay's character in those same four years -- beyond registering what she's doing to annoy them that week -- I think S6!Lindsay would easily come off as a "new" Lindsay. Of course, I haven't exactly looked through every past thread on this board, so I'm not totally sure. But I have noticed that a lot of people tend to entirely miss the moments like the one from S5's "Rush to Judgment" (where Lindsay gave that vic's wife those flowers after the case is over) or from "Party's Over" (where she was literally the only one who supported Danny's decision not to show up at work)...her more compassionate moments, in other words...and instead focus on the ones like the "I know you" line from "The Box", or how she didn't give Danny a reason for her "no" in "The Triangle" until he chased her down. Which is fair -- everyone notices what they notice, of course. But if the character's been growing in the moments that have been going unnoticed by some, then when she finally gets there it's clearly going to seem like the growth came out of nowhere. But that doesn't exactly mean that it did. This certainly isn't the first time Lindsay's been completely supportive of Danny, even if she pushes aside her own sentiments to do it (she was at work during that day in "The Party's Over", which I assume means she didn't support him to the extent of feeling he was totally doing the right thing, and she should do the same).
I certainly don't think Fay or anyone else has neglected to "consider" or "analyze" Lindsay's character. In fact it's only if we've done that when we can say if Lindsay has seemed like a completely different character than in the past four seasons. And people have given her character credit when we've felt she's deserved it. The problem for some of us is that even when Lindsay is supposed to be likeable/sypathetic/compassionate, etc, we find Anna Belknap's acting so sub-par that she never really comes off that way. I don't really think it's fair to make a sweeping generalization that people "miss" things or focus on the negatives and ignore the positives; just as I'm guessing you would say it wouldn't be fair to say people who like Lindsay are "missing" things and focusing on the positives and ignoring the negatives.
I'm not denying that Lindsay might have had 'moments' (how well they were portrayed is a different issue, but I'm not denying that she had them) - my issue is that a few scattered moments over the course of multiple seasons does not justify Lindsay suddenly acting the way she has been this season. She can suddenly not only deal with Danny's issues - she can support him 110%, give him pep talks, pretty much single-handedly raise their child, pull her weight at work (with nothing but a Whitesnake t-shirt to indicate that she doesn't have time for laundry), and just generally be a completely calm, supportive, happy and well-adjusted character all of the time. There's 'growth', and then there's the developmental equivalent of magically aging a baby 6 months - just because we saw hints of something happening doesn't mean they didn't make one hell of a leap to get to the end result. This show seems content to skim over a lot of things they should devote time to, but I just think they skipped a lot of the growing process to make her Super!Monroe this season. I can't control what other people see or assume any more than other people can control what I see or assume. *shrug* Whether I love or hate Lindsay doesn't negate the way I view her character growth (or lack thereof).
Then how is she coming off that way now? And what's causing the huge difference? Aside from some of the actual lines Lindsay has been getting (and quite honestly, not many of even those are widely different from lines she's had before), I'm not seeing a huge difference in the writing for Lindsay's character; but I know that writing -- and Anna's portrayals -- have been interpreted by others differently, so I'm not seeing where the writers, or even the actress, have made a huge change. What exactly makes the current situation (Lindsay's support) so different from when Lindsay was supporting him in "Party's Over"? Sorry if that's what I did. I guess I'm just not seeing how, if the positives are taken into context, Lindsay's coming off as an entirely new person. She's been concerned for people before, and in S5 she's been supportive of Danny and that vic's wife from "Rush to Judgment"; reached out in a way she's rarely done before. Nothing on this scale, of course, but I still can't see what exactly she's doing differently now.
I think it's a huge leap to say it's natual growth to go from supporting one of her husband's decisions (to stay out with the "Blue Flu") and giving flowers to one vic's wife to carying the weight of her husband's injury, raising their child and being on top of her game at work and still having a sunny outlook and disposition. She went from isolated instances of being compassionate interspersed with more instances of being completely unsympathetic to SuperSpecialPerfect!Lindsay.
Going to post again, because I just saw Faylinn's post and I don't think I should just edit my first one Okay, I suppose I can see how interpretation might also play into "new" Lindsay. I don't want to make any more generalizations, but I guess if Lindsay were more like the one we've seen in previous seasons, she should be whiny/unprofessional/snappy/[insert adjective here] in a scenario like this. But the fact is that Lindsay has taken on loads of work before, has been shown to multitask. She's certainly shown to be calm, supportive, and happy before. And tends only to get whiny/unprofessional/snappy/etc when something or someone is hurting her feelings (can't think of a better way to put it). There's an important distinction to be made there. Danny's being in a wheelchair sucks, but Lindsay's clearly not in emotional pain over it, and Danny hasn't hurt her feelings. In fact, the one time we she has gotten kind of sullen and moody during this storyline -- in "Epilogue", when Stella had to say her name twice to get her attention -- was directly after she'd found out Danny lied to her. I'm seeing consistency. Yeah, maybe they didn't focus as much on Lindsay's growing process as they should have. But I'm still seeing a direct parallel to what she did in "The Party's Over", and as for her attitude -- she isn't exactly known for her cynicism; she's been unrealistically upbeat and optimistic before. Putting it all together at once like this is probably what's causing the weirdness, but except for her new ability to "say all the right words", I'm not seeing anything that TPTB pulled out of thin air in regards to Lindsay's character. But again, I really am sorry if I generalized.
I'm remembering exactly one instance from the period between "Party's Over" and Season 6 where Lindsay might've even had a reason to appear unsympathetic: and that's when she snapped at Adam during labour (more than a little different to looking the other way or getting irritated when her husband's in a wheelchair). Did she even do anything in that period besides accept Danny's proposal, have the baby and be sad over Angell (and coincidentally, give the team a pep talk in that ep)? She didn't. But that's exactly what I'm talking about.
She didn't do anything in S5, that's right. But that doesn't negate what she did in the past seasons. We're not just talking about growth from S5 to S6. We're talking about the whole series. To go from largely unsympathetic, to basically a non entity to Super!Lindsay is a complete change in the character in a short amount of time. And with that I'm going to bow out since this is an episode thread and not a Lindsay/Anna thread.