Do you believe in God?

[carolina]

I dont believe in organized faith so Im not religious at all

I dont belive in god(s) either. I used to say that I believe in Eros - as in greek God of Love, the son of Aphrodite, but then I read that Eros originally was part of the creating force, kinda Love itself, so no gods after all

I do believe in Love, miracles and balance

 

[xfcanadian]

thankfully the flying spaghetti monster works by unintelligent design he was drunk after all...

:guffaw: ok, this just made me laugh...so many people try to push ID, that they forget you could argue unintelligent design just as well.

Wow, so many atheists here...not a surprise, since it is a sciency show. Logically I fell religion and the idea of God is man made, and probably doesn't exist. But that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a purpose for it. There is a difference between religion and spirituality. BIG difference.

My parents made me go to sunday school...for like 7 years, until i was confirmed. Blah, i was pretty much born an atheist, and resented being there. That just made me turn away from religion. They hated me :lol: I asked too many questions...like how Adam and Eve were genetically possible, and how does evolution fit into all of this.

I see so much hate from religion, I don't understand why society is going backwards into this irrational dark ages thinking. We are in the age of information, lets use this! Not stick our heads in the sand and follow propaganda. For instance, the US push for abstinent programs, yet the US teen pregnancy rate is similar to third world countries. Countries with more openess towards sex have a MUCH lower rate (after accounting for population, Canada's rate is HALF, and we are open about teen sex). This backwards thinking creates more problems. And I don't get why people are so hung up on homosexuality. It is such a small part of the bible, and it isn't even clear that it's mentioned. Plus, I don't think Jesus even mentioned it, he taught love not hate. I think if Jesus really did exist, he would be shaking his head right now.

Some things i have seen on the web...

-i have been told i will burn in hell, and i need to find jesus (is he missing?) several times. This is usually a response for gay rights or i mention my atheism. It is funny telling an atheist to burn hell, since we don't believe hell exists.
-I have seen science, evolution, and even Obama (i think they are just racists) being called satanism, or evil, and people who support these will burn. The irony is strong, since they are using a computer on the internet. I am betting they use medicine the evil science has developed.
-people use the bible to justify racism, homophobia, and sexism
-people who think because they know the bible, they are qualified to know science. It is really stupid when people think the bible is absolute and it debunks all scientific research.
-that science is trying to destroy God and religion, and scientists are plotting this. (seriously...)

I don't care if other people are religious, but it bugs me with the science thing, like trying to get religion taught as science, as well as the total blind faith that goes on. It isn't necessary, there is no reason religion can't be looked at critically. Change doesn't mean the destruction of religion...people are fearing too much, and christianity is becoming more and more crazy. Its seems like just one big fear factory to control people's thoughts.

Basically, you can't prove God exists, and you can't prove that God doesn't exist. There is no reason to be so tunnel visioned...and schools should introduce philosophy classes, instead of trying to get rid of all religion, and teach them all. That way we aren't so ignorant and it opens a dialog of discussion.

 

[shazza_018]

Okay this is goes to be a very long post :lol: , just a little warning....but first of all, let me say I'm not at all surprise that there are alot of Atheist here...Its a sciency show so I'd kinda except it...and I'm surround by Atheists in school so I kinda use to it

I believe that there is a God, although I am not the most religious person out there. i have my share of sins that probably assured me a one way ticket to hell :lol:

Indeedy, God knows how many so-called "sins" I've commited in my life :lol:

I don't believe however in some things that are written in the Bible. I can;t say that I have read it, but it was still written by human hand (no matter that it was with divine inspiration or not) and most importantly IT IS INTERPRETED BY HUMANS. Priests or not, we are all bound to make mistakes and I cannot confide and believe whole heartedly in what was written by man.

I see what you mean, its was written by human so thats justification enough for you to not whole-heartedly believe in it...I think thats the main difference between Christianity and Islam...The Qu'ran is believed by muslims to be the direct word of God because the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was illiterate, so there was no way he could have written the Qu'ran himself. There are no differences between the different copies of the Qu'ran, so obviously it hasn't been changed by humans over the years..

Moving on, I believe in tolerance. I accept Buddhism, Muslim, Jew and whatever you believe in. I believe in my God, and my vision of him and you can believe in yours no matter how he's called Buddha or Allah. I don't care. At the end of the day the basic idea is pretty much the same: a superior spiritual force that keeps an eye over us and over our actions.

Agreed tolerance of others and their religions is important...no matter what they called their god..

To conclude (finally) I have noticed that nowadays there is this trend to show off that you are a religious person, that you go to church, that you respect every single religious holiday written in the calendar. If a person does that with me, my first thought won't be "Wow! What a good Christian" it will probably be "Way to brag yourself about it."

Religious belief it's a very intimate thing for me. I don't like to show my relationship with God, and I don't like to see others' either. You can say that if I don't like to talk about it God will punish me and blah blah. If there is an all-knowing God out there, he knows that I believe in him and that I respect him and for me that is all I need to know.

I know what you mean.. But because of the way I was brought up and because of the way I talk about my religion in religious education classes, people assume I'm really religious..but I know what you mean about saying that religious belief is a very intimate thing for you...I'd like to think it was for me too .

Some things i have seen on the web...

-i have been told i will burn in hell, and i need to find jesus (is he missing?) several times. This is usually a response for gay rights or i mention my atheism. It is funny telling an atheist to burn hell, since we don't believe hell exists.

:wtf: :guffaw:some people are so ignorant......haha I've been told that "I need to find Jesus" a couple of times or that I need to believe in the "one true God"...and not in Islam and Alllah :vulcan:...like I said people are so ignorant!...

-I have seen science, evolution, and even Obama (i think they are just racists) being called satanism, or evil, and people who support these will burn. The irony is strong, since they are using a computer on the internet. I am betting they use medicine the evil science has developed.

Well I've seen science and evolution too...but I still believe in God...I think its all about faith and getting your head around the idea of God existing - but to some people thats something they find hard to do... The Obama thing seems racists

-people use the bible to justify racism, homophobia, and sexism

Yep. seen that happen alot and apparently Christianity is not racist or sexist but....*sighs*

-people who think because they know the bible, they are qualified to know science. It is really stupid when people think the bible is absolute and it debunks all scientific research.

Well its obvious why they think its absolute but as someone mentioned, its written by human hands so why believe its absolute?! and why reject science?!

-that science is trying to destroy God and religion, and scientists are plotting this. (seriously...)

I find that funny :guffaw:and I've heard a few Christians say it to me....

I don't care if other people are religious, but it bugs me with the science thing, like trying to get religion taught as science, as well as the total blind faith that goes on. It isn't necessary, there is no reason religion can't be looked at critically. Change doesn't mean the destruction of religion...people are fearing too much, and christianity is becoming more and more crazy. Its seems like just one big fear factory to control people's thoughts.

It bugs me that the science was the main arguement for you not believing in God, but moving on...I don't know about Christianity but I know in Islam the importance of knowledge and understand is highly recommended..I mean if it wasn't do you think the Muslims would have been able to build all these beautful mosques and buildings you see in muslims countries?! The architecture and the calligraphy you see on some of these buildings is mind blowing.....haha okay I'll stop now but bottomline you can believe the science and still believe in God...

Basically, you can't prove God exists, and you can't prove that God doesn't exist. There is no reason to be so tunnel visioned...and schools should introduce philosophy classes, instead of trying to get rid of all religion, and teach them all. That way we aren't so ignorant and it opens a dialog of discussion.

Can I just say one this, your talking about "being tunnel visioned" let me asking you something in the nicest way possible without offending you or anyone else (apologise if I do! ) Right when I use to take religion class about a year ago with all the other students, btw religious education is compulsory in our country till your 16 so basically you have to do it, Alot of the Atheist were general disrespectful towards all other religions...you know they would just sit at the back of the class and you know make comments that generally offended alot of people....I mean I know they don't believe in God but couldn't they atleast have tried to understand why other do?!

Also I study Ethics at the moment, which is very interesting....I think Philosophy would have been something I would love to have done but they dropped the course of Philosophy and Ethics now they just do Ethics and Islam (easy pass for me )...but seriously Ethics is very deep and it looks at alot of issues (abortion, euthanisa, stuff like that)...We also discuss Sexual Ethics, Religious Ethics and soon Islamic Ethics...

I could go on and on about this topics but I'll stop there :lol:

 

[_Hush_]

I see what you mean, its was written by human so thats justification enough for you to not whole-heartedly believe in it...I think thats the main difference between Christianity and Islam...The Qu'ran is believed by muslims to be the direct word of God because the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was illiterate, so there was no way he could have written the Qu'ran himself. There are no differences between the different copies of the Qu'ran, so obviously it hasn't been changed by humans over the years..

I can see you're very open to debate, so let me ask you, honestly. Do you (just you, in your own mind, not thinking about what other people thaught you) actually believe that Allah wrote the Qu'ran? If not, how do you believe it came to exist? (Please don't be offended by this, I have a very curious nature. )

Alot of the Atheist were general disrespectful towards all other religions...you know they would just sit at the back of the class and you know make comments that generally offended alot of people....I mean I know they don't believe in God but couldn't they atleast have tried to understand why other do?!

I'm not quite sure how old you are, but I'm thinking 17-18? (Not that this has anything to do with it, I'm just trying to deduct the age of the morons who were offending people) The thing is, it's hard to make your own opinion about religion. It requires a whole lot of thinking and questioning yourself, in order to find a possible answer. And generally (!), most teens haven't been there yet. Based on what you said, I don't think those kids had thought their remarks through so you shouldn't be offended by ignorant people.

I saw this bumper sticker recently: Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. :lol:

 

[shazza_018]

I can see you're very open to debate, so let me ask you, honestly. Do you (just you, in your own mind, not thinking about what other people thaught you) actually believe that Allah wrote the Qu'ran? If not, how do you believe it came to exist? (Please don't be offended by this, I have a very curious nature. )

Hmmm nope I'm not offended! lol but good question ahaha my mind went blank there....hmmm well I don't believe that Allah "wrote" the Qu'ran, but I believe that the Qur'an is the word of God past on to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel...do you see what I mean?!..GAH! its kind of complicated and since you've stated your quiet the optmist, its not gonna be easy for you to understand what I'm saying but I'll explain more if you need me to ....

I'm not quite sure how old you are, but I'm thinking 17-18? (Not that this has anything to do with it, I'm just trying to deduct the age of the morons who were offending people) The thing is, it's hard to make your own opinion about religion. It requires a whole lot of thinking and questioning yourself, in order to find a possible answer. And generally (!), most teens haven't been there yet. Based on what you said, I don't think those kids had thought their remarks through so you shouldn't be offended by ignorant people.

Yep, I'm 17 lol, Yeah I see what you mean. I know I should get offended by these morons but you know it does get to you when it happens, lesson and lesson for like 2 years...Alot of people think that Religion shouldn't be compulsory to study... and I can see why thats a good thing but I also see why making it compulsory is a good thing....I mean I know maybe it wasn't best to ask but I just wanna know why there is so much hatred for religion?! But then again I do understand why there is for Christianity....alot of people made some good points about that and then there's my own religion...which has it extremists and terrorist that make the majority look bad...Generally Islam is suppose to be a religion of Peace (not War) but when you guys see the coverage of stuff like 9/11 and other so-called "Acts Of Terrorism", Its obvious why my religion seems unappealling.....

I saw this bumper sticker recently: Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. :lol:

LOL - thank for that :lol:

 

[_Hush_]

I mean I know maybe it wasn't best to ask but I just wanna know why there is so much hatred for religion?!

Talk about one hell of a question!

There are a lot of aspects to be considered with that subject. First of all, as we already stated: ignorance. From both sides. I have found that whenever I discuss religion, the other party always tries to convince me that their religion is better. But then when you're stating arguments to shake up their theories, they come up with irrational arguments (e.a. "Jesus is the son of God, because it says so in the Bible" ).

Religious ignorant people are usually quite convinced that their religion is the right one and the only one to go with (that includes muslims, christians AND atheists). Which brings me to my next point: intolerance.

Intolerance is a direct consequence of that ignorance.
What man does not understand, man attacks. It's (sadly enough) human nature. But I love to believe (!) that we can be better than that. Education and ethics are very important in order to achieve this. People are offended way too quickly these days (remember the whole cartoon riot in Denmark?), and lack patience. What you believe is what you believe in. You shouldn't care about what others say about your religion, since it's your own personal belief. And if you believe strong enough, no one should be able to change your mind. So why care about what others say?

There are probably more arguments, but my mind went blank. *needs food*

 

[shazza_018]

I need to go to school but I thought'd I'd quickly make a few points before I go to my Ethics class

Talk about one hell of a question!

HAHA - yes I can ask some complicated stuff too

There are a lot of aspects to be considered with that subject. First of all, as we already stated: ignorance. From both sides. I have found that whenever I discuss religion, the other party always tries to convince me that their religion is better. But then when you're stating arguments to shake up their theories, they come up with irrational arguments (e.a. "Jesus is the son of God, because it says so in the Bible" ).

Yep, that happens alot to me to but I think I justifiablely argue my beliefs and my belief in God....

Religious ignorant people are usually quite convinced that their religion is the right one and the only one to go with (that includes muslims, christians AND atheists). Which brings me to my next point: intolerance.

Ofcourse, I find it more obvious iin Christianity - I read a lot of stuff that leads me to believe that they're are very intolerant of other religions, thats not to say Muslim AREN'T like this....Some Muslims are also convinced that they're religion is the right one and the one to go with... and don't get me start on Atheist... :lol:

Intolerance is a direct consequence of that ignorance.
What man does not understand, man attacks. It's (sadly enough) human nature. But I love to believe (!) that we can be better than that. Education and ethics are very important in order to achieve this. People are offended way too quickly these days (remember the whole cartoon riot in Denmark?), and lack patience.

I know what you mean, what scare us, we don't like to believe in...People do get offended way to quickly although the example you use of the cartoons was offensive, I think it got blown out of proportion by muslims

What you believe is what you believe in. You shouldn't care about what others say about your religion, since it's your own personal belief. And if you believe strong enough, no one should be able to change your mind. So why care about what others say?

There are probably more arguments, but my mind went blank. *needs food*

Yeah I know I shouldn't care what others say but me is just as curious as you Would like to hear more from your arguement you haven't completely convinced me yet!

*wanders off to school *

 

[carolina]

I just wanna know why there is so much hatred for religion?!

I think there are 2 aspects of it - at least in my mind

1. hatred between religions
2. hatred towards church and/or religion

1. I think that when you believe in somethings it takes 100% of you. wheter you are vocal about it or not, faith of any kind, be it science, God, nature or the FSM is 100%. or you are uncertain about something. you can go from 100% to uncertain and back but when someone confronts your faith with theirs you protect your faith/believe. I think its natural. the difference is in form of the reaction - words, angry words, blows, war, agression etc.

because I think one would react differently to being told about the others beliefs - with interest or lack thereof, and to being told you are wrong. when it comes to beliefs you pretty much cant be wrong. you can do wrong in the name of your beliefs but that is a completly different matter

2. I think there is certain dislike to church and/or religion from people who belong to none especially if it tries to run their lives. Im from Slovakia and we have quite a strong Catholic heritage. which is fine by me as long as their beliefs are not interfering with things that are simply none of their bussines. another thing is that bigger part of my family is not religious but my aunt and uncle are and when I was in my early teens they tried to bring me on the right path - didnt work at all. I think it made me warry of the church and the people representing it even more

I think that faith is something that comes from within and since religion comes from the outside its kinda hard for me to grasp the concept of someone telling me what to believe in. it seems wrong on so many levels

 

[Elsie]

Hmm, so many differing points of view, as would be expected in a thread such as this. It's great to see such a (friendly) debate going on.

Personally, I believe in God. I don't live religiously, and am no longer active in my church. For many years I was involved in a Christian youth camp, teaching young people about God and the Bible, hopefully helping some of those young people on their spiritual journey and making lots of great friends in the process.

I became disillusioned with organised religion when I finally accepted that the majority of people that I interacted with were either intolerant beyond what I personally considered to be appropriate, or were simply not practising what they preach (myself included). However, I do believe that the Lord is there and has guided me, loved me, helped me, answered my prayers and accepted me, I therefore don't feel that I need the approval of others whose understanding of the Bible or of the forgiveness of sins differ from my own.

That is one of the interesting things and irritating things about the Bible, and one way that it differs from the Qur'an, is that there are many interpretations of it, and the wording can mean many different things. It's why people can easily find a quote to back up whatever type of intolerance they want to show. :lol: Someone else will then find another one that contradicts it. Ah the joy.

Anyway, I'll just add (relevant to your conversation above). Why be bothered what others thinK? Well, what some people think is often important in Christianity and probably other religions, is that having accepted Jesus into their lives they should be 'spreading the word' to those that haven't. I personally believe that it might be better to simply pratice what you preach and live a Christian (if that's your religion of choice) life through your actions and your treatment of others.

There was an interesting and tragic case recently in the UK where a young mother died having just given birth to twins, she had lost a lot of blood. The coroner at the inquest confirmed that there was every chance that she would have undoubtedly survived had she received a blood transfusion. Her religion prevented her from receiving blood, and neither her husband or parents would override her decision. She is dead, and her babies will never know their mother. That seems ridiculous to me. As ridiculous as anyone who now still believes that a higher power will provide for them instead of accepting tried and tested medical intervention. (I apologise in advance for generalising or simplifying this case, I admit I don't fully understand the reasoning behind not accepting blood products).

Religious extremists are an oddity to me too. I'm not sure why people think that they are pleasing a higher power and doing their duty by killing other people. The dichotomy of some religions is very interesting, but can undoubtedly be very destructive.

 

[shazza_018]

2. I think there is certain dislike to church and/or religion from people who belong to none especially if it tries to run their lives. Im from Slovakia and we have quite a strong Catholic heritage. which is fine by me as long as their beliefs are not interfering with things that are simply none of their bussines. another thing is that bigger part of my family is not religious but my aunt and uncle are and when I was in my early teens they tried to bring me on the right path - didnt work at all. I think it made me warry of the church and the people representing it even more

Well I can see what you mean.....Some people just don't like being told what to do

I think that faith is something that comes from within and since religion comes from the outside its kinda hard for me to grasp the concept of someone telling me what to believe in. it seems wrong on so many levels

Indeed faith is something that comes from within but I also think religion is something that comes from within and comes naturally.....I didn't believe what I was taught about my religion because I'm an idiot :lol: but I feel it within me, within my soul - that this is indeed the way I want to live my life...Like some of you I could have quized my parents on my religion but I didn't because I didn't feel there was anything about my religion that I really really didn't understand....

That is one of the interesting things and irritating things about the Bible, and one way that it differs from the Qur'an, is that there are many interpretations of it, and the wording can mean many different things. It's why people can easily find a quote to back up whatever type of intolerance they want to show. :lol: Someone else will then find another one that contradicts it. Ah the joy.

Exactly :lol: thats what confused me about the Bible.....You can find one quote and then another that completely contradicts it :wtf:..ahahaha well the Qu'ran can be read in its original language but I must say though there are a few different translations of it they don't differ too much from each other....

Okay shuts up again...sorry I keep pop in but this something I find very interesting to talk about

 

[carolina]

Some people just don't like being told what to do

noone likes to be told what to do and even less what to believe

but I also think religion is something that comes from within and comes naturally

see, this is where we disagree. I see religion (and a lot of ideas about God) as something very if not entirely human.

but I feel it within me, within my soul - that this is indeed the way I want to live my life..

and I think its wonderful that your beliefs and your religion are consistent with each other but I find it hard to achieve - or even understand. maybe I just didnt find the right religion

but to me a lot of things is coming with time. with the things I see, read, live. other Im quite uncertain about.

I think its a matter of not exactly preference but maybe need

 

[_Hush_]

Yeah I know I shouldn't care what others say but me is just as curious as you Would like to hear more from your arguement you haven't completely convinced me yet!

I'm not trying to convince you, I gave up trying to convince people years ago
But I love debating about it because I find the concept of religion itself so extremely interesting (from a third person view). The thing I said about caring was about own personal belief, not about religion itself. So I beg you, please continue debating

I think there are 2 aspects of it - at least in my mind
1. hatred between religions
2. hatred towards church and/or religion

Hey! I was going to say that! :lol:
No, serious, you said it better then I would have. And you're right and I'm going to take it a step further. Religion has become far too materialised. As soon as religion becomes an organisation run by people, I think it loses its purpose.

but I also think religion is something that comes from within and comes naturally

see, this is where we disagree. I see religion (and a lot of ideas about God) as something very if not entirely human.

And I'm going to disagree with both of you! :lol: (well, not entirely with carolina )
I think faith is something that comes from within, not religion. Religion is something man made in order to practice it in group. And I too believe that the concept of a god was made by man, in order to be able to blame someone if something happened that he couldn't understand. (This is not something my mind blurted out, but what I learned in Philosophy I) Things like rain, thunder and the changing of the seasons were all explained thanks to the gods.
As man evolved, so did his concept of a god. He no longer needed something that explains things, but something to hold on to, so he would know that his life had a purpose (keep in mind that those were harsh times).
Nowadays, people don't need a god that much anymore. Hence the upcoming of all the atheists.
Hey wait! What was the question? :lol: (sorry for the history lesson here, kids )


Here's aquestion I came up with while I wrote this:
- a true and pure religion, would it actually need a church/temple/mosque/... and people to run it, or would become a mess in no time?

Argh, gotta go to class. More thoughts to come. God(!), I love this thread.

 

[carolina]

- a true and pure religion, would it actually need a church/temple/mosque/... and people to run it, or would become a mess in no time?

faith needs no church (as in building) and no one to explain it to you. maybe someone to talk to you about it but the person doesnt necasarely need to share the faith with you. I think everytime people actually try to run something it becomes a mess, so - NO

I dont know much about buddhism, but I like to think that it is a way to go, not so much in content but in form.

I liked you history lesson its exactly my thoughts

and you can call me Carly

 

[shazza_018]

and I think its wonderful that your beliefs and your religion are consistent with each other but I find it hard to achieve - or even understand. maybe I just didnt find the right religion

Yes maybe you didn't find the right religion...Have you ever considered any other religions outside Christianity?!

The thing I said about caring was about own personal belief, not about religion itself. So I beg you, please continue debating

Sure I'll continue debating but GAH! I feel a little lonely debately with two Atheist :lol: Just kidding lol

As man evolved, so did his concept of a god. He no longer needed something that explains things, but something to hold on to, so he would know that his life had a purpose (keep in mind that those were harsh times).
Nowadays, people don't need a god that much anymore. Hence the upcoming of all the atheists.
Hey wait! What was the question? :lol: (sorry for the history lesson here, kids )

Not saying that I agree with it but I get the general gist of what you are trying to say ...

ahahaha thanks for the history lesson!

faith needs no church (as in building) and no one to explain it to you. maybe someone to talk to you about it but the person doesnt necasarely need to share the faith with you. I think everytime people actually try to run something it becomes a mess, so - NO

I agree with you completely on this matter Carly (may I call you Carly too? )...seriously...we were talking about this in a religion lesson and that was the exact answer most people gave that its needs to be a faith which has no religious buildings and no one explain it to you.

I dont know much about buddhism, but I like to think that it is a way to go, not so much in content but in form.

Buddhism seems a very "appealing" religion in form

 

[_Hush_]

Ok.. so class turned into a game of soccer...(don't ask :lol

Not saying that I agree with it but I get the general gist of what you are trying to say ...

With the emphasis on trying.
Sorry if I rambled, but English is not my first language (it's not even my second!). This would've been easier if this were in my first language.

On another note: what part do you disagree on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolina

faith needs no church (as in building) and no one to explain it to you. maybe someone to talk to you about it but the person doesnt necasarely need to share the faith with you. I think everytime people actually try to run something it becomes a mess, so - NO

I agree with you completely on this matter Carly (may I call you Carly too? )...seriously...we were talking about this in a religion lesson and that was the exact answer most people gave that its needs to be a faith which has no religious buildings and no one explain it to you.

Here I agree with both of you. But it makes one wonder: at which point does faith become a religion?