MacsGirlMel
Mac's Personal Assistant
I was sad they didn't give more Morgan backstory...I hope they do next season. I wanna know what's with her and Ecklie.
"Cello and Goodbye" discussion **Spoilers**
- Thread starter DJRideout
- Start date
I liked Morgan, Sara, Cath and Al. That was it.
I'm probably going to be the only one to have this opinion, but while I like how the CSI's all went out of their way to backup Ray, I'm mixed about the fact that Nick, Greg and Hodges assisted him when they all knew Ray shouldn't have been anywhere near the case anymore. I know, Gloria's life was in danger. But really? For the first time, I was glad that Cath got mad at Nick and I wanted to shout at Greg to grow a spine and tell Ray to get out of the lab.
This pains me cause those two are my favorite characters. So I guess I'm going to have to scapegoat and get mad at Ray for bringing everyone else down with him.
And before anyone says it, I know! Gloria's life was in danger. I get it. I don't know what I would do in that situation. Which is why I'm so conflicted with this episode.
There were things I liked, of course. Morgan was great. She's got spunk. I like spunk. The phone call with Greg and Hodges was pretty funny. Sara being the calm, collected one was nice. And I really like Al.
I just can't wait for Haskell to be done with. For me, it's dragging everything down. I hate that...
I'm probably going to be the only one to have this opinion, but while I like how the CSI's all went out of their way to backup Ray, I'm mixed about the fact that Nick, Greg and Hodges assisted him when they all knew Ray shouldn't have been anywhere near the case anymore. I know, Gloria's life was in danger. But really? For the first time, I was glad that Cath got mad at Nick and I wanted to shout at Greg to grow a spine and tell Ray to get out of the lab.
This pains me cause those two are my favorite characters. So I guess I'm going to have to scapegoat and get mad at Ray for bringing everyone else down with him.
And before anyone says it, I know! Gloria's life was in danger. I get it. I don't know what I would do in that situation. Which is why I'm so conflicted with this episode.
There were things I liked, of course. Morgan was great. She's got spunk. I like spunk. The phone call with Greg and Hodges was pretty funny. Sara being the calm, collected one was nice. And I really like Al.
I just can't wait for Haskell to be done with. For me, it's dragging everything down. I hate that...
Rizzoli
Lab Technician
I could talk for hours as to why I liked this episode, but the main reason was Morgan Brody. She didn't have much backstory, but she rocked her scenes and I can't wait to see her full-time next season, if anybody can fill the gap left by Catherine's imminent departure, it appears to be Morgan
Another thing I loved was Hodges talking to Nick on the phone, what he said was so true.
Another thing I loved was Hodges talking to Nick on the phone, what he said was so true.
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As a whole the episode was OK. My only problem is that it's reached the point that you can't ignore Haskell like you used to be able to.
Ray was way too close to the case before Gloria's life was in danger. He never should have been brought to L A, and that I put on Catherine. And I don't care if L A may have wanted Ray Langston. He's not the only CSI in Vegas that knows DJK at this point!
I knew Nick was going to back up Ray before seeing any spoilers for it. Nick would have backed up any of them. It's in his character. He sees the good in everybody and not always the bad. That's how he had Jason McCann after him, is he refused to see the bad. I think Catherine knew he would too, which is why she didn't send him back to Vegas with Ray.
Hodges was Hodges. Lets face it he may have moved out on Mom but he definitely doesn't have any backbone. I was surprised it took him that long before logging in on the computer for Ray. :lol:
Greg was really being non-commital. Like he was in Redrum. Unless there's someone there who's backing him up he just seems to go with the flow. It was really kinda stupid of him to leave Ray alone in the lab with the laptop still logged in, though.
I am a little upset at Doc Robbins for bringing Ray to the lab. But if I was Catherine I would have called Brass and told him to pick Ray up in a police car and bring him home (not Doc). After all, he had already skipped out once after showing grief and saying he was going home.
I may be the only one but I'm non-commital on Morgan Brody. One episode was not enough for me to really tell what the character is like. We haven't seen her opposite Greg, Ecklie, or any of the labrats so I'll wait to form an opinion.
Susan
Ray was way too close to the case before Gloria's life was in danger. He never should have been brought to L A, and that I put on Catherine. And I don't care if L A may have wanted Ray Langston. He's not the only CSI in Vegas that knows DJK at this point!
I knew Nick was going to back up Ray before seeing any spoilers for it. Nick would have backed up any of them. It's in his character. He sees the good in everybody and not always the bad. That's how he had Jason McCann after him, is he refused to see the bad. I think Catherine knew he would too, which is why she didn't send him back to Vegas with Ray.
Hodges was Hodges. Lets face it he may have moved out on Mom but he definitely doesn't have any backbone. I was surprised it took him that long before logging in on the computer for Ray. :lol:
Greg was really being non-commital. Like he was in Redrum. Unless there's someone there who's backing him up he just seems to go with the flow. It was really kinda stupid of him to leave Ray alone in the lab with the laptop still logged in, though.
I am a little upset at Doc Robbins for bringing Ray to the lab. But if I was Catherine I would have called Brass and told him to pick Ray up in a police car and bring him home (not Doc). After all, he had already skipped out once after showing grief and saying he was going home.
I may be the only one but I'm non-commital on Morgan Brody. One episode was not enough for me to really tell what the character is like. We haven't seen her opposite Greg, Ecklie, or any of the labrats so I'll wait to form an opinion.
Susan
ladyhunter
Head of the Swing Shift
I think CSI is either over the top lately with outrageous storylines like this one, or very blah like most of last season.
Granted, I remember, as much of this board does, the PILOT episode was Gil Grissom on the trail of Paul Milander. The man who hunted men with the same birthday as the day his father died.
Yes, Gil got upset and walked out (On the encouragement of the Sheriff) and was later greeted by Catherine in his home and the rest of the team standing by him.
Tell me now, how come that story line worked and this one didn't???
I did like Ray, two seasons ago when he was a humbled doctor with a not so pretty past dealing with his work. And I did like his back story about calling out the doctors who were killing patients at the hospital he worked for. That couldn't have been easy.
And the idea that he taught a class dealing with serial killers and their behavior. I really liked that too. Something he himself deals with every day of his life.
As much as I liked how he blended in during the latter part of season 9, what happened between then and now?
Last seasons storyline of bringing Nate in to catch Dr. Jekyll was great! It me, it worked. Haskell demonstrated how truly creepy manipulative he is.
But, CSI took it to the extreme.
Ray going over Cath's head. Ray going off the grid by obtaining a gun and a computer. Ray going around his computer lock out by way of Hodges.
Anyone who did those things in any other work environment would be fired!!!! So why isn't Ray? Because he's going to catch a serial killer? Isn't that the job for oh, I don't know, the police? Where was Vartann, Where was Brass, hell where was the LAPD Sheriff?
Don't get me wrong, I did like Det. Sosa. And in my opinion, he should be a regular on the show when it does morph into CSI: LA. That's just me.
Again, Ray is a criminalist. Without any regard for his team, why is he going to LA by himself? Let alone getting a gun and a computer. That set me over the edge. Way way way to unrealistic even for CSI.
I'm sorry but season 11 had such promise. Such potential to recapture what and why people started watching. Unfortunately, it's going to end on a very different, very unappealing note.
Two bright notes to the episode; Ecklie's daughter. I hope we see her again. And Det. Sosa.
Granted, I remember, as much of this board does, the PILOT episode was Gil Grissom on the trail of Paul Milander. The man who hunted men with the same birthday as the day his father died.
Yes, Gil got upset and walked out (On the encouragement of the Sheriff) and was later greeted by Catherine in his home and the rest of the team standing by him.
Tell me now, how come that story line worked and this one didn't???
I did like Ray, two seasons ago when he was a humbled doctor with a not so pretty past dealing with his work. And I did like his back story about calling out the doctors who were killing patients at the hospital he worked for. That couldn't have been easy.
And the idea that he taught a class dealing with serial killers and their behavior. I really liked that too. Something he himself deals with every day of his life.
As much as I liked how he blended in during the latter part of season 9, what happened between then and now?
Last seasons storyline of bringing Nate in to catch Dr. Jekyll was great! It me, it worked. Haskell demonstrated how truly creepy manipulative he is.
But, CSI took it to the extreme.
Ray going over Cath's head. Ray going off the grid by obtaining a gun and a computer. Ray going around his computer lock out by way of Hodges.
Anyone who did those things in any other work environment would be fired!!!! So why isn't Ray? Because he's going to catch a serial killer? Isn't that the job for oh, I don't know, the police? Where was Vartann, Where was Brass, hell where was the LAPD Sheriff?
Don't get me wrong, I did like Det. Sosa. And in my opinion, he should be a regular on the show when it does morph into CSI: LA. That's just me.
Again, Ray is a criminalist. Without any regard for his team, why is he going to LA by himself? Let alone getting a gun and a computer. That set me over the edge. Way way way to unrealistic even for CSI.
I'm sorry but season 11 had such promise. Such potential to recapture what and why people started watching. Unfortunately, it's going to end on a very different, very unappealing note.
Two bright notes to the episode; Ecklie's daughter. I hope we see her again. And Det. Sosa.
I thought it was to Nick as well in the beginning, especially when he said "you're the only one who could understand"... because of Nick's reaction to McKeen and all.
As for Nick helping Ray, I think he is trying to keep a repeat of what happened to Warrick from happening to Ray. I think Nick's really became even more overprotective of his co-workers/friends since Warrick's death (not that he wasn't protective before, but now it's magnified I think).
Technically, Greg didn't leave Ray alone in the lab, Hodges was still there. Then Ray got Hodges to leave by asking him to get coffee.
As for Sosa, I liked his scenes with Ray and thought they were on point, but I didn't care for his attitude toward Cath and Sara because they didn't deserve it. If he appears once in a while, I'm fine with that, but I'm not sure I would want him as a regular. I'd rather have Vega to be honest... or that cop that worked with Sara in one ep last season (the guy from without a trace).
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Because in "The Strip Strangler" it was made clear that Grissom was opposed to how the case was being handled, not that he was 'too close.' It was a political situation he objected to, and everyone else agreed the FBI were idiots.
Also I think that Paul Millander only worked the first time. After that, it got more and more fantastical.
Speedystokesgirl
Judge
IGranted, I remember, as much of this board does, the PILOT episode was Gil Grissom on the trail of Paul Milander. The man who hunted men with the same birthday as the day his father died.
Yes, Gil got upset and walked out (On the encouragement of the Sheriff) and was later greeted by Catherine in his home and the rest of the team standing by him.
Tell me now, how come that story line worked and this one didn't???
Actually, when Grissom walked out that was for the 'The Strip Strangler' episode and not because of Milander.
Ok, now that I've read some comments I can see why Catherine got pissy at Nick, however, she did bring Ray with her to LA and even she knows he should have NOT been anywhere near this case anymore.
I agree with PC, Greg needs to grow a spine. And Blackflag, you're right he is just how he was in Redrum. Greg needs to learn how to take a stand and get some cojones. In any case he was funny with Hodges and the phone call to Nick.
Nick was in character with helping Ray. That's just him and even Catherine said she knew he would do it. I agree, after what happened to Warrick Nick is the protective one of the team.
I agree that LF did a good job. Who could tell how he was feeling just by expressions on his face. Just like with George Eads. That's a sign of great acting.
The writers didn't seem to want any of the regular characters to oppose Ray too much. Rather than going to the lab, Ray should have called the lab and asked them to check out the leads or whatever instead of intimidating the guys into doing it or letting him do it. What worries me is that they are all (Nick and Cath included and possibly Sara) probably gonna have their jobs on the line because of this when Ecklie gets wind of it all.
The two powerful looks from Ray in this ep were the horror on his face when he saw all the blood at the crime scene (before they realized it all belonged to the husband) and the look of relief and hope on his face when Haskell said Gloria was still alive.
Haskell sounded like such a nut when he was shouting "she's still alive" though. Fruity as a fruitcake.
The two powerful looks from Ray in this ep were the horror on his face when he saw all the blood at the crime scene (before they realized it all belonged to the husband) and the look of relief and hope on his face when Haskell said Gloria was still alive.
Haskell sounded like such a nut when he was shouting "she's still alive" though. Fruity as a fruitcake.
hiphugger17
Coroner
I was surprised at how good the episode was until the carousel scene yikes! I was really unimpressed with that scene.
Good things:
-Morgan! Really liked her. I think she worked great with the team and I'm intrigued as to her relationship with Conrad. Looking forward to seeing her next season.
-Sara and Catherine working together so much.
-"Made you look" :lol:
Bad things:
Ok aside from the whole Raskell storyline.... I really, really disliked all the insubordination going around. Nick doesn't tell Cath he found Ray and goes off with him to hunt Haskell. Even if it is "in character" it's still not an excuse and it still doesn't make it right. He knows better than to not inform something like that to his boss, especially given the circumstances. Hodges logs Ray in. Greg participates with Hodges and even though I don't expect much from Hodges I did expect more from Greg. Even Doc Robbins went ahead and did the opposite of what Cath said. And I won't even get started of Ray. Suspension is the least he should get. I really didn't like the lack of respect they showed toward Catherine's authority. It really bugged me.
I was really unimpressed with that scene.Good things:
-Morgan!
Really liked her. I think she worked great with the team and I'm intrigued as to her relationship with Conrad. Looking forward to seeing her next season.-Sara and Catherine working together so much.
-"Made you look" :lol:
Bad things:
Ok aside from the whole Raskell storyline.... I really, really disliked all the insubordination going around. Nick doesn't tell Cath he found Ray and goes off with him to hunt Haskell. Even if it is "in character" it's still not an excuse and it still doesn't make it right. He knows better than to not inform something like that to his boss, especially given the circumstances. Hodges logs Ray in. Greg participates with Hodges and even though I don't expect much from Hodges I did expect more from Greg. Even Doc Robbins went ahead and did the opposite of what Cath said. And I won't even get started of Ray
. Suspension is the least he should get. I really didn't like the lack of respect they showed toward Catherine's authority. It really bugged me.Speedystokesgirl
Judge
I was surprised at how good the episode was until the carousel scene yikes!
Good things:
-Morgan!
-Sara and Catherine working together so much.
-"Made you look" :lol:
Bad things:
Ok aside from the whole Raskell storyline.... I really, really disliked all the insubordination going around. Nick doesn't tell Cath he found Ray and goes off with him to hunt Haskell. Even if it is "in character" it's still not an excuse and it still doesn't make it right. He knows better than to not inform something like that to his boss, especially given the circumstances. Hodges logs Ray in. Greg participates with Hodges and even though I don't expect much from Hodges I did expect more from Greg. Even Doc Robbins went ahead and did the opposite of what Cath said. And I won't even get started of Ray
Though I agree with what you said, Catherine is just as much to blame. She never should have brought Ray. After being a victim of Haskell's he never should have been involved with the case after that.
Kaunis Mies
Pathologist
I've yet to see this and cant wait..
Nick was in character with helping Ray. That's just him and even Catherine said she knew he would do it. I agree, after what happened to Warrick Nick is the protective one of the team.
I agree that LF did a good job. Who could tell how he was feeling just by expressions on his face. Just like with George Eads. That's a sign of great acting.
The funny thing is, that's why I'm frustrated with Nick. :lol: It's awesome how loyal he is and really shows how strong his character is. Yet that can also be a weakness. Loyalty and over-protectiveness can make someone blind. It's a double-edged sword...
And I will agree with the acting of both those men. Fishburne really sells his character conflict. I may not be a Ray fan, but you can't knock the actor's performance. And Eads is just awesome. He really puts his all into it.
I don't know, I kind of felt like Ray's comment of "you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution" could be seen as kind of intimidating and if I didn't understand his plight (with Gloria being missing at the hands of a serial killer), it would be bordering on threatening/bullying (not saying I think this, just saying IF circumstances were less dire and someone said that). I know he was desperate and worried and all (so I can't blame him too much), but I just wish the writers hadn't written that scene like that. I wish they'd written like this, "Come on guys, Gloria is still alive, but if we don't find her soon, Haskell will kill her. Would you please help me?" It would have been a lot nicer (and shown respect for his co-workers) and not as annoying how they all just accepted what Ray was doing with little argument.
I just can't understand why they wrote it this way. Why they felt the need to have all the characters cave in like that is beyond me. They should have had him go off on his own completely instead of pulling everyone else in like they had him do.
Why did Ray have to buy a gun though? He did carry a gun at certain times. I mean there was one season finale where he shot a suspect, so... I'm confused as to why he'd have to buy a gun. Weird.
I just can't understand why they wrote it this way. Why they felt the need to have all the characters cave in like that is beyond me. They should have had him go off on his own completely instead of pulling everyone else in like they had him do.
Why did Ray have to buy a gun though? He did carry a gun at certain times. I mean there was one season finale where he shot a suspect, so... I'm confused as to why he'd have to buy a gun. Weird.
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hiphugger17
Coroner
I was surprised at how good the episode was until the carousel scene yikes!
Good things:
-Morgan!
-Sara and Catherine working together so much.
-"Made you look" :lol:
Bad things:
Ok aside from the whole Raskell storyline.... I really, really disliked all the insubordination going around. Nick doesn't tell Cath he found Ray and goes off with him to hunt Haskell. Even if it is "in character" it's still not an excuse and it still doesn't make it right. He knows better than to not inform something like that to his boss, especially given the circumstances. Hodges logs Ray in. Greg participates with Hodges and even though I don't expect much from Hodges I did expect more from Greg. Even Doc Robbins went ahead and did the opposite of what Cath said. And I won't even get started of Ray
Though I agree with what you said, Catherine is just as much to blame. She never should have brought Ray. After being a victim of Haskell's he never should have been involved with the case after that.
You are right she shouldn't have taken Ray. I would've understood better if they had said that Ray was there just for his "expertise" on Haskell (though that's questionable given Haskell has played him so much) but would have to be hands off with the evidence. However, that doesn't justify or absolve of blame the insubordination of any of the characters.