"Coup de Grace" Discussion *SPOILERS*

I'm not sure whether anyone feels it..
i think there's a deeper meaning in this episode..
refer to the last 3 mins of the show..

i feel that its questioning the white house's stand in the iraq war thing..
the cop as the white house.. the world as the police.. the gang as the terrorist.. and the little boy.......

i'm not sure whether i'm the only one feeling this.. anyone else feels it too?
 
Okay, just gotta chime in on the Greg thing, too.

I'm sorry, but I don't care who you are/how long you've been at a job/your position, if your direct supervisor/boss expects you to do something, then you do it. I work as a substitute teacher, and if my bosses need me to go into the inner city schools, then I do it. I may not like it, but that's where I'm needed so that's where I go, no questions asked. Same thing with my part time job. I've been there 7+ years, know the ins and outs of the stores/the products, and hold keys for 4 stores. However there are still jobs that my boss asks me to do that are scut work, but you know what? I do it without whining and complaining because it comes down to one thing: respect. Cath is Greg's boss, and he needs to realize that sometimes you gotta do the work that is "below" him in order to help the team. It's about teamwork...as they say, there is no I in team.
Yeah but it is different with every job. In some jobs, like mine, if I did not speak up about wanting more stuff to challenge me or help me advance, I would not have gotten to where I am now. Sometimes you have to speak up for yourself if you want to get anywhere in your job. Some people just never say anything and they end up hating going to work because they feel no one pays them any attention to their needs. As a manager you have to feel out who is unhappy in their job and try to figure out what their needs might be too. It is not always about what you need as the boss. As you said, there is no I in Team. So everyone's opinions matter.

Greg still respects Catherine but he is also expecting a little respect from her. That is not too much to ask.
 
I have to agree with you, Dizzney. Everyone deserves respect. It is a 50-50 street.

Looking at the situation from BOTH sides, yes, Greg handled the situation badly. However, at the same time, he did have some very valid points. I hate the way the writers wrote it though because it's causing people to insult one character or the other. Just another way for the tptb to divide the fanbase.

I love both Cath and Greg which is why I'm trying to see both sides of it. It has to be frustrating when you're always the ONLY ONE being given the crap jobs. Yes, it's hard not to look at the youngest member in that way, but even still. And in her defense, Catherine had the head job just sort of thrown at her out of the blue and yes, it takes time to get acclimated. Perhaps she just hasn't get gotten fully acclimated to the demands of the job yet.

You know what would solve all of the problems? Drawing names, straws, whatever. Just so that no one feels picked on. Just letting fate decide who gets what job. :) This way no one could complain that others were getting preferential treatment or whatever.
 
Okay, just gotta chime in on the Greg thing, too.

I'm sorry, but I don't care who you are/how long you've been at a job/your position, if your direct supervisor/boss expects you to do something, then you do it. I work as a substitute teacher, and if my bosses need me to go into the inner city schools, then I do it. I may not like it, but that's where I'm needed so that's where I go, no questions asked. Same thing with my part time job. I've been there 7+ years, know the ins and outs of the stores/the products, and hold keys for 4 stores. However there are still jobs that my boss asks me to do that are scut work, but you know what? I do it without whining and complaining because it comes down to one thing: respect. Cath is Greg's boss, and he needs to realize that sometimes you gotta do the work that is "below" him in order to help the team. It's about teamwork...as they say, there is no I in team.
Yeah but it is different with every job. In some jobs, like mine, if I did not speak up about wanting more stuff to challenge me or help me advance, I would not have gotten to where I am now. Sometimes you have to speak up for yourself if you want to get anywhere in your job. Some people just never say anything and they end up hating going to work because they feel no one pays them any attention to their needs. As a manager you have to feel out who is unhappy in their job and try to figure out what their needs might be too. It is not always about what you need as the boss. As you said, there is no I in Team. So everyone's opinions matter.

Greg still respects Catherine but he is also expecting a little respect from her. That is not too much to ask.

Yes, Catherine is Greg's supervisor and he should respect that. I mean there is a dead body and that always seemed to be 'the case' you wanted, a dead body! It doesn't matter who it is, every person deserves someone to come out there and find out why they were murdered.

If Catherine wants him to do that case, then he should do it. Now having said that, if Greg is feeling under-appreciated, disrespected, or whatever, then he needs to sit down with Catherine, in her office, and discuss it like a professional. Having a temper tantrum while at a scene and rolling your eyes, at your boss, is NOT the way to do it. If he wants to be treated with respect then he needs to act like an adult.

I don't like a lot of things that my bosses do, who does, however, I would NEVER be so stupid as to roll my eyes at them. That's a great way to find yourself in the unemployment line.

Greg isn't happy? Fine, then go about it like an adult, not a child, and with professionalism. That will get you farther. If he wants respect than he has to show it too and he did not show Catherine the respect she deserves when he threw his temper tantrum. He didn't like the case Catherine sent him on, buck it up, do it, and then later talk to her about it. That was how it should have been handled.

Now, this TV and I know they were just trying to show how the team isn't cohesive, but when he acted that, again, in this episode. I would tell Greg to 'grow-up and handle it like a man'.

Not dissing Greg here, but because I don't blame him for feeling that way. I watch him and still see the Lab Greg (I miss that Greg). He's not happy, then the writers need to write a scene where he sits down with Catherine and tells her how he feels. Oh let's face it, it's all the writer's fault. :lol:

Guess what I'm trying to say is that you're both right.
 
He's not happy, then the writers need to write a scene where he sits down with Catherine and tells her how he feels. Oh let's face it, it's all the writer's fault. :lol:

I agree with this. It's all their fault, not Greg's. :lol: The way the scene was written was not the right way in my opinion. Greg should have sat down privately with Cath and told her how he felt. I think he did well to hold all of that in for however long he did though. I think too that if they hadn't all be over-worked and over-stressed he probably wouldn't have snapped like that either.

Greg didn't really roll his eyes though. It was more like he looked UP like he was trying to stay calm and like he was about to blow out a calming breath just like he did in the scenes with the waitress. He did look like he stiffened a bit like he was ready to defend himself though. He looked like he had that "oh here it comes" look on his face. :lol:
 
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I can't help feeling though that Grissom would have noticed Greg's unhappiness long before he ever had a chance to say anything about it. Grissom was the ultimate observer. He observed The Stokes' and knew that the thing to pull Nick out of his hysteria was to call him "Pancho". So, I'm sure Grissom would have realized that Greg was frusturated and unhappy.

I disagree that Greg rolled his eyes at Catherine though in last night's ep. I didn't see that. To me it looked like everyone sucked in a breath when the 420 was announced. He did look like he stiffened a bit like he was ready to defend himself, but there was no eye roll. He looked UP like he was trying to stay calm. Looking up does not equal an eyeroll. Trust me, I was watching his face more than anything else in that scene. He looked UP, not around, hence no eyerolling. He looked up like he was about to blow out a calming breath just like he did in the scenes with the waitress.

Knowing Grissom yeah he would have noticed probably pretty early on, makes me realize how much I miss Grissom even more :(

Also I didn't notice any eye rolling either like you said and it did look like he was trying to stay calm more then anything else. I was really glad that Sarah volunteered to take the case though, it seemed to me like she knew Greg didn't want to take the case.
 
I reworded my post above because my head's all foggy and my thoughts weren't coming out very well. I didn't want them to sound snarky or anything (because that certainly wasn't the intention- I just wrote attention instead of intention-yeesh my head is messed up- stupid cold lol). I'm just so frustrated with this stupid cold (or whatever I have) right now. I can't think clearly at the moment. I should probably go to bed. :lol: Blech. I hate being sick. :( At least the sore throat went away.

I wonder why Wendy wasn't in the episode. They could have easily written her into the scene helping Sara collect the gang members' dna.
 
See there is the difference between Catherine as a supervisor and Grissom. Grissom noticed Greg's unhappiness in the lab and asked him about it. And then went as far to try to help him to get out of the lab.
After Greg's little outburst in the first episode this season, Catherine should have sat down with Greg and asked him what's going on. She could see he was upset about how he was being treated on the team. So I do slightly blame her, as a supervisor, for not seeing his unhappiness and talking to him about it.
Yes, Greg should also speak up, but it can work both ways. And if Catherine was a really good supervisor she would take the initiative to pull him aside and talk to him.
 
That's being too harsh on Greg. He didn't have a 'tantrum' or handle it like a child. He complained. We all do it, there's only so many ways you can go about it. It think some of us are being a little too judgmental on the ONE time Greg decides to stick up for himself, no?

Let's not forget...The guy's been through a LOT on his field time and it's a real pity he should have to deal with being treated like the low man on the totem pole despite all his endeavors. And don't forget, later in that episode he DID cool down while processing the motel. Don't you think we're all putting too many of our chips into this one scene? Greg has proven himself to be a mature adult and a professional in COUNTLESS ways. We shouldn't suddenly think less of him because of 1 minute of him speaking his mind.

Besides, he shouldn't have to say anything, or demand respect. Catherine should be conscious enough to realize that her team members feel certain ways. It's part of being a good leader. Not trying to throw all the hot water on Cath, here, but it's partially her responsibility, too.

And quite frankly, not much of me believes that even if Greg did have a talk with someone it would make any difference. He sadly seems to be the guy that a lot of misc. work is thrown on. And that feels like crap, especially if you've been through a lot on the job.
 
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I don't think it's that Ray is meaning to talk to the team like he's the smarter one, I think he's explaining everything from a different angle. He knows that every CSI there could figure something out, but he's trying to give a different outlook on it that they may not be familiar with.
I agree!

Langston is an unattractive, fat bore who hogs the screen and kills the demos.
Well, if having a normal-looking man is killing the demos, then the U.S. needs a serious attitude adjustment about physical appearance, and we need more Rays, not fewer. Hollywood's constant trotting out of the Barbie/Ken clones who can't act their way out of a paper bag (But hey, they look good on TV!) has created a mindset where people don't seem to know what "normal" looks like anymore.

By the way, ever since "Grey's" became the cross-town rival, "CSI" has always trailed them in the 18-49 demographic. I'm not surprised it's trailing "The Office" too, especially considering the fact that Jim and Pam's wedding last week was such a big event, and viewers (like myself) were tuning in again this week to see how they followed up.
 
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That's being too harsh on Greg. He didn't have a 'tantrum' or handle it like a child. He complained. We all do it, there's only so many ways you can go about it. It think some of us are being a little too judgmental on the ONE time Greg decides to stick up for himself, no?

Let's not forget...The guy's been through a LOT on his field time and it's a real pity he should have to deal with being treated like the low man on the totem pole despite all his endeavors. And don't forget, later in that episode he DID cool down while processing the motel. Don't you think we're all putting too many of our chips into this one scene? Greg has proven himself to be a mature adult and a professional in COUNTLESS ways. We shouldn't suddenly think less of him because of 1 minute of him speaking his mind.

Besides, he shouldn't have to say anything, or demand respect. Catherine should be conscious enough to realize that her team members feel certain ways. It's part of being a good leader. Not trying to throw all the hot water on Cath, here, but it's partially her responsibility, too.

And quite frankly, not much of me believes that even if Greg did have a talk with someone it would make any difference. He sadly seems to be the guy that a lot of misc. work is thrown on. And that feels like crap, especially if you've been through a lot on the job.

My thoughts exactly! :thumbsup:
 
Well, if having a normal-looking man is killing the demos, then the U.S. needs a serious attitude adjustment about physical appearance, and we need more Rays, not fewer. Hollywood's constant trotting out of the Barbie/Ken clones who can't act their way out of a paper bag (But hey, they look good on TV!) has created a mindset where people don't seem to know what "normal" looks like anymore.
well, the term "attractiveness" does not exactly have to mean physical appearance. i think Ray as a the character is not attractive when it comes to both his personality and looks. i wouldn't be as adamant about it as 456 but that one blunt sentence is basically summing up what most people on the boards are saying.
 
I think we're being a little too harsh on Catherine here. She can only be what the writers write her to be. Catherine was always considerate and the 'Mama bear' of the team. It's not her fault the producers suddenly want to make her a bad supervisor. Hell, she did most of Grissom's job for 10 years and did it well. I don't know where the writers are going with this but I think turning on Catherine is a little premature.

As a CSI, you do what you're supervisor asks you to do, without complaint. You may not like the tasks you've been given, but you do it because it's your job. Greg used to feel as if he wasn't doing enough and would've killed to work a case solo. Nick had been a CSI for years before he got to work a case solo and complained to Grissom.

I think this whole storyline is out of place and a way to throw Catherine under the bus. Just another way to stir up trouble, I guess. I've never been so frustrated with writers of a TV show. lol. And yet I can't let it go because I love the show. Really love it. It's been a part of my life for ten years. No matter how bad or disappointing it gets, I'll still watch.

I don't want to see Catherine portrayed as the oblivious leader and I don't want to see Greg sulky. Are they trying to go out of their way to make the team fractured? Ray controls everything while everyone else is just there, now Greg has tension with Catherine. What next? :rolleyes:

I love Catherine and I love Greg. I don't want them shifting their personalities after all this time.
 
Another thing I loved in this episode, is the bonding between Dr. Ray and new returnee Sara. When he was espousing his ideas and they were all sitting around the table, how enamored & in full agreement she was with him. They have similar personailties, calm, cool, collected & intelligent, and yet so focused when working on the cases. Yet, they can get fiesty when backed into a corner. I would like to see them together working on a case, as they are seeminly in tune with on another. I see the team are are bonded with him. Doc and he have become friends and Nick is honored to be working with him, always a smile when he's present, as the rest of them as well. He's a keeper as far as I'm concerned, and think he's great:bolian:
 
I love Catherine. I think she makes a great supervisor. Under normal conditions. Right now, the team is understaffed (which is only recently getting relief from Sara), overworked, and probably underpaid :)lol:).

I see both Cath and Greg as being in the right and the wrong.

As previously stated by various members here, Catherine has been doing supervisory work for years either under Grissom or her stint as the head of swing shift. She's just having a tough time at the moment and isn't noticing the disunity within the team. Thus to make things easier for her (not a bad thing), she's making the same moves that have worked for years.

But these moves are no longer valid. She's still treating Greg as a young newbie. That's the key word there and the root of Greg's problem. Greg would probably be happy to take a solo. But look at the circumstances surrounding the two instances we've seen. Both were high profile cases that would definitely look good on any CSI's record. People have been saying that CSI's would kill for a solo case, but have failed to take into account high profile cases.

Look at it this way, what would look better: being the lone worker on a dead prostitute case or assisting in the case of a murdered senator or celebrity?

When these new cases came in, they sould have gone to the actual newbie (Ray). Instead, Catherine always gives them to Greg. There might be more going on here than we are seeing as well. When the whole team is there, maybe Greg is given dumpster duty or collecting hundreds of bullets by himself (A Bullet Runs Through It). There is probably more to this.

People are also saying that Greg should just suck it up and take it and listen to Catherine. Tell me, would you take it sitting down if you're bypassed at your work? If you've been putting not just hours, but sweat and blood, into your job only for a new wunderkind to just jump over you, would you be happy?

I've always been told that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. In other words, if you say nothing, nothing happens. You'll wind up like the guy in "Working Stiffs". Was Greg in the right in "Family Affair"? Only if it leads to change.

I really hope I made sense :)
 
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