Does Flack Love Danny?

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I agree. It'd be great to see Flack call Danny on this - for once have him say, "How many times have we been here? I'm not bailing on you, dumb ass." :lol: OK, maybe not say that exactly; but you know what I mean. I'd be interested to see how Danny would respond to Flack losing his patience with having to repeatedly prove himself to Danny and push the issue a little in hopes they can begin to move past it.
     
  2. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    I didn't see this post before I made my last one!

    I do think it would explain why Flack keeps putting himself out there for Danny over and over again, even when we don't really see what he's getting in return.

    Agreed.

    I think it would be a great storyline, too, and groundbreaking for the show. I don't know that the show would go there, though I think it would be nice to see in some capacity. I remember there was talk about making Bobby Dawson gay on CSI, or rather, having one character make a casual reference to his sexuality. It would nice to see something like that develop without it being a Big Deal or feeling like an "issues" episode. Stella's HIV exposure storyline kind of felt like that a bit, maybe because that's exactly what it was.
     
  3. cSiNyFrEaK30

    cSiNyFrEaK30 Police Officer

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    Having it come to light that Flack is gay or bisexual would be groundbreaking for any show on television. For once, the gay character wouldn't be the one with the great fashion sense (I mean, come on, look at those ties) or the lisp or girly tendencies. So many tv sitcoms and movies parody the typical gay or bi man like that, its so unrealistic and misleading. The best way I've seen a movie or tv show portray a gay character was Little Miss Sunshine, in which Steve Carell's character is gay, and thats that. No lisp, no tight clothes or "gay" tendencies. He's just a normal person, and that is what made him so realistic.
    Having the cop on the show come out of the closet would finally be a good portrayal of a serious gay character on a television show. At the same time though, I think it might also support more of the stereotype that boys can't love each other as friends without people thinking they are gay or it coming to light that they are. Im not sure if I'm making sense with that...well, for example, I have to very good guy friends that are best friends. They'd do anything to help each other out, much like Flack does for Danny. They hang out all the time, they're always together. The first thing most people ask me when they meet them is, "are they gay?" simply because they spend alot of time together and care about each other. Flack and Danny care about each other, and it would be amazing and a milestone in tv history of they made them a serious gay couple, but at the same time would it enforce the stereotype that guys can't be close friends without one of them being into the other?

    Personally, it wouldn't matter to me if it came out that Flack loves Danny romantically and the two of them end up together, or if they are just close friends. The two of them being close friends has a great dynamic, and I don't doubt that them being together would be the same. I just dont think that the writers and producers are brave enough at this point in time to do this.
     
  4. Flacknatic

    Flacknatic Hit and Run

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    Wow I quess I really stired the pot with this tangent and got people thinking and talking! I hope I didn't upset anybody with it, that was not my intention. It was just one of the rambalings of my mind and this little ol' gay boys opionion.

    Here's another...
    If we look at the (assumed) fact that Flack has a "strained" relationship with his family (in "The Fall" he says he hasn't spoken to his father in a while and "Times Up" he says he wishes he could see his mother again). Dose anyone think that Flack sees Danny as a serogate brother(and the other members of the team as serogate family members) which would also be an intresting explination for his and Danny's relationship (and his relationship to the other characters as well). So, maby Flack loves Danny in a brothely love type of way?

    Any thougts?
     
  5. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I don't think anyone is upset. I just think once you start labeling things it limits the possibilites for the character. The points you made about Flack were good ones and I agree for the most part with what you said.

    I definitely see the team as being "family." I think that would be the case regardless of their relationships with their own families. Although I think people tend to make more of their other relationships when they don't have good ones with their family. For Flack and Danny specifically, I definitely think there is a brotherly bond. Flack caretakes Danny like a devoted older brother and Danny is bratty but still goes along with what Flack says like a devoted younger brother.
     
  6. cSiNyFrEaK30

    cSiNyFrEaK30 Police Officer

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    I really like the idea that each sees the other as the brother they never had, or the brother that is there for them now when their real one wasn't. I think out of all the theories as to why Flack cares about Danny and why Danny cares about him, the brother one can be supported the most. Danny does always go to Flack for help, and is a brat about it during and afterwards, but never stops asking for help. Flack, in turn, never stops offering it and never blows Danny off, even though he's had Danny storm out on him (On the Job) and tell him to "mind his own business" (All in the Family).
    I think Flack sees Danny as the little brother he has to protect from the world, and that Danny thinks of Flack as the older brother Louie should have been. Flack and Louie bascially are doing (or did, since we dont know if Louie is dead or not) the same thing-looking out for the younger brother they care about. While Louie did it by pushing his brother away to get him out of the Tanglewood boy scene, Flack is doing it by constantly pulling him in the right direction, giving him advice and helping him out, and both older brothers risked something to do this. For Flack it was his job, for Louie his life.

    We never see much of Danny reciprocating to Flack at all, so why does Flack keep bothering? I think what someone said previously, about the team being Flack's surrogate (sp?) family, explains that, at least for me. Flack is a loyal friend, but I can guess that he's even more loyal to family. In On the Job, he immeadiatly sides with Danny, and not his fellow officers on the force when they are talking about it in the subway station. He never turns Rikki in to the department, when he knows that it is his job, instead he lets Danny be the one to do it, and even then assures him that she won't spend more than a night in jail. There are many instances when Flack is always there for Danny, through anything and everything, like a family member should. Danny doesn't seem greatful for his actions, and we've yet to see him do anything in return, but I'm thinking maybe as much as Danny needs someone like Flack to look out for him, Flack needs someone to look out for and care about. They both need each other to be there in different ways.

    Not that I wouldn't like to see evidence of Danny returning the favor, though. It is in his character to try to push people away, but its also in his character to be compassionate and loyal--i think he showed this when Aiden was found dead and he saw who he thought was the killer in the interrogation room. He cared about her, and wanted to get even with whoever killed her. I think his and Flack's friendship is even stronger than his and Aiden's was, and I'd love to see Flack in danger and Danny doing all he can to come to the rescue next time.
     
  7. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I see what you're saying about people thinking men can't be close without being gay. I don't see that as being a huge problem because male romantic relationships aren't shown on network TV. If there were other shows that had two male characters who appeared to be close friends come out and be romantically involved I could see how many people would criticize CSI: NY for jumping on the bandwagon and enforcing a stereotype. As it stands now, we're not exposed to mature, realistic homosexual relationships on network TV; the relationship would be controversial but I don't see a huge number of viewers playing the "stereotype" card in that way.
     
  8. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    I think what happened with Louie when they were kids really scarred Danny. He just seems to find it impossible to trust, no matter how much someone does for him. Flack keeps proving himself again and again to Danny and Danny just doesn't seem to get it that Flack really isn't going to let him down.

    You know, that makes a lot of sense. For Flack, growing up with a father who was a cop, he probably really thinks of his fellow officers as his family because that's how he saw his father acting. The brotherhood of cops is probably really ingrained in who Flack is. And I do think that Flack feels a need to take care of people, and Danny of all people gives him more opportunities than most. :lol:
     
  9. xfcanadian

    xfcanadian Pathologist

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    I had to step away from this thread to think about my responses. I wasn't too pleased to see some of the responses.

    every fan is biased towards their favorite parts of the show. Much is highly subjective, especially when it comes to relationships.

    Well, there's hostile response number one. It sounds like you assume since I 'bashed' D/F, that i am a D/L shipper. My post doesn't even mention this ship, why jump to that conclusion? I don't even have any ship for NY.

    Yes, i can read, but thanks for the implication that i am an idiot.


    So you have a poll with a question that includes romantic feelings (the if danny was a girl quesiton) but it isn't a 'shipping' thread. That is funny, I am not the only one who mentioned shipping. But I was the only one this was pointed out too.

    so...we aren't allowed to choose 'no'? Cause that is what this sounds like.

    I guess this really was set up so we can't choose no!

    Again, not an idiot. Sorry if i don't assign female emotional responses to male characters. I don't particularly think two male cops would have this deep emotional connection. I just think they are good friends. That is the way I see it.

    And yet again...we aren't allowed to choose no. Yet again, not an idiot. I can read. But its funny how much ship talk ended up in a non shipping thread. Seeing love between two characters isn't fact, regardless what they show. It is still subjective.


    Ulg, not to sound bitter, but what is the point of setting up a poll only to want one answer? It isn't even a debate, its just a thread set up for D/F fans. Sorry I don't fit into this tight clique. I haven't felt very comfortable on this board for awhile, I often leave out a lot of what I want to say, just to fit in here. But I am getting a little sick of it. This isn't a CSI NY board anymore...

    sorry to rant...think i will stick to the vegas boards. Cheers.
     
  10. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    You're right, a lot is subjective. Stating you don't think they love each other in any way is your opinion. Stating that others are "reading too much into the show" because they think they do love each other in some way is a judgement about other people's opinions. I don't think asking for clarification or explanation of something you posted is asking too much.

    Where in that comment did I say you're a DL shipper? Where in my comment did I say you are "bashing" DF? You made a comment stating that people who think DF love each other are making too much of their relationship. I was simply asking if you feel the same about those who think DL love each other. The only thing that's canon between DL is one night of sex on a pool table, so anything else is interpretation of subtext, just like the only thing that's canon with DF is that they are friends so anything else is interpretation of subtext. If you can make a judgement about DF shippers I can ask if you hold that same judgement of DL shippers.

    It amuses and pisses me off to no end that people keep saying that asking someone a question or disagreeing is being "hostile" or mean or whatever else. It's an f-ing discussion thread. People are going to disagree, ask questions, ask for examples, etc. If you don't want to give examples or don't have any examples or don't want to answer the questions, that's fine. There's no need to turn it back on the person who asked and call them "hostile" because you don't want to keep the discussion going.
     
  11. aerie

    aerie Dead on Arrival

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    I voted Yes and Yes on both questions. I feel that Danny means a lot to Flack as a friend. They're best friends and it seems like an unconditional love and respect for each other. Sometimes I wish they had a backstory to explain why they're so close. It's a mystery to all of us, but it's something we question all the time. How deep does their friendship go?

    In my opinion though I feel like they're brothers . Like in the military, who ever you serve with becomes your family. The CSI: NY team are a family. And Flack just tends to play the big brother part,such as saving Danny's asses from getting in trouble, consoling him,giving him advice, etc. He sort of makes up for what Louie may have lacked as an older brother. Flack usually is the one with the rational and logical thinking and Danny is the loose canon.



    So whatever love is between the two, it is pretty obvious they care for each other a lot.
     
  12. Faylinn

    Faylinn Adam Fangirl Super Moderator

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    Hmm, very interesting. Maybe Flack unconsciously gravitates toward Danny because there's a rift between himself and his brother(s), and this is an outlet for the love and friendship he's missing from him/them...

    Sorry if someone already said that. I read the responses to this thread before but haven't been back. :p In fact, someone probably did say that...Oh well, I'm posting it anyway. :lol:

    LOL, multiple asses. :p Thanks for the laugh. ;)

    Yeah--so maybe Flack unconsciously seeks Danny out to fill the void left by his (presumed) lack of a close relationship with his brother, and Danny responds because he needs to fill the void left by his lack of a close relationship with Louie...

    I'd love to see that as well--really, I don't think you can go wrong exploring their friendship. I'd love to see more about how they became friends and I'd also like to see more evidence that it isn't one-sided (since I hope it's not :p).

    ***

    Also, in a general and totally-not-singling-anybody-out-and-being-sooo-mean way: I see a hell of a lot of discussion about question number one ('Does Flack love Danny?') that has nothing to do with the possibility of question number two ('What if Danny had bewbs?'). However, I don't see the slightest problem with discussing the possibility of question number two for any character(s) on this show. It can be an interesting topic of discussion if people don't get defensive.

    Also, implying that a thread (which has contained a great deal of discussion about everything from the brotherhood between cops to family dynamics to, yes, even the possibility of romance between those same cops) was merely a way of sticking slash in the forum is insulting, and it's bound to get people all riled up--if anything, the D/F fans are being more careful than ever in here, and last time I checked, we have the right to post our opinions, too.

    Personally, I'm 'getting a little sick' of the way threads get derailed all of the time because someone comes in making accusations about the opinions/motivations/methods of other posters.
     
  13. Sammy11

    Sammy11 Police Officer

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    As has been said, it isn't whether Don Flack wants to bend Danny Messer over the hood of his car - let's face it, that’s not love, in any way shape or form, that’s lust :devil: - it's are there some feelings there that go beyond the normal working relationships you have with your colleagues. I go out drinking with my work mates, even discuss my private life with an honoured few but I don't and wouldn't risk my career or life for them. Now this is perhaps because I don't venture into a job that puts my life in the line of fire, and I would imagine that if you choose to do those sorts of jobs then yes, the bonds you form with your colleagues are deeper than the average “office, 9-5” Joe. I have made some very close friends at all my places of employment though, people I see in my free time, put myself out for when they have spent time in hospital or been through difficult and painful times, they are after all my friends, I love them, I wouldn’t do it if I didn’t.
    You spend most of your waking hours at work (just like we did at school, think of all the friends, crushes and vendettas that are made in that place) it would be weird not to make and keep friends, there is also a statistic out there (buggered if I can remember what it actually is :rolleyes:) that states that work is the most likely place to meet your future partner (as a single woman in my work place you have no idea how scary that is!! :eek:) and lets face it, it’s probably true, you see people at work in their true light, happy, sad, arrogant, back stabbing, you see all your colleagues at their worst and their best, so it isn’t unreasonable that you would find someone at work and make a decent enough judgement about them as to whether a relationship is going to happen.

    It is not reasonable then to think that Flack loves Danny, taking away any undercurrent of Slash, as Faylinn pointed out this is not a slash thread regardless of anyone’s feelings on the subject, Flack is continually there for Danny (I’ve said before I think Flack also loves Stella), whether to protect Danny from himself or from other people. They socialise with each other outside of the working day, now I think someone pointed out that with the sort of jobs they do may not allow an awful lot of time for socialising, which may mean they lack friends who are outside of the force but surely it means that the bonds they form are stronger? No one wants to be lonely after all.

    Apart from Stella and Mac (who we know are friends outside of the office) Danny and Flack are the only other pair that we know socialise together, Basketball, pool, even perhaps golf. In ‘All in the Family’ Flack seemed to know his way around Danny’s apartment. Danny didn’t seem to think it was odd that Flack had gone snooping around, if one of my colleagues had my landlord open my apartment and went digging around in there regardless of if it was for my own good, I’d be pissed off! But Danny reaction wasn’t like that at all, he seemed to understand that it was what Flack does, when Flack bends the rules a bit for Danny and Danny excepts that and takes the offer of help. Whenever he needs a shoulder to lean on he knows that he has Flack, and I agree with Faylinn I would like to know that isn’t one sided, I like a lot of people on this board were, annoyed when Danny left Flack at the hospital with Mac and didn’t stay himself, but then that’s typical Danny behaviour really, not being able to face the bad stuff. Perhaps he couldn’t see the guy who is usually a rock for him become dependant on machines and so on, and in all fairness he did only disappear when Hawkes returned to say that they though Flack would be ok. Although I have to say I thought that was pretty poor behaviour on Danny, shame on TPTB for that, the guy had just seen his brother beaten up, lost one of his good friends (again he carried on socialising with Aiden after she left) to a murdering rapist and then another one of his friends is blown up… you’d think he’d have wanted to stay there!?!? But maybe TPTB didn’t want to make it all about Danny? I dunno… :confused:

    Flack looks like he practically broke every driving offence to get to Danny and Hawkes in ‘In the Deep’. His "...I heard what happened" shows that he isn’t just about the crime and justice, he wanted to make sure his buddy was ok (I’m sure he was concerned about Hawkes also).

    Their friendship has been consistent from the 1st episode (not including the cross over with Miami as Flack wasn’t in that) and it is used time and time again. Flack jokes around with everyone on the team, he even has digs at them as we see with him and Hawkes, but Danny is the only one (apart from Stella who I think is sometime Stel) that Flack gives nicknames too, that he jokes at his expense, Danny doesn’t seem to mind, I know in ‘Can you hear me know’ Flack/ Eddie has a dig at Carmine rather than Danny with the Staten island comment, but Danny doesn’t get offended because I guess as we know when our friends make jokes at us, it’s done with affection.

    In ‘…Come around’ that is not a polite drink after work, that’s a wind down after a bad day. There is no “hello, you ok?”, Flack is straight in there with a joke. They don’t have to do the niceties, they aren’t needed.

    The one thing I have noticed, that with all the teasing and the fooling around Flack has at Danny’s expense he never belittles him. He always takes what Danny says and considers it, I mean surely now Flack must have realised that Danny has absolutely appalling character judgement :rolleyes:, but he still asks him (the only example I can think of is ‘Rain’) what he thinks. Again the only person that I can think of that Flack treats like that is Stella. Mac, Lindsey and Hawkes maybe aren’t belittled but he wants them to back it up or in Mac’s case he’ll follow the order but you know if he agrees or not :D, Danny or Stella tell Flack some thing he is onto it. Just an observation I have made.

    I think it comes down to the actors too, Carmine and Eddie have a great chemistry, and some of their stuff, for instance, in ‘You Only Die Once’ is made up by them… the hallway “she got teeth?” comment was all Carmine’s own, for those that may not be aware.

    So yes I personally do think Flack loves Danny, taking away any slash/pairing overtones(I’ll discuss that in the relevant thread :p), the evidence (of friendship and Flack's feelings for Danny) is there in all four seasons. Now like Faylinn I just want to find out if Danny loves Flack.

    Regarding the subtext and reading into whether or not there are any relationships (as in couples) in the show, subtext is what fuels those pairings, and IMO it should stick to subtext, I watch the show for the crimes and the who dunnits as I'm sure the majority of people on here (like xfcanadian ) aren't interested with who is sleeping with who (and any D/F fans probably got into the pairing as a fun thing, like the D/L contingent). I guess what i'm trying to say without offending anyone, that whilst the majority of people voted yes, according to the poll there are a lot of people who don't see what I see, my mum for example doesn't but then she does tend to fall asleep... my dad on the otherhand sees the friendship and the buddies element (in fact he likes it) but when I jokingly said about them as a couple he looked at me as if I was mad.

    Sorry bit of a monster post but I had to get my thoughts out of my head.
     
  14. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    I wasn't looking for just one answer when I set up the poll. I was looking for discussion about what seemed to me to be a very deep friendship between two men on screen, which is something we don't see all that often. I didn't see a reason not to bring it up just because some people do ship them. To be honest, a poll "Does Lindsay love Danny?" would be just as valid.

    I was actually mostly interested in the psychological aspect of how we'd be reading Flack's behavior if Danny was a woman. I thought that was kind of an interesting angle and something that hadn't been broached before. Discussion is organic, though, and I think this one has been interesting.

    The poll isn't set up so that you have to answer 'yes.' Obviously, people answered 'no' to both questions. And that's valid. This:

    is definitely a fair argument for voting no.

    Just wanted to clarify my position in starting the thread/poll.
     
  15. snowbird

    snowbird Witness

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    Ok breaking off from current discussion just to state my reasonsing for answering the poll. I answered yes for the first question, because there is a strong bond between them. It's a best friend kind of love, one that I have with my best friend. For the second question I went with the second no, simply because I don't see their love as being anything more than their best friend love. I had to think between the no's for a bit, but I just don't think anything from the show portrays slashly love, which is why I rely on some of you girls to provide that :p. I just don't think it's as simple as making Danny a girl to make them go at each other.
     

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