Could Canon Slash Work?

I'm rather hesitant of a character turning out bisexual. I don't have anything against bisexuality but in the end those characters always end up in an heterosexual relationship. It's mostly done for rating and doesn't really help to integrate homosexuality.
Boy, I hope no one misunderstands me. ;)

I totally understand you and agree. Bisexuality can be easily used as the emergency exit what is wrong 'cause again we have stereotypes. Bisexuality is not a "way out" when something is awkward. More trouble can make writing a bisexual relationship than homosexual - all in all, it's still a relationship of two people but what when in relationship are more than two? And I don't mean the swingers story from Swap Meet, season 5. I mean normal and healthy relationship of a guy with other guy and a woman or a woman with a man and a woman. Making bisexual person straight in TV show is only easier way to deal with "the homosexual part". Personally, I think it's silly and I'd love to see not only slash but a threesome relationship of bisexual person too. But that can be too much for CSI and CBS, lol. But well, many of you said that writers just can't write romance so better when they would leave this subject. Of course, I wouldn't mind surprise, especially when in CSI we have new writers.
 
I completely agree that the LGBT population is a part of life and that there are gays and lesbians in all professions. I also agree that they should show an LGBT person that is not a victim or perpetrator. Even something simple as being with a same sex partner as an alibi. ... Other episodes, like the stuff with Paul Milander in seasons 1 and 2, and the episode "XX" which was in season 4 Didn't do so well, as Milander being transgendered and the woman who killed her lover over jealousy seemed to reinforce the idea that "Gay is bad."
I think if they're going to have LGBT representation in the series, there is inevitably going to be a gay killer and/or a victim who dies over jealousy/stupidity/any other motive that is used on the shows. (And there have definitely been a lot of jealousy-type motives for heterosexual killers on all three shows.) That being said, if they had gay characters in a broader spectrum of roles, it wouldn't be so bad. (Gay people can't always just be the good guys and the innocent bystanders - if we want it to be fair, anyway. ;))

If we think of an average case on these shows - there's usually a victim, a killer, maybe a witness and an innocent suspect. That's not exact, but I'd say it's a pretty generic estimate of the minimum number of people involved in a case. So that's four characters per case (not including the CSIs, lab techs, detectives and coroners, of course). If we take the "10%" rule (which isn't necessarily accurate, but I'm just being theoretical) into account, out of 100 cases, with 400 characters (if there are those four people for each case), we should see closer to 40 LGBT people in that span of time, rather than just a few here and there.

I'm not saying they have to make sure to include one gay person for every 9 straight people, I'm just saying it's obvious that the representation is nowhere near accurate. Of course, the same can be said for different races (particularly on New York - I swear, it seems like they rarely have anybody who isn't white), disabilities (what happened to Dr Giles?! I loved his voice, plus he was just generally awesome), etc. I think at this point the shows have to consciously include a variety of people because it's apparently not the 'natural' way of thinking for people in the industry at this point (considering the television landscape, I mean - I hope that makes sense). Eventually, it will hopefully get to the point where television more accurately mirrors real life.

But I digress. Basically, I think they need to make a point of showing all sorts of diversity on television, including on these shows, and that includes greater LGBT representation.

I also think that adding a few more experts could solve two problems at once - 1) it would allow them to bring in one-off or recurring characters that could be gay/disabled/of a different race without having to make them a victim or a killer, and 2) it would make the CSIs (particularly on NY) look less like they know everything. Hawkes doesn't have to magically know everything about computers - they could bring in a computer expert to help him, and it would be more realistic and, like I said, provide an extra space to include another talented actor. :)

And that's just talking about guest/recurring characters, of course. ;)

I do understand love_fan's trepidation about a person being bisexual. It would likely end up turning out to be a ratings ploy and a person turning out "straight" or experimenting, especially if it were not well received.
A bisexual character is tricky, I agree. Technically, they could fall in love with a man or a woman, but if they choose to write the character with someone of the opposite sex, it's automatically going to anger some people who feel that it's a cop-out, or it would feel like the 'safe' way to include someone who isn't straight without having to actually make them 'not straight'. Whether or not that was TPTB's intention would be irrelevant because that's how people would take it.

While I agree with what everybody has said about CBS being more conservative than other networks - I really don't think that's an excuse. If people have a problem with something being shown on television, nobody is forcing them to watch that show. Networks shouldn't try to cater to any portion of the population unless they are a niche network (for lack of a better phrase), like Logo or TV One. The major networks should concentrate on creating the best programming to compete with the other networks and attract viewers, period. (And while there are viewers who wouldn't watch a show where a major character was gay, there are plenty of people who would watch the show.)

Besides, on shows where they routinely deal with sex, drugs, and (more than anything) murder in sometimes graphic and shocking ways for entertainment, I don't see how they can justify homosexuality continuing to be "taboo".

So, uh, after all of that rambling...

Yes, I think canon slash could work - and I think they'd realize that if they actually did it. It's easy to say, 'Oh, that would never work' without actually putting forth the effort to give it a try.
 
Last edited:
Who is Dr. Giles? Is that the older corner guy who was in the first ep of CSI Vegas and doing the autopsy with Gil and Holly in the room?
 
No, he was in a few episodes of CSI:NY during the first season, played by J Grant Albrecht. He worked in the lab. (I mentioned him because he's in a wheelchair. And because I love his voice - and looking at the amount of voicework on his IMDb page, I guess I'm not the only one. :p)
 
While I agree with what everybody has said about CBS being more conservative than other networks - I really don't think that's an excuse. If people have a problem with something being shown on television, nobody is forcing them to watch that show. Networks shouldn't try to cater to any portion of the population unless they are a niche network (for lack of a better phrase), like Logo or TV One. The major networks should concentrate on creating the best programming to compete with the other networks and attract viewers, period. (And while there are viewers who wouldn't watch a show where a major character was gay, there are plenty of people who would watch the show.)

Besides, on shows where they routinely deal with sex, drugs, and (more than anything) murder in sometimes graphic and shocking ways for entertainment, I don't see how they can justify homosexuality continuing to be "taboo".

So, uh, after all of that rambling...

Yes, I think canon slash could work - and I think they'd realize that if they actually did it. It's easy to say, 'Oh, that would never work' without actually putting forth the effort to give it a try.

Very well said, Faylinn. I love your post.

It's 2009 and times are changing. Homosexuality shouldn't be a taboo anymore.
 
It's 2009 and times are changing. Homosexuality shouldn't be a taboo anymore.

AMEN, SISTER!. I think that's the crux of this thread. I think that Canon Slash Could work, and should be shown on screen, but there are so many people out there that think it's taboo that the networks (Like CBS) are going to be Chickensh.t and not go there, unless it's "edgy" or something. :rolleyes:

Faylinn said:
I think if they're going to have LGBT representation in the series, there is inevitably going to be a gay killer and/or a victim who dies over jealousy/stupidity/any other motive that is used on the shows. (And there have definitely been a lot of jealousy-type motives for heterosexual killers on all three shows.) That being said, if they had gay characters in a broader spectrum of roles, it wouldn't be so bad. (Gay people can't always just be the good guys and the innocent bystanders - if we want it to be fair, anyway. ;))

I agree with this completely, it's just that all too often, if there's an LGBT character in the series, they are the killer or a victim who dies over Jealousy or revenge for being scorned. I'd just like to see fair representation for gays, that's all. Like you said, a broad spectrum of roles.
 
It's 2009 and times are changing. Homosexuality shouldn't be a taboo anymore


Very true- there is nothing else to say to that...

The thing is, CBS is just like any other comodiety?, if the need is not there then they would sterotype a character to fit in with the popula concept.

Yes Bobby should've been gay, and all things considered then two other characters are most definatly gay- but thats my perspective.

Like someone else said- they cant make straight couples work- why would they make gay or bisexual couples work?

The world is full of differences- but sadly the media only portrails a selection of this differences.
 
Hopefully I don't get chewed out by people, and hopefully I'm not spoiling anything for anyone but, on All My Children, a show I haven't seen in YEARS, is actually doing a lesbian story line between longtime lesbian character Bianca and new comer Reese. But now, recent spoilers are saying that Reese bails and becomes bisexual instead of completely lesbian.

This is something that irratates me. It's almost as if on TV, it's easier to write a bisexual characters storylines then a lesbian's. I don't understand while people insist on doing that. I know it's only a soap opera but I think it is reflective of the media's portrayal of gay and lesbian characters.
 
The probably do it because if they make a character bisexual instead, that gives them more writing opportunities. I think that's a pitiful excuse though. I remember watching All My Children years ago when Bianca first came out and they always seemed to make her relationships with other females short.

I think there's another soap that has a gay couple. Daytime TV seems more apt to go with canon slash than primetime tv.
 
The probably do it because if they make a character bisexual instead, that gives them more writing opportunities. I think that's a pitiful excuse though. I remember watching All My Children years ago when Bianca first came out and they always seemed to make her relationships with other females short.

I think there's another soap that has a gay couple. Daytime TV seems more apt to go with canon slash than primetime tv.

Yes, it's really a pitiful excuse.

The soap opera you are talking about is a CBS show (yes, CBS) "As The World Turns". The gay couple on that show is Luke & Noah, which has a pretty large following.
 
Is it just me or does it seem like whenever there are major characters on any drama tv shows that are written as gay they are either females or teens?
 
The probably do it because if they make a character bisexual instead, that gives them more writing opportunities. I think that's a pitiful excuse though. I remember watching All My Children years ago when Bianca first came out and they always seemed to make her relationships with other females short.

I think there's another soap that has a gay couple. Daytime TV seems more apt to go with canon slash than primetime tv.

Yes, it's really a pitiful excuse.

The soap opera you are talking about is a CBS show (yes, CBS) "As The World Turns". The gay couple on that show is Luke & Noah, which has a pretty large following.

Oh, I thought we were talking about All My Children, which is on ABC.

I didn't know "As The World Turns" had a gay storyline too. Interesting. I will say, I am surprised it is on CBS. I just wish is was more available then on just soaps.
 
Someone just posted this hilarious article on another forum. It doesn't exactly answer this page's question, but I found it quite amusing nonetheless, even as someone who very rarely reads femslash. And before you click, just know it's satire. But the fact that they mention Cath and Sara specifically made it seem relevant, and providing of laughs. Very cute.
 
Someone just posted this hilarious article on another forum. It doesn't exactly answer this page's question, but I found it quite amusing nonetheless, even as someone who very rarely reads femslash. And before you click, just know it's satire. But the fact that they mention Cath and Sara specifically made it seem relevant, and providing of laughs. Very cute.


So this article isn't true?

I don't mean to sound like a dufus, just sometimes things in print aren't as clear. It was funny though.:lol:

And if CSI is going to bring out a couple, I propose we go with..Hodges and Bobby Dawson:lol:..but that's for another thread..
 
^It's not true, as amusing as it would be.

Bobby D and Hodges. Lol! I can see that. But, in that case, poor Bobby D. I think the CSIs would have another scene when Bobby utilized his knowledge of ballistics after Hodges annoyed him to the point of insanity. Or perhaps he just got tired of competing with Hodges' mancrush on Grissom. Or he didn't want to watch anymore Star Trek. But I digress. Nice idea though :guffaw:
And you don't sound like a doofus. It's satire, so I think you're kind of supposed to think it's true at first. There were at least a few people who commented on the article that seemed to think it was real too.

Anyways, I think it does raise an interesting question of how subtext, of any sort, is interpreted, especially when you're supposed to convey tone objectively. I wonder if people who watch CSI in different languages interpret such things differently, perhaps because the tone of voice changes.

To the question of whether slash works, I think it's not so much an issue of whether slash would work, but rather whether canon ships in general work on CSI. One thing I really like about the show is that everyone's free to see the subtext they want to see. I'm generally stuck between ships, but I like to think that I can find subtext for any of them. In that way, CSI is like an equal-opportunity ship show. Anyone can see what they want to. Personally, I'd rather it sticks with that model. Plus it feels like most romances tend to clash, tone-wise, with the show.

As for whether canon slash would actually work on CSI, I have to say that I really think the answer is no, as sad as that is. I've lived in two very liberal cities on the East Coast -- Boston and D.C. -- but I still see plenty of homophobia. One of my best friends, for example, is a relatively tolerant person. She's friends with people who fit in all spectrums of LGBT, but she just isn't comfortable with seeing two people of the same sex kiss. Sadly, I think there are a lot of people like her. I think it would also be more difficult for CSI because it appeals to an older audience. While GenY and GenX tend to be more comfortable with homosexuality, including PDAs, I definitely get the impression that the Boomers and other older generations are less comfortable with it.

That said, I think it totally depends on the country and region. I have little doubt that it would go over better in western Europe than in more conservative pockets of the U.S.
 
Back
Top