Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

[doublehelix]

Some very interesting point made on this thread.
Like many, I agree that this was an important and necessary thread

GOOD JOB MJ!!

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One point was made was about the the TV Guide interview with EP and AR regarding E/C? How many other times have we seen these entertainment news shows run segments on the possible union of Calleigh and Eric. I seem to remember about three. There have probably been more.
As some previous person said, it is as if Calleigh and Eric are being shoved down our throat, if we like it or not.

MaddyAnn made an interesting point about team dynamics. Could it be that this is why this whole situation is coming to a head mid-season? The decision to "hook-up" becomes a bad one? If I tend to remember, when Eric and Natalia were dating, everyone knew but nobody really seemed to care.

If it were possible I would highly reccomend to the E/C fans that, if they could, watch some of the recent scenes (what few there are) that Eric and Nat have had together. You may see what we in the EDeN school see. He seems more relaxed, confident, humorous, even chatty. This is quite the contrast to the seemingly needy, over-emotional, and self-conscious person he appears to transform to when he's around Calleigh. One side seems to come out when he's around Natalia and another side appears when he's around Calleigh. This is part of the E/C deal that we in the EDeN school find so ridiculous.

Also let me say that I don't want to insult anyone. I think we should all do our best to keep things civil. However, I am somewhat tired of biting the proverbial tongue when the issue of various ships come up or of the state of the show's stories, plotlines and subplot lines. I think TPTB would be wise to pay attention to this thread.


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[GregNickRyanFan]

Something that really bothers me is that other characters, not E/C, who should be present in certain scenes, are not. The one that jumps to mind is Calleigh's hospital scene. Sure, it made sense to throw an E/C moment in there, but there was so much focus on it that we never even saw the rest of the team visit her!

Yeah, that bugged me too. Ryan was at that scene with her and definitely should have been shown visiting her. I mean, Horatio was at the hospital, but never went into the room to see her. He was just sort of watching over her from outside the room which was fine. But, Ryan definitely should have come to visit her, especially given the fact that the two of them seem to be really good friends. I mean, besides Eric, he's the one on the team she's closest to.

I'd love for there to be a way to have the romance without it becoming a problem.

Yes, for example CSI NY with Flack/Angell. We've only seen little hints that they liked each other up until the ep where he kissed her at the end of the ep. An ep or two later, a random cop/agent mentioned her having a less than professional relationship with Flack. That was the last time their relationship was even brought up and it's been several eps since then.

 

[Ginnna]

Something that really bothers me is that other characters, not E/C, who should be present in certain scenes, are not. The one that jumps to mind is Calleigh's hospital scene. Sure, it made sense to throw an E/C moment in there, but there was so much focus on it that we never even saw the rest of the team visit her!

Yeah, that bugged me too. Ryan was at that scene with her and definitely should have been shown visiting her. I mean, Horatio was at the hospital, but never went into the room to see her. He was just sort of watching over her from outside the room which was fine. But, Ryan definitely should have come to visit her, especially given the fact that the two of them seem to be really good friends. I mean, besides Eric, he's the one on the team she's closest to.

I'd love for there to be a way to have the romance without it becoming a problem.

Yes, for example CSI NY with Flack/Angell. We've only seen little hints that they liked each other up until the ep where he kissed her at the end of the ep. An ep or two later, a random cop/agent mentioned her having a less than professional relationship with Flack. That was the last time their relationship was even brought up and it's been several eps since then.

I actually agree with you on both counts. I was kind of pissed that we didn't see ANYONE else, other than Delko, at the hospital (besides H, and he only kind of hovered at a distance). I guess a case could be made that Ryan was super busy concentrating on the case the entire time that she was unconscious (a condition which didn't seem to last very long at all), but where was Natalia? Frank? Maxine? ANYBODY else? I didn't even see Alexx pop in to check on Calleigh after she was stabalized. Their absence doesn't make me any less fond of the E/C relationship... but it IS something I thought the writers got wrong.

And while I am a fan of this ship, I hope that things cool down after sweeps. I really do watch CSI Miami to see CSI Miami, not the "Eric/Calleigh Show". I'd still like little moments and hints of what's going on, but the focus should rightly return to the cases, the criminals, the forensics, etc. Well, actually, I'd like to see more team interaction, so let's hope that they bring back that aspect too.

 

[Florry86]

First of all thank you so much again mjszud for opening this much need thread :thumbsup:

Something that really bothers me is that other characters, not E/C, who should be present in certain scenes, are not. The one that jumps to mind is Calleigh's hospital scene. Sure, it made sense to throw an E/C moment in there, but there was so much focus on it that we never even saw the rest of the team visit her!

Yeah, that bugged me too. Ryan was at that scene with her and definitely should have been shown visiting her. I mean, Horatio was at the hospital, but never went into the room to see her. He was just sort of watching over her from outside the room which was fine. But, Ryan definitely should have come to visit her, especially given the fact that the two of them seem to be really good friends. I mean, besides Eric, he's the one on the team she's closest to.

I'd love for there to be a way to have the romance without it becoming a problem.

Yes, for example CSI NY with Flack/Angell. We've only seen little hints that they liked each other up until the ep where he kissed her at the end of the ep. An ep or two later, a random cop/agent mentioned her having a less than professional relationship with Flack. That was the last time their relationship was even brought up and it's been several eps since then.

That's exactly why I don't like what's going on with E/C.

I still think that "Smoke gest in your CSIs" kinda proved how this relationship is ruining any team interaction.
Maybe Ryan was busy investigating, but I still find it pretty disgusting that when he called Delko he asked him whether he was still at the hospital, but he never asked how was she. I mean gosh he was in the fire with her & I'm pretty sure he noticed she wasn't fine at all (she was already coughing when they got out from the house). Not to mention that he was truely concerned when she didn't want to jump off without the body. I find it pretty unrealistic not to mention that I didn't like at all the fact he didn't even ask whether she was fine or how she was.

Also Natalia disappointed me in this episode (well TPTB disappointed me with her). I mean she never asked how was she & she never showed any concern. I know she wasn't in the fire with Calleigh, but still she could have asked something. It wouldn't have ruined the epsiode at all and it wasn't that much.
Look at the scene at that Doc's house. IMHO, it could have been like this:

N: wow this place is creepy. Hey Ryan? You're ok?
R: Yeah I am fine.
N: have you got any news on Cal?
R: nah I just called Delko, but she's still not breathing on her own.
N: she'll get through
R: I hope so. I hope so...

See? It's not that much & it wouldn't have ruined that scene. IMO, it was the first thing everybody should have done in an episode like this.

As for Alexx, I think she was just the ER M.D., but still it would have been a really nice touch to show here another time when Calleigh woke up. Also the idea of Alexx being called b/c Cal just woke up & then Alexx extubating her. It wasn't that much.

I still think that a scene with the whole team (Alexx included) enjoying Cal's presence would have been NICE.

But no! They just had to show how Eric was concerned about her? And the others?
It already happened in "Stand Your Ground" & it kinda happened in "All In" when he drove her home, but I really hoped they wouldn't have made the same mistake.

And yeah, I think it ruins the whole team dynamic & I really hope we won't have to see E/C moments in every single episode b/c that's not how realationships should work on a show like CSI:Miami.

I haven't seen any relationship advertised and focused on as it's actually happening with E/C

 

[the_bullet_girl]

Wow! I was not expecting to see a thread like this pop up, generally people are quite diplomatic when it comes to ships but hey, I'm glad its here. Not everyone is happy with E/C and we should definitely be able to voice why we don't like them.

I hope, I don't repeat other people's opinions because I haven't gotten the chance to read through this thread completely yet.

Firstly, the thing that annoys me most about the E/C pairing is the change in Calleigh's character. I don't know if anyone else agrees but I think this entire SL has made her more 'mushy' and less like herself. It's not in her character for her to show as much emotion as she has done this season and I like the cold, hardass Calleigh! :lol: The Calleigh that has issues with men because of her father, the Calleigh that doesn't discuss her personal life at work...etc etc.

Secondly, this pairing changes everything within the team. It already has, because the SL is so focused on them and Eric in particular, we're missing out on other characters like Natalia and even Ryan has gotten less screen time. We all remember how touchy feely Eric and Natalia were back in S4, I really don't want to see this with E/C because, again, it's not Calleigh's style. Also, isn't it frowned upon when coworkers date? Especially in the close context that Eric and Calleigh work? Going to scenes together etc. I can only imagine the drama this pairing will bring for both characters once Stetler gets wind of it.

Thirdly, I know most people say that this relationship has been building slowly but I honestly can say I don't see it! Not once did Calleigh show any feeling other then friendship towards Delko and all of a sudden, his feelings are revealed to her accidently from his therapists notes and now she has feelings for him? I think it all came about too fast and is being forced rather then it happening naturally. The relationship seems too forced. To me, it feels like they're both just settling with someone they have known for years and feel comfortable around. Yes, they probably do love each other on some level but I don't think Calleigh is in love with Eric. It just seems that she knows Eric's always been there for her and she can depend on him so she's settling with him because all of her other relationships failed miserably.

I can't think of more reasons at the moment but I'm sure I'll be back with more soon! lol

 

[mjszud]

I'm in total agreement. It was Calleigh's episode that really pushed it too far, IMO. It takes all of 5 seconds for a person to ask if she's ok & show a little worry, & they couldn't even manage to squeeze that in.
I don't care how much they wanted to make this the epi the one that magically made her choice for Eric; they've had the entire past 2 seasons that they've been focusing on them, so in this case it really disappointed me that TPTB used her "one of many tragedies" to again force more e/c.

What's even more frustrating is how they made this incident push her to make the decision. Exactly how many deaths does one have to encounter to make such a simple decision!?! It shouldn't be any!
What really bugs me is that Calleigh's had numerous times to make this decision if she truly felt for him, yet she never did, until this moment.....WHY? Because he was there for her? Because he put a watch on her wrist to prove he had been there? :wtf:
I can't see or feel Calleigh's love for Eric; it still doesn't seem to be there whole-heartidly or true. It's as if she's made this big jump only because he's there for her, & no one else is.
That's how I feel about it anyway, because in all honesty I've never seen anything but friendship on Calleigh's part, & I think it's rather odd that TPTB never showed exactly how she felt about him.
In most cases, you can at least get a feel for what the character is struggling with - if it's fear, uncertainty, or whatever - but with Calleigh they haven't actually shown it, or let her SAY it.

Ok, for example - GSR - you knew there was something mutual, but it was made clear on the show what was holding back Grissom. We were able to see it from his point of view.
What do we see with Calleigh? Nothing but sympathy & concern while she goes off to be with another man...for 2 years. It's just one of the big reasons that I have a very hard time buying that she's supposed to be in love with Eric now.

EDIT: I didn't see the BulletGirl's post above mine. Sorry hun, I may have repeated a few of your own opinions.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Firstly, the thing that annoys me most about the E/C pairing is the change in Calleigh's character. I don't know if anyone else agrees but I think this entire SL has made her more 'mushy' and less like herself. It's not in her character for her to show as much emotion as she has done this season and I like the cold, hardass Calleigh!

I was just watching some older interviews on Miami on the a&e website and something Emily said about her character really got me thinking. She said Calleigh is always one to be brutually honest. How honest was she with Eric when she told him that she didn't know he felt that way about her? This is what I don't get. She's known since the ep where Jake kissed her in front of Eric that Eric liked her that way. It bugs me that the writers have basically changed her character to someone who is no longer "brutually honest" (to quote Emily). she also said her character is less emotional than she herself is and is all about the job (basically what she said, can't remember the exact wording). But, they've made her very emotional as of late. She nearly cried when she was kidnapped and she cried about that man falling to his death. The old Calleigh would have been upset, but I don't think we would have seen her cry. I'm just very confused by the change. Why did they feel they had to change her character for her to be with Eric? they could have written it believably without changing her character, so that's just something I can't comprehend personally.

 

[mjszud]

You just brought up a very good point GNRfan. Calleigh isn't being honest & she hasn't been for the past 2 seasons with Jake, or with Eric. After her & Jake reconciled in 'Sunblock' - did she happen to let Eric know what was going on? Was he aware that she was practically skipping through the parking lot, hand in hand with Jake even after Eric commented that he'd switch to nights? Did Eric know that she had been waiting for Jake the whole time before his last return...probably not. Now, I could see it if, this whole time, she was just afraid that the truth (that she didn't love Eric) would hurt him & thier friendship...but...what are we supposed to be thinking here with Calleigh & her feelings?!!? What a mess.
Calleigh has always been very by-the-book, knows what she wants, & gets straight to the point...it isn't in her character to be this descieving or play mind games. It's very unappealing.

 

[CSIMandy]

I disagree about the other characters not getting much airtime. Natalia did have a good episode for herself, Calleigh did as well and in the upcoming episodes Eric and Ryan do as well. The writers are trying hard to give each character a storyline, and I've noticed they've been trying harder to have all the characters have more airtime as a team.

As for Eric and Calleigh becoming a couple, I am excited about that. I do think they've been hyped a lot but I think that's only because it's been a long wait to see them finally become a couple. I think the problem is the writers dragged it out too long, which caused some viewers to lose interest in their pairing.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I disagree about the other characters not getting much airtime. Natalia did have a good episode for herself, Calleigh did as well and in the upcoming episodes Eric and Ryan do as well. The writers are trying hard to give each character a storyline, and I've noticed they've been trying harder to have all the characters have more airtime as a team.

What ep are you referring to about Natalia? Do you mean this season the ep where she helped the woman who needed to bury her daughter? Or do you mean eps from another season? I do think the writers have tried a little harder this season, but they're still forgetting about poor Frank. :lol:

As for Eric and Calleigh becoming a couple, I am excited about that. I do think they've been hyped a lot but I think that's only because it's been a long wait to see them finally become a couple. I think the problem is the writers dragged it out too long, which caused some viewers to lose interest in their pairing.

I agree with you about it being dragged out too long. It's kind of what NY did to D/L. A lot of people lost interest in that pairing because the writers strung them along too much.

 

[Orla_Dark]

I disagree about the other characters not getting much airtime. Natalia did have a good episode for herself, Calleigh did as well and in the upcoming episodes Eric and Ryan do as well. The writers are trying hard to give each character a storyline, and I've noticed they've been trying harder to have all the characters have more airtime as a team.

As for Eric and Calleigh becoming a couple, I am excited about that. I do think they've been hyped a lot but I think that's only because it's been a long wait to see them finally become a couple. I think the problem is the writers dragged it out too long, which caused some viewers to lose interest in their pairing.

Natalia had good ep? When? I missed it? Or you mean Tipping Point, come on, it was only one ep where we saw her and Frank more then 2 minutes.

I totally agree with GNRfan and mjszud, about everything.

 

[Ginnna]

I disagree about the other characters not getting much airtime. Natalia did have a good episode for herself, Calleigh did as well and in the upcoming episodes Eric and Ryan do as well. The writers are trying hard to give each character a storyline, and I've noticed they've been trying harder to have all the characters have more airtime as a team.

What ep are you referring to about Natalia? Do you mean this season the ep where she helped the woman who needed to bury her daughter? Or do you mean eps from another season? I do think the writers have tried a little harder this season, but they're still forgetting about poor Frank. :lol:

I think they may be referring to "Darkroom". I remember that one being pretty well "Natalia-centric". It was in season 5, though. And then of course there's also "Internal Affairs". Also focused pretty heavily on Natalia, if I recall correctly.

As for Eric and Calleigh becoming a couple, I am excited about that. I do think they've been hyped a lot but I think that's only because it's been a long wait to see them finally become a couple. I think the problem is the writers dragged it out too long, which caused some viewers to lose interest in their pairing.

I agree with you about it being dragged out too long. It's kind of what NY did to D/L. A lot of people lost interest in that pairing because the writers strung them along too much.

At least now it won't be dragged out anymore. Hehe, just trying to find that silver lining. Anyway, I am ALL for putting this relationship lower on the priority list for screen time. I don't watch CSI Miami hoping to see a Grey's Anatomy type show. I'm a big fan of ships, sure, but I DO like to see them more in the background. I look to fanfic to find stories completely focused on ships instead of cases. I don't need fanfic being acted out on screen. I admit, though, it's kind of awesome to see ships come to the forefront once in a while. But only once in a while!

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

At least now it won't be dragged out anymore. Hehe, just trying to find that silver lining. Anyway, I am ALL for putting this relationship lower on the priority list for screen time. I don't watch CSI Miami hoping to see a Grey's Anatomy type show. I'm a big fan of ships, sure, but I DO like to see them more in the background. I look to fanfic to find stories completely focused on ships instead of cases. I don't need fanfic being acted out on screen. I admit, though, it's kind of awesome to see ships come to the forefront once in a while. But only once in a while!

:lol: Yeah, you're right, that is the silver lining. Me myself, I'm just like if you're gonna put them together, do it and don't tease the audience for two plus years about it. :lol: That's never fun for me when I like a pairing. I've gotten a little frusturated with Bones because of that. :lol:

 

[mjszud]

I disagree about the other characters not getting much airtime. Natalia did have a good episode for herself, Calleigh did as well and in the upcoming episodes Eric and Ryan do as well. The writers are trying hard to give each character a storyline, and I've noticed they've been trying harder to have all the characters have more airtime as a team.

I don't think Natalia having one centered episode in a span of 2 seasons qualifies as TPTB doing very well. Im referring to the episode 'Miami Confidental' back in S6 ( a great epi BTW). This season she only had a small piece in 'Tipping Point' & it was far from being centered on her.
I don't see that Ryan's has been much better either, though it will get better later...who knows to what extent though.
Still, I very seldom see a great deal of balance with any of them....screentime or arcs...definitly not arcs!
I can maybe think of 3 episodes out of the past 15 (of this season) that they've done good in showing a little more with the other characters - everything else has been either E/C or H/drama & even when it isn't being romantically focused on.
If e/c had such a bright future on the way, then why must we have to see every detail of it now & have it so "front & center" as we have the past 2 seasons? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me for a show that still has many seasons ahead of them.

 

[Delynn]

I don't think Natalia having one centered episode in a span of 2 seasons qualifies as TPTB doing very well. Im referring to the episode 'Miami Confidental' back in S6 ( a great epi BTW). This season she only had a small piece in 'Tipping Point' & it was far from being centered on her.
I don't see that Ryan's has been much better either, though it will get better later...who knows to what extent though.
Still, I very seldom see a great deal of balance with any of them....screentime or arcs...definitly not arcs!
I can maybe think of 3 episodes out of the past 15 (of this season) that they've done good in showing a little more with the other characters - everything else has been either E/C or H/drama & even when it isn't being romantically focused on.

It feels to me like everyone, with the exception of Horatio, has taken a backseat to the Calleigh/Eric relationship. And with Emily and David not doing scenes together, for whatever reason, even Horatio's screen time is somewhat reduced as Calleigh and Eric's time escalates.

They have so many talented actors on this show with characters that have the potential to be incredibly interesting. Rex Linn has earned a storyline with his character, Frank. He is a wonderful actor who has worked very hard and developed a well respected and well loved character on this show.

Both Natalia and Ryan are amazing characters who also deserve their chance to have their moments - as does Tara Price.

If e/c had such a bright future on the way, then why must we have to see every detail of it now & have it so "front & center" as we have the past 2 seasons? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me for a show that still has many seasons ahead of them.

I'm beginning to think that they have bigger plans for Calleigh and Eric then they're revealing. I really believe that we won't be seeing less of them. I think they will remain a major story line for quite a while. There is no other reason to commit this kind of time and money to promoting their relationship. TPTB appear to be almost desperate to sell this relationship.

There have been any number of couples on television with chemistry that just couldn't/can't be ignored with the ultimate example of the perfect chemistry (arguably) being David Duchovny/Mulder and Gillian Anderson/Scully on The X-Files.

I just don't see Calleigh and Eric coming anywhere near the natural relationship Mulder and Scully had - and TPTB on The X-Files dragged that relationship out for over 7 seasons!

I don't support any relationship on CSI Miami, but TPTB have had an example of a natural chemistry with David Caruso and Sofa Milos. So they should know that it shouldn't be this hard.