Grade "Lat 40 47'N/Long 73 58'W"

[Top41]

i was quite surprised that cliff didn't realise about flack - i thought maybe he did but decided not to push it.

Agreed. I think this goes to Flack being a guy who holds people at arm's length. He just doesn't let people in. The one person who really should push with Flack, the one person whose own walls Flack has more or less gotten through is Danny, but Danny's dealing with his own issues now and probably doesn't realize how bad off Flack is. Have they even shared a scene yet this season? I think that Cliff and Mac both don't feel close enough to Flack to push with him. And Flack does have a pretty confident way of saying, "I'm fine." The way he says it, you half believe him--or at least feel like there isn't really another option.

yeah, but i think they meant recent as opposed to antique, although as mac said "bday" and "4ever" are really quite recent.

Which makes me wonder if the girl really did give it to him--and then died or left him, which is what set off the crazy.

I didn't even think about the fact that no one had changed clothes in this episode...but yeah, that was definitely weird. Especially with how quickly it means Haylen ended up getting hired and working in the lab on a presumably high-profile case (with no prior job experience :wtf:. That was very Mary-Sue, even for CSI:NY. In the height of Lindsay's Mary-Sue days, they at least acknowledged she was a rookie.). Don't they have to give her basic job training or anything like that?

Lindsay was a supposed blood splatter expert who was working a solo case in her third episode. She was every bit the Mary Sue that Haylen is--and at least Haylen doesn't (yet) have the "poor me"/victim complex that made Lindsay unbearable as time went on. Haylen is definitely a Mary Sue, but no more or less than Lindsay was. Haylen's voice is more irritating, but so far it seems Sarah Carter is at least a decent actress.

 

[EngleBarn]

Okay, I haven't exactly read all the gradings, but I liked the episode all in all.

The whole time jump, not so much 10 months? Assuming that at least half of this time has passed after season 6 started, (And the rest in the end of season 5, between GFD and pay up) We can be pretty sure that they're gonna take the Adam/Stella thing no further (If we could count on time as a concept in CSI.)
It just bugs me.

I still don't like Haylen, but boy, did I love Adams comment about her as a cute but evil job-stealing blonde. Adorable.

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by Top41:
Lindsay was a supposed blood splatter expert who was working a solo case in her third episode. She was every bit the Mary Sue that Haylen is--and at least Haylen doesn't (yet) have the "poor me"/victim complex that made Lindsay unbearable as time went on. Haylen is definitely a Mary Sue, but no more or less than Lindsay was. Haylen's voice is more irritating, but so far it seems Sarah Carter is at least a decent actress.

CSI with at least three years of experience behind her (even if she got it out west) working a low-profile case solo ... vs. recent college-graduate with a Masters in forensics working a high profile one. Yeah, I'm going to stick with my initial analysis. I don't know where I said that Lindsay wasn't a Mary-Sue (she totally is), but her experience as a newbie in the crime lab was more believable for me. We saw her doing the grunt-level tasks (sifting through tiger crap); we saw her working the low-level cases that CSIs like Greg and Sara often complain about; we saw her being sent back to the lab during a high-profile case (Manhattan Manhunt). In Haylen's defense, Mac was pretty much guiding her the entire time they were working with the compass, but seeing as she hadn't even had job training that we saw yet, it was a bit much.

Funny how it seems this lack of a victim complex hasn't saved Haylen from being viewed as annoying/unbearable by several. Things are supposed to improve when they start showcasing her flaws, making her more realistic? IMO, they're already highlighting a big flaw of hers -- her hint of an ego -- and it's the very reason that she seems to be coming off as annoying.

And yes, both Sarah Carter and Anna Belknap are decent actresses. To each their own. I think Haylen is largely being written as a Mary Sue, but Carter is doing great with what she has to work with...which is exactly what I've always argued Belknap has done.

 

[Rad]

The most slow moving and boring case I've ever seen. CSI:NY is just a couple of episodes away from being cut off my 'to watch' list. A couple of seasons ago I couldnt get enough of it and now I just cant seem to be bothered.

There was a time when Horatio Caine used to get on my nerves with his God Complex of standing around and asking 'What do we have?'. And now Mac holds that esteemed position. How long do we have to complain that the almighty Mac is getting too irritating for words before TPTB do something about it? God! I really really miss those good old days of two cases an episode. At least then someone else had a chance to breathe. Now its just Mac, Mac, Mac!!

Haylen is rapidly taking over Lindsay's position as the most annoying character. And as Melgeo said Danny BORES me. DANNY bores me. How is this even possible?

Flack is the only interesting character at the moment. But I'm wondering if I'll still be watching this in another two months.

Shame on TPTB for not using the the full potential of such a wonderful group of talented actors. Except Mac everyone else is now relegated to the background. It just irritates me.

D

 

[talkingtocactus]

Oh dammit, I'm reminded of the mop-handle-breakage from "Blacklist" now. *facepalm* :lol: I realize Mac as a Marine could realistically be super-strong, but they used that same mop handle to pry open an elevator door. I still have to suspend my disbelief watching that scene. He could not break something that stood up to a few tons of steel at least. But they really are making him SuperMac, and that's what irks me more than the Mac-centricity. Short rant here, blow past it if preferable, but I really like Mac. He's not my number one favourites (totally plural), but imo he's easily the best CSI leader in the franchise, and that includes Grissom and Catherine. I just don't understand this need to have CSI team leaders be superhuman in their crime-fighting zeal and infallibility. I think they're wrecking Mac's character with it. You'd think they'd've learned a lesson from SuperH on Miami. Grissom managed to leave CSI Vegas as a mortal criminalist and still garner tons of respect. What happened to Grissom's idea that CSI-ing was all about impartially gathering evidence; instead of, you know, competing over who can collect/defeat the most personal nemeses in a single season?

i think you have a point - mac does seem to be turning into a superhero, which is irritating (as much as i love him), being that kind of demi-god of criminal persecution has always been horatio's territory! and grissom never went there at all from what i can remember, he was always quite self deprecating in that regard. the only thing i can wonder is whether mac is deliberately being set up as some kind of superhuman criminal putting away machine so that he can have some major crash of confidence where he realises there's something he can't do - maybe the shooting had an effect on him beyond what we're seeing (after all he's very buttoned up) and actually he's going on this "i must be superhuman" trip to try to avoid anyone realising he's having problems. god, i would love to see a mac-crashing-down-to-earth-with-a-bump scenario!

and yes, the broom handle was hilarious: 1: it broke far too neatly, no jagged edges and 2: a piece of wood that could be broken that easily would never shift a lift door even with leverage!

Agreed. I think this goes to Flack being a guy who holds people at arm's length. He just doesn't let people in. ... I think that Cliff and Mac both don't feel close enough to Flack to push with him. And Flack does have a pretty confident way of saying, "I'm fine." The way he says it, you half believe him--or at least feel like there isn't really another option.

yeah, i think all three men (flack, mac, cliff) are quite contained characters and that makes it very hard for any of them to be open (especially with eachother) about their feelings.

Which makes me wonder if the girl really did give it to him--and then died or left him, which is what set off the crazy.

yeah, that's a point - that would make sense.

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by *lisasimpson*:
i think you have a point - mac does seem to be turning into a superhero, which is irritating (as much as i love him), being that kind of demi-god of criminal persecution has always been horatio's territory! and grissom never went there at all from what i can remember, he was always quite self deprecating in that regard. the only thing i can wonder is whether mac is deliberately being set up as some kind of superhuman criminal putting away machine so that he can have some major crash of confidence where he realises there's something he can't do - maybe the shooting had an effect on him beyond what we're seeing (after all he's very buttoned up) and actually he's going on this "i must be superhuman" trip to try to avoid anyone realising he's having problems. god, i would love to see a mac-crashing-down-to-earth-with-a-bump scenario!

I like this idea much better than the idea that it might just be a ratings-ploy. If Mac were still reeling from the fact that the bar shootout wasn't at all personal despite his expectations (and that really, he didn't even get to put away either of the people who'd actually shot at the team...they both died before he could), that might explain his compulsion to find a personal insult in each case that's come his way since then. And make for a storyline that I think I'd easily be up for watching. Problem is, I think they could still handle that kind of storyline better with the two-case episodes; so the other characters aren't swallowed up by the storyline again. And the perps would really have to stop making the case personal to Mac -- I will say this for him, seeing how each criminal so far has all but hand-delivered their plots to his hand/ear/doorstep/etc, I can't blame him for taking them personally.

 

[Top41]

CSI with at least three years of experience behind her (even if she got it out west) working a low-profile case solo ... vs. recent college-graduate with a Masters in forensics working a high profile one. Yeah, I'm going to stick with my initial analysis. I don't know where I said that Lindsay wasn't a Mary-Sue (she totally is), but her experience as a newbie in the crime lab was more believable for me. We saw her doing the grunt-level tasks (sifting through tiger crap); we saw her working the low-level cases that CSIs like Greg and Sara often complain about; we saw her being sent back to the lab during a high-profile case (Manhattan Manhunt). In Haylen's defense, Mac was pretty much guiding her the entire time they were working with the compass, but seeing as she hadn't even had job training that we saw yet, it was a bit much.

Well, yeah, and to be fair, it was clear that case took top priority. He could have given her grunt work on a low level case, but he probably wanted to observe her on her first day. And just from a logistical storytelling standpoint, she probably needs to be on the same case as the team.

Funny how it seems this lack of a victim complex hasn't saved Haylen from being viewed as annoying/unbearable by several. Things are supposed to improve when they start showcasing her flaws, making her more realistic? IMO, they're already highlighting a big flaw of hers -- her hint of an ego -- and it's the very reason that she seems to be coming off as annoying.

Oh, that smugness is definitely annoying--the same way it was in Lindsay. Self-satisfaction is rarely an endearing quality.

And yes, both Sarah Carter and Anna Belknap are decent actresses. To each their own. I think Haylen is largely being written as a Mary Sue, but Carter is doing great with what she has to work with...which is exactly what I've always argued Belknap has done.

Can't agree there... Belknap is far from decent. She's in large part responsible for the bungle of the dark secret storyline. She's been handed softball material for the last season or so, which is why she's not really offending at the moment.

As for Carter, time will tell--but I think the character is supposed to be a little annoying. Coming in, getting on Adam's nerves right away (and he's a character the viewers sympathize with if there ever was one), being pushy with Mac--I think we're supposed to see her as a bit annoying. But we'll see--now that she's at the lab, I'm curious to see where it goes from there.

There was a time when Horatio Caine used to get on my nerves with his God Complex of standing around and asking 'What do we have?'. And now Mac holds that esteemed position. How long do we have to complain that the almighty Mac is getting too irritating for words before TPTB do something about it? God! I really really miss those good old days of two cases an episode. At least then someone else had a chance to breathe. Now its just Mac, Mac, Mac!!

Agreed. I'm sick of Mac making it personal every time and getting on his high horse. I do think he's saved a little bit by some shades of grey in the character--he's obviously putting his head in the sand about Flack, for instance.

Haylen is rapidly taking over Lindsay's position as the most annoying character. And as Melgeo said Danny BORES me. DANNY bores me. How is this even possible?

They've taken a lot of passion out of the character. And it's not even that he's downtrodden--all he cares about these days it seems is being a husband and a father. That's kind of boring after a while. It's sweet, it's cute... but at the end of the day, Danny's damage and issues really made him fascinating. Trying to make him the perfect husband and father is just making him dull.

 

[talkingtocactus]

I like this idea much better than the idea that it might just be a ratings-ploy. If Mac were still reeling from the fact that the bar shootout wasn't at all personal despite his expectations (and that really, he didn't even get to put away either of the people who'd actually shot at the team...they both died before he could), that might explain his compulsion to find a personal insult in each case that's come his way since then. And make for a storyline that I think I'd easily be up for watching. Problem is, I think they could still handle that kind of storyline better with the two-case episodes; so the other characters aren't swallowed up by the storyline again. And the perps would really have to stop making the case personal to Mac -- I will say this for him, seeing how each criminal so far has all but hand-delivered their plots to his hand/ear/doorstep/etc, I can't blame him for taking them personally.

i can't blame him either, they do seem to have a habit of tracking him down. although, maybe he's actually turning paranoid delusional and they just want us to *think* that so that we only realise it's all in his head at the same time he does?! ok, that might be going a little bit too far...:guffaw:

i do think it's a double edged thing really - they do seem to seek him out, which i guess with his reputation makes some sense, but it also seems a shame if he then eclipses the others in terms of storytime. i'm still sticking to my theory that this is some odd kind of "pride comes before a fall" type story and actually mac is due a drop in sanity even bigger than flack's! somehow i think it's unlikely but it's a nice idea so i'm running with it

btw - i think haylen is supposed to be a bit annoying too, i actually don't think it's the actress' fault, i think the point is that she's a bit grating, but i assume that once she gets working and adam takes her down a peg or two, she might be a bit more likeable (i actually quite like her already!).

In Haylen's defense, Mac was pretty much guiding her the entire time they were working with the compass, but seeing as she hadn't even had job training that we saw yet, it was a bit much.

Well, yeah, and to be fair, it was clear that case took top priority. He could have given her grunt work on a low level case, but he probably wanted to observe her on her first day. And just from a logistical storytelling standpoint, she probably needs to be on the same case as the team.

yeah, i think in a two case system, perhaps she would've got less access to the work itself and would've been an observer, but i guess he thought that in the circumstances, the more hands the better or something.

that scene did make me laugh though - i'm still not sure whether it was magician + assistant, or housewife teaching little girl how to bake. either way i hope there's more of it, i think they make quite a good double act

 

[Kreguba]

Short rant here, blow past it if preferable, but I really like Mac. He's not my number one favourites (totally plural), but imo he's easily the best CSI leader in the franchise, and that includes Grissom and Catherine. I just don't understand this need to have CSI team leaders be superhuman in their crime-fighting zeal and infallibility. I think they're wrecking Mac's character with it. You'd think they'd've learned a lesson from SuperH on Miami. Grissom managed to leave CSI Vegas as a mortal criminalist and still garner tons of respect. What happened to Grissom's idea that CSI-ing was all about impartially gathering evidence; instead of, you know, competing over who can collect/defeat the most personal nemeses in a single season?

I agree Maya. Mac is one of my favourite characters on the show, and I know he's dedicated to his job and all that. But SuperMac, as you put it, is seriously starting to annoy me. I watched 'Manhattan Manhunt' last night, and even with Henry Darius he didn't have this sanctimonious "it's me against the world" attitude we've seen in the last few episodes.

Hopefully this is TPTB's way of showing how Mac has been affected by Jess' death, the shooting, whatever, instead of them trying to 'further develop' the character.

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by Top41:
Well, yeah, and to be fair, it was clear that case took top priority. He could have given her grunt work on a low level case, but he probably wanted to observe her on her first day. And just from a logistical storytelling standpoint, she probably needs to be on the same case as the team.

True; for Haylen it only bugged me because with the high-profile case in "Miami/NYC Nonstop", Aiden thanked Mac "for letting her work trace on the case". It's fair to assume she'd been working as Mac's CSI for longer than three hours at that point, and it seemed like such a big deal for her. I hope Mac at least found the time to give Haylen basic lab-technique training; otherwise, I can't think of a defense attorney who wouldn't instantly jump on any evidence handled/interpreted by her...

Oh, that smugness is definitely annoying--the same way it was in Lindsay. Self-satisfaction is rarely an endearing quality.

Only in new female characters, apparently. I'm trying to think of a single character on this show who hasn't been smug/self-satisfied on more than one occasion, and I'm drawing a blank (except for Flack. Maybe). For the record, I've always been able to get the self-satisfaction of each character whenever it shows up; I rarely don't find it endearing.

ETA: Nope, sorry...just found an example for Flack :lol: Also, I don't mean to imply that certain characters (or their brand of smugness) can't just rub someone the wrong way...just operating from my "if it's right/wrong for one, it's right/wrong for all" perspective, and from the fact that I genuinely do find CSI:NY smugness to be funny at the very least, regardless of which character it comes from.

Can't agree there... Belknap is far from decent. She's in large part responsible for the bungle of the dark secret storyline. She's been handed softball material for the last season or so, which is why she's not really offending at the moment.

Again, to each their own...fairly obvious that I disagree But going from the more-than-generous screentime Lindsay's been given, and from Peter Lenkov's reporting that she "did great" with the dark storyline material (from the commentary on "Silent Night" in S3 DVD set), I'm also going to wildly guess that TPTB see her as a decent actress. It doesn't make sense to keep an actress on for five years and give her a ton of screentime if she's hurting your show, contract or no. Isn't that why they shafted Kim Delaney from Miami in the first season (even though she was a regular too); because she wasn't working out?

As for Carter, time will tell--but I think the character is supposed to be a little annoying. Coming in, getting on Adam's nerves right away (and he's a character the viewers sympathize with if there ever was one), being pushy with Mac--I think we're supposed to see her as a bit annoying. But we'll see--now that she's at the lab, I'm curious to see where it goes from there.

So am I. I'm hoping they don't completely scrap the ego, because I do find it endearing myself, but she's supposed to be pushy right now; and I think she'll come across as more eager-to-learn soon enough.

 

[talkingtocactus]

I agree Maya. Mac is one of my favourite characters on the show, and I know he's dedicated to his job and all that. But SuperMac, as you put it, is seriously starting to annoy me. I watched 'Manhattan Manhunt' last night, and even with Henry Darius he didn't have this sanctimonious "it's me against the world" attitude we've seen in the last few episodes.

Hopefully this is TPTB's way of showing how Mac has been affected by Jess' death, the shooting, whatever, instead of them trying to 'further develop' the character.

i hope so too because he is my favourite character, i think he's great, but even i'm beginning to think it's stretching it to say that every single person ever has it in for him. i don't find him sanctimonious as a rule but last episode he definitely was - perhaps being reminded of his dad so soon after the shooting hit a bigger nerve than it otherwise might have? i'm definitely thinking this is his way of dealing with it - after all when they hinted that flack was going to "throw himself into his job" we all groaned because the world and his wife know that that's mac's job! maybe his getting overly involved/intense/preachy is part of him just really going for it at work so he can avoid doing/thinking about anything else. i hope so. and if it is the case, i really hope he has a crash - i would love to see that (from an acting point of view i mean, i love mac, it'd be a shame to see him miserable, but it would give gary something to do!)

 

[Top41]

True; for Haylen it only bugged me because with the high-profile case in "Miami/NYC Nonstop", Aiden thanked Mac "for letting her work trace on the case". It's fair to assume she'd been working as Mac's CSI for longer than three hours at that point, and it seemed like such a big deal for her. I hope Mac at least found the time to give Haylen basic lab-technique training; otherwise, I can't think of a defense attorney who wouldn't instantly jump on any evidence handled/interpreted by her...

Realism, thy name is not television drama, lol. They try, but I think there are some things that just slide, which is why that didn't bother me all that much.

Only in new female characters, apparently.

I thought of that, too but I think it depends on the character. I really liked Riley Adams from the get-go on CSI, and it's clear that she certainly thought highly of her skills as a CSI. She didn't come in and expect to show up others (as Haylen and Lindsay both did a bit)--she just wanted to be seen as a competent professional. I do think the tendency is to be harder on female characters, but I was on the smugness alert with Jesse Cardoza over on Miami, too, and was pleased to find him really pretty darn unassuming.

I'm trying to think of a single character on this show who hasn't been smug/self-satisfied on more than one occasion, and I'm drawing a blank (except for Flack. Maybe). For the record, I've always been able to get the self-satisfaction of each character whenever it shows up; I rarely don't find it endearing.

Well, yeah, sure--from characters we've known a while. Showing up and being smug from the get-go isn't really an endearing introduction.

Again, to each their own...fairly obvious that I disagree But going from the more-than-generous screentime Lindsay's been given, and from Peter Lenkov's reporting that she "did great" with the dark storyline material (from the commentary on "Silent Night" in S3 DVD set), I'm also going to wildly guess that TPTB see her as a decent actress.

And if they don't, they'll never, ever say otherwise. Regardless, they can think she's great--and if they really do, I wonder why she hasn't gotten a storyline since that dark secret --but I can call foul if I see a crappy performance.

It doesn't make sense to keep an actress on for five years and give her a ton of screentime if she's hurting your show, contract or no. Isn't that why they shafted Kim Delaney from Miami in the first season (even though she was a regular too); because she wasn't working out?

She's hardly had a ton of screen time--she's really been used more for a romantic storyline for another character to hook in a younger audience. I think the proof of what a bad idea that was is finally becoming evident on screen--Danny, who was one of the show's more interesting characters--is kind of boring now. Ironically, I think the Danny/Lindsay pairing is the least offensive it's ever been... but that might not be a good thing. Boring is never good for television. That happy ending that so many were calling for it kind of a snoozefest--at least with these two.

So am I. I'm hoping they don't completely scrap the ego, because I do find it endearing myself, but she's supposed to be pushy right now; and I think she'll come across as more eager-to-learn soon enough.

I'm sure she will--though that feels kind of stale to say the least. I guess I don't really see what the point of her character is. She feels like a dull combination of Lindsay and Kendall--neither of whom were all that interesting to begin with. And while Haylen might be an attempt to right the wrongs with the other two characters, I don't see why they're so hell bent on having a perky female character on the show. Is that really what's "missing" from CSI: NY? I don't think so. I'm hardly one who sits around and cries for diversity on shows all the time, but I think it's a little nutty how this show is continuing to search for a perky cute sex symbol rather than trying to create a unique character. Danny and Flack are sexy enough--the sex symbol on the show doesn't always need to be a woman. Though, of course, Stella's plenty sexy, but not in that sex kitten way I think they're trying to find. I'm digressing more than a little bit, I know. I'm not still mourning the loss of Aiden years down the road, but damn if she didn't bring something unique and diverse to the table.

 

[ladyhunter]

I finished watching the whole episodes.

I have to stand up here and say I liked it. I like the idea that the killer lives in the 60's. To me it's well done, again much like CSI Vegas at the beginning. It's gritty and if you just started watching CSI NY this season (like my mom) I can see how it would pull you in.

Yea, some of the episodes last season were WAYYY out there. The over use of technology turned me off. It all seemed so high tech. Although NY seems to be more on the cutting-edge over Vegas and I'm sure Miami sometimes it got to be too much if you know what I mean.

This case was creepy. I enjoyed it. I'm thinking that his wife has a lot to do with this whole compass thing. She can't be all that naive can she? I think I get where they are going with this also. He's deformed. Probably from some medicine his mom was given while she was pregnant with him during the 60's. Starting in the mid-60's women were sometimes not always given a medicine to ward off morning sickness. It also caused birth defects. So the killer is using the compasses to point to people who wronged him... that's just my take on the whole thing.

I'm also jumping in on the Mac debate. He was the whole reason I started watching. I like Gary and I heard it was good. Mac seemed pretty reasonable, he lost his wife but didn't seem to wallow in self-pity. He had a good support system with Stella and the rest of the team. Then around season 3 he got more secure or less insecure, started dating Peyton, etc...
I think that's where the 'superhero' ness came in. He was more comfortable with himself and his job. He was now secure, not totally lost over Claire's death and thus became SUPER MAC.

I have to agree, I do want to see him fall, to know he's not superhuman and knowing Gary he'll be great at having Mac fall to pieces. Again, that's me since I am a fan of Mac.

Since seeing the whole episode I still give it a B-

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by CandyCoroner:
I agree Maya. Mac is one of my favourite characters on the show, and I know he's dedicated to his job and all that. But SuperMac, as you put it, is seriously starting to annoy me. I watched 'Manhattan Manhunt' last night, and even with Henry Darius he didn't have this sanctimonious "it's me against the world" attitude we've seen in the last few episodes.

Henry Darius, I almost forgot about Mac's attitude with that case! He may not have been the epitome of sympathy, but back then he seemed to focus more on Darius himself, and the fact that he was an unstable serial killer...rather than focusing on Darius being an unstable serial killer that was annoying him personally. They need to bring that back. I don't know if we've seen Mac with that particular attitude toward serial killers since the Clay Dobson case in S3.

Originally Posted by Top41:
I thought of that, too but I think it depends on the character. I really liked Riley Adams from the get-go on CSI, and it's clear that she certainly thought highly of her skills as a CSI. She didn't come in and expect to show up others (as Haylen and Lindsay both did a bit)--she just wanted to be seen as a competent professional. I do think the tendency is to be harder on female characters, but I was on the smugness alert with Jesse Cardoza over on Miami, too, and was pleased to find him really pretty darn unassuming.

Oh, I found Jesse and Riley charming too. But I honestly didn't have a problem with any of the characters' ego because quite frankly, they're all meant to be good, skilled criminalists (even Haylen, not yet a criminalist, seems to really know her stuff). They deserve to be a little proud of that fact, especially when it seems that people are questioning how good or skilled they are.

I did find Riley a little show-off-y, but it fit because she was already being passed over by the others like they thought she was a know-nothing rookie. It's the same reason I think it fit with Lindsay, seeing as I only remember her being smug with/trying to show up the one character who was looking down on her (if I'm wrong and she was trying to show up anyone else, please point it out :lol. With Haylen...well, I give her credit because she said she wasn't purposely trying to show up Adam, and because she's the single character we've seen who's actually gone to Mac for a job; rather than having Mac come to her.

And lol, Jesse had no ego whatsoever.

And if they don't, they'll never, ever say otherwise. Regardless, they can think she's great--and if they really do, I wonder why she hasn't gotten a storyline since that dark secret --but I can call foul if I see a crappy performance.

Well, they don't have to say she's great when it's really not necessary (the "Silent Night" commentary was far more focused on the workings of the deaf-teenager case and the ice-skating case). But yeah, an opinion is an opinion, so it's fair to call crappy performance iyo

Although IMO, she hasn't had a storyline since the dark secret because the Black Hole of Continuity isn't the only black hole in CSI:NY-verse. It's right up there with the Black Hole of DL, which swallows up storylines and screentime alike (you mentioned yourself how Danny's become boring, basically because his near-paralysis has been relegated to DL's newest brand of relationship counselling. And even much of Lindsay's S3 storyline seemed largely designed to fit a DL agenda).

She's hardly had a ton of screen time--she's really been used more for a romantic storyline for another character to hook in a younger audience. I think the proof of what a bad idea that was is finally becoming evident on screen--Danny, who was one of the show's more interesting characters--is kind of boring now. Ironically, I think the Danny/Lindsay pairing is the least offensive it's ever been... but that might not be a good thing. Boring is never good for television. That happy ending that so many were calling for it kind of a snoozefest--at least with these two.

That doesn't really answer my question. Kim Delaney left Miami because she wasn't working out (so I've heard), and if Belknap wasn't either, I can't see why she wouldn't have gone the same way. Furthermore, Miami fans have been complaining for literally years on end now about the comparative lack of screentime Eva La Rue (and to some extent, Jonathan Togo) have been getting on the show -- and they're both not only great actors, but also very well-known ones, at least compared to Anna Belknap. I of course have no clue why they're getting so little screentime, but we haven't seen anything close to the same extent as far as Belknap is concerned...which I would expect to, if she was really an actress best kept in the background.

Totally agree about the snoozefest that is DL though. Definitely another black hole.

I'm sure she will--though that feels kind of stale to say the least. I guess I don't really see what the point of her character is. She feels like a dull combination of Lindsay and Kendall--neither of whom were all that interesting to begin with. And while Haylen might be an attempt to right the wrongs with the other two characters, I don't see why they're so hell bent on having a perky female character on the show. Is that really what's "missing" from CSI: NY? I don't think so. I'm hardly one who sits around and cries for diversity on shows all the time, but I think it's a little nutty how this show is continuing to search for a perky cute sex symbol rather than trying to create a unique character. Danny and Flack are sexy enough--the sex symbol on the show doesn't always need to be a woman. Though, of course, Stella's plenty sexy, but not in that sex kitten way I think they're trying to find. I'm digressing more than a little bit, I know. I'm not still mourning the loss of Aiden years down the road, but damn if she didn't bring something unique and diverse to the table.

Actually, I have the same issue about the addition of a new character in general....they haven't really put much thought and depth into any of the characters they've added since the original cast, IMO (I love Lindsay a lot now, but the depth I see in her character seems to have come about more by accident than on purpose, at least on the part of the writers). Aiden was well rounded and unique, and flawed and far from being a Mary Sue even as she was sexy. Haylen was written as a fanficcy stereotype from the get-go, and much as I like the flaws I see in her, her two appearances haven't done much to take her away from that (neither has her name :shifty: Ugh.)

Originally Posted by candyhunter:
I'm also jumping in on the Mac debate. He was the whole reason I started watching. I like Gary and I heard it was good. Mac seemed pretty reasonable, he lost his wife but didn't seem to wallow in self-pity. He had a good support system with Stella and the rest of the team. Then around season 3 he got more secure or less insecure, started dating Peyton, etc...
I think that's where the 'superhero' ness came in. He was more comfortable with himself and his job. He was now secure, not totally lost over Claire's death and thus became SUPER MAC.

I have to agree, I do want to see him fall, to know he's not superhuman and knowing Gary he'll be great at having Mac fall to pieces. Again, that's me since I am a fan of Mac.

No, I agree; I really liked it in "Thing About Heroes" where Mac kind of seemed drained after the case, because it felt like he'd recognized his failings (especially with Drew screaming at him that he wasn't a hero); but they got rid of that dynamic in him. And I don't like it so much.

 

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Oh, I found Jesse and Riley charming too. But I honestly didn't have a problem with any of the characters' ego because quite frankly, they're all meant to be good, skilled criminalists (even Haylen, not yet a criminalist, seems to really know her stuff). They deserve to be a little proud of that fact, especially when it seems that people are questioning how good or skilled they are.

Well, sure. I'm good at what I do--I bet you're good at what you do, too. Doesn't give someone a license to brag or show off in front of co-workers. Or if it does, it might make said show-off a bit grating to those co-workers.

I did find Riley a little show-off-y, but it fit because she was already being passed over by the others like they thought she was a know-nothing rookie. It's the same reason I think it fit with Lindsay, seeing as I only remember her being smug with/trying to show up the one character who was looking down on her (if I'm wrong and she was trying to show up anyone else, please point it out :lol. With Haylen...well, I give her credit because she said she wasn't purposely trying to show up Adam, and because she's the single character we've seen who's actually gone to Mac for a job; rather than having Mac come to her.

Are you talking about the cop in "Dancing with the Fishes"? That was fine, but Lindsay also tried to show up Danny and has been smarmy with Adam, too.

But yeah, I give Haylen credit for that, too--and I think she pointed out that the print wouldn't have shown up when Adam was there. It was more her "I'm going to push to get in there, regardless of you telling me it's your job I'm after" attitude that didn't sit well with me.

And lol, Jesse had no ego whatsoever.

I know! It's so refreshing.

Well, they don't have to say she's great when it's really not necessary (the "Silent Night" commentary was far more focused on the workings of the deaf-teenager case and the ice-skating case). But yeah, an opinion is an opinion, so it's fair to call crappy performance iyo

She was so awful in "Silent Night." I'm sure they had to talk around that.

Although IMO, she hasn't had a storyline since the dark secret because the Black Hole of Continuity isn't the only black hole in CSI:NY-verse. It's right up there with the Black Hole of DL, which swallows up storylines and screentime alike (you mentioned yourself how Danny's become boring, basically because his near-paralysis has been relegated to DL's newest brand of relationship counselling. And even much of Lindsay's S3 storyline seemed largely designed to fit a DL agenda).

The pairing has definitely been to the detriment of Danny's character development, though to be fair, the writers have tried to move away from it, in season four and in season five, before Anna's pregnancy announcement. But for Lindsay, it's served to mask a lot of Anna's weaknesses, by keeping her in the shadow of a stronger character/actor, and by giving her a storyline that because it's a romance, is by default popular for people looking for that from their crime dramas.

That doesn't really answer my question. Kim Delaney left Miami because she wasn't working out (so I've heard), and if Belknap wasn't either, I can't see why she wouldn't have gone the same way. Furthermore, Miami fans have been complaining for literally years on end now about the comparative lack of screentime Eva La Rue (and to some extent, Jonathan Togo) have been getting on the show -- and they're both not only great actors, but also very well-known ones, at least compared to Anna Belknap. I of course have no clue why they're getting so little screentime, but we haven't seen anything close to the same extent as far as Belknap is concerned...which I would expect to, if she was really an actress best kept in the background.

Answering your question is tough, without delving into the logistics of the TV biz and having major insider knowledge. I will say there are many, many factors as to why an actor is kept on a show or why an actor is let go. Jennifer Morrison was just let go from House--I'm pretty sure that's got nothing to do with her performance. The majority of the screen time Anna has is devoted to DL, which someone--not necessarily the writers (the network has way more clout )--thinks is popular. Anna could suck to the high heavens, but if someone thinks she's bringing in a demo audience (18-49), good luck getting rid of her.

But that's all supposition, and out of scope at that, which is why I didn't really answer your question before. I can't answer that question, not without knowing the inner workings of the show and all the factors that go into it--and if I did, I definitely couldn't answer your question on an internet forum. :lol: So at the end of the day, all I know is what I see: that Anna is a mediocre actress at best--and sometimes far worse than that--but that the show utilizes her to pimp out Danny as some sort of dreamy romantic boyfriend/husband-type.

Actually, I have the same issue about the addition of a new character in general....they haven't really put much thought and depth into any of the characters they've added since the original cast, IMO (I love Lindsay a lot now, but the depth I see in her character seems to have come about more by accident than on purpose, at least on the part of the writers). Aiden was well rounded and unique, and flawed and far from being a Mary Sue even as she was sexy. Haylen was written as a fanficcy stereotype from the get-go, and much as I like the flaws I see in her, her two appearances haven't done much to take her away from that (neither has her name :shifty: Ugh.)

That name is really the worst thing about her. It's terrible. Wretched. Awful. :lol: But yeah, Aiden was a real person. A character can be sexy and sexual and not be a Mary Sue. Like you said, it doesn't feel like a lot of thought has been put into the character. Or maybe not a lot of deep thought--she does feel like a hodge podge of stereotypes right now. Hopefully given time, she'll evolve into something more interesting. Most people who dislike Lindsay certainly gave her most of season two to turn into a decent character--hopefully Haylen will get the same chance.