Well, I don't know what they intended it to be by making some answers wrong, but again, the correct answer would have been storms. I think they just changed some tho to make it okay to show it on TV without the rights to it or whatever, but it's still strange that 19 down was the empty word.
If you look closely, the words around 19 down were altered slightly. I really think this was done to create a fake crossword puzzle.
One that dosn't have an answer.
One that Grissom couldn't complete.
One that was the final straw in pushing Grissom to leave the lab.
I just wanted to add my 'nicely done' to finding the puzzle. I had no clue where to look. I thought there were some wrong letters, but without the clues it's kinda hard. And I agree with some on here; it's not so much that he couldn't finish it, I just think it wasn't important to him anymore. At the end of YKM, Hodges told Grissom he wasn't ready to leave with Sara because he still liked puzzle solving, but now, not so much.
Again, great find!
I think Catherine would be supportive as long as Grissom is happy, no matter who he's with. To me, Sara is never the reason why Catherine cares. Grissom is. It's just that Sara happened to be the one that was with him. You're right about one thing. Catherine respects him and encourages him to find happiness. And she'd still do that even if his happiness isn't related to Sara. Let's just not forget how supportive she was to Grissom and Teri Miller back in season 1.
well, i both agree and disagree. i think Cath is definitely more of a Grissom's friend than Sara's and that she would be on his side, if anything happened, but i don't think she doesn't care about Sara at all. they've had some rocky moments but i do believe that Catherine wants them both to be happy. and if it means happy together, that's killing two birds with one stone, so to speak. i think that despite their differences Cath and Sara are friends who care for one another.
Oh no. I never meant that Catherine didn't care for Sara at all. And yes, she and Sara were definitely friends of some sort, but let's face it. Although they cared for each other to some extend, they didn't always get a long (though I wish they did) and could be pretty hostile to each other at times. The interactions between either one of them with the guys were way better than the interaction between themselves. Back to my original point in my reply to another poster's review, what I wanted to say was this review seemed to have narrowed everything down to just GSR and nothing else, and I disagree on that because I think that it was so much more than just a relationship, that what Catherine really cares about is Grissom's happiness which doesn't necessarily have to be Sara (although she in fact may be part of it), and that what the scene showed was a great friendship between Grissom and Catherine, not Grissom's relationship with someone else. I seriously have no idea why it turned into a talk about whether Catherine cared for Sara or not. Anyway, glad that you and I have at least come to some sort of agreement.
And I know you don't ship Catherine and Warrick, but that's not really relative to this since she did have feelings for him? lol.
i understood you said she doesn't care about Sara being a part of the relationship. glad we've cleared it up.
what I wanted to say was this review seemed to have narrowed everything down to just GSR and nothing else, and I disagree on that because I think that it was so much more than just a relationship, that what Catherine really cares about is Grissom's happiness which doesn't necessarily have to be Sara (although she in fact may be part of it), and that what the scene showed was a great friendship between Grissom and Catherine, not Grissom's relationship with someone else.
i totally understand and i agree. sometimes though, i feel like it's a risk to say anything GSR-related on a general forum when it's not been said specifically on the show that 'this scene is about GSR and only GSR!'. i mean, i understand that it could be interpreted in a billion ways but when somebody shares their opinion and says 'to me it was totally about GSR' they are getting reproved. let them have an opinion of their own, it's nothing wrong. *shugs*
I think Catherine and Sara weren't very much connected except in work ways, but now that I think of it, wasn't there that episode when they went for drinks after Sara found out her boyfriend was cheating on her. I guess Sara could be a person who's hard to get close to. I think she cares about Grissom as a good friend.
It was very usual of Grissom to be non-chalant about leaving, even though many of the co-workers were shocked. This episode did have some eerie moments. That Dick and Jane killer is sure creepy. I wouldn't want to do a class like that at all. You can't trust psychopaths. It seems like they often BS people. I wonder how people do psych evals of them though. I know the professor said be honest, but still. The episode seemed to go by so fast. It's so awful that the next one isn't until Jan. 15. Maybe I'm dumb, but did they ever identify the person found at the beginning or how was the guy who's found in the home connected witht he Dick and Jane killer?I'm sorry. I have troubles with details some.
i understood you said she doesn't care about Sara being a part of the relationship. glad we've cleared it up.
what I wanted to say was this review seemed to have narrowed everything down to just GSR and nothing else, and I disagree on that because I think that it was so much more than just a relationship, that what Catherine really cares about is Grissom's happiness which doesn't necessarily have to be Sara (although she in fact may be part of it), and that what the scene showed was a great friendship between Grissom and Catherine, not Grissom's relationship with someone else.
i totally understand and i agree. sometimes though, i feel like it's a risk to say anything GSR-related on a general forum when it's not been said specifically on the show that 'this scene is about GSR and only GSR!'. i mean, i understand that it could be interpreted in a billion ways but when somebody shares their opinion and says 'to me it was totally about GSR' they are getting reproved. let them have an opinion of their own, it's nothing wrong. *shugs*
Catherine was simply saying to Grissom she knew before he did he was leaving and I believe it had nothing to do with Sara, but the changes in his behaviour since Warrick's death. She commented on it long before 19Down.
I think, however, the trouble here is GSR fans (not all) reduce every scene with Grissom as a GSR scene because they are so hungry for GSR.
I was over at another message board where someone mentioned they saw this guy asking a girl for a drink and Grissom glanced over at them-well that was GSR because Grissom was remember inviting Sara (or vice versa) to drinks at some university. I thought Grissom was just displaying concern for the girl and a bit of suspicion towards the guy.
That is how I saw it because as I see Grissom-Sara is not everything to him because he has many different interests, so many interests in things.
I thougth Grissom was ultra hot in the episode when he took on that serial killer. I missed that Gil Grissom so much!
I think Catherine and Sara weren't very much connected except in work ways, but now that I think of it, wasn't there that episode when they went for drinks after Sara found out her boyfriend was cheating on her. I guess Sara could be a person who's hard to get close to. I think she cares about Grissom as a good friend.
It was very usual of Grissom to be non-chalant about leaving, even though many of the co-workers were shocked. This episode did have some eerie moments. That Dick and Jane killer is sure creepy. I wouldn't want to do a class like that at all. You can't trust psychopaths. It seems like they often BS people. I wonder how people do psych evals of them though. I know the professor said be honest, but still. The episode seemed to go by so fast. It's so awful that the next one isn't until Jan. 15. Maybe I'm dumb, but did they ever identify the person found at the beginning or how was the guy who's found in the home connected witht he Dick and Jane killer?I'm sorry. I have troubles with details some.
I think Sara and Catherine are friends. I have coworkers that I don't see much socially outside the office because we are all different and all have our own lives; but I trust them and they have been there for me when I needed them in times of crisis. Sara has helped Catherine at times, and vice versa. I read somewhere that early on the writers intended for those characters to be more adversarial, but that Jorja and Marg went to them and asked them to change that so they would get along better. I think they didn't want it to be the stereotypical 'cat fight' between females in the work place. Good for them!
Back on topic. I would recommend GregsChristmasPresent that you rewatch the episode on the CBS website. I had to watch it a couple times to get all the victims and perps straight. There is always something I miss the first time around and this one was a little more confusing.
Catherine was simply saying to Grissom she knew before he did he was leaving and I believe it had nothing to do with Sara, but the changes in his behaviour since Warrick's death. She commented on it long before 19Down.
I think, however, the trouble here is GSR fans (not all) reduce every scene with Grissom as a GSR scene because they are so hungry for GSR.
I was over at another message board where someone mentioned they saw this guy asking a girl for a drink and Grissom glanced over at them-well that was GSR because Grissom was remember inviting Sara (or vice versa) to drinks at some university. I thought Grissom was just displaying concern for the girl and a bit of suspicion towards the guy.
That is how I saw it because as I see Grissom-Sara is not everything to him because he has many different interests, so many interests in things.
yeah, you're right, that's kind of going overboard with it. lol. i guess the healthiest way is to have a balanced/realistic view about the show, and not really react to people who are obsessed with whichever ship.
i don't think Cath and Grissom's conversation in 19 Down pertained Sara, really. it was more of a general observation that many different factors contributed to. he was clearly burning out for 2 years before Warrick and Natalie happened and before Sara broke up with him. i just think he stopped being as excited about the job as he was before. the crossword he threw away symbolized his disinterest, and the fact that he is sick with all the tragedy.
Billy gave an interview 2 years ago to a Japanese TV where he said that Grissom is able to be a CSI b/c he is very connected to his childhood, that he compares the job to playing childhood games, is excited about the puzzle and about implementing his knowledge to make a difference but at the same time have fun doing it. i think the tragedy that landed so close to home (Natalie, then Warrick) took away that child-like attitude or excitement about the job, and brought him closer to reality and to the feelings of those who are affected by crime.
also, another factor i would add is that he has loved for the first time. imo, it could pronounce his sense of compassion for the victims and make it harder for him to work and maybe even remain fully detached.
So where do all you fans think Grissom is going? he seems to have a kinda of 'twinkle' in his eye and he won't reveal where he's going till he wants to? I love the comments from Doc and Brass, Doc 'Are you running away from something, or running to something" and Grissom in his own quick comeback goes "I'm ruinning to my office" and Doc, "your nuts" and the Brass comments he's so funny "Maybe we could do barbecues or go on the boat" Grissom goes "You've got a boat" Brass says "NO" & Grissoms always over the top expressions, and then they were interrupted. And on the serial freaky, disturbing, disgusting character, so evil he was to me, more like a Ted Bundy type than Jeffery Dahlmer, who ate his victimsbut so cunning like Charles Mansonreally convincing role who is this actor, anybody know?
Hi, been away for ages - chat had got too partisan for me.
Anyway:
yeah, you're right, that's kind of going overboard with it. lol. i guess the healthiest way is to have a balanced/realistic view about the show, and not really react to people who are obsessed with whichever ship.
i don't think Cath and Grissom's conversation in 19 Down pertained Sara, really. it was more of a general observation that many different factors contributed to. he was clearly burning out for 2 years before Warrick and Natalie happened and before Sara broke up with him. i just think he stopped being as excited about the job as he was before. the crossword he threw away symbolized his disinterest, and the fact that he is sick with all the tragedy.
Billy gave an interview 2 years ago to a Japanese TV where he said that Grissom is able to be a CSI b/c he is very connected to his childhood, that he compares the job to playing childhood games, is excited about the puzzle and about implementing his knowledge to make a difference but at the same time have fun doing it. i think the tragedy that landed so close to home (Natalie, then Warrick) took away that child-like attitude or excitement about the job, and brought him closer to reality and to the feelings of those who are affected by crime.
also, another factor i would add is that he has loved for the first time. imo, it could pronounce his sense of compassion for the victims and make it harder for him to work and maybe even remain fully detached.
I think this is right on the money. I had not registered that about the childhood interests but yes I think that analysis is right. Indeed Grissom has been burning out for 2 years.
It is great to see the character happy - for what ever reason. And I am glad that they seem at least to be giving him a happy ending for all his work. GSR or not. Though I do hope so. It would be nice to think of them both on the Sea Shepard enjoying intellectual conversations and him looking at exotic bugs of the Galapagos Islands.
Whatever the reason Grissom seemed at peace with his decision - thinking of the "fly fishing" scene - and I think that it is good to give him a graceful and appriecative exit. Both WP & GG.
“ In the scene where Grissom tells the team he’s leaving, did anyone else notice that it looked as if Grissom was wiping away tears as he left the room or am I imagining it? “
Let me assure you that it was not your imagination. I played back the recording 3 times. Indeed, it look like he was wiping away tears Before he left the room he said “Okay” to the team, there seem to be a crack in his voice.
In this episode Grissom goes undercover as a sociologist professor and joins the class of well know criminal pathologist Dr. Langston. I thought this was rather farfetched. Grissom is a prominent entomologist and criminologist. His works has been widely published in forensic journals. He has been seen on TV and in the newspapers. Even in Season 1, a prisoner had who had read about Grissom’s work had written to him asking for help.
Dr. Langston specializes in Serial killing. Grissom was personally involved in the Miniature Serial killer Case. Surely, Grissom could have easily been recognised if not by Langston but at least by other who was attending the class.
In this episode, we see why it would have seemed difficult for Grissom earlier on to leave everything he had worked for and go with Sara. But now his priorities had changed. Grissom’s work no longer brings him joy and satisfaction. I totally agree with most of you that it s obvious that for Grissom, Sara is the ONE.
Grissom and Sara had known each other over 9 years. Although it was love at first sight for them.
It took him 6 years finally to have a relationship with Sara. Another 2 years to make a marriage proposal to her. At the beginning he was reluctant to have a relationship with Sara; most probably he did not want to cross the line between a boss and a subordinate. But now he finds it unbearable to end the relationship since he has given himself to it.
It was not easy for Grissom to open up to his CSI team and tell them that the only person he ever love is Sara. He was so broken hearted when she first left in Season 8.
But he accepts her with open arms when she returns after Warrick’s death. This time when she left again, he almost had a breakdown.
He was so wounded by her video message. I firmly believe that Grissom asked Sara to leave him was because she wanted to do so many things. And he did not want to hold her back.
I think he never meant to break-up their relationship.
Sara on the other hand had pinned for Grissom for a long time. She has written that Grissom is her one and only. It seemed that she has loved him all her life. In the video she claims that she is happy – she does not look as if she is. There are cracks in the voice. She keeps looking to the left when she tries to convince Grissom that she is ok. I learnt from Season 1, that when someone tried to remember. something and if their eyes are focussing to the left – they are fabricating. I believe the only reason she contact Grissom was because she was missing him and wants to get back with him. She could not make the first move because this time it was Grissom who told her that he needed her to leave him. She was Grissom to ask her back.
It will be “nuts” of Grissom to give up everything he had worked for – only to move to another city and start a new life again as a loner
If he does not leave to be with Sara, as most of us expect – then episode 10 does not hold any anticipation for us viewers.
I believe there is much to this. I think there is a surprise waiting for us viewers. Sara had only appeared twice in person and once in the video. Since then we have not seen and heard from her.
It seems that she left permanently. I believe that there is going to be a shocking surprise in Episode 10. In a video, Warrick has said that if he could pick his own father, he would have picked Grissom. Sara had looked at Grissom sadly. In episode 6 we see a “fatherly” figure in Grissom.
In Season 7, I have always said to my family and friends that a miniature killer was a woman. Since a man would have taken a trophy. In season 1, Grissom himself said this. The killer seems to be a small person with not much strength – needed to drugged the victims first. And I won the bet
Great analysis m1304m I whole heartedly agree with everything you said, that's the way it is, and will be, and the ep.10 will end with them together. Thank's for the great riveting and engrossing comments
In this episode Grissom goes undercover as a sociologist professor and joins the class of well know criminal pathologist Dr. Langston. I thought this was rather farfetched. Grissom is a prominent entomologist and criminologist. His works has been widely published in forensic journals. He has been seen on TV and in the newspapers. Even in Season 1, a prisoner had who had read about Grissom’s work had written to him asking for help.
reading somebody's books and articles doesn't mean you know how they look like. besides, maybe i'm wrong, but i don't recall Grissom introducing himself in class. he could've been put on a roll under a changed name which is why Langston didn't recognize it. Grissom has also a big aversion to talking to media, and if Langston recognized anybody, it was Brass.
i disagree with that. imo, Sara indeed, has been enamored with him probably since they met, but it took Grissom heck of a long time to develop feelings which he still has problems expressing. in Butterflied he refered to her as 'someone we could care about'. i think he always cared, but what he had in mind in that episode was love. to me, he really liked her more han a friend and cared for her, but love came later. on his part at least.
reading somebody's books and articles doesn't mean you know how they look like. besides, maybe i'm wrong, but i don't recall Grissom introducing himself in class. he could've been put on a roll under a changed name which is why Langston didn't recognize it. Grissom has also a big aversion to talking to media, and if Langston recognized anybody, it was Brass.
Possibly but neither is it mentioned how long Langston has been in Vegas since he was a doctor 'back East'. Anyway it was a good plot device to have LF first appearance as the lights went up on the lecture stage. Especially when introducing the new leading man who is already a well know actor.
i disagree with that. imo, Sara indeed, has been enamored with him probably since they met, but it took Grissom heck of a long time to develop feelings which he still has problems expressing. in Butterflied he refered to her as 'someone we could care about'. i think he always cared, but what he had in mind in that episode was love. to me, he really liked her more han a friend and cared for her, but love came later. on his part at least.
Nagh I think from Grissom's comments in A la Carte that he was smitten from the start but thought her too young to be interested in him long term. I would guess the more a student looked up to Grissom the less likely he would be to take advantage. I think the relationship only became viable to him when she was actually looking at him realistically - basically only *after* she became disillusioned with him.
When I was a kids, a mother of a friend of mine said that true love was when you saw all the person's faults but you loved them anyway. I think that is very true.
Great analysis m1304m I whole heartdley agree with everything you said,
Ship Discussions: Can someone tell me why there is ship discussions going on in this thread? I remember this ep, but what I don't remember is there being anything that would pertain to shipping, and no Grissom announcing he is leaving does not qualify as one. Come on folks you know the rules regarding ship discussions in a non shipper forum, "The only time any ship discussion is allowed in here is when it pertains to said ep, ship or scene, should the ep not contain a ship moment then it does not belong in this thread or forum, but rather in the "Shipper Central" forum." I am sorry but honestly even speculation on the conversation between Grissom and Catherine being about a ship moment is a stretch. Even if one could speculate on the conversation as pertaining to a ship, the amount that such discussion has snowballed into is over-reach. Considering as I said that it wasn't actually mentioned.
Kudos: Now I have to admit that I haven't seen this much indepth discussion for an ep in along time, I like seeing it. Going deep in so far as to compare serial killers to the one presented on the show (for the person who asked) I have no problem with that, makes for interesting conversations. Even just indepth review of the episode itself or the intro of Laurence Fishburne as Dr. Raymond Langston makes for a good discussion thread.
I think they just changed some tho to make it okay to show it on TV without the rights to it or whatever, but it's still strange that 19 down was the empty word.
