Why Lindsay Must Stay!

^^I said "aggravated" because that is what I have seen across this board: people getting annoyed and upset with her. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that is how I perceive it. I'm not saying that this debate is wrong. It's a good topic to discuss and to hear all the different opinions. However, I still don't understand why people are getting upset over someone who isn't even real. I honestly do not see the point in that, but whatever. That's only my belief - take that as you will.

dl_shipper34 said:
That's what I don't get about all this - people are getting so aggravated over someone who isn't real. By all means, hate her. However, I can't understand why people get so upset over a fictional character in a fictional show.

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Who's upset? Like you said, it's just a debate about a fictional character on a TV show.

ericisacutie said:
^^^^^^

Canon fact: Lindsay has complained about doing her job several times. In "Manhattan Manhunt," she opined that Mac had sent her away from the crime scene because she was a newbie and did not seem happy about it. In "Oedipus Hex" she got irritated with Danny for assigning her the task of speaking with the grieving mother and said something along the lines of, "Sure, stick Lindsay with the jobs no one else wants."

Canon fact: Lindsay left the crime scene in "Silent Night" without telling Stella or offering an explanation.

Canon fact: When Stella tried to talk to Lindsay about leaving the crime scene, Lindsay yelled at her to, "Leave me alone!"

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Well, she did make up for those.
In OH she did complain to Danny, but at the end she knew that that was her job, so she did speak with the mother.

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This one I found to be too little, too late. She stood by and watched while he got slapped by the mother and then acted like she was being so brave ("it's the job"--like she's some sort of martyr or something ) when she did finally step in.

And in Silent Night, she shouldn't have left the crime scene like that like many people have stated, but she did apoligize to Stella at the end and she told her her problem more or less, so she's trying .

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I do give her credit for that, and even cut her some slack on the personal issues. The way she handled it was so immature though; "leave me alone!" is something a teenager yells at a parent, not something an adult says to her boss. And just taking off from work? I get that she was emotional, but if she'd just gone up to Stella and explained she was having a personal issue and needed to leave (and wasn't ready to talk about it), I would have had a lot more respect for her.

catey1234 said:
As for some of her behaviour, yes, it has been less than sterling on occasion, but she's a supporting character on a tv show. Not every character is made to be a loveable, likeable character.

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Very true, and definitely a fair point. Much as I think the show would be better off without her, I have to say, she's a realistic character in that regard. For the most part, the CSI characters are pretty likable. I will say that Ryan Wolfe on CSI: Miami is a much more "sympathetic-but-at-times-infuriating" character--in part because Ryan is more complex and in part because Jon Togo is a far, far better actor than Anna Belknap--but Lindsay does provide an interesting counterpoint at times to her compassionate and dedicated colleagues.

"Hey guys", "please" don't get mad at each other. We're all friends here! It's okay if you don't like her, and us Lindsay fans, let's just keep lovin her. But one thing that we all do have in common, is we all LOVE csi ny or we wouldn't be posting here at all, so let's just keep the cool!

And lets continue having fun saying whatever we want to say!

(Note: Those who don't want to hear bad things about Lindsay, just skip over those specific posts.)
(I do that sometimes) :lol:

Okay, a lot actually! :lol:

Just please don't get mad at each other, that's not what I was attending with this thread.

Sorry for editing, I wasn't paying attention!

Top41, you're right about her acting that way in Silent Night.

^^^Don't worry, we aren't angry. This is after all, just a healthy debate on the why or why not a character should stay on the show. Some love her, some hate her, some are indifferent. Either way, this is just everyone's opinions, for better or worse.

We are debating (not arguing) over her. Like any book-worm would over a character from a book, or how you do in school, when you comapre writers techniques and critique authors. When we think about the great stars of the past an discuss which pieces of work we liked best. This is a debate.

We're talking detials here, reasons why we like the character or not (charateriztion, actions, ways she has or has not developed. We are fully aware she isn't real and that's why we can engage in healthy debates and discussions over her character. No one's 'aggravated'.

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I hate quoting myself.

No one's getting mad at each other . We are all friends having a, rather lively right now, debate over a shared interest. Nothing more.

I also agree Top, I've only recently gotten to see Silent Night, though . I suck :lol:

I find debates like these a lot more fun than 'OMGZZZZ!!!!111!!11 SOO HOTTT' being posted vicariously in every thread around the boards.

Anyway.

I suppose me saying 'Lindsay must stay because Anna's still in the contract' would be a stupid answer...

I don't mind Lindsay. She isn't my favorite character but I don't have a problem with her. It's actually kind of hard to explain what I want to say because everyone's made so many valid points on both sides.

Top41 said
Canon fact: LIndsay tends to focus on herself whether it be at the expense of someone else ("Oedipus Hex"), against her supervisor's advice ("Stealing Home"), or during a case ("Silent Night," "Oedipus Hex," "Stealing Home," "Manhattan Manhunt," etc.).

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Canon fact: Lindsay left the crime scene in "Silent Night" without telling Stella or offering an explanation.

Canon fact: When Stella tried to talk to Lindsay about leaving the crime scene, Lindsay yelled at her to, "Leave me alone!"

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See, I think this actually makes her a more three dimensional character in some - some being the operative word - respects. I know real life people who react this way in the work place (whiney, arrogant, too eager to please, constantly makes bad decisions, childish, etc). It's a reality that people like this exist so I'm glad up to a point that she's like that. :lol: However I also see her as competitive, confident, motivated, smart, etc.

She causes the fans to react, whether they're good or bad reactions. So in that way, the writers have done well to add Lindsay into the show. A huge problem though being, like was stated above, her development's been poor and because of that, she's remained rather stagnant and increasingly frustrating. She needs something less 'mary sue' to deal with methinks.

Sometimes though, I wonder if she's this way because the writers intended it or because it's just the way Anna portrays it. I mean, there is a way to say 'leave me alone' without making the character sound like a petty teenager.

^^^Don't worry, we aren't angry. This is after all, just a healthy debate on the why or why not a character should stay on the show. Some love her, some hate her, some are indifferent. Either way, this is just everyone's opinions, for better or worse.

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Exactly! No matter what we all think about Lindsay, I think it's safe to say that nobody here is angry with each other and I for one am not mad at anybody.

ericisacutie said:
"Hey guys", "please" don't get mad at each other. We're all friends here! It's okay if you don't like her, and us Lindsay fans, let's just keep lovin her. But one thing that we all do have in common, is we all LOVE csi ny or we wouldn't be posting here at all, so let's just keep the cool!

And lets continue having fun saying whatever we want to say!

(Note: Those who don't want to hear bad things about Lindsay, just skip over those specific posts.)
(I do that sometimes) :lol:

Okay, a lot actually! :lol:

Just please don't get mad at each other, that's not what I was attending with this thread.

Sorry for editing, I wasn't paying attention!

Top41, you're right about her acting that way in Silent Night.

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I don't think anyone here was getting mad at each other, some people a little more defensive than others, but no real anger.

From your post it's not really sure what you were intending for this thread. Was it supposed to be all happy "Yay, Lindsay" because the Lindsay thread does that just fine. You had to know that this thread was going to create discussion with opinions differing from yours, so to say that you "skip" all the posts that don't follow your views is going backwards on what you said at the beginning of the thread. It's also kinda rude to let say to everyone who does not share your opinion is invalid and not worthy of your time.

snowbird said:

ericisacutie said:
"Hey guys", "please" don't get mad at each other. We're all friends here! It's okay if you don't like her, and us Lindsay fans, let's just keep lovin her. But one thing that we all do have in common, is we all LOVE csi ny or we wouldn't be posting here at all, so let's just keep the cool!

And lets continue having fun saying whatever we want to say!

(Note: Those who don't want to hear bad things about Lindsay, just skip over those specific posts.)
(I do that sometimes) :lol:

Okay, a lot actually! :lol:

Just please don't get mad at each other, that's not what I was attending with this thread.

Sorry for editing, I wasn't paying attention!

Top41, you're right about her acting that way in Silent Night.

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone here was getting mad at each other, some people a little more defensive than others, but no real anger.

From your post it's not really sure what you were intending for this thread. Was it supposed to be all happy "Yay, Lindsay" because the Lindsay thread does that just fine. You had to know that this thread was going to create discussion with opinions differing from yours, so to say that you "skip" all the posts that don't follow your views is going backwards on what you said at the beginning of the thread. It's also kinda rude to let say to everyone who does not share your opinion is invalid and not worthy of your time.

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^^^Okay now that's not what I meant.... I was for the most part joking when I said that.... But if you believe I am rude, that's your opinion...... As we're all stating, that's your right while posting.

First off, I have to say that I <3 your posts Faylinn. Great reading...

Back on topic, when Lindsay was first introduced, I questioned the need for her. Hawkes was going to be out in the field and there was no need for her. When she first appeared in Zoo York, I thought she was pretty all right. I didn’t even mind her. I thought some of her quips were funny. I’m not going to say that she was sunbeams and rainbows, but she wasn’t annoying to me-- yet.

It was when the writers stopped writing a character that I had no qualms with that I began to dislike her. My problem with Lindsay is that when introduced, she was an empowered, positive female character. She knew her job and how to do it effectively. If I'm not mistaken, that's why Mac hired her. She was someone that I could root for.

It was when she became this whiney, sniveling crybaby that she lost credibility with me. Being a member of the workforce, I can't stand women who cry over having to perform their job duties. I can’t relate to a person who goes to college to work in a field, only to cry about it later. I understand that not all females on these shows have to be tough chicks, but give me a break. Her competence was replaced with rushed writing and inconsistent acting. If I were to extend a pass for her, it would be that the actress herself didn’t know where the writers were going with her character either.

I’ll amend the title of this thread to “Why Lindsay Must Stay(?)” with a question mark. If she must stay, the writers should agree on what her personality is. Personally, I haven’t been impressed with her more dramatic scenes and if they can develop her, without any drama, I want to witness it. I want to see her laughing and smiling all the time. I want to see her being happy and light. I want to see her be the CSI that she was when she arrived, in her first episode. I’m open to that much. I’d suspend my eye-rolling and exaggerated sighs when she comes on the screen.

And I explained that without mentioning Danny once…

speed_cochrane said:
See, I think this actually makes her a more three dimensional character in some - some being the operative word - respects. I know real life people who react this way in the work place (whiney, arrogant, too eager to please, constantly makes bad decisions, childish, etc). It's a reality that people like this exist so I'm glad up to a point that she's like that. :lol: However I also see her as competitive, confident, motivated, smart, etc.

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I certainly agree with that! :lol: I've worked with people like that on more than one occasion. People are always a mixed bag of good and bad traits, so Lindsay is realistic from that point of view.

But, as you also ask, are we meant to see her this way or is it unintentional? I think that has puzzled many people; it certainly has me. Lindsay snapping at Stella in "Silent Night" is an excellent example. How could that have been played or interpreted in a way that didn't make Lindsay look pretty darned unprofessional and whiny? They could have chosen some other response for Lindsay to make, but instead they had her yell "Leave me alone!" in response to a perfectly reasonable and kindly enquiry from her superior. Are we meant to think she's a brat?

I suspect that it is partly due to the writers' indecision about the character and partly due to Anna's shaky grasp on her. Anna doesn't seem confident in her portrayal and her performance vacillates between not too bad to fairly awful. Something just hasn't clicked there.

Mac is a character who isn't always likable, but is consistent and (usually) realistic. He's often pompous and inflexible. He has a lot of trouble dealing with people on an emotional level. But he is loyal, determined and, sometimes, surprisingly compassionate. His actions and dialogue almost always make sense in the context of his character. Lindsay usually lacks that context. It's what makes her so frustrating.

I have to say I hope Lindsey doesn't leave. She's a good character. obviously there's some things i don't like about her *coughleavingdannylikethatcough* (but hey that opens him up for either Mac or Don eh? *wink*) but she's one of the few female characters i actually like (unlike...say...Payton and Sarah from Vegas) and wouldn't mind seeing her with one of the male leads. Her and Danny had really cute chemistry together!

Mac is one of my favorite characters. its BECAUSE he's so pompous and inflexible that i just cant help but adore him! and because of those aforementioned attributes, when he's compassionate, it makes it all the better (see the episode Louie royally gets is ass beat and Danny starts to cry!) Lindsey seems to just fail about a bit, but then she'll pull this amazing trick out of NOWHERE and I'm just like "See? this is why i love the woman!"
that and her Down home naive due to coming from Montana...now I'm Canadian, so i don't quiet understand if people from Montana and states of that kind are actually LIKE that, but it makes me giggle and want to just pet her.

(After typing this, having my internet go out, having the site go down for maintenance when the internet came back up and finally getting access again--this post was hardly worth the trouble I went through to make it. :lol

penguinpie said:
People are always a mixed bag of good and bad traits, so Lindsay is realistic from that point of view...But, as you also ask, are we meant to see her this way or is it unintentional?

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The thing about Lindsay being intentionally 'realistic' in such a way is that it's a fine line to walk where a character is written on purpose to be sort of...I don't know if I mean unlikeable, but something like that. Anyway, it's a fine line, and someone like Hodges on Vegas walks it well--he's more than a bit of a twit, but he's a lovable twit in his own way, and he's a better (more rounded) character for being the way he is. (As mentioned by Top41, I believe,) Ryan on Miami can be a bit of a twit sometimes as well. Characters like Ecklie, Stetler, and even Gerrard and Sinclair on NY to a lesser extent (since they've been there less) are meant to be realistic in a way that isn't always likable.

Even though those characters are written that way, it doesn't bother me. Even though I'm not exactly fond of them, I look forward to seeing Gerrard or Sinclair show up because I know we'll get some good stuff, especially from Mac and Flack--and that's the thing. How can a character be a realistically-annoying (or some other adjective which is more accurate) person and not have the people around them react to it? For the most part, the other characters act like Lindsay is the bestest thing since sliced bread--and it just rings false. If she's that person at work, how do none of her colleagues seem to respond the way you'd expect them to? They all just give her a vapid 'who's a good girl?' smile and go on about their business. Realistic character interactions should go hand-in-hand with realistic characters.

Faylinn said:
Even though those characters are written that way, it doesn't bother me. Even though I'm not exactly fond of them, I look forward to seeing Gerrard or Sinclair show up because I know we'll get some good stuff, especially from Mac and Flack--and that's the thing. How can a character be a realistically-annoying (or some other adjective which is more accurate) person and not have the people around them react to it? For the most part, the other characters act like Lindsay is the bestest thing since sliced bread--and it just rings false. If she's that person at work, how do none of her colleagues seem to respond the way you'd expect them to? They all just give her a vapid 'who's a good girl?' smile and go on about their business. Realistic character interactions should go hand-in-hand with realistic characters.

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Excellent point and most likely what's missing. The other characters' lack of reaction suggests that when she's "whiny", she's meant to be "wounded and vulnerable". It just doesn't come across that way to many of us. :shrug:

The shortcuts they've taken with her character have also been disconcerting. Danny's sudden infatuation was never really explained, for example. (I know we were meant to keep Danny out of it, but it directly addresses the point.) They went from a bit of light flirting, mostly on Lindsay's side in season 2, to Danny suddenly following her around like a puppy in season 3. Mac and Stella don't have a romantic relationship, but the dynamics that drive it have been well established. They kind of missed that step here.

The big, dark secret falls into the same category. Firstly, they didn't seem to know what it would be until the last minute when it no longer made sense. The idea that she was deeply traumatised by witnessing the bloody deaths of her friends, doesn't gell at all with the events of "Manhattan Manhunt". She was not overly concerned with a crime scene that would have surely resembled the one that so troubles her, and she vehemently protested being sent away by Mac. For a closer example, the events of "Silent Night" and "Oedipus Hex" were supposed to tie in somewhere, but it was never explained what her problem with mothers has to do with those events. The fault for this largely lies at the writers' doors, I'm afraid.

Not that continuity is CSI: NY's friend or anything.

They went from a bit of light flirting, mostly on Lindsay's side in season 2, to Danny suddenly following her around like a puppy in season 3.

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its funny like 2 people can see the same thing in a completly different light.

for me it was always Danny who was more into it from the start. she seemed to tolarate him at the beggining and then accept him and the attraction

I think it may be the reason for such different views - what one see as whiney other sees as disturbed. what one see as snotty other percepts as enthusiasm.

I think the problem is not so much Lindsay (or Annas acting) but the way pople interpret her actions. I have never before seen such a wide range of explanations or reaction to a single line or look. I would almost call it funny