Episode #617 - "To Kill A Predator" ***CONTAINS SPOILERS***

[seahawk]

My major WTF moment actually happened before the last scene.
When Horatio was talking to the dad of the murdered girl, I had a major ROFL moment at the following dialogue:

Horatio: Did you kill those predators?
Dad: Are you a parent?
Horatio: *stares*
Dad: I'd never kill anyone...
Horatio: *stares* [and thinks: Bah, Humbug! I can handle both parenting and killing people! I'm a modern dad! :lol: ]

So, to me, the last scene wasn't a surprise but rather a confirmation of my suspicions about him...

 

[mjszud]

HCRAZY, I agree the "broken glasses" is putting out some type of refernce to what we are seeing in Horatio & his actions this season. In a sence, he is "cracking" himself. To me this is showing development in his character...good or bad...however anyone looks at it.

Stuart Otis is a great example, MiamiRocks, but that was so long ago. Since the beginning of the series we've watched H go through all kinds of Hell, it looks to me as if all this "hell" is what is pushing him over the edge at this point.

I agree, it seems like he is all out for revenge & yes, it looks bad when taken seriously...however...it's a TV show, meant to entertain.


It's also possible that H doesn't go overboard on this guy. All we saw was an implication that he was going to rough up the guy.
Remember on a NY epi where there was the scene w/ Mac & the guy on the roof...I know what it looked like to me.
Most likely, the way H has been lately it is very possible that he did lose it on this guy, but really we don't know yet. Will we ever even find out?

There are alot of good points out there from both sides, I agree w/ some, disagree w/ others. But, for all we know this could come back to slap Horatio in his face..once again, this time he'll have to really face the consequences.

I have 3 daughters of my own...would I take it into my own hands? Probably.
Rage can drive anyone of anykind to do things that they may or may not have done in the past. I just think this is what we are seeing w/ H right now.
I just hope that this is as far as they take it, as much excitement it puts into the epi, it still is a bit annoying to see H constantly out for revenge. Id much rather see him take on a mysterious case that he cannot solve opposed to always having all the enemies after him. That's getting old.

 

[lusiana88]

And I was wondering about Calleigh as well... she just seemed quieter & subdued... I wondered if that was part of her "reaction" to the kidnapping..

Have you noticed that? In the scene where she is with Eric and Nat, it looks like she is gonna cry. Uhm She is different, no smiles, no joking...a bit sad.


I think H has been a bit too much payback and no justice. I hate pedophiles because children have to live happy and not to be someone's game but H has been really vengeful even in other situation. I think his idea of justice has really changed after Marisol's death.

 

[Finch]

I remember somewhere in the beginning of CSI:Miami when Horatio specifically said to some lady that use to have his job (I can't remember her name) he said "you can have this job back whenever you want it back". So maybe now he just doesn't care anymore if he looses his job or not. That definitely could be looking into it way to deeply but I just remembered that right now.

He was talking to Megan Donner. I tend to think he said that because he was given his job because Megan was on leave and when she came back, she found out her job was given away to someone else and she wasn't reinstated. It was basically a courtesy thing and letting her know that he didn't bud for the job, it was just given to him so hopefully 'no hard feelings'. Besides, I think Horatio thought of her as an equal in the lab, especially when Speed said "It's not clear whether I'm working for him or I'm working for you" since they both gave orders which were expected to be followed. :lol:

Wow, I love reading everyone's thoughts on last night's episode. There's too much to quote and respond to and I'd end up sounding like a broken record, (from what I said above) so I'll just say I agree with the majority and I totally understand where the minority are coming from regarding H.

Though this was actually a really really good episode, in my opinion. I couldn't help but notice they were at the same park where 'Wannabe' took place and then Natalia says something about "you stole evidence in a murder investigation." Ah, that takes me back. I'm pretty sure it wasn't their intention to make it look that way but I always look to deep into things, being a fan this long. Heh.

And I can't get over how Natalia wears white to crime scenes. Girl, you're going to ruin those clothes one day. The one thing I've learned from working at a greenhouse: Never wear white.

Ryan's clothes... Is he trying to be more like H? I don't know, but those clothes are hideous. Dress shirt, tie, overcoat. Er, it's Miami hun. You're going to boil--no wonder he spends most of his time in the lab. :lol: Love the colour on him but there's too many layers for my taste. The wardrobe staff have to get out of this designer mentality. Real people don't go to work looking like models.

And I was wondering about Calleigh as well... she just seemed quieter & subdued... I wondered if that was part of her "reaction" to the kidnapping..

I wondered that too. And I would have liked to get some inside as to what happened after Calleigh decided to go home with Eric. Oh well, since it wasn't explained, I can't really go there. But she did seem a little more subdued, which is sad. I would have liked to see her realize life is too short and then be extra bouncy. *hugs her*

 

[Bigdog]

I think Cal, nat, delko, and a few others will backup H if he does show up on a computer for something. Look at how many times Horatio has backed up Wolf, Delko, Natalia, Calleigh, etc. Calleigh probably wants justice just as much as Horatio does. After her kidnapping which would explain why she may take Horatios side on this one if he gets caught doing whatever he might have did.

Calleigh went through one hell of a kidnapping where she probably thought she may have gotten killed, along with H for that week. She will definitely back him up, along with Delko. Not to sure about wolf, he is kind of an ass but then again he may try to help out Horatio since Horatio saved his butt when he didn't shoot at that one guy a while go, remember he froze and Horatio said "You didn't have a shot". Natalia would most likely back him up as well.

yea, also Horatio at one point said he wanted to work in the lab more which is why he was working in the lab more, but I think I am repeating myself LOL. Which would prove he probably doesn't care to much for that job. He did say to megan, I didn't ask for this job so whenever you want it back. So yea, it could be either way..who knows.

 

[Carolyn318]

I'm not condoning or making excuses for Horatio possibly committing police brutality with this post. I'm just pointing out what might have been going thru Horatio's head. Not all pedophiles go after young girls. Some go after young boys. Want some examples??? I can do that. Michael Jackson, he's been accused of, on trial for, found not guilty of molesting a young boy. Personally, I think Michael is guilty but that's a whole other subject. Then there are all these Catholic priests you hear about on the news who sexually abuse young boys, some girls but most of the victims I've ever seen or heard about have been male. My point is maybe Horatio was thinking like a dad, which he is-(Kyle). Maybe his fatherly instincts overrode his police training. I know all the pedophiles on this episode mainly went after young girls but who's to say they wouldn't go after young boys too, given the opportunity. Maybe Horatio was thinking the same thing.
*Horatio thinking: Who's to say this pervert wouldn't go after a young boy like Kyle given the opportunity???*
Like I said at the beginning of this post "I'm not condoning or making excuses for Horatio possibly committing police brutality with this post. I'm just pointing out what might have been going thru Horatio's head" at that moment.

:vulcan:-Logical in a human way.

 

[Bigdog]

as creepy as horatio was, I am glade he beat up the guy. Well, we don't really know if he beat him up or if he beat him to death. I personally don't care if people say he was hypocritical, I think he did what he did because like he said, "you picked a bad week for this". I think the answer is as simple as Horatio said it. To much BS happened that week and now he has to deal with this Idiot that is suppose to be protecting that girl. So far I have watched this episode a bunch ever since it aired yesterday and I must say that no matter how hard you dig down like we all have been doing, the answer is simple for what he did and why he did it.

So many times throughout episodes of CSI: Miami has he made a threat when I really wish he would just kick there butts sometimes. The only thing that made it creepy and since he has done stuff possibly close to this, he has never said "you are resisting arrest" and he has never looked like he looked as of yesterday. He was completely stressed out to the max. He was at the peak of snapping. Though I don't believe he snapped, what I think is because of all that crap that has happened and the guy "picking a bad week for this" he just had to let out some stress and he was definitely the bastard to do it on.

I thought that type of thing would have happened when they found the girls bodies in the guys backyard with all their pictures in the guys house. Of course though he wasn't as stressed out at that time to consider such a thing.

 

[miamirocks]

I'm sure the team would back Horatio up if he got called out on this, but I think it would be much more interesting if they COULDN'T. What I would love is a scene w/H and the team, maybe Cal and Eric, and Stetler comes in w/video from the house or something (which isn't out of the realm of possibility - maybe the parents weren't as trusting of the 14-year-old as she thought). Let's have Calleigh and Delko have to watch their boss beat on this guy, and see what their reaction is. While I'm sure Delko would back H no matter what, I think for Cal it might be different. Like I said, she defended him in "After the Fall" b/c she didn't believe H was capable of such a thing. Now how would she react when confronted w/it?

Yes, Cal was kidnapped and is experiencing trauma (not that they really addressed it last night) - but as much as she probably wanted to kill the guy who kidnapped her (Seth), she held back. She didn't snap. I think if it were up to H, Seth would've gotten his brains blown out.

Anyway, this would be an interesting conflict for Cal - her boss commits an act of police brutality, and while she may understand why, she is also FAIR and believes in justice like the old Horatio used to. She's also second in command, so she has to think about the good of the whole lab - which was Horatio should have been doing.

What kind of example is H setting for his team? Do as I say, not as I do? Ryan gets in trouble for shoving a guy last year, but H can beat the crap out of someone and it he gets away w/it scott-free? :wtf: I hope not.

Just hearing the reaction of that guy when H says, "You're resisting arrest," and he says, panicked, "No, I'm not" - I mean, the guy is scum, but he's also subdued and obviously very scared. He's not going to hurt H. Just b/c H is frustrated w/his life, doesn't give him the right to beat a criminal up - there needs to be consequences. So far, there have been none. (Brazil was a joke).

All I can say is Horatio needs to be confronted about his behavior before an INNOCENT BYSTANDER gets hurt or killed. (Although that would be interesting, too...) I personally would love to see Cal confront him, seeing as how they haven't had the best relationship over the past two years and she will end up holding the bag if he gets suspended. Can she really handle that right now? Did Horatio even think of that?

At least this scenario would create REAL drama instead of all this contrived, soap opera crap we've been getting lately.

And let's have Horatio care more about his team and less about strangers, please. I'd rather have seen him have an opportunity to pounce on Ron or Seth than some random pedaphile that had no connection to him - other than it might've brought out his "fatherly instincts" or whatever. I'm all for H showing how "bad" he's become, but do it in a way that's not completely stupid.

 

[Bigdog]

yea but I don't believe he showed it in a stupid way though. Of course people don't have the same tastes and that is what made the ending so great. The cliffhanger is so great and right now we are all sitting here debating this episode, kind of like what people do with soap operas when they are really into it. Of course this Soap Opera is so much better. lol

cal and him have had a good relationship actually. I still have yet to see one where it makes there relationship go down the tubes or something. This episode could just do that, but I don't think it will. Cain has actually been the "do as I say, not as I do" type of person though. I do agree though that some of the before episodes were going to the soap opera'ish stand point which is not what I liked and the reason why I took alittle break, but I still watched them later to see whats going on.

This is a damn good debate I tell you. hopefully this show comes up with more things like this but not a whole lot to be stupid. But if Calleigh did a turn around just like H did alittle pretty much, that would be even more juicy of a story. Calleigh also doesn't act like normal people do which would be a great turn around, it would probably make people go "WOW!". Calleigh acts more like a robot, so this would be really good to see her turn around what she was so strict on in the passed, it would still make sense too.

 

[CaRWash_Cutie]

I think a quote from a CSI Miami episode sums up all (or almost all) of our feelings well, and it's even from the man in question himself:

Horatio's talking to a woman who murdered a man that raped her, and he says something very profound to her:

"I don't approve, but I understand how you got there."

I think that's the same for most of us...we don't approve of what H has done in the past couple of episodes, but I think most of us can understand what happened to get him to that point, and I think we kinda know his thought process on this "evolution of a character" as it were.

Just thought I'd put in my two cents!

 

[Bigdog]

Yea, I was also thinking about that CaRWash Cutie. I seen that episode earlier today and thought about that for a few minutes.

Who knows though, if the team does back him up, will this mean that someone else from the team might do the same thing that Horatio did?

 

[Finch]

Horatio's talking to a woman who murdered a man that raped her, and he says something very profound to her:

"I don't approve, but I understand how you got there."

I think that's the same for most of us...we don't approve of what H has done in the past couple of episodes, but I think most of us can understand what happened to get him to that point, and I think we kinda know his thought process on this "evolution of a character" as it were.

That's how I feel too. And I think sometimes not agreeing with H's actions became misconstrued into thinking we hate H altogether, which isn't the case at least with me. To me, it's such a huge evolution and one unbecoming of the character.

Of course, this whole situation makes me think of something Dr.Phil has said numerous times. (Yes, I watch Dr.Phil. ) "If you choose the behaviour, you choose the consequences." So I think everything might come back and bite H in the ass. *shrugs*

Who knows though, if the team does back him up, will this mean that someone else from the team might do the same thing that Horatio did?

Lol, I hope not. But I can see them defending H.

I'm glad the writers finally dished out an episode that made us think. :lol:

 

[miamirocks]

CarWashCutie Wrote: I think a quote from a CSI Miami episode sums up all (or almost all) of our feelings well, and it's even from the man in question himself: Horatio's talking to a woman who murdered a man that raped her, and he says something very profound to her:
"I don't approve, but I understand how you got there."

Wow - that's a nice find! What episode was that? Sounds like Season 1-2?

Anyway, yea, I like your take on it. We all know why H might be acting irrational and doing these things - he's certainly been through a hell of a lot these past few years. What irks me is that there's never any consequences, and like Bigdog said, what if someone else from the team does this and gets called out for it? What will H do then? He's setting the standard.

I still think him beating up a pedaphile is kind of stupid - if he was gonna snap it should've been over someone he cared about deeply - like Yelina, Ray, Jr. (does he even exist anymore?) or his son, or even Calleigh when she was kidnapped. I totally would've understood it then, and I think it would've meant more to the audience b/c H was standing up for people he cares about, not just some random person.

As for Cal - I think we saw a little of her bad-ass side in "Stand Your Ground," where she shot and killed the driver who was trying to run her over. That was self-defence in my book, but she showed she's capable of killing if she has to. I guess it would be interesting to put her or someone else from the team in a situation similar to H last night (although I can't see Cal "beating up" a suspect :lol

I still think someone needs to gently take Horatio aside and have a friendly talk w/him. While I think Cal would be a good choice, since she's part of the team and the senior member, Yelina would also fit the bill here. Just a nice heart-to-heart w/H breaking down a little - it would be nice to see both sides of H - his anger and his sadness. I guess this is what happens when you bottle up your emotions for so long - counseling anyone?

 

[mjszud]

I have just 1 question for anyone.
If you were in Horatio's position w/ the scum, what would you have done?
There was no proof that he did anything, but EVERYONE KNOWS what he would have done if H hadn't been there & what the guy would do later if just "let go".

Im not really saying it's right, but I can understand why H wants this man off the streets. No, he wouldn't have hurt Horatio, & I don't think that even crossed H's mind. In his mind he was taking into consideration that this guy was going to walk away from it all & continue to go after young girls. (or boys)

I think in thier jobs it must suck, because it takes a person dying, then they come in to solve the crime & put the suspect away. Its always too late for them to save anyone, that has to eat at them after awhile, especially Horatio. Only this time, Horatio had the oppurtunity to get this guy before he could hurt anyone. I know for myself, I don't think I could rest if I knew that this guy was right in front of me & I did nothing to stop him.


You just watched "Payback" today didn't you CARWASH CUTIE? Me too.
"I don't approve, but I understand how you got there" ......agreed.

I just wanted to comment on those who mentioned how the team would react if they knew about this last ordeal.
Strangely the epi was called "to kill a predator"..based around a person who took justice into his own hands....then Horatio ends up doing the same thing at the end!!
I suppose you could look at the scene w/ Eric, Natalia & Calleigh as maybe a little foreshadowing in how they would "react". Eric was first to note "they deserve it", we can see where he stands. Calleigh said to "push personal feelings aside", that kinda tells me she doesn't really agree w/ taking it into thier own hands. Natalia, I was unable to "read", I imagine she would be the one in the middle looking at both sides, like alot of us here.

 

[Bigdog]

damn, there are so many good points and so many people thinking of this one episode and trying to match it with other's as to understand why Horatio is acting this way. This tells me one thing, that the episode was not stupid in any way because of right now we are here discussing this and I think this discussion will last up until next week.

There are 2 people that hold EVERYTHING in and thats Horatio and Calleigh. Calleigh holds so much in and wont talk about anything. Same goes with Horatio. So if anyone is going to do something similar as Horatio did it will be Calleigh. As much as Calleigh acts as the stronger person so far, it's only a matter of time before something happens in a scene with her. She is obviously bottling up that whole kidnapping experience. What will happen if something bad happens to either someone close to her or if something happens to her.

This may go on for 3 episodes or something. I highly doubt next week we will see everything. I think it's going to be within 3 episodes. This is way to big to be on 2 episodes. Maybe something happens to Calleigh or somehow the guys get out of jail. Now what will Calleigh think about that? that may be something that pushes her and may back up Horatio on his actions. Of course I am just guessing but that would be one hell of a few episodes if the justice system didn't do the justice. As we all know, the justice system doesn't always do justice.

I do believe like the other person said. Eric will definitely back up Horatio on this one. but then again, are people going to listen to eric since he has had crap go on him from the past. Such as buying a huge amount of weed? So you got Eric and Alex. Eric says soemthing like "these people get what they deserve". Alex in one episode almost lost her job because there was a sex offender living in her area. She can easily hide all evidence of a beating. So if Horatio ended up killing the guy she could cover it up. oh geezes, now my mind is going wacko again.:scream: