Did Danny Cheat? *416 Spoilers*

[PerfectAnomaly]

When did Danny bring up personal stuff at work???? The only thing I've seen is the birthday issue, which Lindsay brought up first.

Twice in 3x03 - Love Run Cold

At the cs:
Danny: "It's been a long time since I've stood up on a date"

In the lab's hallway:
Danny: "Lindsay Monroe! Can I talk to you for a second?"

It's true that they've both discussed personal issues at work, and I had no problem with Lindsay talking to Danny in the privacy of their shared office. Like I said in another thread, if one of them is avoiding the other there is no other place to discuss whatever is happening.

What really gets me though is Lindsay taking it to another level by making it obvious she's pissed at him in front of their co-workers, one of whom happens to be their superior. People can't escape talking about personal stuff at work, work takes up too much of their time to avoid it completely. But Lindsay lets her anger/hurt toward Danny interfere with work - she didn't follow Mac's order to get Danny caught up on the case. Her blatantly ignoring Danny in front of Stella didn't hinder her explanation of her findings; but making it obvious she has a problem with Danny puts their co-workers in an awkward position and that's not fair to them. There was no need for that behavior, it was extremely childish and unprofessional.

 

[Top41]

When did Danny bring up personal stuff at work???? The only thing I've seen is the birthday issue, which Lindsay brought up first.

Twice in 3x03 - Love Run Cold

At the cs:
Danny: "It's been a long time since I've stood up on a date"

In the lab's hallway:
Danny: "Lindsay Monroe! Can I talk to you for a second?"

Yeah, they all bring up personal stuff at work. I don't blame Lindsay for talking to Danny about their business while working on the case--he was participating in the conversation, too. Shoving the folder at him in front of Hawkes made her look like a bratty schoolgirl though.

I don't exactly see it as her standing her ground, though. If she really did want to just talk about them, why didn't she just say so? Instead, she tries to make him guess why she's angry, and then gets pissed when he doesn't. It would have been fine with me if she said that she was always there if he needed her about Ruben, but the point where she makes it about herself is when she starts to rip into him about him specifically going through it alone (i.e. not going to her).

I gotta say, much as I thought her technique was pretty shitty, that is something we women are known to pull. I've done it a few times myself and I know most of my female friends have as well. But...what rankles with me is the situation with Ruben. That's not something Lindsay has any right to get pissed off at him about, especially since she hasn't been there for him.

I agree completely with Bella363 that Danny and Lindsay need to work on their communication skills with each other. From the start, they've been pretty immature about their relationship from the teasing/flirting to the not communicating about deeper feelings. I don't believe Danny cheated because I think he assumed they weren't in a relationship, but that just goes to show how bad their communication with each other is.

After this entire conversation, (which only entailed her telling him he shouldn't go through Ruben's death alone, he should talk to her about it) she then declares she has to fall out of love with him....which I REALLY don't get. She doesn't know about Rikki, so that wouldn't infuriate her yet, and all she's going on is the fact that he won't grieve to her about Ruben....to me, that just didn't seem right. It seemed to me like a little kid not getting her way, and declaring, "you're not my friend anymore!" I really didn't see how that statement was justified, with or without monologue.

If she'd said all of that knowing about Rikki, it would be hard to blame her for reacting that way. But she's basically pissed because he's not confiding in her? He's not being a friend to her while he's going through what he's going through?

I also think that while Danny may have been her best friend, she's never been his. He's close to everyone on the team in different ways, but Lindsay really only has Danny, and it's only ever him being there for her, not vice versa.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

When did Danny bring up personal stuff at work???? The only thing I've seen is the birthday issue, which Lindsay brought up first.

Twice in 3x03 - Love Run Cold

At the cs:
Danny: "It's been a long time since I've stood up on a date"

In the lab's hallway:
Danny: "Lindsay Monroe! Can I talk to you for a second?"

Yeah, they all bring up personal stuff at work. I don't blame Lindsay for talking to Danny about their business while working on the case--he was participating in the conversation, too. Shoving the folder at him in front of Hawkes made her look like a bratty schoolgirl though.

I should have specified more what I was asking when I was wondering about personal things being brought up at work. What I meant was, When has Danny brought up personal issues at work and acted as unprofessionally as Lindsay did in Right Next Door? They've all brought up personal issues at work....there was Danny's incident with Rikki in All in the Family that he blew off work for, which is certainly unprofessional, but never did I see him acting as rude or childish as Lindsay did in this past episode. When they were in the office, sure they could talk about the personal issues, but in front of another co-worker....shoving something at him and blatantly acting immature in front of Hawkes is definately bringing up personal issues to work, and in a negative way.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, ok, personal stuff comes up at work, but the other characters manage to handle themselves when it comes to interacting with others, even with those issues. If I had been having a fight with someone I work with and acted the way Lindsay did in front of other co-workers, I would expect them to lose some respect for me and even be put off by my behavior, as Hawkes seemed to be when he watched Lindsay speak to Danny. It isn't the first time Lindsay's brought her personal baggage to work: In Silent Night, Lindsay does the same thing, snapping at Stella for asking whats wrong and telling her to "Leave me Alone!" Both Danny and Lindsay have had personal issues and troubles while on the job, but I've only ever seen Lindsay projecting it on everyone else and acting that unprofessional and immature about it. CSIs are adults, and even if she was having a justified feud with him, there was no excuse for her to act that immaturely about it.

 

[xfcanadian]

ok, now that my exams are done, i have more free time...and regretting my decision to take Biochem...

I choose 'Yes', based on MY own definition of cheating. There are several problems with this argument.

-everyone has their own definition of cheating, and morals
-some people have been in this situation in real life, so it fires them up
-everyone has their own biased towards different characters
-we don't know the exact status of the D/L relationship
-we don't know how much time they spend together outside of work

I consider any sex outside of a casual or serious sexual relationship to be cheating, UNLESS there has been explicit agreement to sleep with other people.

These two obviously have serious communication issues, but it does happen. Lindsay really reminds me of myself, maybe that is why i like her. She isn't my fave, and i like Danny more than her, but i do like her. She is typical what you would find in science classes, socially awkward and easily frustrated towards others. And she does well delivering her science lines in a convincing manner.

I don't want to believe that Danny assumed it was casual, because I don't think he is that stupid. I am sorry, but Danny telling himself, that he can sleep with other women because his relationship with Linds is only casual is really really stupid. And even if he thought it is just casual, it doesn't really matter, since Linds obviously doesn't. It is a jerk move on his part, and it makes him really clueless towards women. It is clear that he and Linds have been spending time together outside of work, and that he is responding. Linds wouldn't just consider him his BF out of the blue, and it isn't all her fault for feeling this. He even offered to make it up to her for forgetting her Bday. Even though she isn't the best communicator, i think she made it pretty obvious her intentions. So if he is just doing it for sex, then he is kind of using her, which is really crappy for her. I have been there, and done that...he needs to accept the consequences for not being able to keep it in his pants. I didn't find the shocked look on his face to be a response to Linds calling him his GF, but more of a 'holy crap, what did i do guilty' look, so I do think he realizes he cheated, or at least that he should have dealt with the situation better.

At least its good continuity! Danny has always been emotional, and prone to make bad decisions, and this was clearly a bad one. If he didn't want the hassle of an emotional Linds after him, well, don't sleep with her! It isn't her fault that he is...she isn't forcing him. Even with casual sex, females, and i guess some men have trouble with the emotions involved...especially at work. And him sleeping with Rikki?? Ohhh...that is a BAD idea. I think they have great chemistry, and the scene was HOT, but man, that is just an emotional nightmare, that won't end well. And he doesn't have to sleep with her, to comfort each other...that just makes him more of a man whore. He clearly isn't getting what the consequences of sex is. Especially since she just got off for stealing his gun, and attempted murder. Ethically for Danny this is a bad, he still is a cop.

Now, it doesn't make him a horrible person, and i am not going to scream asshole! at him, since it is a pretty realistic situation. I don't blame him, i blame human nature. Its full of shit like this.

As for the whole 'who is unprofessional'...er...i don't think you could argue that Linds was, but Danny wasn't. She shouldn't have stormed off in from of Hawkes, but he has had his moments, like ditching work to find Rikki and not reporting it. That could have gotten him fired! They have both had their own unprofessional moments.

And last, I found her monologue very good. I don't see how it was all about her, because it wasn't. Danny asked if she was upset, and she merely responded with her feelings towards him. It was partially about her, but how could she avoid that? I think she did what any rational (well, irrational :lol female would do, laid her cards on the table, and told her feelings straight up. She had the right to do this...she shouldn't have to take his crap, if she believes he is treating her unfairly, then she should have the right to call him out.

Overall, i don't think this relationship is a good idea, they clearly can't communicate, and i don't see this ending well...

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I consider any sex outside of a casual or serious sexual relationship to be cheating, UNLESS there has been explicit agreement to sleep with other people.

We don't know what Danny and Lindsay have or have not agreed upon. So I don't see how, by your own definition, Danny could be seen as cheating.

I don't want to believe that Danny assumed it was casual, because I don't think he is that stupid. I am sorry, but Danny telling himself, that he can sleep with other women because his relationship with Linds is only casual is really really stupid. And even if he thought it is just casual, it doesn't really matter, since Linds obviously doesn't. It is a jerk move on his part, and it makes him really clueless towards women. It is clear that he and Linds have been spending time together outside of work, and that he is responding. Linds wouldn't just consider him his BF out of the blue, and it isn't all her fault for feeling this. He even offered to make it up to her for forgetting her Bday. Even though she isn't the best communicator, i think she made it pretty obvious her intentions. So if he is just doing it for sex, then he is kind of using her, which is really crappy for her. I have been there, and done that...he needs to accept the consequences for not being able to keep it in his pants. I didn't find the shocked look on his face to be a response to Linds calling him his GF, but more of a 'holy crap, what did i do guilty' look, so I do think he realizes he cheated, or at least that he should have dealt with the situation better.

Danny and Lindsay not communicating about their relationship status is stupid on both of their parts, but I don't see how one of them thinking it is serious when the other doesn't makes either one of them stupid. We don't know if they've been spending time together outside of work. When Lindsay calls she asks Danny to lunch and says it's "her turn to buy," but that doesn't mean they are dating outside of work. I used to work with a woman and we'd go to lunch and take turns paying all the time. We're both heterosexual, so we were not dating. Friendships form at work and people often go to lunch with the same people and it means nothing other than they go to lunch together and enjoy each other's company.

How did Lindsay make her intentions obvious? How did Lindsay make it clear to Danny she considered him her BFF? Anna Belknap and Carmine Giovinazzo both said - post writers strike - that they had no idea if their characters were in a relationship or not, so I don't get the argument that it was obvious by their actions they are in a relationship and in love. It is possible for someone to like/love someone and the other person to be clueless about it. Again, it doesn't make either one of them a jerk or stupid, it just means they both suck at communication. And Danny wanting to make up forgetting her birthday can mean he's just a nice guy who doesn't want his friends to feel hurt.

At least its good continuity! Danny has always been emotional, and prone to make bad decisions, and this was clearly a bad one. If he didn't want the hassle of an emotional Linds after him, well, don't sleep with her! It isn't her fault that he is...she isn't forcing him. Even with casual sex, females, and i guess some men have trouble with the emotions involved...especially at work. And him sleeping with Rikki?? Ohhh...that is a BAD idea. I think they have great chemistry, and the scene was HOT, but man, that is just an emotional nightmare, that won't end well. And he doesn't have to sleep with her, to comfort each other...that just makes him more of a man whore. He clearly isn't getting what the consequences of sex is. Especially since she just got off for stealing his gun, and attempted murder. Ethically for Danny this is a bad, he still is a cop.

So Danny was supposed to magically know that if he and Lindsay had sex she would be in love with him? It doesn't automatically work that way. In fact, I would think more often than not it doesn't work that way. Danny isn't responsible for Lindsay's actions and feelings. And he doesn't owe her anything simply because she may feel something he doesn't. Also, Danny and Rikki sleeping together may not have been the best decision on either of their parts, but it was realistic because people seek comfort in times of grief and Danny and Rikki are connected by Ruben. I don't get how wanting to connect to someone emotionally and ease pain makes Danny a "man-whore" or an asshole or any of the other things people have been calling him. If Danny was a "man-whore" we would have seen him having sex with a lot more women than Lindsay and Rikki over the past 4 seasons.

And we don't know that Rikki was charged with attempted murder. She was charged with something, but I would guess her emotional state was taken into consideration, and I think it's pretty obvious Danny feels her emotional state was the catalyst for what she did and that she's not some callous, hardened criminal. Although, I agree that his higher ups might have a different opinion of any relationship with Rikki.

 

[Top41]

I don't want to believe that Danny assumed it was casual, because I don't think he is that stupid. I am sorry, but Danny telling himself, that he can sleep with other women because his relationship with Linds is only casual is really really stupid. And even if he thought it is just casual, it doesn't really matter, since Linds obviously doesn't.

Why is it that people assume Lindsay is the one in the know in their relationship? Why is Danny clueless or stupid or the one with the wrong opinion of the whole thing? There are two people in this relationship and just because Lindsay assumed something doesn't mean it's true.

It is a jerk move on his part, and it makes him really clueless towards women.

He'd hardly be the first guy... :lol:

It is clear that he and Linds have been spending time together outside of work, and that he is responding.

Now, if we knew that for sure that they were, I might agree that he cheated. But where on screen have we seen it? Have they mentioned dates, talked about hooking up after work, left the office together? Not once. So really, we don't know that they've been hanging out together.

Linds wouldn't just consider him his BF out of the blue, and it isn't all her fault for feeling this.

Why can't the same be true of Danny? The truth is, we've got two sides to this story and we've only heard part of one.

As for the whole 'who is unprofessional'...er...i don't think you could argue that Linds was, but Danny wasn't. She shouldn't have stormed off in from of Hawkes, but he has had his moments, like ditching work to find Rikki and not reporting it. That could have gotten him fired! They have both had their own unprofessional moments.

I think going off and trying to prevent a friend from doing something irrational with your weapon is different than slamming a folder into your crush's hand and huffing off.

Overall, i don't think this relationship is a good idea, they clearly can't communicate, and i don't see this ending well...

On that we can definitely agree.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

I consider any sex outside of a casual or serious sexual relationship to be cheating, UNLESS there has been explicit agreement to sleep with other people.

I definately agree with you there. I know that even if i was in a casual relationship and heard that my partner was sleeping with some one else, it would hurt and I'd consider it cheating. With Danny and Lindsay though, I fail to see how they were ever in a relationship, casual or no, to begin with. There just wasn't enough evidence for me to believe that they had done anything outside that one night of sex, and maybe getting a bite to eat some times together. There was never any declaration after Snow Day that they were even casually dating, so while I did feel sympathy for Lindsay when Rikki and Danny were together, I didn't consider it cheating.

I don't want to believe that Danny assumed it was casual, because I don't think he is that stupid. I am sorry, but Danny telling himself, that he can sleep with other women because his relationship with Linds is only casual is really really stupid. And even if he thought it is just casual, it doesn't really matter, since Linds obviously doesn't.

Again, this goes back to the question of whether or not there was even a relationship to misconstrue. Had Danny even thought he was in any form of relationship with Lindsay, casual or not, I don't think he would have had sex with Rikki. Danny does care deeply about the people he works with and is friends with, and I don't think he'd intentionally hurt anyone, even Lindsay, like that...which is even more evidence for me that he thought they were simply friends who'd had sex once, and not even a casual couple.

It is clear that he and Linds have been spending time together outside of work, and that he is responding.

How is this clear? What evidence was there that they spent time outside of work, besides Snow Day? The only person we know canonly for sure on the team that Danny spends time with outside of work is Flack. I would think if Danny and Lindsay were dating, there would at least be a scene of them out to dinner or on another "pool table date":wtf:...but we don't see any of that.

And where has Danny responded? Lindsay's efforts this season to flirt with him or make a move have left him giving her an awkward smile (condom spray) or telling her to cut it out and get back to work (when he saved Hawkes). I never saw him flirting back with her or doing the same things back to her, which to me would be responding or acknowledging that he knows what she is doing.

Linds wouldn't just consider him his BF out of the blue, and it isn't all her fault for feeling this.

For Lindsay, and alot of people (myself included) would think that having sex with a person means that there is a relationship going on. That's what I originally thought when I saw Snow Day-that they were going to be in a relationship. When season four started and I saw no evidence, that thought went out the window. But I don't blame Lindsay for holding on to her feelings about him. She falls for him in her own way, and assumes he feels the same because he slept with her, but never tries to examine their relationship further than what she already thinks it is. We never see them discussing what went on in Snow Day, we never seen them really talking about anything outside of work that might hint towards a relationship on the show.

It is Danny's nature to care about people he works with, and I think anything done after Snow Day was just following that up. He feels bad about missing her birthday (because she's obviously upset that he did) so he offers to make it up to her. In my eyes, Lindsay fell in love with him after Snow Day, and because he remained being the sweet natured guy he is seen as, she thought his feelings were the same for her. Yeah, Danny should have known that she might have gotten attatched after that night, but I don't think him not knowing specifically that she assumed that they were BF and GF makes him stupid.

I didn't find the shocked look on his face to be a response to Linds calling him his GF, but more of a 'holy crap, what did i do guilty' look, so I do think he realizes he cheated, or at least that he should have dealt with the situation better.

I don't think its him realizing he cheated, but more to the fact that Lindsay is going to consider it cheating, and then him thinking that he should have made it clearer early to her that he didn't consider them together. I didn't see guilt on his face, more surprise. Danny wears his heart on his sleeve, and it is usually easy to tell what he is feeling or going through (thats part of what makes Carmine such a great actor). Danny looked guilty in On the Job, when he realizes that Mac knows he disobeyed. He looks guilty in Crimes and Misdemeanors, when Mac discovers that he's gone on with the case even though he was told not too. Comparing those guilty faces to the one he makes in Right Next Door, I don't see guilt, but more shock.

And him sleeping with Rikki?? Ohhh...that is a BAD idea. I think they have great chemistry, and the scene was HOT, but man, that is just an emotional nightmare, that won't end well. And he doesn't have to sleep with her, to comfort each other...that just makes him more of a man whore. He clearly isn't getting what the consequences of sex is.

I do see how their sleeping together could end badly, but for me it doesn't really ring true. If anything, I see them coming to an understanding with the dynamic they have, and either accepting it or both moving on. I don't consider him a "man-whore" for sleeping with Rikki, either. Yeah, they might have found a different way to comfort each other, but that doesn't mean that their choice was a bad one. Like he says, he just wants to make the hurt go away, and you could take that as him trying to distract himself from the pain he feels by comforting the woman he feels that he cheated out of a future with her young son. If he was going to be considered a man whore, I'd think he'd be sleeping with alot more women other than Rikki...or his are they or arent they relationship with Lindsay would be more defined.

As for the whole 'who is unprofessional'...er...i don't think you could argue that Linds was, but Danny wasn't. She shouldn't have stormed off in from of Hawkes, but he has had his moments, like ditching work to find Rikki and not reporting it. That could have gotten him fired! They have both had their own unprofessional moments.

True, they both have had their unprofessional moments, but Lindsay's seem more self centered (she's mad at Danny, she's remembering her traumatic past,etc), and she's projecting it on people around her. If she feels she needs to be mad at Danny, fine, whatever, but don't throw a notepad at him and blow him off like an immature child in front of your co-workers.

And last, I found her monologue very good. I don't see how it was all about her, because it wasn't. Danny asked if she was upset, and she merely responded with her feelings towards him.

I didn't see how it was her showing her feelings toward him until the last line of how she's fallen in love with him. Before that, all she is doing is going on about he didn't come to her about Ruben and that "clearly he's decided to do it alone". To me, that was her butting into his business more than it was her genuinely being worried about him. If he wants to grieve alone, thats his business, and she should have simply said, "hey, i'm here if you need to talk, I think it would help you if you did talk to someone". Instead, she demands that he talk to her, and assumes that if he hasn't come to her then he hasn't spoken to anyone else. Of course, he has talked to others about it (Flack, Mac, Rikki), but Lindsay assumes that she's the only one he would talk to...and to me that screams self centeredness. If a close friend of mine or even someone i thought i was in a relationship with went through something like that, I wouldn't assume that I was the only person in the world he or she would talk to, and get annoyed when he or she didn't talk to me. I would think Lindsay would be more concerned with the fact that Danny might be bottling it all up inside and be worried that he should be talking to someone....not snapping at him for the way he chooses to grieve.

She had the right to do this...she shouldn't have to take his crap, if she believes he is treating her unfairly, then she should have the right to call him out.

I still don't see how he was treating her unfairly. He forgot her birthday, he skipped lunch with her, he didn't lean on her when Ruben's death happened. What other evidence is there that he's been treating her unfairly?

Overall, i don't think this relationship is a good idea, they clearly can't communicate, and i don't see this ending well...

Did you mean Danny/Rikki or the Danny/Lindsay?

 

[Ceindreadh]

For Lindsay, and alot of people (myself included) would think that having sex with a person means that there is a relationship going on. That's what I originally thought when I saw Snow Day-that they were going to be in a relationship

I don't think that Lindsey would assume that one night that happened maybe six months ago constitutes a relationship. If she's thinking that they're boyfriend/girlfriend then they must have been seeing/sleeping with each other since that time. Now maybe as far as Danny is concerned they're just 'friends with benefits' and he doesn't owe her an explanation, but TPTB haven't shown us one way or another and that's what's making this whole thing so frustrating. (well, that and the fact that I feel the main focus of a crime drama should be the crimes and not the shagging)

 

[kitsun3gari]

BIG FAT YES!
I HATE THIS SHOP OPERA THING.:censored:

 

[Surreal_44]

Part of the reason she "can't win whatever she does" for me is because I never believe Anna Belknap's performance. Her delivery almost always comes off as inappropriate to me. The big thing about the monologue for me, and other people have mentioned this as well, is that her reaction was more appropriate for her knowing about Rikki and Danny sleeping together. She doesn't. Being so pissed and hurt because he forgot her birthday, made lame excuses because he didn't want to go to lunch with her, and doesn't want to come to her with his grief, especially when it's only been a matter of a few weeks since Ruben was killed, to me comes off as petty and selfish. It's like she doesn't even try to understand or put his actions into context, she's just pissed because he's not acting the way she wants him to act. And when I add what she did to him in S3 and how he respected her space and choices, it just puts her actions on another planet of selfish and petty.

Forget possible romantic interest here between Danny and Lindsay. What would you, as a friend, allow for an "appropriate" amount of time to be shut out of your friend's life while they are obviously suffering and grieving?

A few weeks, whether it's been three or six would probably be too much, especially if you were close to that person and not used to being shut out of their life. Lindsay's frustration is a very human and realistic response for the situation she's been faced with.

She even says that she never expected him to not grieve. He's been going it alone, as far as she knows. Danny has turned away from everyone at work.

And er...in Season Three, I thought Danny was pretty dang pushy in "Love Run Cold". It was obvious that throughout the episode Lindsay didn't want to spend extra time with Danny and he kept pushing her and pushing her. He did back down finally, yes, but respecting her space? Not so much.

Also, I don't understand how "Danny tried to put it back on her."

He did. Follow my logic here, even if you disagree with it.

Lindsay, who has no canon proof of being a stalker or an insane person who assumes she is in romantic relationships with men she works with says that she is Danny's girlfriend.

This leads to the logical conclusion that while there may not have been much on-screen romance, there most certainly was off-screen romance. (This is allowed, since I doubt very much that Mac and Peyton fell into bed together as strangers. Not entirely relevant to the conversation at hand, but it serves as precedent for off-screen romance).

So now we have Danny and Lindsay as dating. As in boyfriend/girlfriend. Since Lindsay is not delusional and Danny is not a moron, this means there is a romantic relationship.

This means Danny should not be sleeping with Rikki. Since he should not be sleeping with Rikki and then you know, sort of lying to Lindsay (here I'm willing to be lenient on him since for all we know he may have managed to make it to the bike shop after doing the Horizontal Tango with his neighbor), he is in fact, cheating on her.

Ok. Now that we know Danny is cheating (from my perspective, at least), we go back to how Danny put it all back on Lindsay. He's being a jerk and is cheating on his girlfriend. He's feeling kinda guilty, maybe he's not feeling guilty enough and that makes him feel bad. He knows he's not being honest with Lindsay, so what does he say?

He puts his guilt on Lindsay, tries to make her feel unreasonable and mean and as Lindsay puts it "reduces her" in order to make himself feel better.

Again, him "putting it back on her," to me, implies that Lindsay knows about Rikki when she doesn't and implies that Danny is trying to hide his "cheating" when we don't even know Danny and Lindsay's status as a couple. Add the fact that Danny is clearly screwed up emotionally from Ruben's death and that I think Carmine Giovinazzo is an amazing actor, and Danny comes off as much more sympathetic to me.

Lindsay doesn't have to know about Danny cheating on her in order for him to turn his guilt around on her and become defensive. Hopefully in a few episodes we'll get it cleared up on if they are boyfriend and girlfriend for an absolute canon fact, so if I'm wrong about it...*shrug* I'm wrong about it.

One thing I agree with; Danny is emotionally screwed up, but it's just not an excuse. There are some things you do, and some things you shouldn't do, even if you are in excruciating emotional pain.

Probably what bugs me the most about Danny with Rikki is that he wasn't acting guilty in that scene with her. He was using those words to acquit himself and to make Rikki, who seemed far less certain than him, feel more comfortable with what they did. He whispered about her son's death as a lover, not as a man who is breaking under the guilt. Talk about manipulation. Danny's quite good at it himself.

 

[Springmoon]

I hate to say this, but it is the truth: having sex on a pool table after a night of tequila shots and a drunken bet does not a relationship make. Lindsay is no unseasoned virgin, and if she believed that she was Danny's girlfriend after that... well, she needs to grow up ASAP. Clearly, Danny's lack of obvious guilt means that the "relationship" was one-sided and he had no idea it existed.

 

[Top41]

Forget possible romantic interest here between Danny and Lindsay. What would you, as a friend, allow for an "appropriate" amount of time to be shut out of your friend's life while they are obviously suffering and grieving?

A few weeks, whether it's been three or six would probably be too much, especially if you were close to that person and not used to being shut out of their life. Lindsay's frustration is a very human and realistic response for the situation she's been faced with.

It would be if we'd ever seen her reaching out to him. We haven't on screen. She came in in "Child's Play," called his name as he was walking off and didn't go after him. Going by what we have seen on screen, we have never seen her reach out to him. How can she be mad at him for not reading her mind?

If Flack wants to get pissed at Danny, well, that would be understandable. If Mac does, I'd get that, too. Oh, but wait--they actually care about Danny, so it seems they're giving him some leeway.

She even says that she never expected him to not grieve. He's been going it alone, as far as she knows. Danny has turned away from everyone at work.

And isn't that his right? Or should she, girlfriend or no, dictate how he grieves?

And er...in Season Three, I thought Danny was pretty dang pushy in "Love Run Cold". It was obvious that throughout the episode Lindsay didn't want to spend extra time with Danny and he kept pushing her and pushing her. He did back down finally, yes, but respecting her space? Not so much.

He asked for an explanation for standing him up, which really, he was owed. He didn't push her into going out with him--she had accepted a date and not showed up. And when she finally did give him an explanation, he backed off rather graciously with an offer to be there if she needed him. He didn't push it again.

He did. Follow my logic here, even if you disagree with it.

Lindsay, who has no canon proof of being a stalker or an insane person who assumes she is in romantic relationships with men she works with says that she is Danny's girlfriend.

No, she didn't. She said, "don't try to make me into some clingy, shallow girlfriend." There's a difference.

This leads to the logical conclusion that while there may not have been much on-screen romance, there most certainly was off-screen romance. (This is allowed, since I doubt very much that Mac and Peyton fell into bed together as strangers. Not entirely relevant to the conversation at hand, but it serves as precedent for off-screen romance).

Aaaand here we go, outside of canon already. We can only go with what is on screen or referenced on screen. And we've seen next to nothing on screen, and gotten no references to dating off screen either. So already you're making a supposition, which you are free to do, but it's no more fact than people who are assuming the opposite.

So now we have Danny and Lindsay as dating. As in boyfriend/girlfriend. Since Lindsay is not delusional and Danny is not a moron, this means there is a romantic relationship.

No, what we have is two people who have possibly been dating. Say they have--that still doesn't mean they're on the same page. Most couples have an "are we exclusive" conversation at some point. If one wants to assume they've been dating, it's entirely possible they haven't had this conversation yet. That means Lindsay's not delusional, just presumptive and Danny's not a moron, just perhaps, not on the same page as Lindsay.

This means Danny should not be sleeping with Rikki. Since he should not be sleeping with Rikki and then you know, sort of lying to Lindsay (here I'm willing to be lenient on him since for all we know he may have managed to make it to the bike shop after doing the Horizontal Tango with his neighbor), he is in fact, cheating on her.

He shouldn't have lied to Lindsay, but just then probably wasn't the time to break the news to her. He could have told her later--except she very clearly wasn't willing to hear him out. I don't agree with your other assessments--Danny is not married and clearly in his mind not in an exclusive relationship, therefore he can sleep with who he wants. And no, it's not cheating.

Ok. Now that we know Danny is cheating (from my perspective, at least), we go back to how Danny put it all back on Lindsay. He's being a jerk and is cheating on his girlfriend. He's feeling kinda guilty, maybe he's not feeling guilty enough and that makes him feel bad. He knows he's not being honest with Lindsay, so what does he say?

He puts his guilt on Lindsay, tries to make her feel unreasonable and mean and as Lindsay puts it "reduces her" in order to make himself feel better.

No, that was her interpretation of it. Danny tried to get her to go to coffee with him. Now, we have no idea whether he was just trying to make nice or whether he was possible going to tell her what had happened with him and Rikki...because Lindsay never gave him the opportunity to speak.

And he didn't "reduce her"--he called her on her childish behavior.

Lindsay doesn't have to know about Danny cheating on her in order for him to turn his guilt around on her and become defensive. Hopefully in a few episodes we'll get it cleared up on if they are boyfriend and girlfriend for an absolute canon fact, so if I'm wrong about it...*shrug* I'm wrong about it.

I guess we'll see in upcoming episodes.

One thing I agree with; Danny is emotionally screwed up, but it's just not an excuse. There are some things you do, and some things you shouldn't do, even if you are in excruciating emotional pain.

Like chain yourself to someone who cares more about herself than you?

Probably what bugs me the most about Danny with Rikki is that he wasn't acting guilty in that scene with her.

Perhaps because he had nothing to feel guilty about?

He was using those words to acquit himself and to make Rikki, who seemed far less certain than him, feel more comfortable with what they did. He whispered about her son's death as a lover, not as a man who is breaking under the guilt. Talk about manipulation. Danny's quite good at it himself.

Rikki seemed guilty about taking advantage of him, and Danny, who clearly was willing to do anything to ease their mutual hurt, did his best to assure her that she wasn't.

I hate to say this, but it is the truth: having sex on a pool table after a night of tequila shots and a drunken bet does not a relationship make. Lindsay is no unseasoned virgin, and if she believed that she was Danny's girlfriend after that... well, she needs to grow up ASAP. Clearly, Danny's lack of obvious guilt means that the "relationship" was one-sided and he had no idea it existed.

Agreed. Danny is so emotional that I can't believe he'd willfully cheat on Lindsay and feel no remorse. I think he's been pulling away from her for weeks, hoping to extricate himself from whatever situation they're in. People can change their minds--sometimes you start to date someone and realize they're "not all [you] thought [they'd] be." Carmine's words, not mine.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Part of the reason she "can't win whatever she does" for me is because I never believe Anna Belknap's performance. Her delivery almost always comes off as inappropriate to me. The big thing about the monologue for me, and other people have mentioned this as well, is that her reaction was more appropriate for her knowing about Rikki and Danny sleeping together. She doesn't. Being so pissed and hurt because he forgot her birthday, made lame excuses because he didn't want to go to lunch with her, and doesn't want to come to her with his grief, especially when it's only been a matter of a few weeks since Ruben was killed, to me comes off as petty and selfish. It's like she doesn't even try to understand or put his actions into context, she's just pissed because he's not acting the way she wants him to act. And when I add what she did to him in S3 and how he respected her space and choices, it just puts her actions on another planet of selfish and petty.

Forget possible romantic interest here between Danny and Lindsay. What would you, as a friend, allow for an "appropriate" amount of time to be shut out of your friend's life while they are obviously suffering and grieving?

A few weeks, whether it's been three or six would probably be too much, especially if you were close to that person and not used to being shut out of their life. Lindsay's frustration is a very human and realistic response for the situation she's been faced with.

She even says that she never expected him to not grieve. He's been going it alone, as far as she knows. Danny has turned away from everyone at work.

Since we're talking about whether or not Danny cheated, why should I "forget possible romantic interest here between Danny and Lindsay?"

It's funny that you can presume to tell me "three or six weeks would probably be too much" time for me to allow a friend to shut me out, but a fictional character (Lindsay) gets until the end of time to push people away because of a tragic event. You don't know me or what I would do. I would tell my friend I was there if they needed to talk and that I thought that talking with someone, even if it's not me would help. I wouldn't tell my friend that "I'm mad at myself" for being their friend and that I "have to learn to let that go" because they aren't grieving the way I want them to grieve.

And er...in Season Three, I thought Danny was pretty dang pushy in "Love Run Cold". It was obvious that throughout the episode Lindsay didn't want to spend extra time with Danny and he kept pushing her and pushing her. He did back down finally, yes, but respecting her space? Not so much.

Danny wanted an explanation for being stood up and then he wanted clarify where they stood because he felt there was something happening between them. After she didn't give him a reason and did the lame ass "it's not you it's me" line and said she couldn't be with him he told her - as she was walking away from him - that he was there for her. To me, that is in no way pushy. In fact, Danny could've gotten down right pissed at her for standing him up with no explanation and he didn't. That Danny, what a bastard.

Also, I don't understand how "Danny tried to put it back on her."

He did. Follow my logic here, even if you disagree with it.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't address me like I'm a moron who can't follow your oh so intelligent posts. It would really help me take you more seriously.

Lindsay, who has no canon proof of being a stalker or an insane person who assumes she is in romantic relationships with men she works with says that she is Danny's girlfriend.

Um, was that really necessary? I never said she was a "stalker" or an "insane person." I can call myself Carmine Giovinazzo's girlfriend until I'm blue in the face. It won't make it true or make him believe we're in a relationship. While it's obviously not a direct paralell, the same holds true for Lindsay. Even though she and Danny had sex, Danny may not see her as his girlfriend. Lindsay interpreting sex as them being boyfriend/girlfriend doesn't make it true.

This leads to the logical conclusion that while there may not have been much on-screen romance, there most certainly was off-screen romance. (This is allowed, since I doubt very much that Mac and Peyton fell into bed together as strangers. Not entirely relevant to the conversation at hand, but it serves as precedent for off-screen romance).

I'll repeat Kimmychu's statement. "FANON is not CANON." If it didn't happen on screen, it.did.not.happen.at.all. Unless they tell us/show us in future episodes that there was more to Danny and Lindsay than one time sex on a pool table there wasn't anything more than one time sex on a pool table.

So now we have Danny and Lindsay as dating. As in boyfriend/girlfriend. Since Lindsay is not delusional and Danny is not a moron, this means there is a romantic relationship.

As I and others have said repeatedly, it is very realistic and human for Danny and Lindsay not to be on the same page regarding their relationship status. They don't have to be "delusional" and "a moron" not to have clear communication.

This means Danny should not be sleeping with Rikki. Since he should not be sleeping with Rikki and then you know, sort of lying to Lindsay (here I'm willing to be lenient on him since for all we know he may have managed to make it to the bike shop after doing the Horizontal Tango with his neighbor), he is in fact, cheating on her.

This is all based on your speculation of what happened/is happening between Danny and Lindsay, it is not fact. If they did not agree to be in an exclusive relationship, sleeping with Rikki is not cheating. There is also no proof he "lied" to Lindsay. Lindsay asked to meet him for lunch before his shift that morning. It was obvious Danny had just gotten up, so there would have been plenty of time for him to do the things he told Lindsay he had to do. Were they lame excuses and could he have put them off to have lunch with Lindsay? Yes. But lame excuses aren't the same thing as lies. If you're saying he lied, you're assuming he spent the whole morning, through lunch, in bed with Rikki. I don't see why someone who doesn't like the idea of Danny being with Rikki would assume that so easily.

Ok. Now that we know Danny is cheating (from my perspective, at least), we go back to how Danny put it all back on Lindsay. He's being a jerk and is cheating on his girlfriend. He's feeling kinda guilty, maybe he's not feeling guilty enough and that makes him feel bad. He knows he's not being honest with Lindsay, so what does he say?

He puts his guilt on Lindsay, tries to make her feel unreasonable and mean and as Lindsay puts it "reduces her" in order to make himself feel better.

I'm sounding like a broken record here, but "we" don't know Danny is cheating. He showed up to work and Lindsay was acting pissed at him - in front of their co-workers no less. The only reason he can think of that Lindsay would be mad at him is because he forgot her birthday and he declined her lunch invitation. He doesn't think these things are big enough deals for her to act the way she does. Unless Danny suddenly became psychic, he didn't know at that point that Lindsay was pissed that he wasn't coming to her for comfort or that she's in love with him. It's totally believable he'd think she was over reacting. That is not "reducing" her at all.

Again, him "putting it back on her," to me, implies that Lindsay knows about Rikki when she doesn't and implies that Danny is trying to hide his "cheating" when we don't even know Danny and Lindsay's status as a couple. Add the fact that Danny is clearly screwed up emotionally from Ruben's death and that I think Carmine Giovinazzo is an amazing actor, and Danny comes off as much more sympathetic to me.

Lindsay doesn't have to know about Danny cheating on her in order for him to turn his guilt around on her and become defensive. Hopefully in a few episodes we'll get it cleared up on if they are boyfriend and girlfriend for an absolute canon fact, so if I'm wrong about it...*shrug* I'm wrong about it.

He became defensive because she was acting like a 10 year old having a temper tantrum and he thought it was because he forgot her birthday and declined having lunch with her, that is not turning his guilt around on her. If they weren't exclusive he has nothing to feel guilty about.

One thing I agree with; Danny is emotionally screwed up, but it's just not an excuse. There are some things you do, and some things you shouldn't do, even if you are in excruciating emotional pain.

Unless you're Lindsay. Then one traumatic moment in your past can define and excuse everything you do and say for the rest of your life.

Probably what bugs me the most about Danny with Rikki is that he wasn't acting guilty in that scene with her. He was using those words to acquit himself and to make Rikki, who seemed far less certain than him, feel more comfortable with what they did. He whispered about her son's death as a lover, not as a man who is breaking under the guilt. Talk about manipulation. Danny's quite good at it himself.

Rikki is an adult just like Lindsay. Why does Danny have to be responsible for everyone else's actions when Lindsay doesn't even have to be responsible for her own? Rikki openly admitted she was using Danny so she "didn't have to be alone," and to me the pain in her eyes and voice was clear. Danny openly admitted he was with her to make the pain go away, and to me the grief in his eyes and voice was clear. That's not manipulation, that's honesty, even if the situation is far from ideal.

 

[miss_blue]

I hate to say this, but it is the truth: having sex on a pool table after a night of tequila shots and a drunken bet does not a relationship make.

Amen on that!

Surreal_44
And er...in Season Three, I thought Danny was pretty dang pushy in "Love Run Cold". It was obvious that throughout the episode Lindsay didn't want to spend extra time with Danny and he kept pushing her and pushing her. He did back down finally, yes, but respecting her space? Not so much.

Yeah, and wasn’t Lindsay dramatic when he gave explanations before standing her up? Call me crazy, but wasn’t he doing it right? I mean when I don’t want to go out with someone, I don’t say “Yeah! I’ll be there” and never show up, I just give a reason not to. Am I the only one who does that?

Surreal_44
Follow my logic here

Can you put a sign so I can find it?

Surreal_44
there most certainly was off-screen romance

And you are talking to Madonna, I will not be signing any autographs today, though.

Surreal_44
So now we have Danny and Lindsay as dating. As in boyfriend/girlfriend. Since Lindsay is not delusional and Danny is not a moron, this means there is a romantic relationship.

I need another sign though, you lost me at your conclusion. I am not delusional, Johnyy Depp is not a moron, are we in a romantic relationship?

PerfectAnomaly
I'll repeat Kimmychu's statement. "FANON is not CANON."

You can repeat it till you’re blue in the face as you’ve said earlier. It’s useless. Let it go.

PerfectAnomaly
He became defensive because she was acting like a 10 year old having a temper tantrum and he thought it was because he forgot her birthday and declined having lunch with her, that is not turning his guilt around on her. If they weren't exclusive he has nothing to feel guilty about.

Can I give you cookies? Please? Nothing said :wtf: more than Danny’s face after Lindsay left the office. (well maybe my face did..)

I don’t quite get how you managed to arrive at the conclusion that Danny and Lindsay are in an exclusive relationship? There was nothing showed on the screen, the “exclusiveness” is based only on assumptions. One night of drunken sex does not mean true love. After Snow Day we didn’t have any kind of canon proof that they are dating, till suddenly Lindsay started throwing around the word “girlfriend” and “love” to which Danny did not respond well. In fact, he needed time to process the information Lindsay gave him. I fail to see your point there. If you show me one canon proof that they were dating after Snow Day, I’ll do anything.

ETA: I'll quote my boss regarding your assuming
ass/u/me. when you assume you make an ass out of you and me

 

[privatename]

Forget possible romantic interest here between Danny and Lindsay. What would you, as a friend, allow for an "appropriate" amount of time to be shut out of your friend's life while they are obviously suffering and grieving?

A few weeks, whether it's been three or six would probably be too much, especially if you were close to that person and not used to being shut out of their life. Lindsay's frustration is a very human and realistic response for the situation she's been faced with.

So, if someone you have been friends with for a few years has a terrible tragedy befall them and they are dealing with tremendous feelings of grief and guilt and they didn't turn to you or in your words they shut you out for a few weeks you would just yell at them and tell them you have to figure out a way to stop caring about them. Really? I understand being frustrated and even angry and sad, but telling them that you now have to stop being friends with them because of it? That is pretty harsh if you ask me. Sometimes you have to realize it isn't about how much it hurts you that your friend has shut you out. When you love someone, either romantic or platonic, it should be more about the fact that they are hurting even more than you at the moment and may need some time to deal with their feelings on their own or they may be more comfortable talking with someone else besides you before they can talk to you. And sometimes 3-6 weeks just isn't enough time.