"Death And The Maiden" Discussion *SPOILERS*

[myfuturecsi]

I agree with others who think the victim services worker doesn't have a whole lotta chemistry with Nick, but sometimes these things can develop over time, so I'll give her a pass until we can see where it's headed.

No I don't think that can happen. It's either there, or it's not.

I mean Billy Petersen and Jorja Fox had chemistry from the moment they appeared on screen together (I never liked GSR, but will acknowledge the two actors worked very well together). As did Marg and Gary. It's obvious, they chose the actors carefully or they observed them and saw the sparks.

I also thought Krista Allan and George had chemistry, even though I didn't agree with the whole hooker storyline-I might have liked it better if Kristy had been a social worker. It had nothing to do with the actress herself. She's done some good work and has a good comedic timing.

And talent is something not all actors have. SO maybe this actress was chosen on looks alone.

 

[byline]

I agree with others who think the victim services worker doesn't have a whole lotta chemistry with Nick, but sometimes these things can develop over time, so I'll give her a pass until we can see where it's headed.

No I don't think that can happen. It's either there, or it's not.

I mean Billy Petersen and Jorja Fox had chemistry from the moment they appeared on screen together (I never liked GSR, but will acknowledge the two actors worked very well together).

Well, see, a whole slew of people would disagree with you on that. I can't count the number of posts I've read from people who insisted that Petersen and Fox had zero chemistry together. Mind you, I don't agree. Like you, I never much cared for the GSR angle, but thought that since the powers that be decided to go down that road, they handled it pretty well. But that just goes to show how subjective this whole perception of chemistry is.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

I agree with others who think the victim services worker doesn't have a whole lotta chemistry with Nick, but sometimes these things can develop over time, so I'll give her a pass until we can see where it's headed.

No I don't think that can happen. It's either there, or it's not.

I mean Billy Petersen and Jorja Fox had chemistry from the moment they appeared on screen together (I never liked GSR, but will acknowledge the two actors worked very well together).

Well, see, a whole slew of people would disagree with you on that. I can't count the number of posts I've read from people who insisted that Petersen and Fox had zero chemistry together. Mind you, I don't agree. Like you, I never much cared for the GSR angle, but thought that since the powers that be decided to go down that road, they handled it pretty well. But that just goes to show how subjective this whole perception of chemistry is.

I'm no GSR fan, but as a couple I feel they had zero chemistry, as just co-workers and part of the team, there was chemistry. The whole team had chemistry together.

So as for April and Nick, there is zero chemistry between them and that won't change. It's either there when they're on screen together or it isn't.

However, you're right, everyone's perception is different.

 

[Desertwind]

This episode was great, but showed the sleazy side of life and was the underbelly of a bunch of really dysfunctional people. my analysis of it~but didn't get the title what did it have to do with this episode?

Guy beat to a pulp in the alley, with Brass and the loud mouth hooker~

Nick at the hospital. with Tommy the victim good make-up. And him running amok on Nick and breaking his camera. "Get the hell out of here" much to poor Nick's dismay~

Nick and Cath in the bloody ally, Nick finds the St. Christopher's medal~
Greg, Ray and Vartann in the torched store & finding the another victim..dead. Greg: "Victim is only slightly toasted" Ray: "Fire was an after thought". Super Dave, running late driving in from Pahrump, [tiny little desert town by Vegas] Saying Sara was there. Greg: "She'll be there for days"

Nick going to the house and finding the alkie mom all messed up from drinking and offering him a drink. Nick: "NO thanks, I'm good" Bobby enters "Mom, what are you doing here and how'd you get in"? they start a hugh fight and he throws her out. Poor Nick again, and finding Tommy gone~

Greg and Ray [here ya' go GNRF on them 'bonding':thumbsup: Greg finds gun, and acrylic nail, and starts talking to his self:lol: Ray in the bedroom and can't hear him Greg goes "Langston: Ray", and starts answering his own questions, back to quirky funny Greggie. And says "Thank's Greg" after lying out his own theories:lol: goes into the bedroom and finds Ray talking to his self. "Sometimes when God closes a door, Satan opens a window" Greg: "I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who talks to to them selves":guffaw: Greg find a stash of jewerly "Looks like Jack Sparrow's been here"

Vartann interogating vics. sister Jess~

Wendy processing evidence Cath processes it. Nick: "I think he was raped"~

Nick going to see the victims advocate April Martin, and her attitude and Nick geeting P..offed they have different aproaches to the victims! she hands him her business cards~

Wendy and Hodges [he's so dense] And her dismay on Ickie Ecklie not letting her go out in the field "I got a recommendation from Grissom, Cath and Nick" Hodges "Saying he and Conrad were in a book club together, and he'd talk to him "Conrad respects my opinion" [yeah right] cute comparasion from a Lab Rat to a Field Mouse~

Doc and Ray going over body evidence with the lights off and on~

Greg calling the pawn shop~

Girls Club, Pole dancer and Vartann and Greg talking to two of them~

Team going over DNA evidence and some cross contamination Wayne assulted Tommy~

Ray and Wendy and Ray admitting he doesn't know everything, the burnout matches and the wet ones and dry ones~

Greg and Hodges, Greg can barely stand him:rommie: Hodges going all Pig Latin [so childish] and Greg calling him LOSER, backwards:guffaw:

Nick so puzzled and disgusted by the whole act of a guy raping another guy Ray "Greek warriors sodomized their enemies to humilitated them and take their manhood" and "For some men violence is the sex"

The 3 people admit to killing the Wayne~Jess, Mark and Tommy~

April comes to see Nick and they were better together says Tommy could not have killed him. He goes "Your not a bleeding heart" and when he walks away she smiles, smitten with himshe's cute~

Greg and Vartann go back to the club and arrest the stripper, she did shoot him but not kill him, it was from mark setting the fire and smoke inhalation~

Nick visiting Tommy said he didn't even fight he froze and the thing he remembered was "I'm going to ruin you, like you ruined my sister"I can't even think about Jess now, without seeing his face"

Jess hugged him but he was cold and withdrawn, and walked away much to Jess's lament~ [he'll need serious counseling]

Nick and his dismal and sad expression he's so sympathetic of this whole gross act that was perpetuated on Tommy and feels his pain.

A repugnant, decadent, deplorable, repulsive episode, but also riveting as always I give it a A+

 

[byline]

Oops, sorry, double post!

 

[byline]

I'm no GSR fan, but as a couple I feel they had zero chemistry, as just co-workers and part of the team, there was chemistry. The whole team had chemistry together.

I agree with that. I also felt that during the first season, when it was nothing more than flirting between the two, there was a lot more chemistry than when it was later directed at a romantic relationship.

Watching the episode again today, I felt there was more chemistry between Nick and the victim services gal than I saw last night. It's subtle, though.

 

[Zipster]

Absolutely fabulous episode. Dark and horrible story, but excellently acted and paced out. Pretty much all that can be said about this episode has been said by other, A+

 

[myfuturecsi]

Watching the episode again today, I felt there was more chemistry between Nick and the victim services gal than I saw last night. It's subtle, though.

I think the whole scene where they meet has been done to death.

Boy Meets Girl, Girl has a judgemental attitude
Conflict arises
They grow attracted to each other

Where have I seen that done..oh..

Hodges and Wendy!

Outside of CSI world

Moonlighting!

Seriously, there was no other way to introduce a love interest for Nick. I'm glad the writers are now copying one another and borrowing ideas from one another (sarcasm).

The whole scene felt contrived in my opinion.

She's okay and snarky but I don't think she's for Nick.

Greg would be a better choice as she needs to lighten up.

Better yet, the actress could find another more steady gig and never come back-which is my dream scenario.

I loved the Hodges and Wendy scene. I just want you to be happy. Oh Hodges, you've become such an awesome guy. You still annoy me, but your changing so much thanks to Wendy who I adore.

In fact I'd say over the years the Lab rats have started to creep past Nick as my favourite characters. They're so cute and funny to watch and so much more relatable than Nick.

Yes I'm saying that. The Lab Rats are more fun to watch now than Nick and the rest of the CSIs.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Better yet, the actress could find another more steady gig and never come back-which is my dream scenario.

I think she'd fit in nicely at Melrose Place (of course I don't watch that show). And I don't think she'd mesh well with Greg either to be honest. :lol: Maybe with Jesse on Miami. :lol:

 

[myfuturecsi]

Better yet, the actress could find another more steady gig and never come back-which is my dream scenario.

I think she'd fit in nicely at Melrose Place (of course I don't watch that show). And I don't think she'd mesh well with Greg either to be honest. :lol: Maybe with Jesse on Miami. :lol:

Well she got her big start on a reality show, so yeah that's probably the best place for her, a soap opera.:lol:

Which goes to show the writers are clueless and don't know what they want the show. I'd say cancel it.

 

[ladyhunter]

This was a little too slow paced for me. I didn't know what I was expecting but it felt like the episode was just a little off.

I'm like just about everyone else. Why was the title called Death and the Maiden. I guess Jess was the 'maiden' and her brother and boyfriend were fighting over protecting her. That's my theory.

And, hubby and I were still confused as to why the boyfriend went to jail? I know why the brother did... and ewwwwwwwww is all I can say. Poor guy to have that done to...

The highlights was my favorite Detective, Vartann. But, I'm with you kaylyne, why every time we see him lately, he's either in a strip club or with almost naked women????? I guess they are trying to validate is 'manhood' or something. :lol:

Overall, pretty good, but like I said, a little slow moving.

 

[Smokey]

And, hubby and I were still confused as to why the boyfriend went to jail? I know why the brother did... and ewwwwwwwww is all I can say. Poor guy to have that done to...

The stripper went to jail for shooting the guy. But since he wasn't dead yet when the brother set the fire, he's going up on manslaughter charges. The boyfriend was set free at the end.

Untacking this thread...feel free to keep discussing!

 

[Dizzney]

Well she got her big start on a reality show, so yeah that's probably the best place for her, a soap opera.:lol:

Which goes to show the writers are clueless and don't know what they want the show. I'd say cancel it.

Just because they cast a girl who might or might not be good with Nick does not mean they should just cancel the show. The show is not all about Nick.

I happen to think this season has started off very well, better than last year so far. I have enjoyed every episode. I think the writers are still very capable of coming up with good stories. I mean look, this was the first time they dealt with male rape.

 

[byline]

I think the whole scene where they meet has been done to death.

Boy Meets Girl, Girl has a judgemental attitude
Conflict arises
They grow attracted to each other

Where have I seen that done..oh..

True, but it's been done to death long before the shows you cited. It's been a key plot device in literature, theatre and film probably since the beginning of each. So where do you draw the line, and when do you stop using it? Should a particular film or theatrical work have been the cutoff point even before TV arrived on the scene?

I'm like just about everyone else. Why was the title called Death and the Maiden. I guess Jess was the 'maiden' and her brother and boyfriend were fighting over protecting her. That's my theory.

And, hubby and I were still confused as to why the boyfriend went to jail? I know why the brother did... and ewwwwwwwww is all I can say. Poor guy to have that done to...

As I recall, the boyfriend went to jail because he confessed to killing his girlfriend's brother, and the evidence -- his blood on the bag of items he was trying to steal when his girlfriend's brother entered the store and caught him -- connected him to the crime scene. Also, the rape would have given him a pretty darned good motive to kill the brother: means, motive, opportunity. At that point, he seemed like the most likely suspect.

Others have explained the title and its relationship to the story, but Wikipedia offers a good synopsis of the play which has some symmetry with what happened in this episode: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_the_Maiden_(play)

The stripper went to jail for shooting the guy. But since he wasn't dead yet when the brother set the fire, he's going up on manslaughter charges. The boyfriend was set free at the end.

That raises an interesting point, though. Didn't Doc Robbins tell Ray that a particular bullet was "the killer"? So why, if the guy was going to die from the gunshot wound, would the fire have made any difference?

 

[happyharper13]

Well she got her big start on a reality show, so yeah that's probably the best place for her, a soap opera.:lol:

Which goes to show the writers are clueless and don't know what they want the show. I'd say cancel it.

Just because they cast a girl who might or might not be good with Nick does not mean they should just cancel the show. The show is not all about Nick.

Word. Though I found this episode a bit disturbing, everything other than the actual plot as it related to the crime was strong, and this season is shaping up to be my favorite so far.

And I just have to say -- making SuperDave and Wendy a part of the main cast was such a good decision. I think all episodes thus far in this season have benefited from their increased presence. Personally, I think humor was one of the things we lost the most with Grissom's departure (no offense to Ray or LF; I just don't think his character is one with as much of personality so naturally suited to the quirky science humor that made Grissom special), and Wendy and SuperDave have definitely helped make up for it.