Well said Elsie. I agree about taking statistics with a grain of salt. As for religious preferences of convicts, I know many Churches have prison ministries (I have even been involved with one some time back) and that could account for the numbers, but I think a more likely explanation would be, a large portion of the population of the US was raised in or around a Church, especially in the south (called the "Bible Belt" for a reason) but never made an actual decision to follow God and his words (they just thought that if my mom is a Christian than I am, I inherited the religion) persons following the Bible more closely would know that is not what the Bible teaches. Therefor probably 95% or more of the people who said that they were one of the Christian "religions" actually only claim that name but do not really know much more than the name. Making these statistics so far off reality that it is beyond laughable. I wanted to say one thing to NicknGrissom: Going to Church does not a Christian make and not going to Church does not an sinner make. Think about all the foreign missionaries in the world, they do not go to an organized "Church" every Sunday because many are learning the language so they can start telling the people about God, and I know that each and every one of them are going to Heaven. For those that are truly searching, I recommend getting a book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell. It is written my a man that was challenged by a friend to prove that what is in the Bible is inaccurate and God does not exist. He spent several years trying, and failed. It is a good read for those that already believe too. If you have some real inquires that you would like to ask me, I would love to share with you what I know and believe, PM me. I will get back to you. This is an interesting discussion by the way. I hope some that are searching find what they need.
thats because you cant prove a negative, the burden of proof is on the positive. can anyone prove to me the flying spaghetti monster doesnt exist? or the invisible pink unicorn? no. and since any existence of god falls in the realm of the supernatural it can never be proven empirically. i could just as easily recommend 'the god delusion' by richard dawkins. the fact that god has never been proven to not exist (or exist for that matter) does not affect my ideas whatsoever. heres what i would like to know, a recent survey in the states put athiests as the least trusted group of people in america, why? many people do not know im an athiest, so do i suddenly become less trustworthy when they find out? this makes no sense to me.
no, I don't think you are any less trustworthy now than I did before I knew you were an atheist. I do not judge you based solely on that. In fact I have not had any experience either way, so as a starting point I trust you unless you prove me wrong. If you noticed I gave the recommendation about the book to those who are truly searching and no, the author did not start out to prove that God did not exist. He started out to prove that the Bible was inaccurate. The Bible is what tells us about God, if the Bible is inaccurate then you don't have to believe anything that it says, if the Bible is in fact accurate than you must draw your own conclusions from that. I didn't want this to get into such a philosophical debate in this thread, but if you would like to debate more, I would love to but in PM. If you are not searching, nothing I say will change what you believe and it is not my job to try to change your thinking, I have not tried to change anyone's thinking here, if you feel that I have I am sorry I did not intend to sound that way. Allmaple I did not intend to insult you in anyway, I am very sorry if it sounded like I was insulting you. I apologize for that. I respect your beliefs, I respect you as a person. The beauty of "freedom of religion" is I have the freedom to believe as I do and you have the same freedom to believe as you do. I can agree to disagree on this subject, but still agree with you in many other things. I am sure we have some areas of interest that are similar and probably some others (that have nothing to do with religion) that are differences. I respect that, relations between two people can be forged from this common ground. I think this discussion is interesting. It is interesting to hear what others think, I don't have to agree with everything that is said and I don't have to change what I believe. I don't feel obligated to change anybody else's beliefs either. Please accept my sincerest apology if you felt that I have stepped on you or your beliefs in any way, it was never my intention to do so.
No you do not becoming anymore trustworthy at least to me I think it has to do with fear. Some Christan groups in the use fear as a weapon. So I'm thinking they have told their congregations that you must fear the atheist so that is the reason they become less trustworthy. You have to fear what you don't trust and how can you trust someone who doesn't believe in god. This is my opinion. I have no prove of this at all. I sometimes find that the so called 'Christan' are the ones to fear. They say they are doing this in God's name or that God helped them. How can God help you hit a home run or score a goal? Was he there holding the bat or hockey stick for you and doing all the work? It's the 'Christan' that has me rolling my eyes and saying 'oh shut up' when they are talking like this. Now as you can see I've used athletes as an example. As far as I know I don't have many day to day dealings with 'Christan' so I can't say that this is all of them. I guess to me the term 'Christan' means 'Born Again Christan'. So please don't take offensive if you are Christan and are not 'Born Again Christan'. Like wise don't take offensive if you are a 'Born Again Christan'. I have not personally met you so I don't know what you are like.
oh my goodness no you didnt insult me! trust me, it is very difficult to insult me. i was discussing not debating, or at least trying to. because i dont agree with people who cite proof or lack there of as a reason for believing/not believing in some kind of god. like i said, its impossible to proove either view so this has nothing to do with why i dont believe. i just wanted to know if people had any ideas on why someone would pick an athiest as the least trustworthy. but i agree with you, a persons actions gain or lose my trust. not their beliefs. the survey was probably biased that way, since the other options were christian, muslim, homosexual, etc. how should any of those influence how trustworthy someone is if i do not know them? eta: Jacquie got in there while i was typing :lol: i think that is a good explanation. a lot of strict fundamentalists come across as 'my way or the highway' and its probably a combination of fear and not understanding someone different than you.
I can't fathom why anyone would label a specific group trustworthy/least trustworthy. It doesn't make sense to me, especially if I don't know that person. Besides, I know some Christians whom I wouldn't trust with a butter knife and some Athiests whom I'd trust with my life in any situation and vice versa. It's not their beliefs/knowledge/education whathaveyou that I concentrate on, but their individual actions. It wouldn't make a difference to me whether they were Athiest/Christian/Muslim/A talking green potato etc. but how they treated me and others. As per the statistics--it's the very reason I mentioned 'what ifs' in regard to their questions, because it could change the entire stat table. A lot of stats out there are so biased, it's laughable. _Hush_, very good question. Why I believe in God is because, well, I just do. I can't really explain it beyond that and I'm not even going to attempt to give evidence for/against it because it wouldn't change my belief either way. Someone could come along and say "by the way, we just proved Zeus/Alah/Buddah/Osiris etc. exists, so pshhh on your 'God'." and I'd still believe there was God. :lol: Of course that doesn't mean I'm going to poopoo on anyone else's belief system. For all I know, there could be a Zeus/Alah/Buddah/Osiris/Nothing-Out-There. To each his/her own.
To quickly answer _Hush_'s question, Why do I believe in God? or in my case Allah..Well I think Geni gave that best answer IMO to that question, I believe in God because well I just do...Its hard to explain above and beyond that...I suppose it partly to do with my religious upbringing but I know sometimes that can backfire and make people not believe in God...I don't I finding this kinda of hard to explain but I just feel God's presence all around me...and I know that probably a laughable thought for some of you who are atheist but thats just how I feel *shrugs*
I just read it, and thought: Hey,that's the perfect anwer But I need more! So therefore this question: could you accept it if (and that's a gigantic, over the top, Hollywood letters high 'if') it would be proven that no god exists. Would you believe it, or still (need to) believe in something? I know I'm bugging you guys with questions, but know that it is not my intention to convert you or make you change your minds about anything. I just never had such honest answers on those questions before so I'm a little enthusiastic about this Adorable_Crazy, you could answer my last question: Why do you believe in God? Soph, I didn't see your post there I don't see it as a laughable thought at all. I know it's hard to explain, but I wanna know how it feels like.
You are correct some Christian groups do use fear as a "Weapon" but not in how you are using it. Usually it is "you better be good or you will go to hell" kind of thing, using hell or God's wrath to scare people into believing or doing good things. I have been raised in the Church all my life, I even went to 2 years of Bible school and studied the Bible more in depth than most Christians will ever study it. I have never heard any one tell me, teach me, or express in any way shape or form that I or anyone should fear an atheist/ someone from another religion, quite the opposite, I have been taught to help them, care for them, and treat them with dignity, and respect just like I want to be treated. I do know there are a few denominations who tend to be more critical of the non-Christian, but it is not because of fear, or that they have been taught to fear them. It is more they feel more "righteous" (an attitude that I abhor in Christians and non-Christians alike) unfortunately it is these people who tend to give all Christians a bad name (my opinion people with this attitude should spend more time reading the Bible themselves and rather than judging others, I have a few choice verses I could give them.) this might sound a little harsh in my criticism of other Christians but, trust me other Christians do not see them as the "spiritual" ones among us. Jacquie I am saddened by the negative experiences you have had and the ideas you have formed because of them. Please do not judge all Christians by that, I do not believe that you have to fear us. Honestly I do not completely disagree with you on the athletes who bring out the God card whenever it is convenient or it makes them look good. In actuality there are probably many more who never even mention it to the press, about God helping us, no one will ever be able to explain it to you, it is impossible to explain it so you can understand it, it is like trying to describe what a kiwi fruit tastes to someone who has never tasted it or even seen it. You might be surprised how many Christians you do have contact with in your day to day life...Not all draw attention to them selfs in a negative way. Sorry that went so long, I guess I have some "hot button issues myself" I will 'shut up' now. _Hush_ if you have any questions PM me I can try to answer all you ask. As to your question, why do I believe in God? This is going to sound crazy but I have His love letter. I have a history book that tells me about His love for me, for mankind. I can't explain it simply here,...
Well yeah I would still believe in God but let me just say I don't think its a matter of needing to believe in god for some people, I think its a just that they believe it god and not that they need to believe in god but i get your point , I mean there is already scientific evidence that may prove that god(s) don't exist...but that has changed my belief in god so IF it would be porven that god didn't exist I wouldn't just turn my back on my religion and my beliefs I would still believe in god...sorry if none of this is making sense and I'm rambling first day working at my new job and my minds already turned to goo :lol: Your questions don't bug me at all they just make me think about alot of stuff that noone has really questioned me about so I thank you for asking those questions again apologise for the rambling and not making sense
im just enjoying it because ive never had such a long discussion about the existance of god without being told im going to burn in hell. its quite refreshing actually i actually think this makes sense. since its such a personal thing i dont think one side can ever fully understand the other, since they dont feel that way. in 6 years of catholic school and 18 years going to church every sunday (afterwards my parents stopped making me go) i never felt anything. well, except boredom to be honest.
I can't really answer that as I don't believe that it is possible to 'prove' that God doesn't exist. The Bible itself doesn't answer the question of whether God exists, it always assumes that he does and God himself isn't visible to the naked eye so no 'direct proof' in that way can be found therefore the question itself is strange to me... What convinces people individually of God's existence is their personal experience of God through Jesus. And that simply cannot be disproved.
Interesting question. In all honesty, I would feel slightly more lonely in my own self if it were proven that no god(s) exists. For me, there are two kinds of relationships: My tangible relationships between people, animals, earth and technology. Then on a higher level of 'self', would be my spiritual relationship. I think if it were proven that there was nothing but what we can see/hear/smell/touch/taste etc. that spiritual relationship would definitely crack a bit and I wouldn't feel as complete as I do now. I know, it's silly to say but that's just how I am. Would I believe it if someone were to hand me unbiased, irrefutable evidence? Yes. Would I be able to live with it and accept it? Yep. There's plenty here that I have faith in, for example: Man kind, (which has been waning lately. Gosh, the news depresses me sometimes) family, science, - which I'm not 'exchanging' one for the other, I've always been a science nerd - education/knowledge, etc. So it wouldn't be a huge huge loss for me. I still don't think the existence of god(s) will ever be proved/disproved, (like Elsie said) but it's an interesting 'what if' question and definitely made me think...moreso than I usually do when I'm here. :lol: Exactly. Bug all you wish! Most of us joined because we enjoy a healthy discussion/debate sometimes. Same here. That and anger, since the Catholic church hasn't been - in my eyes at least - very holy lately. But at any rate, my personal beliefs developped away from the church to begin with.
It seems to me that a lot of people here who believe in God were born into a religious family. Do any of you guys think that you'd believe if you were born into an atheist family? I've come across very few religious people who's parents aren't equally if not more religious. In fact, I can only think of one girl off the top of my head.