Does Flack Love Danny?

[Faylinn]

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:
it just seems to me that they are a perfect duo the way they are, and that romance doesn't need to play a part in showing us how much they love each other.

I agree. Stuff like what we got in "All in the Family" is so great that I couldn't ask for more--the romantic angle is probably far better off staying strictly in the fandom.

PerfectAnomaly said:
I'd love to hear some more of those people explain why they chose that answer. Come on people, speak up and be heard.

I'd also love to hear from the people who don't think Flack loves Danny. Personally, I think NY has definitely shown non-romantic love between the two, and I'm curious about why people would feel differently. Come discuss it with us, y'all! :lol:

ETA: I type slow.

Top41 said:
I think there are definitely lots of differences between Danny and Lindsay's behavior--Danny's never manipulated Flack like Lindsay did to him in "Oedipus Hex" for example--but I do think it's fair to say there are some similarities, and that Danny relies on Flack--and has throughout the run of the show--much in the way Lindsay relied on him in season three. To be fair, Flack has done a lot more for Danny than Danny has for Lindsay.

True, true. I just don't think it's a direct parallel, but Danny definitely takes advantage of Flack in his own way. I think it's interesting to read Eddie's thoughts on Flack's relationship with Danny (I can't recall the exact quotes at the moment, but I think it's from his latest CSI Files interview), and I think a lot of it comes down to the differences between Danny and Flack as people. Lindsay is selfish when it comes to Danny, and Danny is selfish when it comes to Flack, but I think the perception of the two has a lot to do with how that affects Danny as the one who is being used vs Flack as the one being used. (Do I make any sense at all? :lol

 

[Top41]

Faylinn said:
True, true. I just don't think it's a direct parallel, but Danny definitely takes advantage of Flack in his own way. I think it's interesting to read Eddie's thoughts on Flack's relationship with Danny (I can't recall the exact quotes at the moment, but I think it's from his latest CSI Files interview), and I think a lot of it comes down to the differences between Danny and Flack as people. Lindsay is selfish when it comes to Danny, and Danny is selfish when it comes to Flack, but I think the perception of the two has a lot to do with how that affects Danny as the one who is being used vs Flack as the one being used. (Do I make any sense at all? :lol

I think Eddie said something about how they're very similar and that Flack gets where Danny is coming from. Danny's kind of the Id--he's what Flack would be if Flack didn't have a good handle on himself and a good sense of right and wrong.

I think we're harder on Lindsay taking advantage of Danny because we knew Danny's feelings for her were romantic. With Flack you can just say, oh, he's being a good friend and leave it at that--though of course it's possible to take advantage of a friend, too. I think Flack put up with a lot from Danny in this last episode.

But I do get what you're saying about "Danny being the one used vs. Flack being the one used." Danny is much, much more fragile than Flack, so seeing him being taken advantage of seems more wrong than seeing Danny lean on Flack over and over again. Flack's strong--we know he can take it. Danny's emotional and fragile and vulnerable, so we're less sure he can handle it.

 

[Faylinn]

Danny's kind of the Id--he's what Flack would be if Flack didn't have a good handle on himself and a good sense of right and wrong.

Hmm, thinking about it that way makes it interesting to consider the way Flack tries to care for Danny--how much of it is just because Danny is his friend, and how much of it is because he sees himself in Danny and might be afraid (on some level) of who he could become...

I think we're harder on Lindsay taking advantage of Danny because we knew Danny's feelings for her were romantic.

For me, it also has something to do with time. Danny and Flack have clearly been friends for years, they've got history. With Lindsay, she waltzed in and began mistreating Danny damn-near immediately. Flack knows how Danny works, Danny knows how much he can get away with when it comes to Flack--there's any number of ways to speculate about their relationship. With Lindsay, we saw her from the very beginning, there's no history to take into consideration. All we saw is 'I like you', 'I like you too', *run away*, *chase like a puppy dog*, *avoid*, *chase anyway*, etc.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Top41 said:

PerfectAnomaly said:

You bring up another good question about Lindsay, Top. I think American women in general are very hard on each other. Bitchy and judgmental, even. I can certainly see how people would be too hard on Lindsay because she's with Danny, who many see as attractive and sexy. A lot of American women, even if we don't want to admit it, are driven in their relationships (consciously or subconsciously) by a certain degree of jealousy of other women. That's something society has pounded into our heads since we took our first breath outside of the womb. It's another sad commentary on our society.

I think jealousy is part of it, but women do just tend to be harder on and more judgmental of other women. To be totally fair, there are parallels between Danny and Lindsay's behavior. Danny does think of other people while Lindsay always seems to be coddling her own feelings but still, Danny leans on Flack more than Lindsay has ever leaned on him, and from what we've seen, gives little back in return.

Top41 said:

PerfectAnomaly said:
I don't see that as being a motivator for the dislike of Lindsay, however. Many people who dislike Lindsay have commented positively on Danny's chemistry with other women (Angell, the dominatrix, subway girl, etc.) What it boils down to for me is Lindsay has been developed half-assed from day one. The actress's performance of Lindsay has been half-assed from day one. It's impossible for me understand or like a character when I can't determine what her personality is or what motivates her actions and words. If that was communicated better, my feelings for her would possibly be very different.

No, I agree it's not the reason most dislike her, but some--myself included--have been hard on her for treatment of Danny. Danny definitely relies on Flack always being there for him, and I think if Danny was a woman, we'd be harder on him. Why is it always Flack going out of his way for Danny and never the reverse? If Danny was a woman, we'd hear more about that I think. Why is the behavior okay with Danny being that way to Flack but not Lindsay to Danny? I think I'd go so far as to say both Danny and Lindsay have taken advantage of the feelings that others have for them.

I’m using the general “we,” “you” and “us” for this. I’m not intending to try and speak for anyone other than myself.

I think along with jealousy, a big motivator when women are judgmental and hard on each other stems from the equality struggle. When we perceive a woman doing/saying something that we think damages the overall view of how we think women should be perceived, we jump on it and them big time. Does that make sense? It did in my head, but reading it I'm not so sure.

You're right when you say there are parallels between Danny and Lindsay's behavior. I can also see how Danny could be seen as selfish with how much support he gets from Flack and how little he seems to give back. But like others have said, with Danny, there's a consistency and a solid back story that gives us plausible reasons for why he behaves the way he does. With Lindsay there's really no insight into why she behaves the way she does, and she's definitely lacking consistency.

I think because we have been shown who Danny and Flack basically are, and what their (especially Danny) flaws are and what events shaped those flaws we are more forgiving with Danny's behavior. A relationship like Danny's and Flack's is believable even if it seems unbalanced. Danny's and Lindsay's relationship in part of S2 was believable IMO. They were co-workers who shared a fun, flirty banter. But after that, there was nothing shown as to why these two would ever get together. It was just the cliché of "average country girl moves to the big city, has some bad thing in her past, fits seamlessly into the work place and bags the hot city guy with somewhat of a 'bad boy' vibe." Their relationship has just never seemed "real" and believable; especially when Danny was turned into the whipped puppy chasing after his supposed dream girl and Lindsay was the awesome dream girl worth chasing. With Flack there’s a foundation and context there that makes us believe that despite Danny’s bratty behavior, he and Flack have a solid relationship. With Lindsay, there is no foundation or context that makes us see anything beyond Lindsay’s bratty behavior. Danny doesn’t have to change who he is for us to believe his relationship with Flack. He does with Lindsay, but that just makes the relationship even more false.

I think all of this would hold true if the Flack/Danny, Danny/Lindsay relationships were exactly the same except Danny and Lindsay swapped genders.

 

[Top41]

Faylinn said:
Hmm, thinking about it that way makes it interesting to consider the way Flack tries to care for Danny--how much of it is just because Danny is his friend, and how much of it is because he sees himself in Danny and might be afraid (on some level) of who he could become...

I think it's more that Flack gets where Danny's coming from and knows what it's like to want to act like Danny but because he's Flack and he's restrained and strong, he doesn't. I think Flack does look at Danny as someone a little weaker than himself, or at least more vulnerable and definitely as someone in need of protection.

For me, it also has something to do with time. Danny and Flack have clearly been friends for years, they've got history. With Lindsay, she waltzed in and began mistreating Danny damn-near immediately. Flack knows how Danny works, Danny knows how much he can get away with when it comes to Flack--there's any number of ways to speculate about their relationship. With Lindsay, we saw her from the very beginning, there's no history to take into consideration. All we saw is 'I like you', 'I like you too', *run away*, *chase like a puppy dog*, *avoid*, *chase anyway*, etc.

That's true...Danny and Flack obviously have a history and a friendship outside of Danny being needy and relying on Flack.

 

[Top41]

PerfectAnomaly said:
I’m using the general “we,” “you” and “us” for this. I’m not intending to try and speak for anyone other than myself.

I think along with jealousy, a big motivator when women are judgmental and hard on each other stems from the equality struggle. When we perceive a woman doing/saying something that we think damages the overall view of how we think women should be perceived, we jump on it and them big time. Does that make sense? It did in my head, but reading it I'm not so sure.

I would definitely agree with that. Nothing bugs me more than to see another woman acting stupid around guys and yeah, when women do things like use guys for their money or break up marriages, it is frustrating because it looks bad for the rest of us. I don't think men think that way, but I don't think they've had to deal with the shit we've had to, either.

I think because we have been shown who Danny and Flack basically are, and what their (especially Danny) flaws are and what events shaped those flaws we are more forgiving with Danny's behavior. A relationship like Danny's and Flack's is believable even if it seems unbalanced.

Agreed. There has never been one moment that I've felt Danny and Flack's interactions aren't realistic or believable. They're my favorites on the show because they are so real and likable, and I think the fact that their friendship is a little unbalanced actually contributes to that reality.

Danny's and Lindsay's relationship in part of S2 was believable IMO. They were co-workers who shared a fun, flirty banter. But after that, there was nothing shown as to why these two would ever get together. It was just the cliché of "average country girl moves to the big city, has some bad thing in her past, fits seamlessly into the work place and bags the hot city guy with somewhat of a 'bad boy' vibe." Their relationship has just never seemed "real" and believable; especially when Danny was turned into the whipped puppy chasing after his supposed dream girl and Lindsay was the awesome dream girl worth chasing. With Flack there’s a foundation and context there that makes us believe that despite Danny’s bratty behavior, he and Flack have a solid relationship. With Lindsay, there is no foundation or context that makes us see anything beyond Lindsay’s bratty behavior. Danny doesn’t have to change who he is for us to believe his relationship with Flack. He does with Lindsay, but that just makes the relationship even more false.

I think all of this would hold true if the Flack/Danny, Danny/Lindsay relationships were exactly the same except Danny and Lindsay swapped genders.

I definitely agree that Danny and Flack have a much more compelling and believable relationship than Danny and Lindsay ever will and yes, that would be true if Danny and Lindsay were both guys and friends or if Danny was a woman in the relationship with Flack, but I still think we might be harder on Danny if he was a girl. I guess we'll never know for sure, though, and your point about one relationship being more realistic and well-developed despite gender definitely stands.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Damn it, Top and Fay! Quit typing so fast.

And I'd like to hear from the people who don't see Flack as loving Danny as well.

ETA:

Top41 said:
I definitely agree that Danny and Flack have a much more compelling and believable relationship than Danny and Lindsay ever will and yes, that would be true if Danny and Lindsay were both guys and friends or if Danny was a woman in the relationship with Flack, but I still think we might be harder on Danny if he was a girl. I guess we'll never know for sure, though, and your point about one relationship being more realistic and well-developed despite gender definitely stands.

You know, the more I think about this the more I think you're right. If Danny were a woman it would be easier to stereotype him as a weak, whiney, over emotional woman who uses the big, strong, stable man to help her out of trouble. It would definitely turn Danny's "Damsel in Distress/Drama Queen" vibe into a negative. But then on the flip side, you would think Danny being a man and being those things would be a negative as well. But on another flip side (I'm working with a triangle here, people), Danny as those things goes against the male stereotype so I suppose women would interpret those things as positives. I'm all out of sides and my brain is starting to hurt, so I think I'm done.

 

[ericisacutie]

I voted yes, and then the 2nd No. I believe Flack loves Danny, but just as a great friend!

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

PerfectAnomaly said:

Top41 said:
I definitely agree that Danny and Flack have a much more compelling and believable relationship than Danny and Lindsay ever will and yes, that would be true if Danny and Lindsay were both guys and friends or if Danny was a woman in the relationship with Flack, but I still think we might be harder on Danny if he was a girl. I guess we'll never know for sure, though, and your point about one relationship being more realistic and well-developed despite gender definitely stands.

You know, the more I think about this the more I think you're right. If Danny were a woman it would be easier to stereotype him as a weak, whiney, over emotional woman who uses the big, strong, stable man to help her out of trouble. It would definitely turn Danny's "Damsel in Distress/Drama Queen" vibe into a negative. But then on the flip side, you would think Danny being a man and being those things would be a negative as well. But on another flip side (I'm working with a triangle here, people), Danny as those things goes against the male stereotype so I suppose women would interpret those things as positives. I'm all out of sides and my brain is starting to hurt, so I think I'm done.

I definately understand that one. If Danny were "Danielle" on the show, I'm , sure that I would see her as a whiney and weak character, always needing some big strong man to save 'her'. But somehow, being a guy, those qualities in him make him more endearing and real. It is confusing, because even though we don't always think about these things deeply, there is a double standard with this. I'm not saying I don't love Danny the way he is being the Damsel in Distress all the time, but I don't doubt that if he were a she, I'd hate him. Lindsay has a few of those qualities, and it turns her off to me as a character. If she was a guy, would i like her more? I dont know.

The Danny and Flack relationship is definately the strongest one on the show, and there are so many things that make it much more endearing and heartfelt than the Danny/Lindsay relationship. Danny and Flack have great chemistry together, and the actors obviously know their chracters inside out and can work well with each other. Regardless if you believe Danny and Lindsay have any chemistry (i dont think they do), there is definately more of a spark between Danny and Flack, and it could be romantic or deep friendship, either way it doesnt matter. The two of them are the real definition of a tv relationship/friendship.


The only thing i would like to see change is Danny's attitude towards Flack, mostly about how he behaves. In On the Job, he trusts Flack enough to talk to him about what has happened and ask his advice, but then storms out when Flack insists that his friends have his back. He does the same in All in the Family, telling him he should have minded his own busienss after Flack has risked his job to help him out. Even when Flack is hurt in the blast in Charge of this Post, Danny doesn't even bother to stick around in the hospital to make sure he gets out of it alright, even when Flack had been there for him when his brother was hospitalized in Run Silent, Run Deep. Yeah, he was told by Mac to keep an eye on him to make sure he didn't go after the Tanglewood boys, but the fact that Flack was there beforehand seems to me like he was there for support before he was there for protection. Flack obviously risks his job and neck for Danny, and on multiple occasions. I just want to see some reciprocation on Danny's part for all that Flack has done for him.

PerfectAnomaly said:

And I'd like to hear from the people who don't see Flack as loving Danny as well.

I'd like to hear from them, too. For me its completely obvious that they care about each other, at least as deep, brotherly friends, and I'm curious to see how people don't see it.

 

[jencsimiamigrl]

I think that they have history together and a bond becaus of that. I think that they also have each others backs as an unspoken rule. Love , maybe as brothers do . I can't see it and i like Flack with Jess now , thats cute.

 

[stormymac]

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:

PerfectAnomaly said:

And I'd like to hear from the people who don't see Flack as loving Danny as well.

I'd like to hear from them, too. For me its completely obvious that they care about each other, at least as deep, brotherly friends, and I'm curious to see how people don't see it.

Add me to the list of wanting to hear from the people who answered No to question #1 as well. I know that there are differing views of their relationship, but I am completely befuddled that, as of right now, 13 people do not think Flack loves Danny. If the question had been whether or not Stella loves the other members of the team, I can't imagine anyone saying she doesn't. Is there anyone who thinks that while Mac was seeing Peyton he didn't love Stella as a good friend at the same time? I don't think so. I don't care if you ship Danny/Lindsay, Flack/Stella, Flack/Angell, etc. or if you just don't like slash, I don't see how anyone can deny the close friendship that these two share. I find it interesting that none of the people who voted No has given a reason for their choice.

 

[kinkapoodles]

I can't see it and i like Flack with Jess now , thats cute.

While that would be totally cute...they're not exactly together yet.

And I'd like to hear from the people who don't see Flack as loving Danny as well.

Me too! I'd love to hear why they don't think Flack loves Danny as long as it's anything except: because Danny's with Lindsay or because Flack couldn't love a guy (even though we're just talking friendship/brother type love).

 

[Kimmychu]

Alright. Get ready for some major quotin' action. :lol:

cSINyFrEaK30 said:
... romance doesn't need to play a part in showing us how much they love each other.

Amen. Is that not such a great testament to how extraordinary their relationship is? Not an ounce of romance on the show between them (yet or depending on how you see it ), and it is still so apparent that there is something deep between them. Love? As I mentioned before, regardless of whether there are sexual aspects or not, love is definitely there between them and for each other.

PerfectAnomaly said:
We will accept gay characters in sitcoms, because it's easy to accept when we are allowed to laugh at the characters. But portraying a real homosexual relationship where the two people are very much like the average couple still threatens many people.

Thank you for saying that so eloquently. I find it rather insulting that gay people are currently portrayed in such stereotypical, mocking ways on television shows and movies (and I'm a straight woman!).

It's almost like a double slap: people are led to believe that gay people showing up on TV shows and movies means that we are moving past discrimination, but people don't consider how the gay people are portrayed. TPTB wants to show them as characters who are only useful as mock material and that it's only fine to accept homosexuality as long as it's something to ridicule, I'd rather TPTB stay the hell away from putting gay characters up on screen at all. Show them as real people who are like everyone else and love and feel and do regular things like everyone else, or please don't show them at all.

I think American women in general are very hard on each other. Bitchy and judgmental, even.

:lol: I think women everywhere are bitchy and judgemental on each other. It's human nature, babe. Men are equally capable of being bitchy and judgemental on each other too! Just look at the number of guys going for cosmetic treatment now, for example! :lol:

I also think Lindsay not having definiing characteristics or a portrayal that gives clear insight into motivation for actions and words makes some fans love her. I think having a non-descript character attached to the show's attractive, sexy guy makes it easy for some fans of that guy to interpret her any way they want. It's definitely a "Mary Sue" situation with Lindsay, where some fans can create their "ideal" relationship with one of the show's hot men.

Hear, hear! One of the main reasons (if not the main reason) I wish Mary Sues were abolished. Srsly, I am not interested in hearing or reading about fanbrats' sexual fantasies with their favorite show's hot men pathetically veiled under one of the female characters' name, thank you very much.

Why is the behavior okay with Danny being that way to Flack but not Lindsay to Danny?

I'd love to hear more replies to this question too.

My opinion: The stereotyping of relationships has a lot to do with this. Say for example, a heterosexual relationship. It is literally expected by people in general everywhere that the woman is to depend on the man for support in many aspects. Finances, security, etc. Why do ya think the concept of the independant career woman who doesn't need a man to complete her is still so controversial today?

It's true, even today in our 21st century world, people's jaws still drop when women stand up and say they'd rather pursue a career or a dream rather than hunt down a guy ASAP and marry him and have 2.4 kids. I should know, I get that reaction every time I say I'm more interested in pursuing my ambitions than 'look for a man to complete me'. :lol:

So perhaps the reason why people don't really question Lindsay's behavior towards Danny is because they've already slapped a stereotyped concept on their relationship before even considering the characters' individuality and the reasonings behind their actions. Lindsay = woman so she has the right to treat Danny like a punchbag when he doesn't provide everything she requires because it's expected of him, and Danny = man so he has to provide whatever the woman wants because that's what's expected of him.

In other words, stereotypes are stupid and I wish many, many more people would stop subscribing to them and start seeing people beyond labels, damnit.

Faylinn said:
Danny and Flack have clearly been friends for years, they've got history. With Lindsay, she waltzed in and began mistreating Danny damn-near immediately. Flack knows how Danny works, Danny knows how much he can get away with when it comes to Flack--there's any number of ways to speculate about their relationship. With Lindsay, we saw her from the very beginning, there's no history to take into consideration. All we saw is 'I like you', 'I like you too', *run away*, *chase like a puppy dog*, *avoid*, *chase anyway*, etc

PerfectAnomaly said:
With Flack there’s a foundation and context there that makes us believe that despite Danny’s bratty behavior, he and Flack have a solid relationship. With Lindsay, there is no foundation or context that makes us see anything beyond Lindsay’s bratty behavior. Danny doesn’t have to change who he is for us to believe his relationship with Flack. He does with Lindsay, but that just makes the relationship even more false.

Agreed, on all accounts. I think the fact that D/L came into the picture so soon and that it immediately led to Lindsay treating Danny like a prop/punchbag when they hardly even know each other is another good reason why people have become so hard on her. No matter how you look at it, it's damn rude and selfish to treat somebody you've barely known for a while the way Lindsay has treated Danny on many occasions. It's worse when you compare it with the relationship between Danny and Flack and realize that not only do the two men have a long history together (before the pilot episode), Danny and Flack have never compromised their personalities to have such a deep and special relationship. They're true to themselves and well, they're true to each other too.

1csimfan said:
I'd love to hear why they don't think Flack loves Danny as long as it's anything except: because Danny's with Lindsay or because Flack couldn't love a guy (even though we're just talking friendship/brother type love).

:lol: Girl, I think you just answered yourself there.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Kimmychu said:

PerfectAnomaly said:

I think American women in general are very hard on each other. Bitchy and judgmental, even.

I think women everywhere are bitchy and judgemental on each other. It's human nature, babe. Men are equally capable of being bitchy and judgemental on each other too! Just look at the number of guys going for cosmetic treatment now, for example!

I agree, but I figured since I've barely traveled out of my home state I should limit my commentary to American society.

 

[church2001]

I would agree that Don loves Danny but only in a big brother way (I'm actually waiting for Flack and Angell to get together). Now I'm saying Don is the big brother because he's Danny's voice of reason. He's always patient with him, watches his back, and they enjoy doing stuff together (like that scene where they played pool together).