Dislike A Miami Character?

[FieldMouse]

While, I am for people using constructive criticism and back up what they say negatively about a certain CSI character, I would like to know how creating multiple threads about how "hot" and "sexy" Ryan Wolfe/Jonathan Togo is considered constructive. While, also putting up pictures of him shirtless, with his mom, or whatever pictures clearly taken from other websites, even from Jonathan's supposed Privately-set Facebook account. That's acceptable?

I think that I would be getting some negative responses, given that there are some girls from other CSI websites who would go out of the way to defend Jonathan/Ryan. Best of luck defending him with other reasons other than he's hot or sexy. Or that you are a huge fan.

There's a difference between posting that a character is "hot" in a character thread where the majority of posters are fans, and posting in a general discussion thread that a character "sucks".

Saying that a character is hot is not going to be intepreted as bashing a character, but simply saying that a character sucks can be seen as bashing by people who are fans of that character. We all need to be respectful of everyone's opinions, especially in a general discussion thread such as this where everyone has different opinions on the different characters. This is why we ask that people state their reasoning for disliking a character.


As for multiple threads, there are none. Once a thread hits 1000 posts, it is closed and a new thread is created. This is boardwide. Most of the characters and ships in the CSI franchise have had numerous threads. In other forums, some even have separate threads for discussion and pictures. (eg: Greg's discussion thread is on #15, and his picture thread is on #11) As for pictures being posted, quite frankly, it's hard to know the origin of a lot of them, especially ones obviously taken out in public. As for family pictures, the only family pictures that I've seen posted were ones taken from a screen cap on an actual episode.

 

[MiamiWolfe]

I wanted to post sooner but sometimes time can be is a short supply.

I really don't dislike any character per say. There are characters I like less than others and there are certain storylines I like even less, but each character individually has their good and bad moments.

Actually, I only see one thread devoted to Jonathan Togo/Ryan Wolfe. The content, if unacceptable, would have been changed at the direction of the moderators. It is apparently acceptable at this time - thankfully!

Ryan Wolfe is a very interesting character with a great deal of appeal. He is a flawed character who is constantly striving to do the right thing and learn from his mistakes. I'm delighted each and every time he is allowed to shine and I do hope the Rodriguez' comments about Togo deserving a really good story are taken to heart by TPTB. He's right!

He is portrayed by an exceptionally talented actor, Jonathan Togo. Jon has consistantly shown Ryan to be an intelligent, committed and caring member of the team. The rare instances when the script has provided him with really good material (WISC, Nailed, Going Ballistic/Resurrection, Time Bomb, are just a few - too few in my opinion), he's knocked it out of the park each time.

It's obvious he's not a favorite of yours, but your method of indicating that is a little combative and harsh, don't you think?

Yes, exactly, Delynn. He has actually been referred to by many as "one of the most realistic characters on the show/on television" due in large part to those flaws. He sometimes has an internal battle within himself trying to decide which is the best way to handle a certain situation. How many of us have been in a situation where we feel like we're caught between a rock and a hard place? A type of situation where one has to play each scenario over in their head dozens of times to decide which is the least risky of the two or the lesser of the two evils, if you will. This is what we often see Ryan doing when he's caught in such a situation. He's a relatable character in many ways.

YES! Bravo. Exactly my thoughts. Jon is an excellent actor! He has amazing acting skills, and he is a joy to watch. Even when the writers do him wrongly, he takes what he has and runs with it. The mentioned episodes, are just the start of his talents. There are SO many more... Not to mention, he IS very realistic. A character I, for one, can surely relate too. He's someone who will, more than likely, do the RIGHT thing- quite often- for the wrong reasons. (Such as WISC. He shouldn't have been in that position to start with, but he took care of it in the only way he knew how to). He's often mistreated, judged wrongly, and has taken mental abuse from just about every character on the show at one point... That's why it's so refreshing to have Jesse and Walter on his side! I am looking forward to season 9. If it weren't for Jon, I wouldn't be watching this show, I have to be honest. And while yes, I do find him attractive (hot, whatever you want to call it!), it has absolutely NOTHING to do with why I love the character of Ryan Wolfe so much. I'm so intune with his emotions, and feelings... it drags me through it WITH him. Unlike any other CSI character.... Exactly why he's my favorite.

And that being said, Jon Togo is the master mind behind all of it. Which is why I'm a fan of his. But we won't get into discussing HIM, because this thread is about CHARACTERS, not actors, that we dislike. It would be wrong to bring any thing about his personal life up at all.

Thank you BBS, Delynn and GNRF!! I couldn't say it better myself!!

While I think Jon/Ryan is "hot" and "sexy", I watch him more for the amazing character Ryan Wolfe is. Ryan is an every man; someone as was once described as someone just trying to make it through life. He is going to make good as well as poor decisions JUST LIKE THE REST OF US. This is what makes Ryan so human and hence so relatable, and realistic. He is rarely judgmental and doesn't think he is above the rules, which is more than I can say for other characters on the show. He has his flaws; he can be arrogant, grumpy and hot-headed but he also is loyal, caring and compassionate to victims and coworkers alike, even though he gets very little of it in return. All of this is credited to Jonathan Togo's tremendous acting talents; he does so much with so little. Any character growth and development is more of a credit to Jon's acting rather than through writing his character receives, which is poor to say the least. More than just "hot" and "sexy" I'd say.

Once a thread reaches 1,000 posts, a new thread is started. And it's not just that way for Jon/Ryan either. It's the same all over the site for ALL threads (not just the actor ones, but also spoiler threads, games threads, etc). So, its not multiple threads about one subject rather, each thread is an extension of the old one. Secondly, just because thread titles often have the word "hot" or "sexy" in it, that doesn't mean that this is all the fans discuss. Never judge a book by its cover, or in this case, a thread by its title. :lol:
Also, Jon/Ryan threads are not the only ones that have used those words in thread titles either.

Also, I have to add, every character on every show has threads. There is a picture thread AND a thread to discuss Eric Szmanda/Greg Sanders- BOTH active at the same time. I don't see an issue with it. I don't see an issue with Jon/Ryan's discussion/photo sharing either

Agreed. None of this is to unique to the Jon/Ryan thread. If one just visits it, we do more than discuss his physical attributes and share pictures. None of this is an issue until the mods tell us it is an issue.

I also have no respect or any real positive feelings for Eric. He runs second to Calleigh as my least favorite character. Any guy that would use his girlfriend to protect him when he is screwing up does not deserve respect. He is complicit in Calleigh's moral decay. He encouraged her to read the private, personal medical files without a warrant - just because he gave her permission to read his file doesn't mean he had the right to give permission for every other patient!


Eric has an elevated sense of himself and his place and authority in the world that is rivaled only by the worst spoiled 2 year old. It's not all about him and he doesn't have the authority to throw all the rules out the window just to get what he wants.

His treatment of Ryan is simply inexcusable. Especially when I feel if you added it up Eric is just as big a screwup, and in actuality maybe a bigger screwup, than Ryan. An individual was killed because Eric's stolen badge was used to get an advantage. It was stolen because of his irresponsible actions ("toothing" - no respect for women or himself). And that's only the beginning of his infractions. He has no right to judge Ryan or anyone else - ever!

I thought that I was the only one who saw Eric like this. That is my biggest frustration with Eric; it is okay for him to bend the rules and use "extenuating circumstances" as an excuse, but when Ryan used it.... Everyone of those CSIs have done things that would have gotten them fired several times over and Eric is no exception. He seems to get the protected from any consequence he would have to face, while Ryan is left twisting in the wind. With Eric returning to the lab full time and supposedly his relationship with Calleigh continuing, how will he get around the no fractionation rule? Will he bend this rule or figure the rule is meant for everyone but him and Calleigh? Or will Horatio turn a blind eye again? Only time will tell I guess.

 

[CRM]

No, Jonathan/Ryan is not really a favorite of mine. I just know that because of his looks, there have been a couple of "fans" who can't help but garner personal information about Jon and posting pictures of him from his Privately-set FaceBook account. And when they are called out, they get defensive and threatening, and some of them made their way into these boards. But, I refuse to further discuss about Jon in this thread.

I don't dislike Ryan, but I think that he needs to loosen up a bit, and I am happy that he has found friends that he can have fun with (Walter, Jesse, possibly the new M.E.). Jesse has pretty much been thrown into our faces, unexpectedly, in Eric's place. I actually find him to be lightweight compared to the heavy, and sometimes annoying, weight with Eric. But, I know that there was not much I know about Jesse (stalking, moving from L.A., etc). He was just thrown in and he leaves by dying. He could've been a good replacement for Eric. As stated, I really don't know much about Jesse enough for me to judge him or dislike him.

I do agree with alot of things regarding Calleigh. I understand that a part of being a CSI restricts the individual from showing emotions. I guess that, given Eric's long history of questionable interrogation tactics including his calling the dying guy an 'idiot' in Bad Seed, the rules don't apply to Eric. I swear, Calleigh is like a freaking robot! And Eric substitutes on whatever emotions she refuses to show. It's human nature to show emotions, but come on! Her extent of showing any emotions was in Stand Your Ground. And I like how Calleigh always looked vamped up during any Jake Berkeley episode (heavy eye make-up, black clothes, darker lipstick shade). I mean, is there some kind of statement here?

Somehow, the writers forgot that they were writing a show based on forensics and crimes scenes. We get more of those subjects in CSI: NY if the writers felt like taking a break from Danny/Lindsay. But more flashbacks and what ifs with Vegas, with DNA analysts going to the field, and hardly any personal focus on some characters. Especially Nick Stokes, whom I applaud for making Assistant Night Shift Supervisor. Even the writers don't do much with his character.

In CSI: Miami, it's like the Eric/Calleigh show. As a poster stated, it's all about Calleigh, or her boyfriend. But, also could be about Calleigh and some teenage singing sensation wanting to go acoustic or a poptart celeb in rehab. With Eric back in the picture, I cringe at another interrogation scene to go awry, more Eric/Calleigh, more elbow rubbing with talentless pop stars, uhm less forensics.

Stetler was no favorite of mine, but the lab does need another IAB to keep things in place. And no more of Horatio babying the CSIs! Even though, I wouldn't want to see a soap opera-like crime drama, I would like to see Yelina take Calleigh's place and not kill off Jesse so he can replace Eric for good. Either way, no more E/C already!

 

[Finch]

No, Jonathan/Ryan is not really a favorite of mine. I just know that because of his looks, there have been a couple of "fans" who can't help but garner personal information about Jon and posting pictures of him from his Privately-set FaceBook account. And when they are called out, they get defensive and threatening, and some of them made their way into these boards. But, I refuse to further discuss about Jon in this thread.

If you take issue with something that's been posted on these boards, feel free to contact me and my co-mod and I will look into it. We also advise that issues from other boards or websites not be brought here as it creates board/site wars, which we want to avoid.

----------------

I suppose I should give my 0.02 on my least favourite characters.

-Delko. I'm not a fan of characters who leave and come back to have their job handed to them. I know some things don't work out and we naturally return to what's familiar, especially if there's a comraderie between co-workers but I found it bad form for Horatio to just...accept Eric back. Since it wasn't on-screen, I'm to assume there was no formal interview process like there really should be. Then again, Eric is Horatio's brother in-law and BFF so who cares about protocol and conflict of interest.

Yeah, it's CSI:Miami so it's never based in reality but it grinds my gears that the character found little to no effort in getting his position back. Someone else really should have been involved in the re-hiring process as I highly doubt Horatio sits in his office all day long scanning through resumés. If he does, the guy has more jobs than I thought. Budget cuts? :lol:

Then again, the only character who's ever had trouble maintaining his/her position has been Ryan. There's no doubt in my mind that if Jesse/Calleigh/Natalia/whoever left and came back, Horatio would say "welcome back" and that'd be the end of it.

But my dislike of Delko pretty well started in season 1, because I've always found the character rather two-dimensional (and that's still not saying much). He's either the playboy or the pouty bulldog ready to pounce. I'm not sure if it's the actor or the storylines he's been given but he doesn't seem all that interesting to me and he never has. If there was one thing about the character I would change, it's his usefullness on the team. Perhaps they should hype up his specialties (tread patterns, underwater recorvery) more like in the second season -- he was much easier to swallow back then. I'd actually prefer it for all characters, even.

 

[Adamsgirl]

Why Is Jesse/Eddie “disliked”?

I thought I would post this here as unlike other certain message boards, I don’t believe I will be jumped on (well at least I hope not, LOL). Mods, please feel free to move this thread if you wish.

The title says it all… why is Jesse/Eddie so “disliked”? Disliked is the polite way of saying it as the character/actor has been regarded as much, much worse (b*ttface for example).

I’m not ashamed to admit that I am a massive fan of Eddie’s. I’ve followed his career from the days of Sunset Beach, Baywatch Nights to Third Watch, to Invasion and to CSI Miami. When I discovered he was joining the Miami crew I was ecstatic. As Eddie and Eva's characters were in a relationship in Third Watch, seeing these guys "together" again was a great aspect for me.

I’m guessing it didn’t help that TPTB/media described Eddie as “Adam’s replacement”. This was NOT the actors fault and it was unfair for some of Adam’s fans to instantly dislike him without seeing him in any episode. I’m not saying all of Adam’s fans reacted this way (look at my screen name, I’m one of them!)

I think it’s safe to say that we all agree that he had an awful lot of screen time during the first half of the season, again, not the actors fault. TPTB somehow felt the need to give the audience “information overload” and this didn’t help with the integration of the character.

If hardcore Miami fans took an instant dislike because of tabloid stories… why? David has had his fair share of “bad press” over the years and Jon Togo also had some unpleasant rumors during the 8th season but I don’t believe I witnessed fans of Miami reacting this badly to their characters and TPTB clearly haven’t got a problem with the actors. Tabloid stories are just that… stories. The public will NEVER know the complete truth. Why did some fans of the show judge his private life and then base that on the character?

I’ve also witnessed a LOT of E/C fans be VERY happy that Eddie is leaving. Why? He wasn’t a threat to the relationship and during Adam’s return toward the end of the season; Jesse didn’t feature very heavily at all, so I honestly don’t get that. I’m not saying ALL E/C fans here; again, I’m a fan of the ship. Having Jesse’s presence bought some great scenes in with Ryan and some much needed humor. This was a step in the right direction for the show.

Some fans have also stated that Eddie’s presence helped to lower ratings. The ratings for this season of Miami were low in general. TV ratings are low in general, not just for Miami.

I love Ryan, Natalia, Frank, Stetler (you get the idea), I’m a fan of the entire show and I agree that the characters just mentioned do not get the screentime they deserve. This was not due to the introduction of Jesse. TPTB have been putting these characters in the background for a long, long time now, so their lack of time for this season was more of the same (unfortunately). It had nothing to do with Eddie/Jesse.

There also seems to be a massive lack of respect for Eddie’s fans across the internet. I wonder how fans of the other actors/characters would feel if they read extremely hateful comments for their fave actor?

Why is there such a huge dislike? Media “stories”? TPTB? Fans? Hearing other insights would be great.

Apologies for this overly long post!

 

[silentdisco]

Re: Why Is Jesse/Eddie “disliked”?

The title says it all… why is Jesse/Eddie so “disliked”? Disliked is the polite way of saying it as the character/actor has been regarded as much, much worse (b*ttface for example).

Personally, I don't care for Jesse Cardoza the character. He's just not my cup of tea, and I didn't feel like he enhanced or added anything to the show. Eddie Cibrian, on the other hand, I have nothing against. I'm not what you would describe as a "fan" of his, but I don't dislike him.

I think it’s safe to say that we all agree that he had an awful lot of screen time during the first half of the season, again, not the actors fault.

This is part of why I wasn't very fond of Jesse. However, like you said, it's not Eddie Cibrian's fault, and I never saw it as his.

If hardcore Miami fans took an instant dislike because of tabloid stories… why?

Eh, I don't put too much stock in tabloid stories. Sure, there have been some things I've read about Eddie Cibrian that made me go "hmmm", but then I remember that I don't know the real story, and it's not fair for me to make judgements. Eddie seems like a perfectly nice guy and I have nothing against him.

I’ve also witnessed a LOT of E/C fans be VERY happy that Eddie is leaving. Why? He wasn’t a threat to the relationship and during Adam’s return toward the end of the season; Jesse didn’t feature very heavily at all, so I honestly don’t get that.

Well, I'm an E/C fan, but I wasn't particularly sad to see that Eddie was leaving because I didn't really care for Jesse, not because of anything to do with the E/C relationship.

Some fans have also stated that Eddie’s presence helped to lower ratings. The ratings for this season of Miami were low in general. TV ratings are low in general, not just for Miami.

Eh, I don't believe that. I think the lower ratings are a combination of things, like the CSI series starting to show its wear, the writers being lazy, etc.

I love Ryan, Natalia, Frank, Stetler (you get the idea), I’m a fan of the entire show and I agree that the characters just mentioned do not get the screentime they deserve. This was not due to the introduction of Jesse. TPTB have been putting these characters in the background for a long, long time now, so their lack of time for this season was more of the same (unfortunately). It had nothing to do with Eddie/Jesse.

I agree with you here. It's the fault of no one but the writers for pushing these characters away from the spotlight.

There also seems to be a massive lack of respect for Eddie’s fans across the internet. I wonder how fans of the other actors/characters would feel if they read extremely hateful comments for their fave actor?

I'm sorry you've come across this, it must really suck. I can't say I've noticed too much in the way of Eddie hatred on this particular forum (though correct me if I'm wrong), but I have seen some unfair assumptions about other actors around here in the past. I think it's important for everyone to remember that actors are people too, and that they don't control everything that happens on a show.

 

[Finch]

Thought it would be best to merge into this thread.

Interesting question, too. I figure it's similar to the dislike that some Speed fans had for Ryan when he came aboard. Ryan was technically a replacement to an empty spot held by another character but he wasn't necessarily there to 'replace Speed'. I know I had some negative feelings toward Ryan but as the years went on, he grew on me and now I don't have many problems with him as a character.

It's a shame that Jesse wasn't really allowed some more time for the fans to get to know him and for TPTB to develop him past one storyline. I really believe that the character could have taken on a lot more depth had they decided not to let Eddie go.

That being said, because of the Speed/Ryan debacle, I've had more of an open mind when it comes to new characters being introduced. I can see why others may not have liked Jesse (maybe they felt he was introduced too heavily, lack of chemistry, just didn't care for him or the actor himself) but I didn't think he was all that bad -- in fact, he revived the show for me. Though I should say that I did like the actor before he appeared on Miami (relatively big fan of Third Watch) so there may be some personal bias in there.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Some fans have also stated that Eddie’s presence helped to lower ratings. The ratings for this season of Miami were low in general. TV ratings are low in general, not just for Miami.

I think the biggest factor was the writers' strike. I think that hurt the ratings for tv in general because during the writers' strike, people found other things to do since they couldn't watch their shows... and they got into other things and just stuck with those other things and many didn't come back to the shows once they were back on new.

 

[CRM]

Here is what I don't get. If Eddie Cibrian/Jesse Cardoza was, in any way, responsible for the show's low ratings, then when was CSI: Miami considered to be the number one show, or one of the best shows, ever, as many people claimed it is? Then, there are some people saying that CSI: New York or the original are more likely to get low ratings and have their shows cancelled. Are the Bruckheimer team waiting until any of their shows become cancelled instead of ending them with a big series finale? And to get the writers to do their jobs poorly so their fans would stop watching the shows and cause these shows to be cancelled?

Half the time, I do blame the writers for some episodes being written poorly (Bad Seed, Point Of Impact). As I said before, I don't know much about Jesse enough to dislike him, but he was promptly thrown in our faces. I do question the mentality of some "fans" at the CSI: Miami wetpaint.com threads, who feel the need to create threads about how much they dislike Eddie/Jesse, referring him as SJ, or Stupid Jesse. Looks like these little girls got their wish now that Eddie would be leaving. These little girls haven't been posting since the news of it. Perhaps due to guilt or they may have been read by TPTB, who are looking for ideas to keep the show's ratings up. Either, TPTB rely heavily on what the haters think, or are being bombarded by E/C shippers to have more and more and more E/C in our faces in order to keep CSIM's ratings up. If the show is indeed the best or the most watched as some people claim, I question if it was because of Ryan's/Jon's good looks, Horatio's one liners, the beauty of Miami (when half of the show is filmed in L.A.), the fashionable environment. What is it, really?

CSI: Miami, to me, is a good show, though not one of my favorites. I favor NY more; I just like the way it looks (sophisticated, dynamics within a team), and the original is also good, though I'm not a big fan. I don't necessary dislike the CSIM characters, but to have the usual thrown in my face, with some badly written moments (E/C aarrrggghhh!!!) makes me question if the writers are so hard up on E/C, or are Emily and Adam themselves demanding more screentime. If I have to see another Ryan episode inside a burning building, I may have to make a YouTube video of aaallll those episodes with the song "Burning Down The House" by Talking Heads playing. But, I'd happily allow anyone to do that since I hardly spend time on YouTube anyway. I don't however miss Alexx examining dead bodies in the Everglades before a brush fire starts up. Point is, the writers are obviously running out of ideas, especially with Ryan, Natalia, Frank. All while giving more to Princess Calleigh and Prince Delko.

 

[Adamsgirl]

then when was CSI: Miami considered to be the number one show, or one of the best shows, ever, as many people claimed it is?

Miami was the most watched show in the world back in 2006. CSI Vegas was the most watched in 2007, 2008 and 2010. It does annoy me that TPTB still say Miami is the "most watched". Miami got that crown once, Vegas in all fairness has wiped the floor with them.

Are we really to believe that the writers/producers/showrunners do actually listen to fans? Ok, maybe they did with the Adam petition but if they paid true attention to fans wishes they would have seen that fans have been practically begging for Ryan, Natalia and Frank to be featured more for a good few years. If they paid true attention they would see and know the amount of fans that Togo actually has out there. If they paid true attention, they would realise that most fans do not like the direction the show is going and haven't for a good while.

At this point I believe TPTB do whatever the heck they want and Eddie was sadly a part of their strange "descision making".

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

At this point I believe TPTB do whatever the heck they want

I don't know about the Miami ptb, but that is definitely CBS' motto. Do whatever the heck they want and what the fans want be darned, with a few exceptions. Sorry... still bitter at CBS for the Criminal Minds mess.

 

[silentdisco]

At this point I believe TPTB do whatever the heck they want

I don't know about the Miami ptb, but that is definitely CBS' motto. Do whatever the heck they want and what the fans want be darned, with a few exceptions. Sorry... still bitter at CBS for the Criminal Minds mess.

Agreed completely. CBS doesn't give a darn about fans. And don't even get me started on their EPIC FAIL regarding Criminal Minds...UGH. You're not the only one who is still bitter. And there are more than other 40,000 people they're ignoring as well. :scream:

 

[greatfan]

^^
I'm sure it's CBS as well as TPTB at Miami.TPTB from Miami (as well as Criminal Minds) will pitch or sell their ideas to CBS. It's both that have been ignoring the fans.

 

[Blinded By Smoke]

It's CBS's AND the writers of their shows mottos, trust me. With As the World Turns, they tanked because when the fans screamed for them to go one way, they ran the other--- took the story line they KNEW would be hated and RAN with it. And the writers would get up during interviews and be cocky by saying things like "Oh well, you say you like it one way, we're going to do the opposite." and "CBS has no complaints..." Yeah well, see where they're at.. fifty something years and they are in the ditch. Filmed the last episode Friday....

CBS will never learn. They don't listen to ANYONE about ANYTHING. Well, they do SOME (IE, AR- which shocked me...). I don't know, but they really should listen to US more, after all, we do keep them going!!!

 

[greatfan]

Adamsgirl makes a very good point about the fans practically begging for Ryan,Natalia and Frank to be featured more.Why should those fans have to beg and be thrown crumbs. There needs to be more of an effort on the writers and TPTB part to please more fans.Of course everone knows that all fans can't be pleased all the time,but there needs to be more effort than what has been put out the last several seasons.