Could Canon Slash Work?

I'm really not certain but I still feel like we're talking about separate points here. I'm not suggesting I want to see a show as adult in nature as QAF or Rescue me during primetime on a major network.

I'm saying homosexuality isn't automatically an R rated topic, so a show like CSI, or Bones, or Criminal Minds, all of which are shows that people accept as dealing with situations of a mild adult nature (as adult as network tv gets) still avoid addressing the topic with any sincerity, as if just knowing a main character is gay (without having to see it graphically) is somehow more taboo than talking about murder and rape or BDSM.
 
roximonoxide said:
I'm really not certain but I still feel like we're talking about separate points here. I'm not suggesting I want to see a show as adult in nature as QAF or Rescue me during primetime on a major network.

I'm saying homosexuality isn't automatically an R rated topic, so a show like CSI, or Bones, or Criminal Minds, all of which are shows that people accept as dealing with situations of a mild adult nature (as adult as network tv gets) still avoid addressing the topic with any sincerity, as if just knowing a main character is gay (without having to see it graphically) is somehow more taboo than talking about murder and rape or BDSM.
Click to expand...

Wow, we're really beating a dead horse with this one. I've already said I agree with you! For crying out loud!

Do I think the writers can pull it off? If we're talking about regular CSI, my opinion, no. They have botched so many charcters and storylines over the years that I can't see them writing a good canon slash storyline. I don't know about the other CSI's because I don't watch them, but I just can't see CSI:LV writers doing the first canon slash justice.
 
You have? Heh, ok. I wonder how we keep coming back to this implication that realistic homosexuality can only be pulled off on cable then.. but alright.

Now, we're at the heart of this topic. I'm not sure the current staff of writers on the CSI franchise are capable of it either, but my opinion here is limited being that most of their work I do only know from the show. I do think though, there are major network writers out there who are capable. David Shore & his staff who work on House, have proven they're ability to make homosexuality as casual subject for primetime, and all the better that they characters discussing it are medical professionals. That's definitely a step in the right direction. I'd love to see them handle a crime drama (not that House isn't sometimes very much a crime drama as well). If anyone could do it well I bet he could. Now if only someone would give him the opportunity!
 
Last edited:
I agree. It just takes the right team of writers to really get it out there in positive way. I would rather it take a while for it to happen, and to have the end product be somthing of value, then have it be rushed and have it end up tanking.
 
Kimbo08 said:
I agree. It just takes the right team of writers to really get it out there in positive way. I would rather it take a while for it to happen, and to have the end product be somthing of value, then have it be rushed and have it end up tanking.
Click to expand...

Exactly and I agree. I don't think the writers of LV could do it justice.

However, we're not saying that a slash relationship can ONLY work on cable, what I'm saying and I believe others is that it seems that only the cable channels can get away with it (so to speak). The network stations, not so much. Though I wish they would, I mean it is the 21st century.

I say CSI should try it, but on New York or Miami. I don't really watch those two so I don't know how the writing is. Now, LV has two new writers, maybe they would be able to do a canon slash justice. If Bobby Dawson was suppose to come out, then I say do it, but only if they write it smartly.
 
It's definitely a shame they didn't go forward with their initial plans for Bobby. That could have really been breakthrough. I think it's important to be willing to make those kinds of leaps when your running a #1 show. In CSI's case not just a single #1 show but a whole franchise of them. I think if it had, we might see more crime drama's following suit, and then with more writers tackling the issue I think we'd have more interesting interpretations out there.

My nomination for the first writer to really tackle a crime drama featuring at least 1 realisitc homosexual character in law enforcement is David Shore.... I'm willing to bet Joss Whedon could do it too. Does anyone else know of some particularly brilliant writers they'd nominate for such an endeavour?

A year or two ago CBS piloted a show called Love Monkey that started to dabble with this. The character Jake was a well respected ex-athlete tuned sports caster who was deeply in the closet. He was just a supporting character but damn, that had so much dramatic potential... That's just the kind of thing I'd like to see more of.
 
I think that Canon slash can work. Especially if it was well-written and brought about in such a way that people could be open-minded to give it a chance. It would be very difficult, but i think that it could be done.
 
Bones has sort of tackled it. The character Angela is apparently bisexual. She's now dating an old college girlfriend. So, I don't see why CSI couldn't do something like that. I mean we have new characters on two out of the three CSI shows... characters that we don't know a whole lot about. So, why couldn't they make one of them gay or bisexual? I definitely think they should have gone ahead with their plans for Bobby. I mean, he's not a major character, so I don't think it would be a problem.

But, as for shows taking major characters and making them gay when there was no indication of it before, take Willow on BTVS for example. she was dating Oz and after he broke her heart, she fell in love with a girl (Tara). And that relationship was written very well (Joss Whedon did an awesome job with it) and I didn't hear or see any nasty comments from anyone about it. So, it can be done and done well. Willow and Tara were seen as just another couple as opposed to a same sex couple. That's how well the relationship was written. So with the right writers, it's very possible. However, I'm not sure the CSI writers could pull it off. They don't have a good track record of writing couples. I'm not sure I'd trust them to write a same sex couple. However, Vegas does have some new writers (from Battlestar Galactica I think), so maybe they could pull it off. :)
 
Wow. I go away for awhile and all hell breaks loose.

I understand the argument about some of the viewing audience not being able to grasp and accept the concept of a homosexual or bisexual character. Some networks are more conservative than others, like CBS.

However, each time there is an openly gay character that is not stereotypical, a la Bobby Dawson, it breaks down a barrier. The more gay characters there are on TV, the more people see that it works.

Also, lesbian characters are seemingly more accepted than gay men. I'm not sure why that is, except maybe for some Straight Guy fantasies that lesbians are hot.

On the show NCIS there has been intimations that the character Ziva David is either Bi or has had experiences with women. I have not seen any of the fourth season of Bones, but Angela dating a woman does not seem OOC for her, IIRC there were references to her esperimenting in prior seasons. These are very small things that don't distract from the main focus of the show.

The problem I have with any of the Canon pairings that exist in any of the CSI shows is that there is something about them that is either unrealistic, stereotypic, lacking in chemistry, or takes over the show in a way that's not enjoyable.

GSR on CSI was irksome for the way it seemed to be a major focus in every episode and the way that all of Sara's problems seemed to magically disappear when she and Grissom hooked up up until her exit arc. The way it was introduced didn't help, either....a whole lot more flirting then she walks out of his bathroom....NO Honestly, I don't have too much problem with Grissom and Sara being together, but after he said nothing would ever happen between them, and the way it seemed to take over the show, it really soured it for me, especially the way he chastized Nick over the Kristy Hopkins thing....

Catherine's lousy taste in men over the years. Eddie, that club owner Bezich, etc.

Sara with "Hank the Skank"

Nick and Kristy Hopkins situation. I don't buy that she was irresistable...I just don't.

Warrick's marriage with Tina. That had promise, but ended up being a stereotypic plot device, IMO.

Danny and Lindsay on CSI: NY. Chemistryless, arguments, taking over in an unpleasant way.

Stella and nasty relationship with Frankie Mala.

Mac's relationship with Peyton seemed odd to me. He's such a by the book guy that I don't think that he would actually date a co-worker. Then the way she left him with a "Dear John" letter. Yick.

Because of that, I don't think that any of the shows would do a good job with a canon SLASH pairing. They would probably take it to a place that was either stereotypical with drug abuse, domestic violence, infidelity/promiscuity or something like that.

Basically, I think the writers suck at romance, and it doesn't matter whether it's het or homo, they'd still suck at it.

Even if I like a lot of slash pairings, I'm skeptical of a canon slash pairing. I would like to see an openly gay character. It doesn't even need to be a big deal, a mention of a partner, someone had a date with a man, etc.
 
**Yes** I think that Canon slash could work and should be done. They had some interesting interactions and dialogue with Rick and Horatio on Miami last season. I'd like to see that resume again.
 
Wow, you've definitely been busy. :eek:

I'd have to agree with you Shytownmofo, the writers can't do romance and I agree with every one of your examples. It's a shame really!

But why not let Bobby come out like he was supposed to in S4(?)? Why not show a picture of him and his partner and their daughter? At least I think that was the plan then. For me that would be enough at least for the time being.

I'm rather hesitant of a character turning out bisexual. I don't have anything against bisexuality but in the end those characters always end up in an heterosexual relationship. It's mostly done for rating and doesn't really help to integrate homosexuality.
Boy, I hope no one misunderstands me. ;)

Why not choose one of the new characters? Riley's new. I haven't seen any S9 episode yet, so I'm not sure if she ever mentioned a boyfriend but if she hasn't, it could be the perfect opportunity.

Maybe the new writers will change something? I'd love to see Joss Whedon write an episode. He's amazing and he's such a wonderful writer. The way Buffy handled Willow and Tara was so well done.
 
GSR on CSI was irksome for the way it seemed to be a major focus in every episode and the way that all of Sara's problems seemed to magically disappear when she and Grissom hooked up up until her exit arc. The way it was introduced didn't help, either....a whole lot more flirting then she walks out of his bathroom....NO Honestly, I don't have too much problem with Grissom and Sara being together, but after he said nothing would ever happen between them, and the way it seemed to take over the show, it really soured it for me, especially the way he chastized Nick over the Kristy Hopkins thing
Click to expand...

This was a really good point. CSI does not have a great track record with romances-at least Vegas doesn't and I don't watch the other CSIs to be able to form a proper opinion so I'm sorry if I keep going back to them.

So if they were to canon slash relationships on CSI, I think they would need to bring a writer who has a knack for character development. just so it is done realistically.

I mean, nobody's problems magically go away when they start a relationship be it homosexual or hetrosexual..because well, we're humans and full of issues. I know just as many dysfunctional homosexual relationships as there are hetrosexual.

No I don't want to see the relationship all angsty either, bu as I mentioned. I think the current crop of CSI writers are very good at writing mystery and science, but romance, well, all writers have their strong areas and weaker areas.

So probably they should bring a writer whose strength is in character development, someone who could write a good relationship story.

I could be wrong, but I just look at GSR and how Sara suddenly was 'okay' after she and Gil got together. Please. Nobody's problems go away.

And CBS can be real..scaredy cats, and when the only time we see gay couples are when they are either the criminals or muder victims.
 
Should slash be apart of regular programing? Yes, it should and I hope it does soon. I think it is realistic. Many people go to work with homosexuals and there are many homosexuals who are afraid or ashamed to come out. It's a real life thing that shouldn't be swept under the rug. I believe that it is possible for CBS to do something like this, but I just don't see them doing it anytime soon. ABC, NBC, and Fox have all done it successfully. I just hope CBS comes around.
 
I completely agree that the LGBT population is a part of life and that there are gays and lesbians in all professions. I also agree that they should show an LGBT person that is not a victim or perpetrator. Even something simple as being with a same sex partner as an alibi.

Honestly, I know the writers are capable, especially because the 100th episode of Vegas, "Ch-Ch-Changes" was done so well.

Other episodes, like the stuff with Paul Milander in seasons 1 and 2, and the episode "XX" which was in season 4 Didn't do so well, as Milander being transgendered and the woman who killed her lover over jealousy seemed to reinforce the idea that "Gay is bad."

I do understand love_fan's trepidation about a person being bisexual. It would likely end up turning out to be a ratings ploy and a person turning out "straight" or experimenting, especially if it were not well received.

I haven't been much of a TV watcher up until very recently, so a lot of the stuff on up until 3 or 4 years ago, I haven't really seen much of or heard all that much about.

So, IMO, one of the most groundbreakingly influential LGBT characters on a TV show that I've seen is probably Willow Rosenberg from Buffy. It was really interesting to watch her character evolve from meek little science girl to powerful, practicing witch and out lesbian in a strong relationship. Yes, they did take her through some dark turns with an addiction to magic, resulting in the loss of her partner, then losing it in a spectacular fashion when her partner was killed, but that was part of her whole story arc that featured some killer character development, which was largley due to Joss Whedon. Also, as an aside, isn't Douglas Petrie, one of the writers/producers on Buffy now a producer on CSI: LV?

Also, in November, 2007, Afterelton.com did a thing on the 25 most influential LGBT characters on TV. I was a bit disappointed that many were from somewhat more stereotypical. I do understand there haven't been many gay characters to work with, but.....still.

Your thoughts?

http://www.afterelton.com/people/2007/11/top25gayTVcharacters
 
It could work if done right, however CSI writers have not even been able to pull off a het relationship without screwing it up because they have no clue when it comes to real chemistry and the romance department in general, so pulling off a slash relationship would be very hard.

I am a Nick & Greg slash fan, but that being said I don't think I would trust TPTB to do it right as much as I would love to see it happen.

Also its seems the networks are still too scared and homophobic to go down that road. Maybe in the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top