Eric/Calleigh storyline -- why we dislike it. Part 2 **spoilers**

Discussion in 'CSI: Miami' started by mjszud, Apr 18, 2010.

  1. Jag Lady

    Jag Lady Lab Technician

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    Pretty much the same thing in WISC. These two totally upstaged Ryan, trashing what could've been a good episode. Some would argue that the other characters got this much time, that much time, or that much time. Well sorry, but I'm not sitting there with a stopwatch trying to measure who got how many minutes or seconds. CSI Miami's gone. It's now The Eric and Calleigh Show.

    This is why, as I get more Miami dvd's, I don't think I'll go past S4. S5 was when it all started in earnest.
     
  2. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    WISC was totally ruined for me because of that opening scene. To this day I can't rationalize what the intent was. I still fully intend to find time to edit that so that all E/C is removed and I can watch the scenes with Ryan the focus as it should have been.

    Yeah, I'm done buying the "sets" as well. I have season 5, but it's rarely, if ever, taken out. I record the very limited episodes that I want to keep on my DVR. But no more buying the sets. There simply aren't sufficient episodes with my favorite characters to justify the cost. And the bells and whistles on the sets aren't worth it either.
     
  3. MiamiWolfe

    MiamiWolfe Pathologist

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    It isn't as if Jonathan Togo couldn't carry an episode by himself. All E/C, all the time:brickwall::censored:



    I bought five, six and seven (I want 3 and 4) but I highly doubt I'll buy 8. Not enough quality Ryan, Frank, and Natalia and too much nomance for my tastes.
     
  4. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    He could, darlin'. Without breakin' a sweat. And so could Eva and so could Rex. David's already proved he can. It's just no one is giving them the material to work with or a decent chance.

    WISC is a perfect example. What an intense, dramatic story for Ryan. He's being tortured and truly, without a doubt, the hero of the moment in those scenes as he resists everything he's being asked to do.

    And what a job Jon is doing with it! :thumbsup:

    But he isn't allowed to truly bring the viewer into his torment and fully invest them in what he's going through because ...

    **OMG! We just HAVE to see Eric and Calleigh's morning ritual! :rolleyes:

    **Everyone just HAS to know they they had sex last night! :rolleyes:

    **Those who think it's worth looking at just HAVE to see Rodriguez without his shirt on! :rolleyes:

    ... and making sure that everyone knows that "IT" happened again :)rolleyes::rolleyes:) is so much more important that allowing the viewer to connect with Ryan and what he's going through and what he's feeling! The priorities here just boggle the mind!

    And they wonder why there is a growing group of fans who resent Eric and Calleigh "moments". :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  5. MiamiWolfe

    MiamiWolfe Pathologist

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    IMHO, Jon is one, if not the most talented actors on the show, and to have one of his very few times in the spotlight ruined because of this unnecessary "filler", just frustrates the hell out of me.:brickwall::censored: As you said Delynn he was knocking out of the park, and then BAM!!......Not much respect there.:scream:

    So true, so true.

    I guess I can't understand why the writers even feel the need to step on other characters'/actors' eppies with our constant reminder of E/C presence on the show. Do they think the eppie or another actor isn't strong enough to carry the whole thing? Is it what they think everyone or the majority wants? Or is it just the fact that this writing staff needs an overhaul? Are they incapable or unwilling to write an episode without the nomance being in at least one or more scenes?:confused::confused: My head is spinning:(
     
  6. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    It would be awesome to have an episode solely for Ryan instead of adding e/c to it. Because of their "nomance", I can't even watch repeats of 'WISC'. It pisses me off too much to see how he was treated by those two -- not to mention the early morning e/c bathroom scene had me rolling my eyes so far back in my head I thought I'd fall over & pass out.
    They looked like "roomies" more than lovers.

    This applies to Natalia as well. Although e/c didn't actually disrupt her hearing loss storyline, and while I liked how they used her aid to discover Eric's investigation, it would be SO NICE to have someone highlighted without it going back to how it effects Eric (or Calleigh)! :scream:

    If I'm stuck with those 2 then ok, I don't like it I never will, but the major storylines do not have to revolve around them, and other character storylines don't have to effect them. For once I'd like to see Eric and Calleigh riding the coat-tails of Ryan, Natalia & Horatio. Give those 3 the major storylines for the new season! It won't do any harm in having Eric and Calleigh just "work" & do thier jobs while the others get some juicy storylines. If need be, then have Eric or Calleigh play off the others -- seperatly as INDIVIDUALS -- not as an "item" -- show that they care about something/someone other than themselves. I might actually be able to respect them slightly if that were to happen.

    Eric had a chance to be somewhat redeemed in the finale -- he had the chance to show that he cares about the team, but that went right out the window when he decided to leave Walter on the floor & run off tripping over passed out labtechs in a frantic search for flippin' Calleigh. :rolleyes:
    Those 2 can't see anything beyond themselves -- how it affects them personally is the only thing important to them, even when it comes to thier own relationship. Calleigh looks for what she can benefit from her partner, & Delko does the same.
    Am I the only one seeing that?
    Honestly. Go back the last 3 seasons, it showed. Delko had a bullet in the head & everything went back to HIS feelings & how everything affected HIM....did it matter to him that Calleigh didn't feel the same? Calleigh wanted to be with another man -- she did that regardless of Eric, she was only out for herself. Until....her life starts to crumble & she goes for who's there for HER. Eric flips out last season & again, he doesn't consider Calleigh, he leaves Miami because HE can't handle it. And we're supposed to believe that they act this way because they love each other? :wtf: Calleigh only fears she'll freakin' die alone, & Eric heaven forbid can't take care of "Mr. Winky" on his own. They both disgust me.
     
  7. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    :guffaw:I know what you mean. How anyone finds scenes with those two sexy is just so far beyond my ability to grasp. :confused:

    I don't know if I'm going to be able to watch it to edit - except it might be theraputic to perform the act of editing out those E/C moments! :thumbsup:

    When WISC first aired I can remember being to over the top angry that I had to try and watch what was happening to Ryan while filtering those two and their pretenious "watch us try oh so hard to look sexy and fail miserably" moments. :scream:

    I actually was impressed with how they used Natalia's hearing aid to identify Delko's wire. Very clever.

    But you're right, MJ. It seems every character's storyline, no matter who it is, has to somehow connect to Delko, Calleigh or both.

    I agree. E/C, both together and seperately, have had more than their fair share of time. If it isn't about them directly from the start, they find a way to bring it around and make it about them. I have no doubt that whatever exit they come up with for Jesse, the last thing we will see is E/C and how it affects their world.

    And by doing this they have made them out to be two of the most selfish characters on television.

    And I would feel the same way if it were any other character or combination of characters that were receiving such unrelenting focus. For a couple of seasons they were way too focused on Horatio and his mafia storylines. They turned him into someone I didn't recoginze and quite frankly I came close walking away. It was the introduction of Kyle that made me hang in there a little longer.

    Other than Horatio, Eric and Calleigh, we haven't had a chance to get tired of any of the others.

    That's because those labrats aren't part of the "core cast!" ;) (Walter hasn't been there long enough - he's a newbie - Watch yer back, Walter!)

    No, you're not! You're just putting it into words perfectly! :)


    That's part of the destruction of Calleigh required to make this nomance work. Delko has always been self-involved and disrespectful to women, IMO. But Calleigh cared about others and was focused on taking care of the victims as well as caring about her fellow team members. No longer. With the exception of her boy-toy, she doesn't give a hoot about any of them.

    And it's too late for me now. I wouldn't buy it at this point. Calleigh trying to look like she cares about Horatio in any way after not talking to him for 3 seasons? Not a chance. Her caring about Ryan after the way she's been treating him for the past 3 seasons? No way am I that gullible.

    I will never buy any kind of a Delko/Ryan friendship. Not after the way Delko has treated Ryan all these years. No way.

    The last 3.5 seasons have made Calleigh and Delko out to be two of the most selfish, self-centered characters on television. Not only do they not care about the victims or their fellow team members, how much they care about each other is qualified for Calleigh by who else she has in her life (Delko won be default) and for Delko what else more interesting he might have going. This isn't love. This is nothing and no one better to do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  8. mayra1990

    mayra1990 Prime Suspect

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  9. mjszud

    mjszud Captain

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    Please don't post things like that in this thread.


    Well said darlin', & I agree. Calleigh is 'done' in my book. Every tie with the teammembers has been severed for the sake of this nomance. For me, tptb can't fix the relationships she once had with Ryan and Horatio, and at one time I was so fond of both duos -- it's terribly sad. But after the last 3 seasons, I'm not able to buy much of anything when it comes to Calleigh -- she's so far lost, it's just disappointing.

    When it comes to Eric -- TPTB would really have to be creative & honest in their writing if they wanted to convince me he cares about anything other than what's below the belt. Sad, because at one time I honestly saw that he genuinly cared for his teammates & the job. With Eric something has always stuck out to me: he takes & takes, but never gives. I was always hoping one day we'd see an enormous change in him -- the "change" we did see is not one I buy, nor can I accept him the way he is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  10. Court

    Court Prime Suspect

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    I can't even think about WISC without getting royally irritated. The first time I saw that ep, I think I tossed a throw pillow at my television. :scream: Ryan keeps getting the shaft and I won't even get started on the whole Horatio as a secondary character-thing. It will drive me to drink.

    I've actually come to the conclusion that the writers and TPTB are getting their storylines and plots from bad E/C fanfic. :rolleyes: It is the only plausible explanation. I can totally picture it: The writers are tapped out of anything resembling originality so they lurk on fanfic websites. :p
     
  11. Jag Lady

    Jag Lady Lab Technician

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    You're not alone, mjszud. Although there were other unbelievable things in WISC (that discussion's for another thread), the E/C cliquishness was the worst! Those two act more like the "popular kids" in junior high than law enforcement professionals. Ryan had been a part of that team for 4 seasons by then. Will the football hero and his girl EVER stop seeing him as Speed's replacement? If I were Ryan I'd certainly be thinking about transferring to a lab in which co-workers who depended on each other for their lives might be a little more civil.

    At the risk of driving everybody to drink, I'll only say that I watched Stalkerazzi in S2 the other day. If tptb were going to have an E/C romance, it might have worked better during those seasons, imo. Both Eric and Calleigh smiled. Everybody kept their clothes on. If there was any hanky panky, it was only talked about, and then very little. When Delko and Natalia had their affair in "Skeletons" (Natalia's pregnancy scare), we knew what happened. tptb didn't seem to need to be so in-your-face about things.
     
  12. miamirocks

    miamirocks Lab Technician

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    Man, are we safe anywhere? I just went into the Calleigh/Emily thread, and clicked on two video links to the Season 7 extras - my gosh! All they talked about was E/C! They kept talking about "developing relationships" w/the team, but they were all scenes w/Eric and Cal. They try to talk about the team as a family, but it's always E/C all the time - that's what I'm tired of. They call E/C "inevitable" b/c they work side by side under such dangerous conditions - ummm - hello, they ALL do! :wtf: :brickwall: So I guess every character will end up shagging every other character by the end of the series b/c they're all in such danger together ... :rolleyes: :scream:

    I think these interviews irritate me more than anything else. TPTB try to sell the fact that the team is a "family," but all they're pushing is the E/C ship, and to hell w/their relationships w/everyone else. Sure, Eric and H still have the "bro" thing, but even that was isolating. Every relationship they try to make "special" always ends up isolating the rest of the team, leaving them out. Meanwhile, the normal, naturally developing relationships are relegated to the seventh level of hell (ie: Ryan and Cal (wow, is she cold to him!) and H and Cal (don't you sometimes wish we all could talk to our bosses as infrequently as she does - like NEVER!) And that's just naming a few.) :brickwall:

    OK, I promised to try to tone things down a bit - these interviews just got me hoppin' mad again. TPTB really believe all CSI fans dig this relationship - I just don't get it.
     
  13. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    Thanks for the info, miamirocks. EDIT: I know that the complaints in another thread by supporters of the nomance are that comments by those who dislike it have flowed over into other threads. But I honestly feel it is no different than the pro-E/C factions. Their love of the nomance and overwhelming, not-stop support of it, is also in every thread. I stay away from their shipper thread, and the Procter and Rodriguez threads because it's a guarantee that it will be a primary topic of conversation and it's not what I care to see.

    I don't avoid the episode threads or other threads where I feel that the fans who dislike the nomance, when the subject arises and it is appropriate (which also seems to be in one's perspective), have a right to voice their opinion on the subject.

    So the continued focus on E/C in season 7 even flows over into the season 7 extras! :rolleyes: Your warning just confirms my decision NOT to purchase anything after season 5 (and I should have left season 5 on the shelf).

    If the extas include ANY discussion that eludes to a focus on the "team" or positive relationships between team, it's bunk. Pure and simple. And it's really pretty insulting when you think about it. I would hazard a guess that even some E/C supporters would agree that there is very little if any "family" feeling going on with this "team" - even if you put aside E/C and the fact that a lot of fans feel that the focus has been E/C to the exclusion of everyone else. TPTB indicating any kind of family dynamic, even a dysfunctional one, exists with these people assumes we are blind or not very bright.

    Oh give me a break! :wtf: The fact that they work together and under dangerous conditions is NO excuse for Calleigh sleeping with a subordinate. Watching how that relationship has affected Eric and Calleigh's credibility, integrity and professionalism (negatively in the extreme, IMO), not to mention how it's affect the team dynamtic is exactly WHY most law enforcement agencies have, and strongly enforce, a non-fraternization rule.

    They have broken more rules and used more questionable judgment since they started having sex, then ever before (though I don't believe that Delko was EVER very competent or responsible. Certainly he wasn't dependable.). This is why I believe the E/C nomance has destroyed the characters.

    In season 7, Calleigh and Horatio's relationship was no better than it had been since season 5. Their rare forced interactions were painful to watch and I'd rather they let interactions between Horatio and Calleigh die. The amazing chemistry that existed between those two characters in the first 2 seasons has long ago died. For the love of god let it rest in peace - and let those of us who mourn it's lost rest in peace.

    Eric and Calleigh's treatment of Ryan in season 7 was hardly what I would consider "working on relationships", unless your definition of "working" is being mean, intolerant, judgmental and basically working to destroy whatever relationship existed. Eric has always treated Ryan badly. That, along with a plethora of other irritating things about Eric, has NEVER endeared him to me. I was happy to see Eric go and very sad to hear he would be returning. Calleigh jumped on board with Eric's treatment of Ryan as soon as she starting sleeping with Eric - althought her path to being holier than the rest and allowed to pass judgment on everyone had already begun.

    While Horatio and Eric have a relationship, there has always been something about it that rubs me wrong. Maybe because I just don't like Delko. He's a wimp, IMO. Always has been. Everyone covers for him, including Horatio, but most assuredly Calleigh. I kept waiting for Eric to step and tell Horatio to butt out when he took over caring for Marisol. But, typical of Eric, he wimped out and in the end didn't man-up and assert himself. Maybe if he had we wouldn't have had to suffer through that god-awful Horatio and Marisol relationship! But like Marisol, Eric is needy, whiny and looking for someone to take care of him.

    And Calliegh is the perfect woman for that task because, IMO, she comes off as making damn sure she's in charge of any relationship she's in. And I seen sufficient evidence to have me truly convinced that Eric is spinless.

    So Natalia and Frank were practically non-existant in season 7. Eric and Calleigh, when they weren't in bed, spent all their time flirting or kicking the crap out of Ryan. Horatio just seems to let the whole freaking team go off however they want. That's NOT working on forming a team and cementing their relationships with each other. The only team members who were "relating" (if you want to call it that) were, of course, Eric and Calleigh. So again, you have E/C supporters cheering and those who love the characters who've been thrown into the background so that E/C can take centerstage, frustrated and wondering when they will FINALLY get the chance to see the character they care about. So nothing ever changes.

    Yeah, they are pretty deaf. It tells you that they DO NOT hear what a lot of fans are saying, and have been saying for 4 years. At this point they are simply in denial. The fans who don't like E/C have, at the very least, become much more vocal. So if they say they aren't hearing that not everyone is buying E/C, they are simply lying. Even Rodrigurez admitted we're out here. That means someone is hearing us - althought it speaks volumes about how much they care what fans think that they are just acknowledging a faction of fans who have been around since the inception of E/C.

    And the interivews are usually the problem. For the most part it seems they have been geared for the past 4 years to sevice only one group of fans. Trying to get information about any character besides Eric and Calleigh is hopeless. Even when the other actors manage to get an interview, they are only asked about Eric and Calleigh - not about their own characters. Which isn't surprising when you consider the other actors really don't have anything to say regarding their characters - except to verbalize what they would love to be able to see for their characters. TPTB don't seem to remember there are other "core cast."

    Makes it a little tough to buy their explanation for getting rid of Eddie. That, along with the fact that I've been lied to too many times in the past, tells me they are again blowing smoke up my ass with the "core cast" statements.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  14. Jag Lady

    Jag Lady Lab Technician

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    I'm with you about the "getting lied to". I think that's the worst. Wasn't Eric supposed to make some major decision about their "relationship"? (Don't worry, I'll spare you the nosepicking and barfing smileys)

    Considering they threw everyone else overboard, maybe the BETTER start doing things with the "core cast". They might start finding better offers.
     
  15. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    I've been almost praying for this talented group of actors that they move on and find something more worthy of their time and effort.

    David, Rex, Jon and Eva are proven talents who have been relegated to nothing more than background to a storyline that just isn't working for a lot of fans.

    You know, a lot of us have suggested in frustration that they spin E/C off into it's own show. Seriously. If they truly believe these two have a strong fanbase that is so desirous of seeing them and only them, then spin them off. Give them their own show and see if it flies.

    And let the David, Rex, Jon and Eva get back to business - hopefully with a whole new set of writers. Send the current crop with E/C for their new show. They all appear to only want to write for those characters anyway.
     

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