Stella/Melina #7 'Cause everything sounds better in Greek

Choose New Stellarina Thread!

  • Stella/Melina #7: 'Cause even Athene and Aphrodite worship her.

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • Stella/Melina #7: The perfect combination of brains, looks, and personality.

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • Stella/Melina #7: a goddess came down to earth !

    Votes: 8 24.2%
  • Stella/Melina #7:Athene in her mortal form.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stella/Melina #7: Zeus' gift to Hollywood.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stella/Melina#7 'Cause she is the angel that enlighten our hearts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stella/Melina #7 'Cause everything sounds better in Greek

    Votes: 11 33.3%
  • Stella/Melina #7: Because she´s the Greek Goddess of Crimonology

    Votes: 1 3.0%
  • Stella/Melina #7Because she´s the heart and soul of the CSI-team

    Votes: 2 6.1%
  • Stella/Melina#7 Because Lady Liberty speaks in Greek!

    Votes: 6 18.2%
  • Stella/Melina#7 Because she is the light and soul of NY Lab

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stella/kelina#7 Because we all love Rambo Stella

    Votes: 1 3.0%

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .
Altough maybe I'm misreading it but it just seems like this forum has become less civil since the news of Kanakaredes leaving the show. It is absolutely sad and very upsetting like few fictional character departures ever have been.
I'm afraid the news has indeed caused bitterness and I guess partly the news of her leaving, but also the way it has been handled. The timing of Melinas departure seems like she was forced and had no choice as far as contract issues. According to her interview (as I can understand but I could be wrong) she stated there was something in her contract that
was not acceptable to her. As far as money, they seem to have it where they want to give it and I think they are taking advantage of the recession as they did with the writers strike. At my place of business we were asked too for go our annual cost of living raise as we were told funds were tight, ok I'll buy that, but we just learned another department have all just recieved new laptops:confused: Um hence my raise:rolleyes::lol:. The fact they spent money on all of the guest stars and the controversy about Sheen (who all will be happy to know may just get off of his jail time hmm maybe they can write that in his script) suggests that money was there. Although they offered Melina her current pay which is NOT a raise and the fact that this is the second time she has been asked to accept no pay raise could make anyone feel slighted considering the circumstances. And then the way they "replaced" her the next day was just a slap in the face to her and her fans. It is hard to figure why no exit episode if Melina was just getting burnt out and not happy. I just dont believe she would be inconsiderate to her fans like that. I have seen her on talk shows and have seen the way she responds to fans so nope, I for one think being the class act that she is, something was asked of her that was not acceptable and they called her bluff and she walked. And as for the bitterness we feel here we have to be her voice because CBS wont say any more, they just want everyone to forget it and they have moved on and wish we would do the same but I guess we just are not ready to bury and old friend yet. We should count for something, after all we were part of keeping the viewership afloat and helping them bring in a pay check. And as far as New Orleans they say the oil devastation is coming under control so she can come back to NY now:)
 
I agree, it´s getting diffucult to create inspiring storylines when you´ve been involved with the same show and its characters for so long.
Yep, and MK very obviously thought the same ;).
I guess, they tried to bring in something what they thought was fresh and renewing to the show, that´s why they changed the direction of the characters; but unfortunately it lead rather to a dead end.

Problem with that was that they changed the characters in a not-credible way.
I don't mind changing the direction as long as it makes sense. However, they had already established so much of a their characters by the time they changed the direction that they went against the character profiles they created.
It's like when in a book you don't introduce a character properly and suddenly the character you thought had blue eyes and blond hair ends up being the exact opposite.
They hadn't set up what they were doing and didn't respect their characters, rather, as we've said before, used them as puppets.

I have no idea if any of the producers who so much love to write have learnt this as a profession or were just eager to have their creative input in the show. Anthony Zuiker might be a prof and Peter Lenkov, but both now don´t write anymore for NY.

I know.
I still wonder if Lenkov's departure also might have had to do with the "odd choices" MK was faced with.

Well, too many cooks spoil the meal, so maybe less would be more and they should sort the work strictly into writing and producing separately.

I couldn't agree more.

It showed very much in S6 that apparently many wanted to have their say: a lot of storylines were started but never finished, it was like a big chaos. Hayden came, Hayden left; Aubrey came, Aubrey (probably) left, Peyton returned, but might vanish again, Sheldon´s love interest never happened as well as his arc, etc..

Haylen I still wonder why they brought her in. I think she was supposed to be a counter-part to Adam. Many were upset because they had said Angell was written out b/c of paycuts, so why bring in a new character if she had to go (though already back then there were rumors that it wasn't the paycuts...)
In any case, Haylen was sort of silly and they could have just brought Kendall back.
Aubrey came for the love triangle, as did Peyton yet we never got the cliffhanger of who Mac would have to chose... I don't mind the least but the problem with that was, that PV got overly excited with her Twilight reference and the fans weren't. No surprise there, I mean, if you had paid attention to the general reaction before you would have known that it wouldn't be popular, thus the spoilers were huge, the episodes were weak and it all sort of faded into nothing.
There was really no arch for anyone... there wasn't even really an arch for Mac, there was that serial killer from the first half of the season but the second didn't have an arch at all (I don't consider the triangle one because of how it was done). I don't think they necessarily need archs like the Greek coin affair or whatever but they need something that shows where the characters are going in that season. It can happen in individuel episodes without any multi-episode arch but none of it was there. And the serial killer didn't develop Mac's character either, or any other character for that matter.

GS came to NY with a sort of Hollywood-career, so maybe that made the difference of his payment.
Agree, especially since all actors had accepted a pay cut before, why should MK do so again, they should have instead offered her a payment increase to honor her work.

It's strange... it seems like they only chose her, so I wonder why not any of the others. I mean, I adore him, he's eye-candy but it would be easier to get "rid" of Flack/Cahill altogether and bring in different detectives. Would be more credible anyway, the CSI's wouldn't naturally work with the same detective each and every time. And they could have written him out by making him want a fresh start somewhere else because of Angell. In any case, it's strange that it seems to have been only MK... Or the others accepted cuts without complaint though I would want to think they didn't.

Exactly, it´s like Sheen is getting rewarded by CBS for being a bad boy, more so since I heard that he wanted to leave the show, so they offered him 1,5 Mio $ per show, and of course, he accepted.

There are probably very few who wouldn't have accepted.

They should have fired him instead, but money and ratings are more important than morale.

Just said to a friend: the word is greed. Greed is ruling the world and it's ruling the show business as wel.

I think all CSIs had pay cuts, CBS justified this with the economic crisis, well, looks like they needed the money for their "really" expensive productions.
Money rules, it´s just like that.

That was what Helgenberger said that they all had a cut last season because of the economy. I doubt the executives got cuts :p
Strangest thing that they wanted to cut Helgenberger's pay as well after this season though I guess her contract was up for negotiation anyway since she wasn't sure whether she would be back for another season or not.

Yes, I guess she will be busy a lot even without NY. The offers obviously arrived instantly after she left, as if some producers or directors were eager to get her for quite a while and just waited until she eventually was "free" again.

That's how it sounded like in the interview. She said she's gotten several scripts sent and since it had been only three weeks... they must have arrived rather quickly. Good for her. She deserves it.

Totally agree, as a team I always found the NY the most homogenic and fitting, but when it got to the indivual person and their personal lives, it got tricky very often, because there were and are hardly any surprises, they are often predictable in their thinking and acting. That doesn´t exclude Stella, because she had very often the same stereotyped stories, but MK probably approached her character in a different way and maybe it´s also because Stella´s background was always appealing to me: the orphan who fought her way through all difficulties.

I agree - with everything ;)
I think MK might have had the most to "play with" anyway. With the background story they gave Stella... and they established her background right from the start. With Mac it was different, he got fed bits and pieces. Or we did and I would think GS did as well since some things never came up before.
But MK knew right from the start that there were a couple of things and she wanted Stella to go somewhere, as she said. She wanted her to be an inspirational heroine. She had the chance to go somewhere, Mac sort of seemed a finished character while Stella was still growing. She sort of was striving of challenges... I don't feel like Mac was ever really put up with a real challenge other than his wife's death which broke him - naturally - and he needed help to get out of.

Yep, political correctness sucks and leads to nowhere, except to embarrassing situations. HH had better either said nothing or just the truth.

Agreed again.

Yes, and when they realized what damage they had done, it was too late.
Hm, yes, Melina didn´t really reveal much, anyway nothing new that we hadn´t already guessed :lol:.

Now we have confirmation, great. Can we get a certificate or anything? :p

Didn´t she say that they wanted to discuss other aspects of her contract with which she wasn´t too happy? Maybe that´s got something to do with why she chose not to return for one or two episodes, or they chose not to let her.
And maybe the PV thing pissed her more off than we might think, that´s perhaps why she brought it up again ;).

She's saying she was asked to revisit certain clauses in her contract. She talkes about plural. Unless she talkes generally because she didn't want to say specifically that it was just one clause - the money. They talk about it in the next question anyway.
But she does say that the network/production tried to impose odd choices on her... Not sure what to make of that, however, there surely must have been a reason why she didn't return for one or two episodes. I think, if the network tried to keep her at all costs, as she said they did, then they would have wanted to make her come back for one or two episodes. Question is, how they wanted her to come back. They wouldn't let Helgenberger out after 13 episodes... though after MK already said she'd leave they'd be stupid not to accept one or two episodes and wanting her to stay for more.

That´s so true, sometimes they miss the right time to end a show on high level and often formerly great shows then get remembered only for their crappiness at the end. Maybe they should have ended Vegas when Peterson left.

I agree with that one. They definitely should end it after season 11 and we both agree on when NY should end ;)

Usually they should, but I have the feeling that from the moment MK left, they pushed her aside to save what´s left of the show to save; so they try to forget her as quickly as possible and go on they want the fans to do the same and concentrate on the show again. The thing is that MK is missed by the fans, but I doubt that those at CBS do miss her too much, this is a very disposable business.

Of course it is, the problem is that they established too strong a character in Stella and had a too strong actress in MK for Stella to just go away. There are certain characters in the show I wouldn't mind leaving but even though she wasn't a regular I minded Angell leaving. She was a great character as well and it was a pity she left. Some characters are supporting the show, other's aren't. Stella was a big supporter and she, in my opinion, helped make it what it is and she helped forming some of the other characters. It seemed like her interaction often gave others a chance to develop and to show more of their characters, since that wasn't happening in season 6...
CBS can consider her exit however they want. It's not CBS that matters in that case.

Yep, like I said, if it were for CBS, they´d just want to continue and forget the fuss as soon as possible. For them the problem is solved, they got SW, so why bother? But I hope the rankings will tell them why they should bother. Like you said, popular shows can only survive if they stay popular and keep their fans. Any unpopular decision can destroy a show, and there were quite some in S6, and I agree that not the actors but the writers are to blame.

Well, the entire executive team. But generally, the actors have the fewest to say. If you don't like what's done, leave. Most, I think, don't have the courage to walk away.

I totally agree, to me this quick announcement of SW joining the show was as if they were not only disrespectful, but also sort of "punishing" MK, as if to say: "You left, now look how we get on without you, we already filled your gap."
It wasn´t nice of CG to say this, because this was the co-lead who left, not just a recurring or other character. Though I liked Aiden and Angell a lot and would have loved them to stay, that was different.

Yes, it was but even in their case it wasn't that smooth. Okay, with Aiden it was... but it was in an interesting way and they respected Aiden's departure and showed the new one coming in and all. But they're not even doing that. They're not making it a week after Stella left but months just because they're too lazy to deal with the void Stella leaves and the emotional impact and that the team would have to regroup itself after Stella leaves.
Stella was, as I said, a supporting character for a lot of them, so after Angell was killed, even though Stella isn't dead, her absence will still create a hole and everyone has to deal with it. Friends are missed and if they're as close friends as Stella they're missed even more.

I think people who watch things with the outside point of view are more objective, they have more distance and can therefore see things that those involved on the inside don´t want to see or can´t see.

Though are we really less involved? We care and we care in a different way and I, for example, if I care, I get very critical and analyze and thus see mistakes very easily. It makes it difficult to enjoy something but in NY's case, if there's trouble I want to see how it can be fixed and then want to fix it.
So, it's being involved in a different way. I guess, CBS is above all interested in money... I'm not. (that's why they have it and I don't :p)

I agree, they have started things that never were continued, maybe for the reason of being scared of their actions. They start with something and then it´s probably "oh, oh, can´t do this, that´s too tricky".

Not necessarily that but also fans reaction. Though I think they could predict a lot of fans reactions if they actually paid attention to what is said all around them.
But it's why they release spoilers and release them in the way they release them. To get people talking. The silly thing about it by the time they release them, the basis is already done and they can only change the course whatever they planned is going.

I didn´t need an Aubrey and Peyton back to know that Mac and Stella were friends, really great, close good friends. But it seems that they felt the need to emphasize this as if they were afraid of misunderstandings.
I totally agree, this so called love triangle was a totally useless obsolete idea and it ended in the mess we have now.

Agreed. Also, it seemed they didn't realize that a lot of people love that chemistry of Mac and Stella and that to a lot of people it was a part of the show. They killed that in the second half of S6 becaue of their triangle.
But they never needed a kiss, they just needed the speculation of will they or won't they, the flirting, the occasional dinner, the close friendship. They could have just gone on with it. What they did was so unpopular in so many ways and didn't only upset the Mac-Stella shippers but also those who just wanted to see an CSI episode or simply like the banter of Mac and Stella and how they interact.

Oh oh, IF they are smart, IF only :D.

Now I again was trying to be so polite... :D

No, because I was wrong, this episode will run next week ;).

Oh well :p

Yes, but in the beginning she was often just standing there in awe of him when he investigated ;).

In the beginning of what? Season 6 or the first season?

True, she seemed to have the closer link to most of the others and Mac relied on that.

Does that mean the communication is dead now? Those should be fun dialogues... easy to learn though ;)

Well, if I understand this interview right, she sort of complained that in S6 Stella lost somehow the touch to the others, like that she didn´t ask Danny or Hawkes personally how they were e.g., but asked Lindsay and Mac. And that´s true and it was never explained why she behaved that way and I think MK was annoyed about this. So maybe she had a different aura compared to S1, but it didn´t help, it felt sometimes as if she didn´t belong.

Well, you don't need to think she was annoyed with it, she said so... in between the lines. She said that Stella wasn't with the other characters as much anymore to the point where Stella wouldn't have tolerated it.
I don't think it felt like she didn't belong, they just made the characters too much individuals. Because there were Danny and Lindsay and then there was Mac and then there was Stella and then there was Hawkes but the team was sort of lost. If there was interaction it was mostly work related apart from that one dinner they had and Christmas, well, again, it's back to the second half of season 6.

Yes, it was more or less a predictable story. The triangle, oh well, it would rather belong to Bermuda :D.

I've always had the same association when hearing that... who knows such a story might have been more entertaining... :D Though it was entertaining... but not in such a good way.

To be honest, I haven´t checked GS´s background yet, so I can´t comment on that; gotta catch up ;).

I know only little and what's on wikipedia but that's enough for me... Enough to comment and have a certain idea of him.

I imagine we might perhaps have the same opinions considering where he wants to take his character, but I don´t want to say here, either, for it´s really speculation, but might be much objected by others.

Yeah some things should better be discussed in private... which you're welcome to, if you want :)

Yes, in S3 it seemed (but only for a short time IMO) that eventually Lindsay and Stella might make friends, but this didn´t really continue or work out.

Don't know if it didn't work out or just was forgotten again.

I can´t really remember any closer scenes between them in S4, and remember how she talked of a friend´s pregnancy, while she had no problem to go to Mac with Danny and tell him straight away.

Yes but Danny was the father and she sort of confided into Stella that she was scared about the safety of the baby and it wasn't like Stella hadn't found out. But at that point they still kept the baby a secret and Lindsay wanted to know if the baby was safe.
That they told Mac was because they had to, at that point.
But Stella knew before him, in a way.

At their wedding she didn´t even let Stella hug her properly, she grabbed the bunch of flowers and just let her lay an arm around her. This may just be a little thing, but I found it weird.

I never paid attention to that, I found Mac and Stella more interesting to watch... :p

OK, maybe it´s just Lindsay´s way, maybe she´s more the distant person, after all Danny had a hard time, too, until he got closer to her ;). I think Stella and Lindsay did OK, but they weren´t really friends, though I would have expected she´d ask both Mac and Stella to be godfather and -mother.

I never saw Stella and Lindsay as great friends. They just don't got well together, not as Angell and Stella. They hit it off and I couldn't see the scene with Angell and the Greek coins with Lindsay. That wouldn't work. But Lindsay wasn't really close to anyone... or isn't.
I think it might have to do with the actress or how the role is written. Maybe both.
I think Aiden could have been more interesting as a character.

So you should better write the script ;):

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that... ;)

I agree, after all Stella is not a politician, what other can she do in NO than to hunt the bad boys, investigate and do the same she did in NY? It´s not that they are waiting there for Stella Bonasera :D.

Not really and I don't think she'd think that. And the crimes committed haven't got anything to do with the oil or the problems of the aftermath of Katrina. At least the crimes she can solve have nothing to do with that. It's crimes which were committed nevertheless but her job concentrates on other crimes.
So, I guess, no matter how we say it or from what point we view it, it won't make any more sense or respect her character any more... :(

Lori K:
Mac was at his best in season one and two after that .... he took on a power of...:confused: I dont know what:lol:

Just one power? :p
 
Comparing Melina's salary with Charlie Sheen's makes no sense. It's like comparing Michaela Conlin's (Bones) salary with Hugh Laurie's (House) and Dianna Agron's (Glee).

I don't understand why everyone keeps comparing the two. Also, when Melina didn't want to accept less money in negations, they ended up not cutting her salary.
 
Comparing Melina's salary with Charlie Sheen's makes no sense. It's like comparing Michaela Conlin's (Bones) salary with Hugh Laurie's (House) and Dianna Agron's (Glee).

I don't understand why everyone keeps comparing the two. Also, when Melina didn't want to accept less money in negations, they ended up not cutting her salary.

I agree. I also don't think Melina was vague in her interview so fans could fill in the blanks with whatever stories suit their need for closure. IMO, continuing to speculate and assign blame after reasons were given is pointless and does a disservice to everyone involved.
 
Thanks for the interview. My french was a little rusty but enough to see me thru it. My reading of it wasn't nearly as much fun as the web translation one though :lol:

...apples and oranges.
I agree.

I also don't think MK was particularly singled out; if anything I think she was another example for CBS and the season. It really looks like CBS has been hard line this season, chipping away wherever possible, network wide, at budgets. (This follows bloodbaths at several networks, over several seasons, of cuts that did indeed extend into the middling kiebler realm. How high and meaningfully into upper studio and network echelons who knows). CBS negotiations this season have been tough and extended on several major shows. And those for Big Bang Theory are apparently still ongoing, eg.

It is apples and oranges to compare Sheen to anyone on NY, GS included. Compare GS and WP if ya like mebbe. A sitcom to a procedural, less so. Yes, Sheen comes across as an overpaid misogynistic idiot. His salary was about the show and the schedule. And as much as people (rightly, imo) dump on the ridiculous sum the contract will pay him, he's only one of an ongoing line of "who's the highest paid" on tv. For sitcoms, Ray Romano was at one point, Kelsey Grammer was at one point, with salaries that would be hefty even now. William Peterson was highest paid on a drama, Mariska Hargitay among the highest paid women. Ditto Marg Helgenberger. What WP or MH were paid would be a more applicable reference for a scaled rate of pay for GS or MK on a third spin-off than whatever CBS chooses to toss at a sitcom that likely pays for itself in syndication.

It sounds like MK’s contract was originally set to go through season 7 but the producers wanted to renegotiate certain parts, which opened the door for MK to say yes or no to continuing on the series. I’m still not clear on the timeline but seems like by the time they finally decided to go back to the original contract terms, MK had already decided to move on.
Pure speculation from me here: It sounds like MK was perhaps on a six year contract optioned for a seventh? I think GS was possibly on the same, but had that extended before his option point came up. Whatever it was, it sounds like MK's contract was at a point where it was open to be revisited where others may not have been. I suspect that could be the sort of thing that happened with regards to Paget Brewster, and AJ Cook was simply not picked up. Dunno really.

The impression I got from the interview was that MK was, at the end of S5, considering ending her involvement with NY when her 6 years concluded, and then thought to continue and intended to take the option for S7, until the network broached the exact same money issues as they have on other shows. At that point she reconsidered again, and decided to move on. It sounds like she has some projects she's interested in developing, and has had other people checking in on her availability. Sounds like she was increasingly ambivalent about being stretched (or not) as an actress on NY, difficult on a procedural at the best of times, and had several places to step to if she chose not to accept another season on NY. If so I'm all the more happy for her.

-

I can't quote everything that's prompted the following as I suspect this will be another epic post :lol:.

Baseline: I think there's much for the show to improve on, and have thought such for at least the past 3 seasons. There have been things I've liked and been less enthralled with from S1 onwards :lol:. It's a culmination of things, and for me it's not one specific season or MK leaving that makes this season a tipping point, to which I also say: rumors of NY's imminent demise are potentially overexaggerated.

Anyways.

They have written Adam poorly, left out Sid, screwed with Flacks big storyline killed off Angel gave Mac Hawkes "love interest" story and what are we left with? Well the finale of course, our lovely Messer family whom they have been shoving down our throats since Anna got pregnant

- I don't think they f*cked up Flack's storyline, I think his was probably the best of the multi-ep arcs S6 managed, even if I was sad to see Angell killed. Still better than 10% to chasing perps in 5 eps for Messer.

- I think Sid and Adam have started to get some good moments outside their usual comic relief and exposition, and I hope they both get more time and material to deal with this season. They show has had both out of their typical environs more than they used to, and I'd like to see this continue as well.

- I think Sheldon got far more to do in S6 than in any prior, and had some episodes specifically devoted to him. His rumored LI may still happen in S7, and there's no way to really know how or why the show couldn't or wouldn't find a way to fit it into S6. Things are continually modified during a production season.

- I don't mind that Mac met Aubrey nor had a better resolution with Peyton than a narrated letter in S4. The former took up mebbe a total of 10 minutes across three eps, and the latter 1 ep which was also woven into a case. I think both instances let him break away from the soapbox he's been hammered into.

- DL have never been my favorite thing, but I do hafta acknowledge that until the finale at least they were far less prominent than they had been in earlier seasons.

I think the show has needed shaking up for several seasons. Each other attempt at doing something shocking has come across to me as hesitant and/or half arsed, trying to be daring without having to really take a substantial risk. Angell was opportunistic. EV was cut for $; and yet, I also think ya hafta like a character to give them a good death on a show. Haylen was a pinky toe in the water to trying to look at the labs from the outside in, combined with an !OMGAdamHazA(nother)(CuteBlonde)UberNemesis. Didn't really work very well. Adam & Stella? was Wtf for me :lol:. "It was fun but it can never happen again." I tended to agree with that sentiment. Danny getting shot; shouldn't have bothered implicating 10% stakes where there was no need. Being injured with an unknown recovery timeline or likelihood woulda been enough, especially with such a rapid recovery.

I hope MK's departure has prompted something substantial that the show otherwise would not likely have had the gumption to do: they have to make real changes, they have to look at the show anew. They can't be hesitant or waffle or hedge their bets. If ever there was a chance to take a hard look at itself, at the components it has at its fingertips and what it could be capable of, this would be it.

IMO NY has issues, no question. But I'm not gonna suddenly go doom and gloom cos MK decided she wanted to move on. I came to like MK because of NY, I never really knew her other work. I'll support her future projects because of what I saw of her on NY. I respect her deciding the time was simply right to move on to pursue them.

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As for Political Correctness. A certain tactic, and tact, in dialogue is expected by those involved, meaning the network, the show, MK, and to a certain extent, her colleagues. What I liked about CG's comment was not his words on a "smooth transition," but that he acknowledged the unexpectedness of it, what it obliges the show as a whole to undertake, and how that in itself could be a good thing. I don't think CG was disrespectful to MK in doing so.

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I also gotta divert briefly on so-called "Unpopular Choices." Individually read by viewers. Some people didn't like Angell and were happy to see her go. Some people like DL & the inclusion of the pregnancy. Some people didn't like GFD. Some people liked Peyton. Some liked Adam and Stella. Things that have boggled my mind over the years are fervently held by others :lol: to which I say to each their own. I don't think any one character, character fandom, or shipper fandom, will make or break a show like NY. It lives or sinks by it's overall quality. IMO that has been slipping, and why I hope that such major changes will lead to a renewal. Sometimes when you're scrambling you're often infusing more life than you otherwise might. I don't give the show a prejudged pass for a successful transition because I've not seen it yet. I also won't prejudge a failure simply because MK has left the building.

God. Altough maybe I'm misreading it but it just seems like this forum has become less civil since the news of Kanakaredes leaving the show.
Possibly, on several sides of the discussion, even. And yet, there have also been many eloquent, thoughtful and articulate posts on all sides too, about what is undeniably a major shift for the show. Disagreement doesn't hafta equate with lack of civility, and overall I don't think it has.

But to me it always felt like they were scared of their own actions. That once they realized they had taken a step too far they took two steps backwards. So, they had GFD, they had Death House and they had Second Chances and it seemed to me like they freaked and they needed desperately to get away from the Mac-Stella thing again. So they brought in Aubrey and that triangle to sort of show that Mac and Stella are just friends. That it didn't make sense didn't really matter.
GFD, Death House, 2nd Chances were just regular eps for me. Of course, I'm not a Smack follower. Scared and went too far with what, would be my question :p. I think Death House was a fun if fluffy ep. 2nd Chances was an ep that screamed "lookit we've been carefully doling out material to each character this season and this is one of Stella's." Was ok. Suffered for mallets as many eps do. GFD, not a fave ep and while there were moments that I liked, it's not one I'd hold up as one of NY's better.

So I suppose I'm suggesting, as a regular, non-smack viewer, that it's entirely possible that Aubrey and Peyton each had nothing at all to do with Stella.

Also, as I said before, they needed to build up to that triangle and Stella wouldn't have fit in there, so she needed to drop out of the picture.
That triangle was probably one of the most stupid things they ever came up with.
They brought in Aubrey in order to further augment the interaction written for Peyton and Mac in POV, no question. I also think that what they wrote for Aubrey was strong enough to have stood on it's own had they simply been looking to have Mac take a chance on a new relationship. Seeing it in its entirety, the set up and eventual follow thru with POV was fun and well done. No catfights, and relatively suds free, and no ominous melodrama portending for S7. I was very pleasantly surprised.

Referencing the ^ above quote again here as well, the notion they developed the triangle to somehow sideline a non-existent romantic relationship between Mac and Stella and show they're just friends? No, sorry, I don't see it that way. Just IMO. Also, the way it was handled in the end, with what was onscreen measured against the eyerolling promo-spin, was indeed not one of the most stupid things they ever came up with. IMO.

I didn´t need an Aubrey and Peyton back to know that Mac and Stella were friends, really great, close good friends. But it seems that they felt the need to emphasize this as if they were afraid of misunderstandings.
I totally agree, this so called love triangle was a totally useless obsolete idea and it ended in the mess we have now.
I don't need an Aubrey or Peyton to know Mac and Stella are great friends either. I was able to discern that quite on my own :lol:. I also had no misunderstandings :p. Don't see much mess to warrant mops or pylons either.

Well, too many cooks spoil the meal, so maybe less would be more and they should sort the work strictly into writing and producing separately.
I couldn't agree more.
I've done gone lost track of which post this originated within and so I hope I've not misunderstood what this pertains to :p. If I've missed the point, apologies. Anyways. ...It's my understanding that writers are producers. That most producers are writers, and titles have more to do with acknowledging experience & seniority in pay.

Personally, I'd rather a show have more creative minds working amid all the pressures of a prime time show than fewer.

NY....characters with such great personalities... they'd be perfect for books.
Agree.

-

Starting to lose track here :lol:. I'm sure I mentioned Stella in three lines on topic in there somewherez :lol:. Hope so.
 
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But she does say that the network/production tried to impose odd choices on her... Not sure what to make of that, however, there surely must have been a reason why she didn't return for one or two episodes. I think, if the network tried to keep her at all costs, as she said they did, then they would have wanted to make her come back for one or two episodes. Question is, how they wanted her to come back.
It certianly would have been beneficial for CBS and Melina to exit on a more positive note and I cant imagine Melina not wanting to leave in such a way except for possiably being slighted by CBS and if they did indeed try at all costs, something is not adding up here hence the "HOW"? Besides the timing does not sit well with me.


It is apples and oranges to compare Sheen to anyone on NY
Are you saying this because of show popularity or name recognition? Because I think (my point anyway) is that to much went to CS and did not leave enough for the other cast from the other shows given Sheens dispicable recent off stage activities. It is my hope it becomes money wasted and falling viewership.:)
I don't think they f*cked up Flack's storyline, I think his was probably the best of the multi-ep arcs S6 managed, even if I was sad to see Angell killed.
But they could have delved into it more and considered bringing his sister back. Although I did enjoy seeing Nelly again I think that was about my favorite of all storylines of the last season. What irritated me was how the D/L storyline just took over but I guess it depends through whose eyes you are watching it!:p
I think Sheldon got far more to do in S6 than in any prior
This I agree with!

- I don't mind that Mac met Aubrey nor had a better resolution with Peyton than a narrated letter in S4. The former took up mebbe a total of 10 minutes across three eps, and the latter 1 ep which was also woven into a case.
Since I didn't like either one of them 10 minutes was to much for me:lol: and as far as Peyton it wasnt as bad as I thought it would be, but did not make me like her any better!:p

NY has issues, no question. But I'm not gonna suddenly go doom and gloom cos MK decided she wanted to move on. I came to like MK because of NY
I feel the story writing has become a main issue. They need to get back to crime solving and forget the diaper changing. As far as a personal choice it was Melinas character and Mac and Stellas friendship that led me to New york so, if my reason for visiting no longer exists I will probably pack my bags and head on down the road no doom and gloom just no incentive to stay...well maybe I will check in for a Flack eye candy fix on a rerun:devil:
Hope so. ...To Clicky or meh? Clicky. Why not.
Of course you must! how else am I expected to get my optical calisthenics for the day!:lol:
 
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Problem with that was that they changed the characters in a not-credible way.
I don't mind changing the direction as long as it makes sense. However, they had already established so much of a their characters by the time they changed the direction that they went against the character profiles they created.
That reminds me of an interview that TPTB did before the beginning of S6, they were talking of "a lot of personal stuff of the characters to come, much more than before". Well, what happened is that they tried to stuff so many things into some characters that they messed it up, especially because they, like you said, changed the directions to the contrary of the original profile. Now it´s not that people can´t or don´t change, but then there´s a meaning behind it, something to make sense, and that didn´t seem so in the show. They threw them at our feet and didn´t explain much. And worst of all it seemed as if they had written the stuff without any enthusiasm, being careless about whether or not this would all fit.

I know.
I still wonder if Lenkov's departure also might have had to do with the "odd choices" MK was faced with
Could well be that there were disagreements between him and the other writers.

Haylen I still wonder why they brought her in. I think she was supposed to be a counter-part to Adam. Many were upset because they had said Angell was written out b/c of paycuts, so why bring in a new character if she had to go (though already back then there were rumors that it wasn't the paycuts...)
In any case, Haylen was sort of silly and they could have just brought Kendall back.
Aubrey came for the love triangle, as did Peyton yet we never got the cliffhanger of who Mac would have to chose... I don't mind the least but the problem with that was, that PV got overly excited with her Twilight reference and the fans weren't. No surprise there, I mean, if you had paid attention to the general reaction before you would have known that it wouldn't be popular, thus the spoilers were huge, the episodes were weak and it all sort of faded into nothing.
I agree, it was firstly a bad timing to bring in Haylen when they just had fired Vaugier and from that interview I read of her, it was really a pay cut thing, she confirmed it. So no one could understand why they brought a new character when there were allegedly financial problems. Secondly Aubrey wasn´t an emphatical character, she was bitching up Adam and seemed after his job- so how could they even dream that anybody would like her, someone so silly being annoying to Everybody´s Darling? They realized their mistake and off came she and the story remained unfinished. And so it went on, Aubrey came and as much as I remember it wasn´t originally planned to make it a love triangle, Aubrey was supposed to become Mac´s new love interest. Why on Earth PV got the idea to write Peyton back and create a soap opera story will remain her secret. But apparently she realized it was a stupid idea and so she let it slip, the next unfinished story, though not one to miss. The Twilight reference was utterly embarrassing IMO, can´t help it :lol:.
I agree that there doesn´t necessarily have to be an arc every season, but they talked a lot of a Hawkes-arc to come and HH himself tweeted about it, let alone the love interest that was to come- but then what came was a very poor single Hawkes episode that wasn´t worth the fuss. They announced so many things for S6 that never came true that it seems to me that they had a lot of problems with creating stories for S6, a certain lack of ideas, being not happy with what they wrote and therefore threw it in the dustbin, came quickly up with something hastily written down- and it showed, it showed a lot.

It's strange... it seems like they only chose her, so I wonder why not any of the others. I mean, I adore him, he's eye-candy but it would be easier to get "rid" of Flack/Cahill altogether and bring in different detectives. Would be more credible anyway, the CSI's wouldn't naturally work with the same detective each and every time. And they could have written him out by making him want a fresh start somewhere else because of Angell. In any case, it's strange that it seems to have been only MK... Or the others accepted cuts without complaint though I would want to think they didn't.
I don´t know what happened behind the scenes, if she was the only one or if she was the only one not accepting the new conditions of the contract with which they came up. Well, they shouldn´t have killed Angell, that was somehow the turning point, from there on the misery began, because originally they probably had planned a completely different cliffhanger, then they chose to sack Vaugier, re-wrote everything and from there on it was all confused, they never found their way back on the right track.

There are probably very few who wouldn't have accepted.
That´s true, that´s too much of an amount to refuse.

Just said to a friend: the word is greed. Greed is ruling the world and it's ruling the show business as wel.
Especially the show business, right after the politics.

That was what Helgenberger said that they all had a cut last season because of the economy. I doubt the executives got cuts :p
Now that´s like in the politics: the politicians increase taxes and whatever to fix the economy, but of course, they do not cut their own salaries :D.
Could it be that they wanted to get rid of her? If they knew negotiations would come and that Helgenberger wasn´t sure as to whether she´d stay or not, maybe they thought if they´d demand another pay cut, she´d leave voluntarily. But on the other hand, she´s a co-leading and popular character, why want to get rid of her? But you can never know.

That's how it sounded like in the interview. She said she's gotten several scripts sent and since it had been only three weeks... they must have arrived rather quickly. Good for her. She deserves it.
Yes, apparently word spread quickly that she was going to leave, so they sent in the offers, happy that she´s eventually free to be approached.

I agree - with everything ;)
I think MK might have had the most to "play with" anyway. With the background story they gave Stella... and they established her background right from the start. With Mac it was different, he got fed bits and pieces.
But MK knew right from the start that there were a couple of things and she wanted Stella to go somewhere, as she said. She had the chance to go somewhere, Mac sort of seemed a finished character while Stella was still growing.
Good ;).
And I agree with everything, too ;). Stella wasn´t a finished character like Mac, just the opposite. With that background MK could develop Stella more and more and for a long time the writers were of much help with the stories. But Mac somehow seemed and seems to be just the ex-marine and lonely widower. Sometimes we find out something more, like about his father, but that is very rare compared to Stella´s history.
In the end MK got nowhere with Stella, because they seemed to have no good ideas anymore of what to do with this character. Shame on them.

Now we have confirmation, great. Can we get a certificate or anything? :p
Or a medal? :D

She's saying she was asked to revisit certain clauses in her contract. She talkes about plural. Unless she talkes generally because she didn't want to say specifically that it was just one clause - the money. They talk about it in the next question anyway.
But she does say that the network/production tried to impose odd choices on her... Not sure what to make of that, however, there surely must have been a reason why she didn't return for one or two episodes. I think, if the network tried to keep her at all costs, as she said they did, then they would have wanted to make her come back for one or two episodes. Question is, how they wanted her to come back.
Yes, I noticed that, too, and wonder what exactly she means with it. But I agree, since they had taken back the pay cut, there must be other reasons as to why MK didn´t return for one or two episodes. Maybe she didn´t like the story they had thought out for her goodbye. Didn´t she also say that she won´t watch how they´ve written Stella out? That sounds as if she doesn´t have much trust in TPTB´s writing skills anymore, as if she thinks they´ll create a stupid story- well, how right she is ;).

I agree with that one. They definitely should end it after season 11 and we both agree on when NY should end ;)
Absolutely ;).

Of course it is, the problem is that they established too strong a character in Stella and had a too strong actress in MK for Stella to just go away. There are certain characters in the show I wouldn't mind leaving but even though she wasn't a regular I minded Angell leaving. She was a great character as well and it was a pity she left.
Exactly, that´s the crux, with some other characters it wouldn´t have been a problem if they´d left, they are not too important and not really supporting the show. Agree, Angell was great, even if she was "only" a recurring character, and Stella was of course highly important and carried the show and I agree, her interactions with the other characters helped them to form and develop.

Well, the entire executive team. But generally, the actors have the fewest to say. If you don't like what's done, leave. Most, I think, don't have the courage to walk away.
Yes, that´s the point, unless they are co-producers; I guess GS might have a bit more say. I agree, most rather accept worse conditions than to leave, because it´s convenient to play in such a show, a pretty safe job and some might be afraid of not finding an equally good and well paid role.

Yes, it was but even in their case it wasn't that smooth. Okay, with Aiden it was... but it was in an interesting way and they respected Aiden's departure and showed the new one coming in and all. But they're not even doing that.
I agree, Aiden´s departure was well written and interesting, the story made sense. OK, with Aiden they had more time to prepare her exit, because Vanessa told them she wanted to leave, but one should think they´d have enough imagination to create a proper story for Stella´s departure in a short time. But like you said they´re too lazy to deal with it, rather they just jump in time and all has happened months before and they just go on as if nothing at all has happened. How that´s supposed to make sense.....

Though are we really less involved? We care and we care in a different way and I, for example, if I care, I get very critical and analyze and thus see mistakes very easily. It makes it difficult to enjoy something but in NY's case, if there's trouble I want to see how it can be fixed and then want to fix it.
So, it's being involved in a different way. I guess, CBS is above all interested in money... I'm not. (that's why they have it and I don't :p)
Well, we are involved as fans and viewers, and sometimes I can´t believe why I bother so much with just a TV-show, as if I don´t have enough other things to care for :lol:, but I used to love this show and seeing it go downhill and how they let one of their finest just go away- well, that bothers me a lot :D.
Yes, that´s the problem, CBS only see the Dollar bills, we are a bit more idealistic and therefore rather poor :lol:.

Not necessarily that but also fans reaction. Though I think they could predict a lot of fans reactions if they actually paid attention to what is said all around them.
But it's why they release spoilers and release them in the way they release them. To get people talking. The silly thing about it by the time they release them, the basis is already done and they can only change the course whatever they planned is going.
They´d only have to read the fan forums sometimes to know from which direction the wind blows, but they probably don´t or don´t care, though they always claim to be interested in the fans´reaction to certain stories.
Yes, with the spoilers they keep us awake and interested to discuss the stuff, but I don´t think our opinions have a lot of influence. Maybe Haylen would have been sent off anyway without them knowing that she wasn´t popular, e.g..

Agreed. Also, it seemed they didn't realize that a lot of people love that chemistry of Mac and Stella and that to a lot of people it was a part of the show. They killed that in the second half of S6 becaue of their triangle.
But they never needed a kiss, they just needed the speculation of will they or won't they, the flirting, the occasional dinner, the close friendship. They could have just gone on with it. What they did was so unpopular in so many ways and didn't only upset the Mac-Stella shippers but also those who just wanted to see an CSI episode or simply like the banter of Mac and Stella and how they interact.
I agree, it was good the way it was until they stopped it in S6 for whatever reason. Maybe they thought it was time for something new in the show: the brilliant love triangle :D, but if they thought this would work then they were either naive or underestimated the fans´opinions (once more). Because the great chemistry of the two leading people of the show was its essence, nearly everybody loved it, no matter how they interpreted it, either as more than friendship or not, but that was up to everybody. The main thing was that it was something special and outstanding and they gave it up for nothing. Now they´ll see what they got.

Now I again was trying to be so polite... :D
OK, so I take the mean part :D.

In the beginning of what? Season 6 or the first season?
First season.

Does that mean the communication is dead now? Those should be fun dialogues... easy to learn though ;
)Well, don´t know, maybe a communication breakdown ;).

Well, you don't need to think she was annoyed with it, she said so... in between the lines. She said that Stella wasn't with the other characters as much anymore to the point where Stella wouldn't have tolerated it.
I don't think it felt like she didn't belong, they just made the characters too much individuals. Because there were Danny and Lindsay and then there was Mac and then there was Stella and then there was Hawkes but the team was sort of lost. If there was interaction it was mostly work related apart from that one dinner they had and Christmas, well, again, it's back to the second half of season 6.
Absolutely agree. And it was so obvious in the first half of S6 that Stella wasn´t her old self, but instead of elaborating and explaining it with a subtle story, we just had to take it and wonder, and MK did the same.
True, there was much less interaction, scenes like in "Manhattanhenge" and "Second Chances" were exceptions.

I've always had the same association when hearing that... who knows such a story might have been more entertaining... :D Though it was entertaining... but not in such a good way.
Oh, yes, Aubrey and Peyton lost in the Bermuda triangle, Mac playing the hero trying to find them and unfortunately it turns out that for once he can´t defeat the enemy :D.

I know only little and what's on wikipedia but that's enough for me... Enough to comment and have a certain idea of him.
Well, I should check good old Wiki, but I sense I know what I´ll find ;).

Yeah some things should better be discussed in private... which you're welcome to, if you want :)
Thank you, I´ll come back to that offer ;).



Don't know if it didn't work out or just was forgotten again.
Hm, hard to tell, maybe they just wanted to point out with the two that it is like in real life: with some people you hit it off immediately, with some never.

Yes but Danny was the father and she sort of confided into Stella that she was scared about the safety of the baby and it wasn't like Stella hadn't found out. But at that point they still kept the baby a secret and Lindsay wanted to know if the baby was safe.
That they told Mac was because they had to, at that point.
But Stella knew before him, in a way.
Yeah, it was her way to tell Stella she´s pregnant, and she didn´t really make it too hard for Stella to find out, but still I think she could have told her straight away. If they had been real friends, I´m sure she would have done so.
And Mac´s the boss, alright and they had to tell him some day, that´s true.

I never paid attention to that, I found Mac and Stella more interesting to watch... :p
Well, if ever you watch that one again, try to keep your eyes off them and on Stella and Lindsay :p.

I never saw Stella and Lindsay as great friends. They just don't got well together, not as Angell and Stella. They hit it off and I couldn't see the scene with Angell and the Greek coins with Lindsay. That wouldn't work. But Lindsay wasn't really close to anyone... or isn't.
I think it might have to do with the actress or how the role is written. Maybe both.
I think Aiden could have been more interesting as a character.
As I said they just didn´t ever have the chemistry, that happens. Angell was completely different, and I agree, Lindsay isn´t really very close with anybody. It´s maybe both, AB developed this role to that, either deliberately or not.
Yes, pity Vanessa wanted to leave, she was by way much more interesting.

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that... ;)
Good, so hey Mr. Bruckheimer, read this ;).

Not really and I don't think she'd think that. And the crimes committed haven't got anything to do with the oil or the problems of the aftermath of Katrina. At least the crimes she can solve have nothing to do with that. It's crimes which were committed nevertheless but her job concentrates on other crimes.
So, I guess, no matter how we say it or from what point we view it, it won't make any more sense or respect her character any more... :(
Yes, I agree; in NO she wouldn´t do anything other than she did in NY: solving crimes, most ordinary, some less ordinary, but that´s all she can do there.

Sarah: We´re not comparing Melina´s salary to Sheen´s. But isn´t it firstly in general totally out of proportion to pay someone such an amount for EVERY episode and secondly why then should other actors accept pay cuts? I´m not saying Melina should earn 1,5 Mio per episode, too, but she was right not to accept another pay cut either when at the same time other actors´salaries rise and rise, and he isn´t worth that much, it´s not a role that demands world class performance.
Yes, they took the pay cut back, but alone the attempt that they tried to cut it down was a shame and so she was right not to change her mind; after all she has to keep her pride and there were also other things concerning her contract where they had disagreements.
 
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It is apples and oranges to compare Sheen to anyone on NY
Are you saying this because of show popularity or name recognition? Because I think (my point anyway) is that to much went to CS and did not leave enough for the other cast from the other shows given Sheens dispicable recent off stage activities. It is my hope it becomes money wasted and falling viewership.:)
I'm saying this because I don't think show budgets relate in the way implied.

But they could have delved into it more and considered bringing his sister back. Although I did enjoy seeing Nelly again I think that was about my favorite of all storylines of the last season. What irritated me was how the D/L storyline just took over but I guess it depends through whose eyes you are watching it!:p
They could have, and I'd have loved to see Sam Flack incorporated into the arc somehow, given how the direction his struggles took had a certain parallel to hers. I also liked seeing Nelly back, and that Terence was the one who helped scrape Flack from rockbottom.

I feel the story writing has become a main issue. They need to get back to crime solving and forget the diaper changing. As far as a personal choice it was Melinas character and Mac and Stellas friendship that led me to New york so, if my reason for visiting no longer exists I will probably pack my bags and head on down the road no doom and gloom just no incentive to stay...well maybe I will check in for a Flack eye candy fix on a rerun:devil:
I agree about the story writing. I think the mysteries and storytelling and even how eps have been structured have suffered for balance. If they can tighten that up I've no problem with personal stuff remaining part of the show, and part of what does set it apart.

Of course you must! how else am I expected to get my optical calisthenics for the day!:lol:
;)

Looks like I've lost my crown though. Several others now consistently beating my post lengths, and certainly my frequency :lol:. Looks like your optical calisthenics will not be lacking for options :p.
 
It is apples and oranges to compare Sheen to anyone on NY
Are you saying this because of show popularity or name recognition? Because I think (my point anyway) is that to much went to CS and did not leave enough for the other cast from the other shows given Sheens dispicable recent off stage activities. It is my hope it becomes money wasted and falling viewership.:)
The shows have no similarities. Two and a Half Men is a sitcom, CSI is a crime-drama. I don't think I heard about John Cyer, Angus Jones, or the other cast members complaining about Charlie Sheen's salary, so I don't understand what you are complaining about. What the people on Two and a Half Men are paid has no correlation to what the actors on a show like CSI are paid. They don't even share any of the same production companies.

The budget for the shows is not linked the way you seem to imply. There isn't just a "CBS Budget" that gets spread around to all their programming.
 
Elwood21:
There's nothing speculative about her contract running until season 7. It's what MK said in the interview. She had a contract for until after S7 and when asked if she was allowed to get out of it early, she said that they approached her to renegotiate certain terms of her contract and then gave her the choice to leave. She wanted to drop out after S7, she had already made that decision. However, she would have fulfilled her contract had CBS not wanted to renegotiate.
That's her words, not my speculation.

That reminds me of an interview that TPTB did before the beginning of S6, they were talking of "a lot of personal stuff of the characters to come, much more than before".

Where did it go? :p

Well, what happened is that they tried to stuff so many things into some characters that they messed it up, especially because they, like you said, changed the directions to the contrary of the original profile. Now it´s not that people can´t or don´t change, but then there´s a meaning behind it, something to make sense, and that didn´t seem so in the show. They threw them at our feet and didn´t explain much. And worst of all it seemed as if they had written the stuff without any enthusiasm, being careless about whether or not this would all fit.

Yes, of course, people change but the basics of a people don't change. You're not shy and withdrawn one day and outgoing the next. Sure, sometimes actions can be a bit out of character but in general, actions and decisions are according to a character and make sense. You can explain the actions even though they might seem a bit odd at first. However, that wasn't the case with CSI NY... and I didn't see a lot of personal stuff anyway, other than for Mac...

I agree, it was firstly a bad timing to bring in Haylen when they just had fired Vaugier and from that interview I read of her, it was really a pay cut thing, she confirmed it.

It's strange how there's always pay-cut then there's some denial and in the end it turns out to have to do with money one way or another. :rolleyes:

So no one could understand why they brought a new character when there were allegedly financial problems. Secondly Aubrey wasn´t an emphatical character, she was bitching up Adam and seemed after his job- so how could they even dream that anybody would like her, someone so silly being annoying to Everybody´s Darling?

I think you got the name mixed up here :D
I think Haylen could have been a good character but... well... they messed it up. Surprise ;)

They realized their mistake and off came she and the story remained unfinished. And so it went on, Aubrey came and as much as I remember it wasn´t originally planned to make it a love triangle, Aubrey was supposed to become Mac´s new love interest.

Yes, but I'm not even sure if that was planned from the beginning of the season. It seemed like they had made up their mind to do that around the middle... and she was the second character that came in after they killed Angell.
Maybe they felt they were running out of ideas of what to do for the second half of the season? You sure could get the impression.
Well, they never revealed whether Haylen got the FBI job or not but they didn't really leave her story unfinished, did they?

Why on Earth PV got the idea to write Peyton back and create a soap opera story will remain her secret.

Because she loves Twilight and delighted over the fact that it was so similar? :D But then if she loves it that much, she could have left CSI NY and gone write something like that... Now it's too late anyway.

I agree that there doesn´t necessarily have to be an arc every season, but they talked a lot of a Hawkes-arc to come and HH himself tweeted about it, let alone the love interest that was to come- but then what came was a very poor single Hawkes episode that wasn´t worth the fuss. They announced so many things for S6 that never came true that it seems to me that they had a lot of problems with creating stories for S6, a certain lack of ideas, being not happy with what they wrote and therefore threw it in the dustbin, came quickly up with something hastily written down- and it showed, it showed a lot.

I agree with everything... Question is, why didn't they go for the Hawkes storyline? It's strange, if they announce something you think they would have ideas for it. So, it seems, that things didn't get through some stage of the executive ladder. There was plenty of room for everything in the second half.
I don't really know though what that NY obsession is with the love interests. The other shows can do without, why does NY feel the need to bring in a love interest for everyone? If it turns out to be story relevant, I don't mind. So Frankie and Drew served their purposes and as I said, I didn't mind Peyton, she worked with them, so that was okay. But Aubrey... what was the point? I would have loved a story in which Mac found she reminded him about Claire and then he would have been sort of blind to maybe an involvement in crime she would have had. It would have been great to show more about his character, develop his relationship with the other characters and show a different side of him.
However, Aubrey in the way they used her... Big question mark.
It's a crime show, so love interests have to serve their purposes or should only be mentioned and not shown excessively. 45 minutes are just not enough to juggle personal life and work life of the characters.

I don´t know what happened behind the scenes, if she was the only one or if she was the only one not accepting the new conditions of the contract with which they came up. Well, they shouldn´t have killed Angell, that was somehow the turning point, from there on the misery began, because originally they probably had planned a completely different cliffhanger, then they chose to sack Vaugier, re-wrote everything and from there on it was all confused, they never found their way back on the right track.

I don't know if they planned a different cliffhanger, after all, Angell wasn't the cliffhanger and it seemed like they still knew where they were going with the first episodes. While I didn't really like some of what they did and it didn't make sense in the way of "why" I did understand what they did (if that makes sense :lol: ) But who knows what was going on during S6 that caused the second half to turn out the way it did. If the writers/executives weren't agreeing with each other... well, I guess we saw the outcome of that ;)
But yes, it seems like killing Angell started off that whole mess.

Now that´s like in the politics: the politicians increase taxes and whatever to fix the economy, but of course, they do not cut their own salaries :D.
Could it be that they wanted to get rid of her? If they knew negotiations would come and that Helgenberger wasn´t sure as to whether she´d stay or not, maybe they thought if they´d demand another pay cut, she´d leave voluntarily. But on the other hand, she´s a co-leading and popular character, why want to get rid of her? But you can never know.

Well, they didn't want her to leave, apparently, since they arranged for her to stay for 19 episodes while she wanted to do 13.
I wonder if they tried to make an arrangement like that with MK as well. I would think so but you never know and in any way, if they did, she obviously refused.
I wouldn't be surprised though if CBS had not understood that this was not all about money.

And I agree with everything, too ;). Stella wasn´t a finished character like Mac, just the opposite. With that background MK could develop Stella more and more and for a long time the writers were of much help with the stories. But Mac somehow seemed and seems to be just the ex-marine and lonely widower. Sometimes we find out something more, like about his father, but that is very rare compared to Stella´s history.
In the end MK got nowhere with Stella, because they seemed to have no good ideas anymore of what to do with this character. Shame on them.

Yes, and somehow it seemed that no matter what, they didn't bring out a different side of Mac. I didn't find him so different while he was with Peyton either, if anything he was closer with Stella than before. But emotionally there didn't seem to be any depth, somehow.
Okay, I guess GS is a guy and they often act differently than women, so I guess, it's a different character identification. Like for MK it was easier and more natural to explore her character while he was more distant to that.

Yes, I noticed that, too, and wonder what exactly she means with it. But I agree, since they had taken back the pay cut, there must be other reasons as to why MK didn´t return for one or two episodes. Maybe she didn´t like the story they had thought out for her goodbye. Didn´t she also say that she won´t watch how they´ve written Stella out? That sounds as if she doesn´t have much trust in TPTB´s writing skills anymore, as if she thinks they´ll create a stupid story- well, how right she is ;).

No, she said she doesn't know how CBS was going to write her out and hoped it was done with taste.
Which sounds like they didn't even discuss it. So, it seems like how they were going to write her out wasn't a reason why she wouldn't come back. Unless they wanted to kill her and she said no, she's not coming back for that and CBS changed their minds after all the uproar of her leaving and decided to not kill her.
In any case, it seems like that's a question that will forever remain unanswered ;)
But her mentioning that she hopes it's done with taste does say a lot more than it seems to do.

Yes, that´s the point, unless they are co-producers; I guess GS might have a bit more say. I agree, most rather accept worse conditions than to leave, because it´s convenient to play in such a show, a pretty safe job and some might be afraid of not finding an equally good and well paid role.

Yes but then GS is only listed as producer without any fancy attachment to the word "producer" so, as far as I know, he's pretty low in the food chain of producers ;)

I agree, Aiden´s departure was well written and interesting, the story made sense. OK, with Aiden they had more time to prepare her exit, because Vanessa told them she wanted to leave, but one should think they´d have enough imagination to create a proper story for Stella´s departure in a short time. But like you said they´re too lazy to deal with it, rather they just jump in time and all has happened months before and they just go on as if nothing at all has happened. How that´s supposed to make sense.....

To be fair, they did have the advantage of Vanessa actually being present. That makes things a lot easier.
Stella's departure is tricky because there was no set-up and part of what makes her leaving NY so weird is becuase there's no major event preceding her departure that could have led her to want to leave the only city and people she's ever known as home and family.
I don't know what would have made the most sense... there's several option and I think they could all have made sense when done right but going into that would a) be too much detail and b) would also prompt too many discussions based on personal preferences.

Well, we are involved as fans and viewers, and sometimes I can´t believe why I bother so much with just a TV-show,

Yeah... totally agree with that ;)

as if I don´t have enough other things to care for :lol:, but I used to love this show and seeing it go downhill and how they let one of their finest just go away- well, that bothers me a lot :D.

And sometimes it's just nice to have something silly to worry about and get upset over a TV show because let's face it: real life sucks enough ;)

They´d only have to read the fan forums sometimes to know from which direction the wind blows, but they probably don´t or don´t care, though they always claim to be interested in the fans´reaction to certain stories.

They're interested in ratings, if they aren't right, they change their direction, however, it seems as if someone higher up in the ranks is pretty much immune and/or blind to criticism and/or too stubborn to see which direction would have brought more ratings.
A show can't work though if the executives bring in their own interests. It's not about them. If they don't like it, they've got to have to stop working with the show... or they'll ruin it.

Yes, with the spoilers they keep us awake and interested to discuss the stuff, but I don´t think our opinions have a lot of influence. Maybe Haylen would have been sent off anyway without them knowing that she wasn´t popular, e.g..

The ratings do though... and the rest I just wrote above ;)

I agree, it was good the way it was until they stopped it in S6 for whatever reason. Maybe they thought it was time for something new in the show: the brilliant love triangle :D, but if they thought this would work then they were either naive or underestimated the fans´opinions (once more).

Not sure if it's underestimation or just plain ignorance...

Because the great chemistry of the two leading people of the show was its essence, nearly everybody loved it, no matter how they interpreted it, either as more than friendship or not, but that was up to everybody. The main thing was that it was something special and outstanding and they gave it up for nothing. Now they´ll see what they got.

Exactly, that's the thing, that they satisfied people who wanted more for Mac and Stella and those who didn't want more with the way they did it and they irritated both parties with how things were going in S6 and they upset them even more now.
I guess, the triangle will remain just another one of those mysteries...

First season.

Okay, but then, as I said, he seemed to be sort of a mentor still. Though it's a little confusing in the light of her having been supposed to be the boss of the others (Aiden, Danny). But with some of the things he said to her, I got the impression and she also sometimes seemed to comment on what she was seeing on a body or whatever as if that was the case. At least in the first half. She got more independent in the second. Maybe they needed to define their roles more clearly at the beginning.

Absolutely agree. And it was so obvious in the first half of S6 that Stella wasn´t her old self, but instead of elaborating and explaining it with a subtle story, we just had to take it and wonder, and MK did the same.

Yes, she was in a way withdrawn, though she did have quite a lot interaction with Mac especially in comparison to the others.
But in some ways it was almost as if Mac had taken on her role, with Flack, with Hawkes, however, it didn't come over too well. While it always seemed natural care with Stella with Mac it seemed like he just did another heroic act. Not as drastic, but that's generally what it portrayed.

Oh, yes, Aubrey and Peyton lost in the Bermuda triangle, Mac playing the hero trying to find them and unfortunately it turns out that for once he can´t defeat the enemy :D.
And while he's on his way back he gets stranded in New Orleans in the aftermath of Katrina and picks up Stella to bring her back to New York because he needs the consolation that he couldn't defeat the enemy :p

Thank you, I´ll come back to that offer ;).

Cool.

Hm, hard to tell, maybe they just wanted to point out with the two that it is like in real life: with some people you hit it off immediately, with some never.

No offense to anyone but no, I don't think they were thinking that far. I think it was a case of: we forget that we had that approach in S3 like we forgot so many other things and didn't need the connection between the two anymore. Purpose was served in S3, then they needed it again in one episode in S5 and back it came and lost it was again afterwards.

Yeah, it was her way to tell Stella she´s pregnant, and she didn´t really make it too hard for Stella to find out, but still I think she could have told her straight away. If they had been real friends, I´m sure she would have done so.

I think it was supposed to show that she was still uncomfortable and maybe they wanted Mac to learn first because he was the boss but she needed to know in that instant that the baby was safe.

Well, if ever you watch that one again, try to keep your eyes off them and on Stella and Lindsay :p.

Do I have to? :D

As I said they just didn´t ever have the chemistry, that happens. Angell was completely different, and I agree, Lindsay isn´t really very close with anybody. It´s maybe both, AB developed this role to that, either deliberately or not.
Yes, pity Vanessa wanted to leave, she was by way much more interesting.

And again we find, so many things could have gone so much better... :D

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that... ;)
Good, so hey Mr. Bruckheimer, read this ;).

But he'd have to get rid of PV in that case because I certainly don't want to argue with that woman :p

Yes, I agree; in NO she wouldn´t do anything other than she did in NY: solving crimes, most ordinary, some less ordinary, but that´s all she can do there.

Nothing else to say here... other than I still don't understand what CBS was thinking Stella would think she could do down there to help those in need of help... :confused:

PerfectAnomaly:
I agree. I also don't think Melina was vague in her interview so fans could fill in the blanks with whatever stories suit their need for closure. IMO, continuing to speculate and assign blame after reasons were given is pointless and does a disservice to everyone involved.

The thing is, there were no reasons given. Or can you tell me what exactly she's talking about here?

I was offered to leave, so I did. I wasn't asked to leave; let's say the production tried to impose odd choices on me.

In that entire interview, that is not explained. She's saying a lot without saying anything at all. She wanted to leave, CBS reopened the negotiations and she made the decision. There's a lot left to read between the lines though.
 
I'm saying this because I don't think show budgets relate in the way implied
Thanks for the clarification:thumbsup:
Looks like I've lost my crown though.
I'm afraid I couldnt see that, my vision is abit blurred!!:lol:
Several others now consistently beating my post lengths, and certainly my frequency
Which I am enjoying tremendously:thumbsup:
Looks like your optical calisthenics will not be lacking for options :p.
Your right about that, I'm feeling pretty "buff" these days!:lol:

The shows have no similarities. Two and a Half Men is a sitcom, CSI is a crime-drama
REALLY! GEEZ... I NEVER would have known that if you would not have pointed it out!:eek:

Charlie Sheen's salary, so I don't understand what you are complaining about.
2 cents is more than he is worth let alone 2 mil:lol: I saw ten minutes of the show and I'm good:thumbsup:

I don't think I heard about John Cyer, Angus Jones, or the other cast members complaining about Charlie Sheen's salary
Do you really think you would:rolleyes:

The budget for the shows is not linked the way you seem to imply
Sorry about that I should have checked with you first!!:rolleyes::lol:

Yet, ''Charlie supposedly told a friend that he's 'already auditioning women to be Mrs. Sheen Number Next,' '' said the source.
Aragont A**:rolleyes:
 
@ Ballettmaus:

I was musing about how the contract may have been structured within an overall seven year framework, given that six year contracts are apparently typical and option points are common. Seems valid to me.

I'm afraid I couldnt see that, my vision is abit blurred!!
Mine too :lol:. Now I know how it feels :p.
 
REALLY! GEEZ... I NEVER would have known that if you would not have pointed it out!:eek:


2 cents is more than he is worth let alone 2 mil:lol: I saw ten minutes of the show and I'm good:thumbsup:


Do you really think you would:rolleyes:

The budget for the shows is not linked the way you seem to imply
Sorry about that I should have checked with you first!!:rolleyes::lol:

The point you seem to be missing is that 2.5 Men could be paying Charlie Sheen 17 million dollars an episode if they wanted, it still shouldn't affect the pay of the actors on any other CBS show.

I'm not sure how that works, because I was under the impression that it was CBS who cut AJ Cook (and Adam Rodriguez, last year), not the staff of Criminal Minds/CSI:Miami. But the actors' salaries apparently don't come directly from CBS, they come from TPTB of the shows themselves.

If I'm understanding things correctly, CBS pays the budget of each individual show of theirs. And CSI:NY's budget would most likely be a lot larger than 2.5 Men's because as a comedy show with zero special effects and less than three sets an episode (and only a half-hour show at that, meaning the actors have less grueling schedules than those on the hour-long shows), it doesn't need such a big budget. CSI:NY, especially with all their shiny gimmicks and forensic tools (and EDNA :rolleyes:), costs more to make.

However, I'm assuming that once CBS pays that budget, it's up to TPTB of those shows to decide how to split it, and what to spend it on individually. I'd imagine a lot of the budget for 2.5 Men goes to Charlie Sheen's salary, but the only actors in all of CBS that this would affect is Charlie Sheen's co-stars. Not Melina, or anyone else. And as far as I know, none of CS's co-stars have complained (maybe they have, I wouldn't know 'cause I don't follow those stars), and they're pretty much the only ones who'd have a reason to.
 
I'm saying this because I don't think show budgets relate in the way implied
Thanks for the clarification:thumbsup:
Looks like I've lost my crown though.
I'm afraid I couldnt see that, my vision is abit blurred!!:lol:

Which I am enjoying tremendously:thumbsup:

Your right about that, I'm feeling pretty "buff" these days!:lol:


REALLY! GEEZ... I NEVER would have known that if you would not have pointed it out!:eek:


2 cents is more than he is worth let alone 2 mil:lol: I saw ten minutes of the show and I'm good:thumbsup:


Do you really think you would:rolleyes:

The budget for the shows is not linked the way you seem to imply
Sorry about that I should have checked with you first!!:rolleyes::lol:

Yet, ''Charlie supposedly told a friend that he's 'already auditioning women to be Mrs. Sheen Number Next,' '' said the source.
Aragont A**:rolleyes:

LoriK, you have an official warning for trolling with this post. Given that this comes so close to me telling you to knock off the attitude last week, I think you really need to think about whether or not you can post here without being rude and condescending to other posters. If the answer is no, you don't belong at this board. Lose the attitude, or you won't be welcome here any longer. Understood?
 
O.K Top I am wondering if you are referring to my reply to Sarah for her condensending and snide reply to my post? There are more respectful ways to exchange point of view then coming in and pointing out peoples flaws and insult them and then cry foul when they instigate to begin with? I seem to find that pattern well developed with a few posters as I check the different threads. BTW sorry about your vacation being disrupted.Then rules do not apply to those who inject there negativity and personal insult to responses they dont care for ? As for Elwood and the others it wasnt "attitude" we are just bantering back and forth. It seems to me there are a couple of posters who troll from post to post igniting flames and cry foul who seem to gather great pleasure in others being openly reprimanded. I have been in this post sharing thought and conversation already I did not troll in to it and stir up strife. On the contrary. I was minding my business and others have pointed out there dislike for CS so I was not aware that was not permissable.
I don't understand what you are complaining about.
So this in not a personal attack then?
 
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