Why Lindsay REALLY Must Go (Pt. 2)

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Top41 said:
Yes indeed! I never thought of Sara as just a 'love interest for Grissom'--right from the get-go, Jorja made the character her own. Yes, she always had feelings for Grissom, and sometimes that affected her development, but I never felt like those feelings defined who she was.
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Thats really amazing I truely never guessed that that was the intention from the get-go :eek: I assumed that it was an organic development as it seemed so natural developing as it did after Gils failed romance with Lady Heather :cool: ... whereas as you say Lindsay is completely defined by her attachment to Danny or should that be his attachment to her being as shes virtually a non-entity alone :devil:
 
The difference between GSR and D/L is the length of development. It took them seven seasons of development before it became canon. And another thing, they weren't sold as the show. With D/L, it's always about them. It's as if the writers write the show around them. That Danny SHOULD ALWAYS have a sweet little scene with Lindsey or that Lindsey should bump against Danny from time to time. Bah!

Jorja made Sara as a character who can survive on her own with or without Grissom. Sara can share the scene with Nick or Catherine or even Sofia and she can rock it out. As for Lindsey, put her beside Adam and heck, AJ does a helluva better job. He can stammer a line or two and it's brilliant. Anna/Lindsey, however, can kill a whole scene by just being in the frame.

She's definitely like a bad cliche out of fan fiction--the new girl who comes in and impresses everyone and bags the hot guy while getting over her oh-so-tragic past.
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Impresses everyone? The only thing she did to impress anyone was when she tackled that guy in "Zoo York".
 
I wrote down a (rough) transcript of everything Jorja said in the interview, and here's the whole part where she mentioned the thing with Grissom:

Jorja said:
From the very beginning, the inception of my character coming onto the show of CSI and them deciding to add this character, there's this little piece of paper that you get when you go to audition for these roles and I think the first sentence said 'love interest for Grissom', so from day one for me kinda going to the audition, this was a story that hung there in the ethers(?) and then as we started to go into season one and season two and realized that we were going to have a season three, I think there was interest on everybody's part of not to, so to speak, blow our wad too soon. You tell this story and then where do you go from there? It could be, if we were lucky enough, which it seemed might be happening, there'd be years of awkwardness after the break-up or, you know, stuff we didn't want to play for three seasons, so I think that it was kind of wise to hold back on it...
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I think that's the big thing, really--they planned it from the beginning, but they knew it would be better to hold off because then what? Once you hook up, what's left? Happily ever after only works in fairy tales.

I guess it has a lot to do with the fact that Sara had more going for her than that, and Lindsay just doesn't seem to.

"Zoo York" is apparently going to be on SpikeTV tonight. My first thought when 1CSIMfan told me it would be on was: "back when I was so optimistic about Lindsay"--and I was! I miss that, actually, being excited about the new character and assuming that it would be awesome. Two years later--not so much.

Something that just came to mind after reading the previous post mentioning Lady Heather--even though they intended for Grissom and Sara to get together, both characters had other relationships in the meantime. With Danny and Lindsay--they never implied Lindsay dating anyone, and the only times they mentioned Danny having a girlfriend, it was in a negative way ("Dancing with the Fishes" and "Jamalot" come to mind). There was meant to be a little moment between Danny and Angell that got cut out--why? I'm not saying it had to stay in, but why couldn't these two still have other relationships? People date even if they might like someone else--it's ridiculous to think that they could only date faceless people (if anybody at all) before getting together. I'm sorry, but do they think the fans might not believe it if they see them with other people?

Oh wait, yeah, that might be true. [/bitch]

ETA: I take forever to post. :lol: chaostheory, good post. Interesting that you'd mention "Zoo York"--I think our minds are melding. :lol:

I think it's interesting that I've seen a lot of people mention Adam and compare him to Lindsay--they're not characters that should really be comparable. She's a main character and a CSI, he's a (previously) recurring character and a lab tech--they shouldn't be in the same league. And well, I don't think they are, but I don't think Lindsay is the better of the two. She might get more screentime and be a more "important" character in technical terms, but when you get right down to it...
 
Wow, the GSr fans must have gone loco over that piece of information. :lol: But see, that just proves that even when a character has been designated from the start to be another character's love interest ... it can still be done well.

The writers of the original CSI were very wise in allowing Sara to grow as an independant character and let her be her own person long before her relationship with Grissom started. Heck, Grissom himself got tons of independant character development, so when they finally got together, neither of them were mere plot devices. The relationship was just a sidestory in the background that didn't take away deserved attention from the other characters or ruin the show.

You'd think the writers of CSI:NY would learn from that, wouldn't ya? :p

Unfortunately at this point, even if the writers suddenly decided to develop Lindsay's character like crazy, it's too late. Way too late. Thanks to the last two seasons, her character's here and there and nowhere at the same time. They wanna fix her now, they have to get her off the relationship with Danny ASAP to let her grow on her own and for Danny to return to his former glorious self. And not be a freakin' prop anymore. What kind of main regular character needs a prop in the first place?!
 
Unfortunately at this point, even if the writers suddenly decided to develop Lindsay's character like crazy, it's too late. Way too late. Thanks to the last two seasons, her character's here and there and nowhere at the same time. They wanna fix her now, they have to get her off the relationship with Danny ASAP to let her grow on her own and for Danny to return to his former glorious self. And not be a freakin' prop anymore. What kind of main regular character needs a prop in the first place?!
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What I like actually, is that they were about to continue developing Danny's character separately from the Lindsey thing. Come to think if it, she's not really a development on his part since she is using him for her own "development". Albeit Danny didn't grow much in the 3rd season, the NY writers still had the chance of introducing/continuing his "brothers" issue. That, for me, was the only non-Lindsey thing they did for him last season. It proves that even without Lindsey, Danny can grow.

And I cannot say the same the other way around. I think nobody could. Without Danny, who is Lindsey? What does she contribute? Why is she even there?

ETA: I take forever to post. chaostheory, good post. Interesting that you'd mention "Zoo York"--I think our minds are melding.
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LOL, you know it. Hhahaha.... They'll be showing Zoo York, I think here as well, come CSI Supreme Sunday two weeks from now. I liked Lindsey in Zoo York, must admit. But after that, the push for D/L became so obvious, it was almost sickening.

As far Adam, for me he's the comic relief. He's the quirky lab tech who does a great job, everybody's go-to guy, and he manages to crack jokes while at it. With all that, he still exudes this coolness in him; sometimes he even looks like a little boy -- especially in the presence of Mac. So for AJ, to pull ALL of that off... is great.
 
If I can just comment on the D/L and GSR. I think the success of the Grissom and Sarah relationship is that it was never thrown into the viewers faces it was adult and mature. It never got tacky and overbearing unlike D/L it was always a case of are they or aren't they a couple. It kept the viewer guessing about it. And it never diluted either characters like what D/L has done to our boy Danny who became a whimpering idiot in the presence of Miss Montana. I've sat through season 2 and now season 3 cringing at this relationship because it is so dumb and melodramatic catering for the younger especially female viewers.
In the beginning of CSI NY it had been a dark and moody kind of show not a lot of laughs going on very serious and down to business and personally I loved it like that. Then of course it changed because people complained that it was to dark and the creators brightened the show up. Still the show was fine and then I think the powers that be tried to zoom in to get the younger viewers to watch so they slap Danny and Lindsay together simply because they had off screen chemistry. Good for CSI NY you have your younger fan fiction girls now with a total diregard for everyone else who don't care when Danny and Lindsay had their first bonk on a pool table (really I don't care) and if this trend continues with the dull Lindsay CSI NY is going to be losing a lot of viewers myself included.
 
chaostheory08 said:
Without Danny, who is Lindsey? What does she contribute? Why is she even there?
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She has a vagina. :)

althea said:
In the beginning of CSI NY it had been a dark and moody kind of show not a lot of laughs going on very serious and down to business and personally I loved it like that.
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It was and it wasn't. There was still a lot of humor in it. And after "Officer Blue" I think it was, the blue filter was gone too. So the show wasn't significantly less 'dark' from the end of season one to the beginning of season two--but the lab was much brighter, the clothes were brighter, and they advertised it that way. It was a different look, but it's not like the show was hard to see in the first season, which is how I see a lot of people describe it. I wish some of them would actually watch it before telling me what it looked like. [/rant] (Sorry, got away from me a bit :lol:)

The thing that bugs me a bit is how they did the total overhaul between S1 and S2 because it was too 'dark'--but if you look at a lot of the morgue scenes from Vegas this past season, they were literally dark and greenish (going off of the few episodes I saw, of course). It's okay for Vegas but not for NY? :rolleyes:

I didn't really appreciate Aiden until she was gone--after Lindsay came and I've seen the big honkin' clusterdoodle that's developed, I can't help wondering why I didn't love Aiden more at the time. The interaction with Danny is only one comparison, but it's major. They flirted and teased each other, but they could still be professional--and Danny wasn't required to lose his own characterization from time to time to accommodate Aiden's.

they slap Danny and Lindsay together simply because they had off screen chemistry.
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Personally, I think somebody pulled that explanation out of their ass. Character=/=actor and vice versa. Actors who hate each other can pull of a convincing romance on-screen (if they're good). And a character is more than just the actor with a different name--they're supposed to be completely different people, and romantic chemistry isn't always a given. Rewatching "Zoo York", I really don't see how I'm supposed to believe that there was some 'spark' between those two in that episode. :confused:
 
Danny and Lindsay were thrown together because the actors were clumsy and bumped into each other. That's hardly "chemistry." I don't know about Anna, but Carmine seems to be a bit of a klutz--he's tripped over a radio and on stairs on camera. Poor guy--he's really paying for it now. :lol: :(

Danny does have wonderful development outside of Lindsay, and I think that is a part of why the Dindsay pairing is so disappointing. Danny didn't need a romance to make him a character; Danny didn't need any "props." Why, after two years, does Lindsay?

And even now, with the spoilers coming out...the only development that's hinted at for her is that she gets to go to a haunted house with Danny and react personally to yet another young female victim. :rolleyes:
 
I watched Zoo York last night and am totally depressed. I liked Lindsay in it - she had so much potential. Alas, I know the end. There was a little bit of tension (potential dislike) between D/L - if they had gone with that, both characters would have had a chance at much more interesting developement.
 
Faylinn said:
I didn't really appreciate Aiden until she was gone--after Lindsay came and I've seen the big honkin' clusterdoodle that's developed, I can't help wondering why I didn't love Aiden more at the time. :
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I agree with you all the way on that one Fay. Aiden was amazing and the way they killed off her character was totally unfair now if they could only kill off Lindsay in the same way I wouldn't bat an eyelid in fact party is at my place to celebrate that one.
 
Top said:
Poor guy--he's really paying for it now.
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And we have to pay for it too… :(

I started watching NY regularly at the end of season one, so I wasn’t too bothered that Aiden left and when they introduced Lindsay that was okay for me. But after a few episodes she started to really annoy me. And after watching season one on dvd… well, I wish Aiden would have stayed.

They just started season three over here with PWM and NWILL and Lindsay is nothing but annoying in both episodes. However I thought that I can stand her a little better in the dubbed German version.
That said, normally I hate dubbing. I think it takes away an important part of the actor’s work. And IMO, as good as the dubbing might be, it can never be as good as the original actor’s voice. I think it is really sad that the German actress who dubs Lindsay does a better job selling emotion than Anna is able to.
 
That is funny, but not totally surprising. Lindsay's voice is grating--she volleys between whiny and righteous.

I agree, macpeyfan--if they'd gone with continued hostility between Danny and Lindsay, it might have been more believable. Danny resenting Lindsay for taking Aiden's place was totally in character, and I would have liked to see that play out for longer. And the writers could have given Lindsay credibility by having her call him out on it and deal with it in a mature way.

And I miss Aiden, too. She fit so much better with the team than Lindsay ever will. There was a real cohesiveness in season one that's been missing since Lindsay showed up.
 
LivingEnd said:
They just started season three over here with PWM and NWILL and Lindsay is nothing but annoying in both episodes. However I thought that I can stand her a little better in the dubbed German version.
That said, normally I hate dubbing. I think it takes away an important part of the actor’s work. And IMO, as good as the dubbing might be, it can never be as good as the original actor’s voice. I think it is really sad that the German actress who dubs Lindsay does a better job selling emotion than Anna is able to.
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It happened the same to me. I couldn't really stand Lindsay in spanish, but at least, even if she's showing her scrunch face, the dubbing actress try to add some emotion with her voice and is a little better. It was the moment I started watching episodes in english (the beggguining of the third season) when I really started to wish she would be fired. It changed from a character I couldn't end up liking to the chracter I absolutely hated.

Aiden was a character very loved and now is very missed. Her relationship with the rest of the cast was really great, lets not forget she was the one to put Danny and Flack in their place, something Lindsay would never do.
 
poison girl said:

Aiden was a character very loved and now is very missed. Her relationship with the rest of the cast was really great, lets not forget she was the one to put Danny and Flack in their place, something Lindsay would never do.
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Aiden, Danny, and Flack all had great chemistry together..i could easily buy that the three were good friends, and if any of them ended up in a relationship together, it could be real and believable. This D/L thing was fake from the begining...
 
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