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Hello, finally someone from the "other" side of the atlantic!! I am from austria and iam really eager to read that article to!!!
Grissom&Sara#21 - Cuz Dating Secretly is SO Much Cooler
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Adzix
CSI Level Three
i've seen Snakes recently and i had a certain impression after watching our famous scene. this episode is pretty early in the Season (5x12), directly before ND but still long before Committed (i'm bad in chronology so i had to say it partly for myslef to remember 
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After Sara is making her confession, we see Grissom wanting to say something. this is the transcript so it will be more clear for everybody. besides, who doesn't love to read transcripts?? :
S: Hi. You got a minute?
G: Sure.
S: We really haven't had a chance to talk since the staff changes. I, uh ... I wanted to let you know that I said some things to Ecklie that might have done the team a disservice.
G: Ecklie wanted to break up the team and he did.
S: He asked me if you and I had had our post-PEAP counseling session.
G: And we didn't. Regardless, you should never have to cover for your boss. I'm sorry.
S: You've always been a little more than a boss to me. Why do you think I moved to Vegas? Look, I know our relationship has been complicated. It's probably my fault. It's probably definitely my fault.
G: You, uh, completed your counseling, right?
S: Yeah. Yes.
G: And ... ?
S: Let's just say that ... I sometimes ... I look for validation in inappropriate places.
G: Look ... let's, um ...
S: It's okay. Okay. You know what, we did our session. Don't forget to document this for Ecklie.
G: Right.
S: Thanks.
the moment that i found particularly interesting (other than Sara's confession) is when Grissom says Look ... let's, um .... what did he want to say then? "let's have dinner", "let's give it a try", "let's talk about it more"? IMO, this was the first time, that we see some kind of approval for "them" from him. before the only time we heard him talking openly about any kind of relationship with sara was in PWF and we only heard him saying "no" to her invitation. and this time it was really different. it wasn't a "no, are you insane?" but a kind of unspoken invitation from HIM. a definitely different situation. what was the factor that changed him mind so much? i think mostly Butterflied, but still i would very much add this episode to our GSR-Canon timeline. yeah, i know, nothing happened then yet, but Grissom was clearly thinking in a different way than in PWF. he was already changing his mind and was almost ready to ask her out. he almost did though. it's a VERY important GSR episode which shows how Grissom's mind was changing and that i really doubt their first hook up was an IE kinda accident, but something both of them thought about for long.
very weird thing happened in Unbearable, which was after ND. i still can't figure it out. boy, it's hard to figure out Grissom. anybody has ANY ideas of how to interpret it??
)After Sara is making her confession, we see Grissom wanting to say something. this is the transcript so it will be more clear for everybody. besides, who doesn't love to read transcripts??
:S: Hi. You got a minute?
G: Sure.
S: We really haven't had a chance to talk since the staff changes. I, uh ... I wanted to let you know that I said some things to Ecklie that might have done the team a disservice.
G: Ecklie wanted to break up the team and he did.
S: He asked me if you and I had had our post-PEAP counseling session.
G: And we didn't. Regardless, you should never have to cover for your boss. I'm sorry.
S: You've always been a little more than a boss to me. Why do you think I moved to Vegas? Look, I know our relationship has been complicated. It's probably my fault. It's probably definitely my fault.
G: You, uh, completed your counseling, right?
S: Yeah. Yes.
G: And ... ?
S: Let's just say that ... I sometimes ... I look for validation in inappropriate places.
G: Look ... let's, um ...
S: It's okay. Okay. You know what, we did our session. Don't forget to document this for Ecklie.
G: Right.
S: Thanks.
the moment that i found particularly interesting (other than Sara's confession) is when Grissom says Look ... let's, um .... what did he want to say then? "let's have dinner", "let's give it a try", "let's talk about it more"? IMO, this was the first time, that we see some kind of approval for "them" from him. before the only time we heard him talking openly about any kind of relationship with sara was in PWF and we only heard him saying "no" to her invitation. and this time it was really different. it wasn't a "no, are you insane?" but a kind of unspoken invitation from HIM. a definitely different situation. what was the factor that changed him mind so much? i think mostly Butterflied, but still i would very much add this episode to our GSR-Canon timeline. yeah, i know, nothing happened then yet, but Grissom was clearly thinking in a different way than in PWF. he was already changing his mind and was almost ready to ask her out. he almost did though. it's a VERY important GSR episode which shows how Grissom's mind was changing and that i really doubt their first hook up was an IE kinda accident, but something both of them thought about for long.
very weird thing happened in Unbearable, which was after ND. i still can't figure it out. boy, it's hard to figure out Grissom. anybody has ANY ideas of how to interpret it??
Correct, but I think at the time of the conference they were actually holding the funeral service. Or that he just wanted to be with family.
Either way - has anyone seen/heard about the new promotional poster for CSI that's apparently on a billboard somewhere in downtown LA?
It's the CSIs crossing the road, possibly like in Abby Road, and Grissom and Sara are the only ones wearing color - the rest of the team is in black. Significant? Yes. All that important? No. lol. But it does remind me of when Sara and Grissom were the only ones with hints of red in the last cover shots.
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Guest
Guest
Hi my friend, its always nice talking to you because your thoughts encourage me to keep writing!
I think that grissom wanted to say; Lets talk about some things, I know our relationship has always been complicated but i dont want you to get a wrong impression of me. I am sorry for turning you down when you ask me if we could go out. I didnt mean to be so cruel. Its just so....difficult for me to say whats on my mind...I never know what to say in front of you. You make me nervous and...Please lets talk .we really need to talk to make things right.
Sara is speechless and just nodds her head, wondering whats happening next....
I believe that grissi is a very troubled character and deals with a lot of inner demons. I think the time he spends in her presents the more she wins him over..completely.. He cant restist her but he is struggling with himself to still be in control cause he is horrified by the thought of loosing control and thats what sara does to him making him loose control.But in my opinion he hasnt got the sligthest chance because he loves her and love always finds a way.
I think that grissom wanted to say; Lets talk about some things, I know our relationship has always been complicated but i dont want you to get a wrong impression of me. I am sorry for turning you down when you ask me if we could go out. I didnt mean to be so cruel. Its just so....difficult for me to say whats on my mind...I never know what to say in front of you. You make me nervous and...Please lets talk .we really need to talk to make things right.
Sara is speechless and just nodds her head, wondering whats happening next....
I believe that grissi is a very troubled character and deals with a lot of inner demons. I think the time he spends in her presents the more she wins him over..completely.. He cant restist her but he is struggling with himself to still be in control cause he is horrified by the thought of loosing control and thats what sara does to him making him loose control.But in my opinion he hasnt got the sligthest chance because he loves her and love always finds a way.
Adzix, I watched 'Snakes' just yesterday.
I was surprised that it made such a bigger impression on me than it did the first time. For some reason the 'look, let's um..., kept me hanging much more. It felt very intriguing. I was sure that he was gonna make a step towards asking her out, but I guess Sara saw that he was strugling...Maybe she wasn't sure wether what she said was to him was right, and she didn't want to force anything upon him. So she interrupted him by saying everything is fine.
I was surprised that it made such a bigger impression on me than it did the first time. For some reason the 'look, let's um..., kept me hanging much more. It felt very intriguing. I was sure that he was gonna make a step towards asking her out, but I guess Sara saw that he was strugling...Maybe she wasn't sure wether what she said was to him was right, and she didn't want to force anything upon him. So she interrupted him by saying everything is fine.
Well, I think it's because at the time Snakes aired, a lot of fans didn't have much hope for it. Sara's speech almost seemed to be coming out as, "I was in love with you, and now I'm moving on". And we watch the words slowly make it to Grissom's brain. lol.
Now, we can see it as Grissom starting to panic and go, "Oh my God. It's finally happened. She's moved on."
ETA
The next episode is Nesting Dolls. I don't think Grissom would've fought for her or gone to her house if she hadn't made that speech in Snakes only because, in a strange way, he's trying to get her back. Trying to be with her. I think her confession scares him. Maybe he thought he'd find out that her mother had been beaten or that someone she knew had been raped, but the concept that it was her Mother who'd done the stabbing, that perhaps Sara is even afraid of the fact that she has that possibility inside of her, made him realize that her issues went a lot deeper than a simple cliche.
So I think he retreats in UnBearable to give her time, to say, "You've moved on, so I guess I should too". And of course the second she sees him with another woman, it becomes clear that she never moved on, that she was perhaps insinuating it just to make him feel more comfortable, and by Committed we see the same is true of him.
Now, we can see it as Grissom starting to panic and go, "Oh my God. It's finally happened. She's moved on."
ETA
The next episode is Nesting Dolls. I don't think Grissom would've fought for her or gone to her house if she hadn't made that speech in Snakes only because, in a strange way, he's trying to get her back. Trying to be with her. I think her confession scares him. Maybe he thought he'd find out that her mother had been beaten or that someone she knew had been raped, but the concept that it was her Mother who'd done the stabbing, that perhaps Sara is even afraid of the fact that she has that possibility inside of her, made him realize that her issues went a lot deeper than a simple cliche.
So I think he retreats in UnBearable to give her time, to say, "You've moved on, so I guess I should too". And of course the second she sees him with another woman, it becomes clear that she never moved on, that she was perhaps insinuating it just to make him feel more comfortable, and by Committed we see the same is true of him.
angeldreams
Witness
ARGH. I have to be a member to ask a Q. *Pouts big time*
Adzix
CSI Level Three
yup, i think your interpretation puts GSR in a different light, and surely it would look like it back then for the fans. but having this new perspective of Canon GSR i can't really fit it in, and find Fabian's view valid all the time.
but if we assume, like you said sarah, that Sara wanted to show him she's giving up on him ... well, maybe she really wasn't. maybe it wasn't her intention for Grissom to understand she was moving on.
he wanted to show her that he's still her friend (ND). in Unbearable he flirts with Sofia to, like you said, show her he also moves on. but the look on sara's face after she catches them tells Grissom that maybe it's not what she tried to tell him.
but if we assume, like you said sarah, that Sara wanted to show him she's giving up on him ... well, maybe she really wasn't. maybe it wasn't her intention for Grissom to understand she was moving on.
he wanted to show her that he's still her friend (ND). in Unbearable he flirts with Sofia to, like you said, show her he also moves on. but the look on sara's face after she catches them tells Grissom that maybe it's not what she tried to tell him.
angeldreams
Witness
Re: Grissom&Sara#21 - Cuz Dating Secretly is SO Much Coo
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
Britfan the link would be TV Guide, and right above it has the link to it- schroll up and you'll find it- I hope one of our questions makes it in- I wonder if this Ausiello watches CSI at all?
Re: Grissom&Sara#21 - Cuz Dating Secretly is SO Much Coo
Sarahvma I totally agree with your thoughts on Snakes. However Grissom probably would've at least tried to have spoken with her (in ND) whether or not he'd spoken to her in Snakes. I think this because I don't think he'd want her to leave under any circumstances because I think he'd miss her too much. But he heard what she said in Snakes so it probably made it more important for him to go to her.
Does anyone know whether Grissom ever knew of Sara's reaction when she saw him 'the other woman' in Unbearable? She was so not over him and I wouldn't really expect her to be.
Sarahvma I totally agree with your thoughts on Snakes. However Grissom probably would've at least tried to have spoken with her (in ND) whether or not he'd spoken to her in Snakes. I think this because I don't think he'd want her to leave under any circumstances because I think he'd miss her too much. But he heard what she said in Snakes so it probably made it more important for him to go to her.
Does anyone know whether Grissom ever knew of Sara's reaction when she saw him 'the other woman' in Unbearable? She was so not over him and I wouldn't really expect her to be.
Re: Grissom&Sara#21 - Cuz Dating Secretly is SO Much Coo
I think it may have even been Sara lying to herself, saying she was over him. But it's very easy to be "over" someone when that option is still there. When they're not necessarily with someone else.
The second she saw that he had moved on, whether it was true or not, she realized that she just hadn't yet.
I think it may have even been Sara lying to herself, saying she was over him. But it's very easy to be "over" someone when that option is still there. When they're not necessarily with someone else.
The second she saw that he had moved on, whether it was true or not, she realized that she just hadn't yet.
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Guest
Guest
I think that sar cut the converation because she was afraid of what gris could have told her. MAybe his ..uhmm look lets.. made her think: oh god he will tell me that he is sorry about it but he is not interested in her and doesnt want a date or arelationship with her, so before getting hurt she would rather pretend that everything is fine. I guess she didnt want to hear grissom turning her down again. But gris on the other side probably wanted to really make things up to her and ask her out. We dont know, and thats exactely where the writers want us to be. So we are aking us over and over again What the hell was he trying to say???? But when you think it over, its perfect, they keep us hanging on! We get emotional about the fact that this could have been THE moment they show their feelings for eachother but AGAIN noone has the guts and both sara and gris, for the fear of getting hurt, pretend that everything is okay the way it isbut we all know that it isnt.
Adzix
CSI Level Three
i just read what i wrote in my last post and realized it was kinda impossible to understand. i think i partied too long the night before. geez, and those 5 guys all over me in the club *diva sigh* yup, i was definitely a little, let's say ... dizzy. yup, that's it. so let me explain it again.
i think the conversation went that way that:
1. Sara confessed, encouraged him to make a move, but didn't want to push him too much (that's why she stopped him and said "it's okey, okey")
2. Grissom on the other hand, looking through the prism of Unbearable, assumed she's moving on (he thought she didn't want him to ask her anything. and did you notice his even more sheepish look after she stopped him?was he thinking "i'm too late"?)
3. It wasn't Sara's intention it to look like she's moving on. And i think she haven't figured out, that he interpreted her speech that way.
4. In ND she gave him ONE MORE clue that could've been understood by him in a different way she wanted (her choices of emotionally unavailable men and pointing on him). he again assumed she moved on, but still wanted to be her friend. that's why his reaction was to only hold her hand.
5. Unbearable, he's openly flirting with Sofia, moving on himself. Sara is really confused and ... yeah, jealous.
gsrhe, my dear fellow European! your thoery here is pretty possible as well, but i think Sara just didn't want to push him too much. most of the sentences starting with "Let's" end up on "together" or "with me" i guess :lol: i'm pretty sure he wanted to ask her out or just talk.
i think the conversation went that way that:
1. Sara confessed, encouraged him to make a move, but didn't want to push him too much (that's why she stopped him and said "it's okey, okey")
2. Grissom on the other hand, looking through the prism of Unbearable, assumed she's moving on (he thought she didn't want him to ask her anything. and did you notice his even more sheepish look after she stopped him?was he thinking "i'm too late"?)
3. It wasn't Sara's intention it to look like she's moving on. And i think she haven't figured out, that he interpreted her speech that way.
4. In ND she gave him ONE MORE clue that could've been understood by him in a different way she wanted (her choices of emotionally unavailable men and pointing on him). he again assumed she moved on, but still wanted to be her friend. that's why his reaction was to only hold her hand.
5. Unbearable, he's openly flirting with Sofia, moving on himself. Sara is really confused and ... yeah, jealous.
gsrhe, my dear fellow European! your thoery here is pretty possible as well, but i think Sara just didn't want to push him too much. most of the sentences starting with "Let's" end up on "together" or "with me" i guess :lol: i'm pretty sure he wanted to ask her out or just talk.
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