Do you believe in God?

[Jacquie]

What I find interesting here, from my prospective, is that some of the people who no longer believe in God were raised Catholic. And I also can see that some of you are our future scientists and good for you . But is the reason you don't believe in God anymore a failing on your churches part to not let you have an open mind.

I had a conversation with a customer a while ago who is a practicing Catholic and she is aware that I'm a lapsed Anglican. We got discussing my feelings on where the Anglican Church of Canada is going with regards to some of the infighting that is going on over various subjects, homosexual priests being one of the reasons for the fighting. Anyways she got talking about homosexuals and the fact that there seem to a lot of them around these days and starting saying that it must be something in the drinking water. When I told her it had nothing to do with drinking water but was the way they were hard wire at birth she seem like she was going to debate it with me. So this was clearly her beliefs from her teachings from church. So is it that a lot of Catholics are more closed minded because of there upbringing.

I also had a former employee who seemed like she was willing to question her beliefs after her grandmother died. She didn't like it that her grandmother wasn't going to heaven straight away. Again she is Catholic. I don't know which way she has decided to go as I'm no longer in touch with her. But again it is interesting to note that she was raised Catholic and is questioning her teachings.

As I said earlier on I was raised an Anglican. My oldest sister and my brother are in the not sure category for their beliefs. My older sister is still a believer as are my parents. My parents are the only ones that are still involved in the Church every week.

I don't think I've done post this long before. But religion is an interesting subject and I'm enjoying everyones comments. For and against

 

[Gaelen]

Well, I was brought up as a religious person, though most likely due to influences from other cultures, I may have become slightly more "corrupted" or rather, more tolerant of things which I really shouldn't be - that is according to my religion.

E.g, I'm supposed to be very anti-homesexual, but I'm not - I have gay friends and I don't see them as doing anything "wrong" at all.

There's always an on-going battle between tolerance in this age and the religions which do not change over the years. I think that's a cause of conflict too. People nowadays think differently - although some may be more accepting and tolerant, some are not.

As man evolved, so did his concept of a god. He no longer needed something that explains things, but something to hold on to, so he would know that his life had a purpose (keep in mind that those were harsh times).
Nowadays, people don't need a god that much anymore. Hence the upcoming of all the atheists.
Hey wait! What was the question? :lol: (sorry for the history lesson here, kids )

I think that's true - we seem to have mentally evolved to the extent that some have tried to "play god" what with the breakthroughs in science and technology. At this point, it seems we are looking for something to hold on to rather than guidance (are we that proud?).

I don't think I've made any sense -- it's late and my brain's turning to goo.

 

[shazza_018]

With the emphasis on trying.
Sorry if I rambled, but English is not my first language (it's not even my second!). This would've been easier if this were in my first language.

English isn't my first language either so no worries there lol

On another note: what part do you disagree on?

HAHA - you not gonna believe this but I forgot lol...my head hurts from talking too much yesterday so..I can't remember :lol:

Here I agree with both of you. But it makes one wonder: at which point does faith become a religion?

Probably when an "God" gets involved or the calling of a "God" and ritual practice becomes part of it....I hope you get what I mean....

What I find interesting here, from my prospective, is that some of the people who no longer believe in God were raised Catholic. And I also can see that some of you are our future scientists and good for you . But is the reason you don't believe in God anymore a failing on your churches part to not let you have an open mind.

I don't think I've done post this long before. But religion is an interesting subject and I'm enjoying everyones comments. For and against

Please continuing discussing about the Catholic religion...I find it very interesting that those who are born Catholics start reject their faith....I think as you mentioned it probably down to the Church..

Well, I was brought up as a religious person, though most likely due to influences from other cultures, I may have become slightly more "corrupted" or rather, more tolerant of things which I really shouldn't be - that is according to my religion.

E.g, I'm supposed to be very anti-homesexual, but I'm not - I have gay friends and I don't see them as doing anything "wrong" at all.

Well yes our religion is against homosexuality but I have gay and bi friends, I don't see them are "wrong" either...I don't think your "corrupted" I think things some issues get mixed in with culture and sometimes this leads people to believe that something that is "culture based" is "religion based" --hope this makes sense lol

There's always an on-going battle between tolerance in this age and the religions which do not change over the years. I think that's a cause of conflict too. People nowadays think differently - although some may be more accepting and tolerant, some are not.

Indeed, thats so true....I think we see the world through a different perspective to our parents and our grandparents to are more tolerent of issue they would be tolerent of (!)

I think that's true - we seem to have mentally evolved to the extent that some have tried to "play god" what with the breakthroughs in science and technology. At this point, it seems we are looking for something to hold on to rather than guidance (are we that proud?).

thats true as well, I agree with you on that...

I don't think I've made any sense -- it's late and my brain's turning to goo.

HAHA - your making sense! lol

 

[carolina]

at which point does faith become a religion?

when the faith is put into writting. when there is a building where people can meet. when there is a man or a woman claiming he knows more about it then others. when people give name to the believe.

Have you ever considered any other religions outside Christianity?!

I never purposely learned about other religions. Christianity is most spread in my country so you get to see lot of the opinions and the people - some I met could scare you away from religion for life.

some things I learned about Buddhism I liked. I also had a semester long lesson (do you call it that?) on Judaism.

I was raised non-religiously. both my parents are baptized - Daddy is Catholic, Mum is Calvinist. but they never practiced.

but as I said in my first post I dont believe in organized faith. I dont think it is a way to go for me

may I call you Carly too?

of course you may, Shazza. I meant you as all of you. that is the problem with English, you never know whether its singular or plural with this word

 

[_Hush_]

What I find interesting here, from my prospective, is that some of the people who no longer believe in God were raised Catholic. And I also can see that some of you are our future scientists and good for you . But is the reason you don't believe in God anymore a failing on your churches part to not let you have an open mind.

You made quite a point here. I too was "raised" Catholic. My parents aren't really religious but sent me to a Catholic school because of the quality of the education. The fun part was that my religion teacher actually tolerated my visions and as long as I brought up good arguments for my "not-believing", I got high grades.
I think that my not-believing didn't result from failing of the church. I realised at a pretty early age that praying to a god just didn't do it for me and that I'd rather waste my energy on something else. But the obligated visits to church and the endless sermones didn't do my vision on Catholicism any good.

On another note: what part do you disagree on?

HAHA - you not gonna believe this but I forgot lol...my head hurts from talking too much yesterday so..I can't remember :lol:

Please try and remember, because you got me really curious here. What I stated was a scientist's point of view, so I'm interested in how you're gonna debate that.

I think that's true - we seem to have mentally evolved to the extent that some have tried to "play god" what with the breakthroughs in science and technology. At this point, it seems we are looking for something to hold on to rather than guidance (are we that proud?).

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but I'll comment anyway.
I think no more needing guidance is a sign of evolution rather than pride. The more science evolves, the more man learns to think for himself and no longer needs something/-one to guide him. The good thing about religion is that it teaches about morals and ethics. But those behaviour guidelines are the basics of every religion, and can easily be acquired without religion or even faith.
So are we that proud? Sure, but there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you can consider yourself as a decent human being, with the right morals and ethics without needing guidance from "a higher being", there's nothing wrong with a little pride.

 

[shazza_018]

I think that my not-believing didn't result from failing of the church. I realised at a pretty early age that praying to a god just didn't do it for me and that I'd rather waste my energy on something else. But the obligated visits to church and the endless sermones didn't do my vision on Catholicism any good.

And thats your belief but its ironic that so I've heard of a lot people, who were either raised catholic / or had catholic schooling...reject the faith....I still wonder why this is..

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying, but I'll comment anyway.
I think no more needing guidance is a sign of evolution rather than pride. The more science evolves, the more man learns to think for himself and no longer needs something/-one to guide him. The good thing about religion is that it teaches about morals and ethics. But those behaviour guidelines are the basics of every religion, and can easily be acquired without religion or even faith.

I disagree with you on this and agree with what Liffy said...I don't think morals and ethics can be acquired without guidlines and rules (note I DID NOT say religion)....I don't think the that man no longer needs God is a sign of evolution...I think it's man's pride that makes him no longer need/want god..

So are we that proud? Sure, but there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you can consider yourself as a decent human being, with the right morals and ethics without needing guidance from "a higher being", there's nothing wrong with a little pride.

I sorta agree with this in parts...but you know pride leads to arogance...Arogance can be a bad thing, right?!

 

[_Hush_]

I disagree with you on this and agree with what Liffy said...I don't think morals and ethics can be acquired without guidlines and rules (note I DID NOT say religion)....I don't think the that man no longer needs God is a sign of evolution...I think it's man's pride that makes him no longer need/want god..

Morals and ethics can easily be acquired by upbringing. If your parents and your school did a good job raising you, you should have the right ideas about how you treat the people around you and how to treat your environment. No need to have it written down explicitly. And don't forget that we still have a justice system. You can't go running around annoying people or worse without repercussions.

I sorta agree with this in parts...but you know pride leads to arogance...Arogance can be a bad thing, right?!

And continuing the spelling debate from the other thread (yes, I am that evil )
Arrogance is indeed a bad thing, but I don't think pride is. If you're confident about yourself and sure about your ideas, a little pride is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Gaelen]

Yeah, whatever I posted before - mind went to goo. Ever know what you really want to say but can't for the life of you put it into words? Yup that's me.

Morals and ethics can easily be acquired by upbringing. If your parents and your school did a good job raising you, you should have the right ideas about how you treat the people around you and how to treat your environment. No need to have it written down explicitly. And don't forget that we still have a justice system. You can't go running around annoying people or worse without repercussions.

Yes, true but those that are bringing you up must have the morals and ethics for them to pass it down onto their children. There has to be an origin of it somewhere, and I think it has to be written down somewhere (take the law for example - it has to written down or be challenged three ways from Sunday).

You can't go running around annoying people

Haha! Yes you can! I do it all the time ! :lol:

 

[shazza_018]

And continuing the spelling debate from the other thread (yes, I am that evil )
Arrogance is indeed a bad thing, but I don't think pride is. If you're confident about yourself and sure about your ideas, a little pride is nothing to be ashamed of.

GAH!!! so I missed the R I thought it was 2 r's but I put down one instead
YOU ARE EVIL!! :guffaw:

Morals and ethics can easily be acquired by upbringing. If your parents and your school did a good job raising you, you should have the right ideas about how you treat the people around you and how to treat your environment. No need to have it written down explicitly. And don't forget that we still have a justice system. You can't go running around annoying people or worse without repercussions.

Yes, true but those that are bringing you up must have the morals and ethics for them to pass it down onto their children. There has to be an origin of it somewhere, and I think it has to be written down somewhere (take the law for example - it has to written down or be challenged three ways from Sunday).

I have to agree with Liffy here as he said what I was about to say next...you have to be brought up with morals and ethics to be able to pass them on to your children. There has to be an origin for it somewhere, I like Liffy I think it has to be written down somewhere, he gave the example of the law

You can't go running around annoying people

Haha! Yes you can! I do it all the time ! :lol:

HAHA! me too! I annoyed Nat soo much yesterday! but I had a headache but the end of it! :lol:

 

[allmaple]

I have to agree with Liffy here as he said what I was about to say next...you have to be brought up with morals and ethics to be able to pass them on to your children. There has to be an origin for it somewhere, I like Liffy I think it has to be written down somewhere, he gave the example of the law

behaviour evolves just like physical traits. especially as a social species that lives in family units, there is more group selection. i once had someone ask me since i dont believe in god, what stops me from stealing and murdering people? probably the stupidest question i have ever been asked. other social animals have expected behaviour and consequences when these 'rules' are broken. we merely call them morals, ethics, or laws because we have the language to do so.

i did not abandon my faith because the catholic church failed me in some way, i just never had it. i was in catholic school from kindergarten to grade 4, and i never believed what i was being taught. in church, i never prayed, never thought there was anyone listening who cared. i also never kneeled when you are supposed to in catholic mass, i refused to do it. but my mom made me when grandma was with us.

while i couldnt care less what other people believe, im not gonna lie, i do have a problem with the way some people interpret their religions. im not going to be accepting of people who use their religion to hate and discriminate a person for something they cant change. unfortunately this happens much too often. also people who use their religious texts to change or discredit science. sorry, but if you can push your id movement but ignore the fact the bible says the world is flat and pi=3 im not going to take you seriously. but im not going to bother you either.

 

[Gaelen]

i do have a problem with the way some people interpret their religions. im not going to be accepting of people who use their religion to hate and discriminate a person for something they cant change. unfortunately this happens much too often. also people who use their religious texts to change or discredit science.

I have a big problem with people who use religion as a means to get away with doing things otherwise wouldn't be accepted by twisting words etc. We have to face the fact that the religious words are ambiguous and it's up to the individual to decipher it for him/herself. It's when you got those few people who decided the words can be twisted to justify the obvious WRONG they're doing that I really get frustrated.

As for religion vs. science, well that argument is always going to be there too. In 20 years time, I doubt the debate would have gone anywhere

other social animals have expected behaviour and consequences when these 'rules' are broken. we merely call them morals, ethics, or laws because we have the language to do so.

That's a very good point.

 

[Stepherweps]

I believe in God and live relgiously. I'm a Christian, and have been for almost six years now, I was brought up as Presbyterian, but I am moving to a Free Methodist Church, I will be getting Baptised there soon. So yeah, I am a strong believer in God and I live religiously.

 

[shazza_018]

Okay I not sure if I can/should do this but here goes ....I found a few interesting things in my Ethics textbook after I got bored of reading what I need to know for the exam :

Taken from "AS/A2 Philosophy Of Religion and Religious Ethics - Study Guide"

"Kants Moral Arguement"

(for those of you who don't know: Emmanuel Kant was an 18th Century German Philosopher)

A point from the book

"- God must exist to ensure that all can achieve that which they morally require to pursue - the greatest happiness. Not all virtuous acts would lead to happiness hence the necessity for the possibility of a Heaven with God in which all is good and happy"

Okay I don't know why I bought that up on that I've read it here but I like to hear what ya'll think....

Also question for ya'll

Is it possible to start believing in God because of religious (spiritual) experiences? (I hope ya'll understand what I mean, I know I didn't word it right )

 

[_Hush_]

YOU ARE EVIL!! :guffaw:

:devil: :lol:

Is it possible to start believing in God because of religious (spiritual) experiences?

What do you understand under religious/spiritual experience? (maybe a small example?)
For me personally, there's no such thing as a religious experience, since I believe that everything can be rationally explained. (Maybe not with our current science, but we'll get there eventually)
What comes up in my mind is near death experiences. I've read cases in which people who weren't religious at all, suddenly started to believe in God. They all claim to have seen a bright, white and warm light and believe have have seen a preview of heaven.
Well, let me burst your bubbles, because the white light is nothing more than a chemical reaction in your brain. People just interprete it that way because of how they were raised and personal experiences and memories.

Quote: i do have a problem with the way some people interpret their religions. im not going to be accepting of people who use their religion to hate and discriminate a person for something they cant change. unfortunately this happens much too often. also people who use their religious texts to change or discredit science.
I have a big problem with people who use religion as a means to get away with doing things otherwise wouldn't be accepted by twisting words etc. We have to face the fact that the religious words are ambiguous and it's up to the individual to decipher it for him/herself. It's when you got those few people who decided the words can be twisted to justify the obvious WRONG they're doing that I really get frustrated.

I completely agree and actually have nothing more to add.

Adorable_Crazy, I already like you. Be prepared to answer tons of questions.
Why is it that I'm so fascinated with religious people? :lol:

I'll comment on Kant tomorrow. I never liked the guy's theories, and I'll tell you exactly why. Tomorrow.

 

[allmaple]

"- God must exist to ensure that all can achieve that which they morally require to pursue - the greatest happiness. Not all virtuous acts would lead to happiness hence the necessity for the possibility of a Heaven with God in which all is good and happy"

i do not agree with this at all. all we have is this life so i am going to make the best of it. if people live their life in anticipation of heaven as a reward, doesnt that make everything they do an ultimate selfish act? you may be genuine, but in the end you are expecting some kind of reward that may or may not exist. i just try to be a descent person, and i expect to be treated the same. although, the promise of a beer volcano and stripper factory in pastafarian heaven is quite tempting... :guffaw: