Could Canon Slash Work?

[love_fan]

It happened in The Girl in Question (ep 20 of S5). It's only a side remark but it was so great to finally get some confirmation! :thumbsup::devil:
I've been thinking about Angel and Spike a lot lately and came to the conclusion that their is indeed a lot of tension between them. And as I've mentioned it somewhere (maybe here?) before, if you want to see subtext you'll find it!

I really like your idea GregNickRyanFan. And you also made a good point about the whole Stalker scene. I never even thought about it! Must go to the Fort and discuss it there but I'll credit you for it

 

[my_last_chance]

I personally think that canon slash could work ... if the writers did it properly.

I mainly just ship The Love, and there has been a lot of flirty subtext so far, but if they randomly showed Nick and Greg making out in the locker room, I'd be one of the people saying "...wtf?"

I agree with everyone who said that for it to work, it would have to be subtle. It could just be something that other people could write off as being "friendly", while the slash shippers know for sure that the two characters are together, or at least in love. Just a small little scene that at least shows us that there is something more to their relationship than just friendship.

CSI is definitely more about the cases than the relationships, but when there are people working together, relationships are formed. Friendships are formed, and that could lead to love. CSI has people on it, and I think you don't choose who you fall in love with. So what would happen if two characters on CSI fell in love? Would we [the audience] not get to see it, just because it is more of a procedural show?

I know that at work you should only have professional relationships, but sometimes that isn't always the case. Like with GSR, and a few scenes where they aren't 100% professional, and a bit more human.

On another note, I was kind of sad that Bobby D. wasn't allowed out of the closet yet. Maybe in the next season, but I sincerely doubt it.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I get the feeling that the writers are little shy about writing gay characters. maybe they're afraid they wouldn't do it properly or something.

 

[candygirl1uk]

Hey you all nice posts!!

Well to be honest treating gay relationships is the same as any other relationships, just the focal point of love is flat chested and male, or someone who wears a bra.

If i could say 100% why CSI haven't made their characters gay or bisexual- I would, but in reality i have no idea. Yes theres been talk about the shows being a world wide hit and I'm assuming (please correct me if I'm wrong), that even in Muslim countries CSI is shown. Maybe at the end of the day, what is stopping them from having gay or bisexual characters that are main characters is themselves.

CSI, is very good at subtexual moments, which are seen if a person looks hard enough. They like to tease, tempt, the viewer into watching the show- and very clever they are at doing just that!

Of course its about science etc, and murder, but as its a drama there needs to be something that excites, stimulates a person interest to watch the next episode, or even the next ten minutes. Good drama should be about both, character development- which includes relationships on all levels and the subject matter.

I can remember watching an older episode of CSI, and Nick broke down and told Cath why he finds child abuse hard to handle. What im trying to say, is that without character development- on all characters- then the storyline in itself is pointless.

Yes i wish that CSI did have gay and bisexual slash relationships on there. I'd vote for Nick/Greg, Cath/Wendy/Hodges and on NY- Danny/Flack.

Sorry fans of Miami I cant see any love potentional there.

 

[Shytownmofo]

I know what you mean. I'd love to see something more than the simple subtext, a la the way Nick and Greg are always right up on each other, the way Flack Stares at Danny incessantly(You gotta wonder if he's noticed that, and what he thinks if he has) and the way that Speedle and Delko were always yakking at each other like an old married couple in the few Miami episodes I've seen.

However, not to hijack the thread into a different direction, but the way the het relationships are portrayed on the shows, with there being something unhealthy or codependent about nearly all of them, A la Catherine's taste in men, Sara's life magically becoming problem free when she got with Grissom, the DannyLindsay debacle on NY, Stella's ordeal with Frankie Mala, Horatio's experiences with women, etc. It seems that all of those relationships are so unhealthy/stereotypical that I wonder what they'd do with a canon slash pairing. It probably cannot be good.

There's also the notion that canon pairings have a great risk, because then TPTB can do whatever they like with them. If they wanted to break it up, or do something extremely outlandish with it, then they could. Especially a Slash pairing that ends up not being well received. I can see TPTB getting hatemail and deciding to 86 the pairing. Or, they could decide, well, it's a gay relationship, why don't we explore it being an abusive relationship, or why not some sort of substance abuse dynamic in there. Then, because it's Canon, there would be nothing we could do about it.

I know there are a lot of DannyLindsay fans who are not happy with the way that pairing has gone. I'm not a big DannyLindsay fan, so it's no skin off my back, but imagine if that was Danny/Flack instead, I'd be more than a little unhappy.

 

[candygirl1uk]

Shytownmofo

Thats right, thats what I'm afraid of, cause then a pairing would be in their hands. Ahh, so what do we all do? Just demand more air time with our shippers, and pray that others have seen what we always see?

I've only recently watched Miami- for the comedy- its great- and I missed Speedy and that other character by a mile.

It's dammed if the slash gets cannon and dammed if it dont.

 

[Deirdre]

You reminded me one story from Polish TV. In Poland still gay couples are taboo and it'll last for a long time. But in one hit show (it's actually soap opera) author wanted to make a gay character. This idea was effect of questions about it etc. So writer made a gay in show, but... Before character came to show producers asked viewers how do they feel about it. And what the answer was? We don't want a gay in our show. So actor who decided to be gay were there but only for a few episodes and then gone. Of course in any of his scenes he never said that he's gay. Probably that's the thing which is TPTB afraid of. After making a slash couple cannon they really can get tons of letters and e-mails that people doesn't want to see it.

And I think it's not only about Muslim countries like candygirl said. In most of European countries shipping is not favourite hobby (well, I can say it more from my Polish point). People accepted GSR cause it's cannon and really easy to notice. But slash, that's a different story. Firstly - not everyone can see it. I mean that homosexual signals are not always caught by the viewers. When is about my ship Nick/Greg, I really see chemistry between them and many things which they've done are definitely signals that they're together on in love or... well, many ideas in head. But I know too that many people who I know (I mean from Poland) doesn't see that. If you're not sensitive for some thing you really won't notice. Especially slash.

I always have mixed feeling about slash couple as a cannon. It's not only about that what I wrote before. Shytownmofo made a good point about heterosexual relationships in shows. They're definitely not good and if writers gonna treat them always like that I really don't want to see, for exapmle, Love as a cannon. They can destroy all years of subtext.

 

[Adzix]

i think canon slash could work on CSI but not with current characters. it would be hard to accept by many people that any of the CSI's or techs are gay (except Bobby, lol) after so many years of thinking they are hetero. but since there are some new people coming in and will continue to come in, i don't see how it wouldn't work if it was portrayed correctly.

but i do see it happening mostly in 12th, 13th season or beyond, when the show won't have even Eric Szmanda in it. tbh, i'm afraid CSI is going to transform into ER soon. i doubt i'll keep watching if it does.

 

[Shytownmofo]

i think canon slash could work on CSI but not with current characters. it would be hard to accept by many people that any of the CSI's or techs are gay (except Bobby, lol) after so many years of thinking they are hetero. but since there are some new people coming in and will continue to come in, i don't see how it wouldn't work if it was portrayed correctly.

but i do see it happening mostly in 12th, 13th season or beyond, when the show won't have even Eric Szmanda in it. tbh, i'm afraid CSI is going to transform into ER soon. i doubt i'll keep watching if it does.

I don't know. I think it could possibly work with any of the current characters. I'm not sure I can see a LTR with any of them, especially between two of the regulars/recurring characters, but I can see something happening with some of them. I could see it with Greg, the idea that he'd been with men before in college even as a throwaway line might be cool, a la that Angel line(BTW, Thanks, Love_fan for pointing that out to me...

I think that there are characters that it could work with and characters that would make people turn around and scratch their heads about.

Honestly, I can very easily see characters like Nick, Greg, Adam from NY, Flack and definitely Bobby Dawson as being bisexual.

I'd like to see it, even just for the shock value and breaking these characters out of the boxes that they're in. The idea that Nick Stokes, big Texas He Man, or Don Flack, Tough NYPD detective can't be gay just doesn't compute. You'd be surprised how people can be. I don't necessarily want it to be the focus of the show, because the focus should be crime and the cases, but to have that aspect of character development would be nice.

 

[Deirdre]

i think canon slash could work on CSI but not with current characters. it would be hard to accept by many people that any of the CSI's or techs are gay (except Bobby, lol) after so many years of thinking they are hetero. but since there are some new people coming in and will continue to come in, i don't see how it wouldn't work if it was portrayed correctly.

but i do see it happening mostly in 12th, 13th season or beyond, when the show won't have even Eric Szmanda in it. tbh, i'm afraid CSI is going to transform into ER soon. i doubt i'll keep watching if it does.

Adzix, as a person who is from the same political playground (I hope you know what I mean) like you I must say that I can't agree in all your statements. How I said before not everyone is sensitive for the homosexual signals in TV shows and in general (really sorry, but I must say it like that) in Europe is not very well-known phenomenon. I agree that, for example, in Poland, slash couple won't be seeing as a good thing. We're more used to it like in comedy shows (Will and Grace, etc.). Gay couple in CSI just must be something serious, real mature relationship between two people who love each other. I don't think that many Polish fans are ready for that, and many other fans around the Europe etc. But well, no one is always ready. For me, personally, Nick and Greg will work perfectly. I see chemistry between them, I saw their flirts, touching. It's for me obvious that they're interested in each other in a higher level than a friendship. Let's face it - The Love fandom is one of the biggest when it's about slash. That means something...

Shytownmofo, I really like your idea of breaking characters from the boxes. It's really great thing. For me as a Love shipper is obvious that Nick and Greg are gay/bisexual. But true is that Nick is the type of "big Texas He Man" (LOL, I found out somewhere that He Man was gay too:lol for many fans who are not Love shippers. I'm really interested about reactions of people when they will notice that one of the favourite characters was all the time gay.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I think in regards to Nick, some viewers would probably be more accepting given his confession to Catherine about the babysitter. Some might argue that [since he most likely never went to counseling for that issue] he, as a result could have problems trusting women when it comes to intimacy issues.

 

[Shytownmofo]

I think in regards to Nick, people would probably be more accepting given his confession to Catherine about the babysitter. He most likely never went to counseling for that issue and as a result could have problems trusting women when it comes to intimacy issues.

Exactly. I've actually heard people express surprise that Nick didn't go further with that, and say that the incident with the babysitter made him gay.

I can see that, especially given the women that Nick has been with on the show. Not necessarily making him gay or bisexual, but the tone of his relationships...I mean, Kristy Hopkins? Pretty, yes, but...I don't know, I'd have thought Nick would have higher standards. Then, the blonde girl he went home with in "Built To Kill." Couple that with some of the things he's said that make him seem ignorant of female anatomy make me wonder. I haven't really seen him with any other women, just random flirting with labtechs, female CSI's and Greg.

It only seems that Nick has sexuality when it comes to something that can advance the plot of the show. Couple that with the way he and Greg have interacted, and Yeah. I can so totally see it.

 

[Deirdre]

I think in regards to Nick, people would probably be more accepting given his confession to Catherine about the babysitter. He most likely never went to counseling for that issue and as a result could have problems trusting women when it comes to intimacy issues.

Exactly. I've actually heard people express surprise that Nick didn't go further with that, and say that the incident with the babysitter made him gay.

How do you imagine that? "I'm gay 'cause of my babysitter"? Sorry, but here you're not right. Abusing really has not so strong effect to change someone's sexuality. You born with preferences. Abusing really can't make someone gay or straight. But, well, if a person is questioning and they have been abused it can take them upto later life to finally understand.

That's really very touchy subject which have many levels. I think it's better to leave it. It's really deep psychology and here's I think no place for a discussion about "what's making people gay or straight." It's really a big topic - culture, history, religion...

 

[Shytownmofo]

I think in regards to Nick, people would probably be more accepting given his confession to Catherine about the babysitter. He most likely never went to counseling for that issue and as a result could have problems trusting women when it comes to intimacy issues.

Exactly. I've actually heard people express surprise that Nick didn't go further with that, and say that the incident with the babysitter made him gay.

How do you imagine that? "I'm gay 'cause of my babysitter"? Sorry, but here you're not right. Abusing really has not so strong effect to change someone's sexuality. You born with preferences. Abusing really can't make someone gay or straight. But, well, if a person is questioning and they have been abused it can take them upto later life to finally understand.

That's really very touchy subject which have many levels. I think it's better to leave it. It's really deep psychology and here's I think no place for a discussion about "what's making people gay or straight." It's really a big topic - culture, history, religion...

I didn't mean that I necessarily agreed with that sentiment, Just that I'd heard people express that. I do agree that sexual orientation is something that you're born with, and that being molested wouldn't necessarily make one gay, although I do know people who do believe that theory, which I believe is an oversimplification.

I do think that the abuse would color someone's relationships in the future and influence the type of people they'd get involved with as far as being dominant or submissive, or being trusting with others. I can also see it having an impact with regards to acceptance of oneself and their own sexuality, especially Nick and his situation.

I do agree that the whole subject of molestation/abuse is a very touchy one. Definitely one that doesn't have much place here, other than peripherally, IMO.

 

[Adzix]

Adzix, as a person who is from the same political playground (I hope you know what I mean) like you I must say that I can't agree in all your statements. How I said before not everyone is sensitive for the homosexual signals in TV shows and in general (really sorry, but I must say it like that) in Europe is not very well-known phenomenon. I agree that, for example, in Poland, slash couple won't be seeing as a good thing. We're more used to it like in comedy shows (Will and Grace, etc.). Gay couple in CSI just must be something serious, real mature relationship between two people who love each other. I don't think that many Polish fans are ready for that, and many other fans around the Europe etc. But well, no one is always ready.

well, i didn't really mean that the problem lies within their sexuality. to me Nick, Greg, Bobby or Henry could be gay, bi, or straight, and i don't think many people would be against the sole fact of it. (and to be exact i'm talking about LV only, i hardly ever watch the other 2 shows).

the problem lies with making current characters gay all of a sudden, while there weren't many, or in some cases any, signs of it in the past 8 years. and let me say it again: it's not b/c of the sexual orientation but b/c it would be unexpected and not based on almost any *behavioral evidence* if you allow me to call it that. somehow, their heterosexuality has been established and proved quite extensively.

i'm not saying it couldn't happen in real life. god knows how many times perfect, sunday-mass-attending husbands are trans, bi or gay, but right now on CSI? quite unbelievable, unexpected. CSI would be again accused of making a personal-storyline buzz to win with Grey's.

now to respond to all of you who are going to argue that they've seen many signs of homosexual preferences of some characters. sure there were some moments that could be interpreted that, for example, Nick and Greg are gay. heck, i think you could find as many moments with Grissom and Warrick together. the problem is, even though those scenes exist, the interest to the same sex has never been confirmed in any way. and it gets worse, you got both Nick and Greg talking about 'chicks' countless times.

again, i don't say Nick and Greg could not be gay. they definitely could be hiding it. the problem is, imo such storyline would be jumping the shark.

Bobby's case is a little different b/c he was actually suppossed to be gay (and probably is), it's just that the scene with him talking about his partner didn't make the final cut. i remember how Gerald was so excited about filming it. i bet he'll get another chance, though.

new characters are a different matter, and as i said, it would be interesting to see a slash ship with any of them canon.