Character Development/Screentime Discussion

I'm so not refering to the great actor LF, but in fact the chararacter Dr. Raymond Langston, I admire his expertise, and his low-key cool gentle, laid back persona & his smooth deameanor. And on last week's case I saw Catherine and Nick and Greg as the most shinning characters, especially Catherine, she kicked a.. and took over in a supervisory position which she is. I was commenting that he, like Nick was still working on the case ,even though in terrible pain, which was his choice. I think he is one of the best characters ever on the show. And Greg who discovered the plane in the tree. Their all smart cookies and work together as a team. when will it be a-OK for him, to according to some be accepted by fans? in 10 years? He has been accepted by the team so that's enough for most, and for me and other fans, it's fantastic~To each one's own on what they perceive on the characters, I'm certainly not going to slam any other team member, I like them all~
 
I'm sure that it won't take 10 years for fans to warm up to Ray. That would just be people being stubborn. :lol:

It basically just comes down to presentation. I can think of two possible ways the character could have been introduced that would have allowed fans to accept him quicker.

1) Have him appear as a consultant during Grissom's tenure for a longer period of time. Ray was great when he worked as one during "19 Down"/"One To Go". If we had had more of that, we would have seen more of him as an expert in his field and when it came time for him to work for the lab, it would have been more believable for the fans to see him rise up so quickly. As it happened, we got his brief introduction, one ep as a newbie, and then BAM!... Super Langston.

2) More time as newbie. By the end of season 9, Langston had developed all the traits that fans have shown to dislike (i.e. Super Langston). There was a very small time frame where he was allowed to be the newbie. Had the second half of season 9 focused on his trials and tribulations of dealing with the job, instead of already being an expert at a job he's never worked, fans would probably give him kudos for striving to be a level two by the time season 10 came about. What we got instead was some who presented himself as a wunderkind who appears to make the rest of the cast obsolete. Or, you know, Super Langston and his one man show "Mascara" (cue dramatic theme music).

Its all about presentation. I like Ray. I'm sure others do as well. Its just that the character as presented isn't meshing with the environment he's been introduced to. For 8 years previous, we saw a world where hierarchy mattered. Ecklie, Brass, Grissom, Catherine (the people at the top of the hierarchy) all enforced the ranking system. Nick, Warrick, Sara, Greg and others all had to go through the paces. Solo cases, trash runs, lead on case, etc. Each one was given a task based on their experience level. It was what the fans grew to accept and is one of the many aspects of the show that we grew to trust. Now Ray is bypassing that. That is what people are having a hard time accepting - no matter how hard tptb try to make us believe otherwise.
 
I totally disagree Praetor I feel the opposite about him, he's so meshed and bonded and fit in from the beginning. And in "Mascara" I remember Brass having a interal part of that episode, plus the other team members, not just Ray. I think his character is perfect and no problems at all. Now on Nick's character, will he accept going to see the PD shrink, he's buried his emotions very deep, but they come to the surface when faced with difficult sitiuations. He really needs to talk with someone and maybe get some help for his traumas. Like Cath said "You can't keep John Wayne-ing it" And back to Nick and Ray, in "Turn Turn Turn" when Nick was devastated by the girls death, who was there to comfort him, Cath, Greg, Sara, NO, it was Ray. When he was standing by the lockers, and shedding tears who was there to listen Ray. "She didn't have to die" His words of wisdom and his sharing his stories was indeed just the thing Nick needed at that time. "I'm so sorry Nick" and who was there for Ray when he was frustrated and devastated by the Dr. Jekyll, Nick, who was so sweet and went as far as to go to his house. "We're a team" he said. A admiration society, between them. So, that was a great scenerio. he bottom line for this characters title is he's always got a great ATTITUDE is up-beat, positive and ready to go, just like Nick. That's the thing that his fans see how well he's tuned in to his team mates and they with him. If the writers wanted hm to play a different role they would have done that from the onset, but it is what it is, and he's perfect for this role, maybe fans should look at him through Nick's eyes and see what he sees. I do hope if Nick sees a thearpist, it will show it, and the fans get to see it. Nick is such a great character o CSI, masculine yet sensitive and so smart. I hope he stays forever:bolian:
 
And back to Nick and Ray, in "Turn Turn Turn" when Nick was devastated by the girls death, who was there to comfort him, Cath, Greg, Sara, NO, it was Ray
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Actually, I'd consider that more of a coincidence more so then no one else caring. Ray happened to be in the right place at that particular time...and offered a some friendly advice.

on a past comment - I recall Hodges not liking Ray when he first appeared on the scene. It took a short while for him to warm up to the man. Sure, Hodges probably had his own reasons for not taking to kindly to Ray's presence at first, but the fact is, not everyone welcomed him with open arms.
 
DJRideout said:
And back to Nick and Ray, in "Turn Turn Turn" when Nick was devastated by the girls death, who was there to comfort him, Cath, Greg, Sara, NO, it was Ray
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Actually, I'd consider that more of a coincidence more so then no one else caring. Ray happened to be in the right place at that particular time...and offered a some friendly advice.

on a past comment - I recall Hodges not liking Ray when he first appeared on the scene. It took a short while for him to warm up to the man. Sure, Hodges probably had his own reasons for not taking to kindly to Ray's presence at first, but the fact is, not everyone welcomed him with open arms.
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Your right on the coincidence at the locker, but his words of wisdom, made Nick feel better. And on Hodges I forgot to mention that. He was so enamored and in awe of Grissom, and was such a baby when he left, so into himself and how this would effect him. Never said "Good Luck" or congratualtions. So, I was surprised by his actions regarding Ray The thing is Ray doesn't constantly insult him like Grissom did [and he never got it..poor guy], Ray doesn't insult him but treats him with kindness and niceness. He jokes with him "Hey Desi" "Hey Lucy" cute and funny. And that experiment they did on the roof, Hodges was impressed, who knew?:eek:
 
Damn, Desertwind. Once again, we've reached an impasse. I can see that you won't back down and neither will I. So I'll just leave it at that. Although I do always enjoy debating with you. You offer an interesting challenge. Its fun. :lol:
 
PraetorCorvinus said:
I'm sure that it won't take 10 years for fans to warm up to Ray. That would just be people being stubborn. :lol:

It basically just comes down to presentation. I can think of two possible ways the character could have been introduced that would have allowed fans to accept him quicker.

1) Have him appear as a consultant during Grissom's tenure for a longer period of time. Ray was great when he worked as one during "19 Down"/"One To Go". If we had had more of that, we would have seen more of him as an expert in his field and when it came time for him to work for the lab, it would have been more believable for the fans to see him rise up so quickly. As it happened, we got his brief introduction, one ep as a newbie, and then BAM!... Super Langston.

2) More time as newbie. By the end of season 9, Langston had developed all the traits that fans have shown to dislike (i.e. Super Langston). There was a very small time frame where he was allowed to be the newbie. Had the second half of season 9 focused on his trials and tribulations of dealing with the job, instead of already being an expert at a job he's never worked, fans would probably give him kudos for striving to be a level two by the time season 10 came about. What we got instead was some who presented himself as a wunderkind who appears to make the rest of the cast obsolete. Or, you know, Super Langston and his one man show "Mascara" (cue dramatic theme music).

Its all about presentation. I like Ray. I'm sure others do as well. Its just that the character as presented isn't meshing with the environment he's been introduced to. For 8 years previous, we saw a world where hierarchy mattered. Ecklie, Brass, Grissom, Catherine (the people at the top of the hierarchy) all enforced the ranking system. Nick, Warrick, Sara, Greg and others all had to go through the paces. Solo cases, trash runs, lead on case, etc. Each one was given a task based on their experience level. It was what the fans grew to accept and is one of the many aspects of the show that we grew to trust. Now Ray is bypassing that. That is what people are having a hard time accepting - no matter how hard tptb try to make us believe otherwise.
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You said it perfectly for me. :)
 
Before we change the topic, I wanted to say that that scene with Hodges and Ray in Grave Shift made me lose what respect I had left for Hodges and cemented Ray as a Marty Stu in my mind.

After all, Hodges had been idolising Grissom to the point of nearly being disturbing for all of six years, and was obviously very upset when said idol left. So it was understandable that he would be suspect of this new guy who had joined CSI. But then, one bomb experiment later, it's suddenly 'Oh, actually this guy is quite cool. I'm going to totally like and respect him and get over Grissom's loss really quickly.' Coming from the guy who's spent years with the CSI's and can still at times be a snarky jerk to them. Having the resident snarky/jerk guy instantly like the new guy is a classic symptom of Mary Sue-itis.

Now, moving on to some other topic :p
 
But guys and gals TPTB have impressed the majority of fans or the wouldn't have had him sign up for another season. And with Hodges that's how strong his gentle personality is one is around him for 5 minutes and is totally smitten with him. He is popular regardless what some say and mostly on here, I get it and many do not & that's not meant to insult anybody on their views. It's just that he's so likeable, so I'm baffled that everyone doesn't see him the way the team does and the way many fans do. I would just enjoy seeing some complimentary comments about him rather than derogatory ones:confused:Doesn't it make more sense to find positive traits rather then negative ones?
 
First off, I apologise if my pessimistic nature has managed to dishearten anyone. I'm British, so I've been genetically modified to find and exploit the worst in everything :p

Second off, I have never seen Ray as a 'likeable' character and most likely never will. Even if tptb hadn't formed him into a sneaky Marty Stu I wouldn't like him; I don't really like the actor and his character will always come off as boring to me, no matter how many kung fu fighting, motorbike riding skills they give him.

This, of course, is my opinion. It is an opinion that is shared by some and not by others. It shouldn't be 'baffling' that there are people out there who don't like Ray. The same applies to Greg, Grissom, Nick...where there's fans, there will be anti-fans; Yin and Yang and all that jazz.

It is a fact that Ray is not the 'boss' of the CSI's. It is fact that despite this characters like Greg are getting less screentime. It is a fact that some people will be mad about this, myself included :).
 
Desertwind said:
But guys and gals TPTB have impressed the majority of fans or the wouldn't have had him sign up for another season. And with Hodges that's how strong his gentle personality is one is around him for 5 minutes and is totally smitten with him. He is popular regardless what some say and mostly on here, I get it and many do not & that's not meant to insult anybody on their views. It's just that he's so likeable, so I'm baffled that everyone doesn't see him the way the team does and the way many fans do. I would just enjoy seeing some complimentary comments about him rather than derogatory ones:confused:Doesn't it make more sense to find positive traits rather then negative ones?
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I don't understand why some people have such hate for Langston either, Desertwind. I may have some problems with the way he's written at times but I'm still interested in Langston as a whole. He's like one big puzzle of a character when compared to Nick, Catherine, or Grissom. Grissom was so easy to figure out as a character but Langston is so layered. He keeps me interested unlike Boom Girl...
 
He so so "layered" good term he goes from cool, gentle and low-key to anxious and angry to full on rage, a man of many demensions. He's one of the best characters ever on CSI, so what I really enjoy is how the team reacts to him they are all in awe and admiration of him, and that's not just my opinion, it's a fact. He's electryfing. He even gets along with Icky Ecklie and Hodges, which Grissom never did. I know Nick has not much camraderie with either of those characters, and is cool toward them both. But, after 9 years I guess he deserves that right. Down the line maybe Ray will too:lol: I hope they let us see Nick talk to the PD thearpist and spill his heart out and maybe have some peace and tranquility with all his many traumas~
 
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So will the writers show Nick in counseling? Will he admit he's got problems and face them? And on Greg, will he or won't he have a love interest this season?
 
I'm not sure if what happened to Nick is going to warrant us seeing him with a shrink. There were three way better times previously (being stalked, buried alive, and Warrick's death) where we saw nothing. Don't get me wrong, I think it would provide for excellent character development. I just don't think it'll happen.

And now that I've said it, it probably will happen. :lol:

As for Greg:
Given the spoilers we've read, it sounds like he at least will get an interesting female entering his life for a minimum of one episode. At this point, I really can't guess. I have no idea how Von Teese is going to portray her character.
 
Cthulhu said:
I'm not sure if what happened to Nick is going to warrant us seeing him with a shrink. There were three way better times previously (being stalked, buried alive, and Warrick's death) where we saw nothing. Don't get me wrong, I think it would provide for excellent character development. I just don't think it'll happen.

And now that I've said it, it probably will happen. :lol:

As for Greg:
Given the spoilers we've read, it sounds like he at least will get an interesting female entering his life for a minimum of one episode. At this point, I really can't guess. I have no idea how Von Teese is going to portray her character.
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The thing is, Cath said it was "mandatory" and encouraged him to do this. I saw his distaste, he's such a macho guy, but maybe it would help to get some stuff off his chest, with a professional.. If it was mentioned, then I thbnk maybe TPTB will in fact follow through on this, and his issues~
 
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