Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

[GregNickRyanFan]

The only thing with GSR (while I don't favor that pairing) that bugged me the most was that it caused there to be a lot less Gil/Cath scenes and I really loved their friendship. Though some feel GSR took over the show. With D/L though, the reason it doesn't take over the show is because neither party is one of the main stars. With GSR, Gil was the main character, the leader. With E/C, Calleigh is the leading lady. That may be in part why people are so riled up. Those that feel that GSR took over Vegas may fear that the same will happen with E/C since in both cases one party was one of the leading characters.

 

[inthewind]

This is a most necessary thread. There's really nowhere else to voice these concerns without incurring the wrath of others. Thanks for that, mjszud.
:brickwall:
I'm not an authority on either as only a casual viewer, but I never saw the Gris/Sara or the Danny/Lindsay relationships as primary to an episode. Neither were played to the hilt, drawing out every ounce of artificial anticipation as E/C has done. The forced feeding as opposed to the natural flow contribute substantially to the distaste many have for E/C.

TPTB jabber about the changed personality of Eric since his injury. Those changes fit. The turnabout of Calleigh, however, is a radical deviation from the character as presented in the first 4-5 years.

I dispute anyone who thinks this pairing isn't a ratings ploy. While overall ratings have remained consistent, CSI Miami has lagged in the all-important 18-49 demo. This is the same age group who are most vocal in clamoring for the relationship. In case anyone wonders, I'm a member of this same demo, but with a much different perspective.

To hate or love a crime drama because of a romantic involvement defeats the original premise. You want romance? Watch Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy or Brothers and Sisters.
:beer:
A well written scene, thrown in here and there to suggest an alliance, is all that's needed. Just as many have demanded an off the clock team get together requires no more than a short closing scene at a BBQ or meeting for pizza and beer or even a beach party, so a simple drop-in scene indicative of an offscreen relationship is sufficient.

We're gagging on the overkill, bringing the backlash we're seeing here.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I'm in the 18-49 demographic too and I also don't have the same views as the audience the show is trying to reach. I honestly never even thought about a possibility of them together until I came to this site and saw the posts of those who do like them. But, to each their own. I agree that there weren't all these promos and stuff for GSR and D/L and there definitely weren't any for flack/angell. The only promo I remember about D/L was the one where she told him she was pregnant. And there was maybe an interview or two about D/L. From what I remember, there didn't start being a lot of GSR promotion until Jorja and WP were leaving the show.

 

[jolein]

I`m not coming often here because miami is just becoming too boring but honestly,I think this thread is an insult to fans who do like the ship.
PLus I doubt that people will actually start discussion the actual storyline.

I also don`t see the comparison between the WLMG thread and this one to behonest

 

[inthewind]

I`m not coming often here because miami is just becoming too boring but honestly,I think this thread is an insult to fans who do like the ship.
PLus I doubt that people will actually start discussion the actual storyline.

I also don`t see the comparison between the WLMG thread and this one to behonest

That's why this thread was started; so fans of the pair aren't insulted when these posts appear in other threads. The title of the thread is clearly expressed. If someone doesn't want to read it, they can bypass it.

What is WLMG?

 

[Delynn]

This is a most necessary thread. There's really nowhere else to voice these concerns without incurring the wrath of others. Thanks for that, mjszud.

It occurs to me that I never thanked you for this thread, mjszud. Thank you very much. It has provided a place for us to discuss this topic without being condemed - at least not too much!

:brickwall:
I'm not an authority on either as only a casual viewer, but I never saw the Gris/Sara or the Danny/Lindsay relationships as primary to an episode. Neither were played to the hilt, drawing out every ounce of artificial anticipation as E/C has done. The forced feeding as opposed to the natural flow contribute substantially to the distaste many have for E/C.

I agree. Both the Grissom/Sara and Danny/Lindsay relationships have been tasteful and low-key. They were never in your face and shoved down your through 24/7 like it feels the E/C relationship is currently being thrust upon us.

TPTB jabber about the changed personality of Eric since his injury. Those changes fit. The turnabout of Calleigh, however, is a radical deviation from the character as presented in the first 4-5 years.

Exactly. I used to adore Calleigh. She was sweet and had integrity that was unmatched. Now I don't recognize this character any longer. Her actions in the last couple of seasons have caused me to loose almost all of the respect I had for her. Her integrity and professionlism and been thrown by the wayside for the relationship first with Jake and now with Eric.

They've made Calleigh look so desperate to find a man that she's become almost pathetic. And her attitude with Eric is that he'd better be ready to say "how high" when she says "jump!". How is that truly loving someone?

I dispute anyone who thinks this pairing isn't a ratings ploy. While overall ratings have remained consistent, CSI Miami has lagged in the all-important 18-49 demo. This is the same age group who are most vocal in clamoring for the relationship. In case anyone wonders, I'm a member of this same demo, but with a much different perspective.

To hate or love a crime drama because of a romantic involvement defeats the original premise. You want romance? Watch Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy or Brothers and Sisters.

I have believed from the first moment they sent the "feelers" out to see if this relationship would be accepted that this has been nothing but a marketing ploy. What this overkill is telling me is that a lot of fans aren't buying it. If everyone was buying it they wouldn't be working so hard to sell it. And that is what all of the PR is doing - selling something that a lot of people aren't buying.

I accepted both Grissom/Sara and Danny/Lindsay because they were subtle additions to the stories of these characters and they didn't interfer with the basic premise of the show. This doesn't even come close to being true with the E/C hook up.

:beer:
A well written scene, thrown in here and there to suggest an alliance, is all that's needed. Just as many have demanded an off the clock team get together requires no more than a short closing scene at a BBQ or meeting for pizza and beer or even a beach party, so a simple drop-in scene indicative of an offscreen relationship is sufficient.

We're gagging on the overkill, bringing the backlash we're seeing here.

If I truly believed that TPTB cared what we think, I'd hope that they would listen to and use your suggestion. I'm one who really doesn't think this storyline came from "what the fans want". It came from what TPTB want.

 

[doublehelix]

A few of you have mentioned the change in Delko's character after he was shot. He went from the self-confident, but often flaky, player type to someone with shattered self-confidence, doubt and indecision. I can see why they would change his character initially. Just about anyone would be besieged by the same sort of things after being through much less than getting shot.
This situation with Calleigh did not make things any better. We all seemed to want to see Eric Delko come back to something like what he was just with some new tweaks and improvements. However, that is not what we have seen.
-Look how this situation all started. Calleigh give Eric an innocent peck on the cheek and all of a suddent, as if a switch had been flipped, Eric can't live without her. This can't possibly be healthy.
-For two and a half seasons Delko has been pining away for Calleigh. If anything this has made Delko look more pathetic and sorry, as opposed to sympathetic. Any other fellow would have pined for a short while and moved on.
-Things didn't get much better when Calleigh confronted Eric on the elevator in a recent episode saying "I need to hear it!". Again, Eric looked indecisive even when he said to himself "I know now."

I am in agreement with many who see the E/C situation as a ratings ploy. This constant will-they-or-won't-they on the show has gone on for far too long. And as many here have noted, not everyone is buying it. To my own observations those who are tend to be in their "tweens" vs. the key 18-49 demographic. But all of this goes to the quality of the stories that aired on the show, and I think we would all agree that the writing in this show leaves much to be desired. TPTB would be wise to inject some new blood into the writing team or maybe even replace it totally. TPTB will not be able to boost the ratings unless the stories improve. Just throwing to lead characters into a contrived romance isn't going to solve the shows woes.

 

[mjszud]

This is a most necessary thread. There's really nowhere else to voice these concerns without incurring the wrath of others. Thanks for that, mjszud.

It occurs to me that I never thanked you for this thread, mjszud. Thank you very much.

Your both welcome.

I think this thread is an insult to fans who do like the ship.
I also don`t see the comparison between the WLMG thread and this one to behonest

I'm sorry you feel that way, however, as said before this is not here to be placed as an insult to those who ship this couple. We're discussing all sorts of things that have resulted from this pairing's romantic storyline; it isn't just "we don't like them because we don't like them". There's a great deal of things this has effected & that's why this thread is necessary to us.

What is WLMG?

'Why Lindsay must go" thread in the NY section.

What this overkill is telling me is that a lot of fans aren't buying it. If everyone was buying it they wouldn't be working so hard to sell it. And that is what all of the PR is doing - selling something that a lot of people aren't buying.

You've hit it right there.
It seems to me as if the actors are having to create thier own "make-believe" backstory to help sell it. Some of the things that come out of thier mouths in these interviews just floor me. I think WOW -where did that come from, 'cause that didn't play out on the screen! That's all part of why this seems so tasteless, & forced. TPTB didn't write 90% of anything the actors say has been going on all these years.

They've made Calleigh look so desperate to find a man that she's become almost pathetic. And her attitude with Eric is that he'd better be ready to say "how high" when she says "jump!". How is that truly loving someone?

I fully agree.
Part of the reason this is hard to buy is because they've had to drastically change Eric's character to make him "fitting" for Calleigh - as if she never would have accepted him the way he was, or who he truly is. Why should it be that way? Eric was no angel, but was it really necessary to have him turn into this needy, self-concious, co-dependant man just so she would look at him differently?! To me that's just wrong, & it doesn't say much for her so-called love for him either.

 

[silentdisco]

I`m not coming often here because miami is just becoming too boring but honestly,I think this thread is an insult to fans who do like the ship.
PLus I doubt that people will actually start discussion the actual storyline.

I also don`t see the comparison between the WLMG thread and this one to behonest

I see what you're saying, but even as an E/C shipper (don't kill me, guys, I'm not here to attack you!), I don't find it insulting. I think it's good that they have this thread, because there really isn't anywhere else to honestly discuss not liking this ship. The E/C thread is only for those who support the ship, and all ship threads are required to keep discussion of other ships to a minimum.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I think this thread is an insult to fans who do like the ship.
PLus I doubt that people will actually start discussion the actual storyline.

I also don`t see the comparison between the WLMG thread and this one to behonest

So, a thread that says "why so and so should go" is not insulting to the fans of that character, but a thread talking about a relationship and how it has affected other aspects of the show (not the characters as a whole) is insulting? That confuses me. Personally, I find a thread titled "why so and so should go" much more insulting.

And there HAS been discussion about the actual storylines. No one is here stating they don't like this pairing for no reason. They have their reasons and give examples to back up why they are of that opinion.

However, I do not think this thread would be here if tptb at CBS/Miami had promoted this pairing more like the GSR and D/L relationships were promoted. Some feel that the promotion of E/C was too "in your face" and all of that. That's probably the biggest reason people are bothered by this. Some people get frusturated when they hear too much about one thing.

Here's a (non Miami related) example: I am personally highly annoyed with entertainment/magazine type of shows because all they've been talking about lately is octo-mom. I'm sorry, but that is NOT entertainment. I watched those kinds of shows to hear about actors, actresses, singers, etc. Not about people who were unknown until they had a procedure that produced multiple babies. I don't want to hear about octo-mom every time I turn on the frickin' tv. :lol: I want to hear about actual celebs. And a lot of people feel that way about E/C. If TPTB had promoted E/C a little more subtlely then maybe there wouldn't be any backlash. Just saying...

Oh and thank you Silentdisco for saying what you said. That's the point I've been trying to get across.

 

[mjszud]

Silentdisco, I sincerely appreciate your post above; as well as GNRFan.
To anyone else, please keep in mind that this thread is not here to discuss WHY it was started; we've all explained why already, so I'm going to kindly ask that this subject of why it was started & whether or not it's insulting, to be dropped now. I honestly don't feel that myself, or anyone else, needs to further explain it.
Also, as I stated in the opening post - I ran this idea by our Mod first to get her permission, in which (obviously) she gave me approval, so, can we please have some space here, & move on.


Mj.

 

[ash09]

Wow, I'd like to add to the thanks to mjszud for making this much-needed thread! I was wondering when something like this would come around. Thanks!

I agree with what you guys have said here recently.
I really liked Calleigh and Eric's characters, but both started to shift in the more recent seasons. Oblivious me didn't even really realize the whole E/C thing until I saw a rerun a few months ago... "Did Eric and Calleigh just have a moment? ...No..."

I didn't really mind the pairing at first, it was tolerable, but the hospital scene with Calleigh and Eric's watch kind of pushed it over the edge, IMO. I think this is what you were talking about, GregNickRyanFan, the whole "in your face" thing. If people didn't realize the E/C relationship, it was painfully obvious in that episode. I think Eric got wimpier as this whole love triangle thing got going. He was acting all hurt and (crying?) offended when Calleigh was still deciding her status with Jake. I dunno, I feel like the Eric Delko we all knew and loved kind of disappeared in that ep.

Sure, he was shot in the head and there's still a piece of the bullet in there, but does that call for a character change so drastic that he's barely recognizable? Sounds like Eric needs a good *slap* to snap out of it!

But the teaser alone for Monday's ep has be questioning whether I'll tune in or not. Seriously, this is CSI: Miami, not Days of Our Lives.

 

[inthewind]

There's an upside to this "wimpier Eric" we've been subjected to recently.
:guffaw:
We have often criticized TPTB for their lack of follow through with previous characterizations and storylines. The bassett hound looks and whining emanating from Eric lately are clearly reminiscent of Marisol. I, for one, can finally see the familial similarities.

 

[mjszud]

The bassett hound looks and whining emanating from Eric lately are clearly reminiscent of Marisol. I, for one, can finally see the familial similarities.

:lol: I would never have even compared the two until you just said it, & you're right. :brickwall:
Not to mention that it's all very reminiscent of the "tragedy illness/near death = love" story they also played on H/Marisol. Good grief.
I don't understand why they couldn't have just had them gradually falling for each other. This - Calleigh having a tragedy one day, Eric having his the next day, then repeat 5000 times more - makes it more agonizing, & unbelievable.

But the teaser alone for Monday's ep has be questioning whether I'll tune in or not. Seriously, this is CSI: Miami, not Days of Our Lives.

I can't say I blame you there. Whether the e/c scene is limited to a few moments during the entire episode, what I don't think anyone realizes is that anytime there is any romance involved, it tends to overshadow the episode regardless - it sticks out like a sore thumb...in this case a huge fat ugly bleeding thumb that never seems to ever go away.

 

[MaddyAnn]

Something that really bothers me is that other characters, not E/C, who should be present in certain scenes, are not. The one that jumps to mind is Calleigh's hospital scene. Sure, it made sense to throw an E/C moment in there, but there was so much focus on it that we never even saw the rest of the team visit her!

I'm not so opposed to the idea of E/C, but when it interferes with the team dynamics, then I have a problem. Not to mention that the only person we've really seen interacting with Calleigh lately is Eric. I can't remember the last "personal" scene that Calleigh's had with anyone, save that small moment with Ryan at the beginning of "Smoke Gets in Your CSI's."

I'd love for there to be a way to have the romance without it becoming a problem. But as it is, I'd rather they just did away with it.