Why Lindsay Must Stay!

[Top41]

roximonoxide said:
That being said, even if you want to argue that the show needs "lightheartedness" and "freshness" and this somehow comes across in her small town, middle-America look, I find it hard to understand how she was so "fresh" when her personality was a patch work of test characters that seem to be the writers and Anna's version of 'throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-hope-something-sticks'. And I seriously struggle with the notion that she intended to be 'lighthearted' when they decide to unnecessarily cram some unjustified angst down our throats with her little emotional meltdowns and and woe-is-me flashbacks.

Exactly. Calleigh is a great example of a character who lightens up the show she's in and still manages to have a deep emotional core. Does that mean Calleigh's all sweetness and light all the time? No, of course not. But she can brighten the room with her smile and she has a natural warmth to her.

I guess that's where I have a hard time seeing that Lindsay brightened the show in any way--she lacks that natural warmth. And not all characters or specifically women have it--Sara wasn't particularly warm, but she certainly added a lot to CSI.

It just feels like a misapplied label to me.

I hear people say she was fresh and different amongst all these "brooding new yorkers" as you put it, but did she not also have her Big Secret, which she spent more than her fair shake of time brooding about?

Yeah, no kidding.

The only thing I can justify as being 'fresh' is that she seems to open up a fresh can of new personality every other episode or when she just wouldn't really fit well with this episodes plot if she were the same girl she was last week.

:lol: That's a valid point, too.

Here's something I was thinking about...is much or most of Lindsay's bad rap taken from season three? When I think about why I absolutely can't stand the character, almost all of my examples are from season three. She was uneven in season two but sometimes bordering on likable, and she's really been fine this season. If you take season three out of the equation (Love Run Cold, Oedipus Hex, Silent Night), is it easier to like or at least find her tolerable?

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Top41 said:

Here's something I was thinking about...is much or most of Lindsay's bad rap taken from season three? When I think about why I absolutely can't stand the character, almost all of my examples are from season three. She was uneven in season two but sometimes bordering on likable, and she's really been fine this season. If you take season three out of the equation (Love Run Cold, Oedipus Hex, Silent Night), is it easier to like or at least find her tolerable?

Thats an interesting thing to think about. Lindsay wasn't half bad in season two, and she really didn't start bothering me until season three, and thats when i went back and started critiquing her earlier performance in s2.

I think I wouldn't have minded Lindsay so much if season 3 was done better or totally taken out of the equation, but i still would have resented her a bit for taking time away from Hawkes and some of the other characters who had put in their time in season one, and were simply sidelined for her in season two.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Top41 said:
Here's something I was thinking about...is much or most of Lindsay's bad rap taken from season three? When I think about why I absolutely can't stand the character, almost all of my examples are from season three. She was uneven in season two but sometimes bordering on likable, and she's really been fine this season. If you take season three out of the equation (Love Run Cold, Oedipus Hex, Silent Night), is it easier to like or at least find her tolerable?

She'd probably be more tolerable. I agree with CSiNyFrEaK30 that she'd probably still be resented a bit by those of us who think she is taking screen time from Hawkes and others. Also, I think her interactions with Adam in S4, the horrid phone call in the opener and not bothering to help him with the puzzle until Mac came along, would've been strikes against her even if I had found her tolerable before that. And then there was the horrid "I Rock" scene and the Batmobile vs. Mach5 debate which didn't suit her character. Those things would've bothered me too, but I don't think I would dislike her as passionately as I do if S3 hadn't happened the way it did.

S3's botched "big dark secret" and forced "fauxmance" with Danny really sealed her fate, though. Not only were the story lines crap, but they went way outside of Anna's talent range and outside of what chemistry she and Carmine do have. I think their flirty banter in S2 was an example of good chemistry, but then they had to push romantic chemistry. Those two don't have that type of chemistry. Not.At.All.

 

[Top41]

I really think season three was what killed Lindsay's character for many. It was when her behavior was at its most heinous, and when the Danny/Lindsay "romance" was pushed the hardest. I think if you take out season three, she's still not great, but at least she's not totally contemptible the way she is if you look at season three.

 

[GTuruturu]

i know continuity isn't the best with this show, but does anyone else think that the total disdain for the Lindsay from season 3 may be the reason there is a disconnect from season 3 in season 4? or the complete change in character (again)?

 

[Top41]

GTuruturu said:
i know continuity isn't the best with this show, but does anyone else think that the total disdain for the Lindsay from season 3 may be the reason there is a disconnect from season 3 in season 4? or the complete change in character (again)?

It might be presumptuous for those of us who dislike the character to think that, but it's definitely something that's worth considering. There was a lot of dislike for Lindsay in season three, and I've seen even fans of hers admit that her behavior wasn't the best. I think there was a definite attempt to lighten her up in season four, and whatever the reason, I think it was definitely for the best.

She's still not my fav by any means, but I certainly don't loathe her in season four like I did in season three. And when I look over the reasons I don't like her, the majority of them come from season three episodes.

 

[GTuruturu]

see i actually like lindsay as a character, it was just her whole storyline in season 3 that really urked me, i think it could have been handled so much better, kinda like macs storyline this season :\ but not everyone dislikes mac because of 10 episodes, no now we just cringe everytime we hear/see 333,

thats off topic but anyway,

i'm just saying i think the total reversal from broken lindsay back to know-it-all, ha-ha, state the obvious lindsay happened alot faster then it would have had there not been so much negativity about the storyline/character.

idk, it seems the continuity is getting better as time goes on, flack was fine right after the bombing, lindsay jumped back pretty quickly, (idk about that wince in 413 with the shot gun was it the shot gun, or???) and i guess we will see with danny in the next episode or 2 or 3 (if we get them). thats not really about lindsay, but making my point, i think the writers are learning from their past mistakes, hence the reason lindsay is becoming more tolerable to those her hate her, and that maybe forgetting/disregarding her storyline from last season is just a way to try and right a wrong?

 

[roximonoxide]

GTuruturu said: but not everyone dislikes mac because of 10 episodes

While we've used a lot of examples from specific episodes I don't think most of us dislike her solely for those episodes or moments. Personally, I use some episodes of prime examples of incidents that explain why I don't like her but I feel she carries these traits I have distaste for all the time.

That being said, while it might not have turned out to be Mac's best storyline, just as Stella's arch with Frankie didn't pay off the way I would have liked, the difference I think is that the story didn't have them doing much that I felt was ridiculously OOC and didn't paint either of them in a light that made me feel as though they had a crappy personality. It just felt simply as though two decent characters were being rather misused or under appreciated.

i think the writers are learning from their past mistakes,

I'm not totally convinced of that but God I hope you're right.

hence the reason lindsay is becoming more tolerable to those her hate her, and that maybe forgetting/disregarding her storyline from last season is just a way to try and right a wrong?

I really didn't like her last season but I have to say...she hasn't done anything this season to redeem herself to me.

Her little "I rock!" scene is like nails on a chalk board for me, and that's this season. Her tag-along lines when Don starts telling Stella about his childhood experience with Laughing Larry's products. That whole scene is just brutal for her, not to mention interrupted what was a quality Don story. Same goes for her scene where we learn she was such a little rebel she spent her childhood shooting boys with sling-shots... all this season, so thus far, I've found she's just as irritating as ever.

 

[Top41]

GTuruturu said:
i'm just saying i think the total reversal from broken lindsay back to know-it-all, ha-ha, state the obvious lindsay happened alot faster then it would have had there not been so much negativity about the storyline/character.

idk, it seems the continuity is getting better as time goes on, flack was fine right after the bombing, lindsay jumped back pretty quickly, (idk about that wince in 413 with the shot gun was it the shot gun, or???) and i guess we will see with danny in the next episode or 2 or 3 (if we get them). thats not really about lindsay, but making my point, i think the writers are learning from their past mistakes, hence the reason lindsay is becoming more tolerable to those her hate her, and that maybe forgetting/disregarding her storyline from last season is just a way to try and right a wrong?

It's definitely possible, and the best direction they could go in IMO. Anna is better with the lighthearted scenes than she is with all that angsting, period. So they're better serving the actress, that's for sure. And a lot of people just got to hate the character last season, based on her behavior, to the point where for some, she's pretty irredeemable. So going back to the lighthearted personality she was first brought to the show with was definitely a good move.

 

[kinkapoodles]

I really didn't like her last season but I have to say...she hasn't done anything this season to redeem herself to me.

I agree. There was lots of things that annoyed me in Season 3 with her but I did enjoy that she missed three shows and that she was barely in a lot of the episodes. Even so, she's just as annoying to me this season as she was last season. I'm not sure there's much they can do now that would make me see her any differently.

Her little "I rock!" scene is like nails on a chalk board for me, and that's this season.

That was awful. She's almost turned me against that phrase.

Her tag-along lines when Don starts telling Stella about his childhood experience with Laughing Larry's products. That whole scene is just brutal for her, not to mention interrupted what was a quality Don story.

I felt like TPTB did that in the hopes that we'd warm up to her. Sorry, don't try making her BFFs with Don thinking I'll like her. It just won't work. It was a great Don story and hearing her continue to jump in just made me want to smack her.

The batmobile scene annoyed me. It should have been Adam geeking out with Danny. That would have been more realistic. I love when Danny/Adam have their little geek out moments. I still have to wonder if Lindsay hadn't ran into Don in AITF, if she would have just forgotten all about Danny not showing up for work. I find it hard to believe she would have tried to find him. In Child's Play, I wanted to smack her for going to Mac and whining instead of just going to Danny and then pretending things were just fine when she was with Don and Stella. Most things she's done this season just don't make me find her any more tolerable than last season.

 

[GTuruturu]

see i actually liked the scene about laughing larry, i thought that entire episode was done pretty well.

It was a great Don story, and i think Lindsay piping in made it more realistic, she and flack have been on teasing terms since the begining of season 3 (the phone numbers) so i thought it fit, plus stories like that are more fun when you have someone to relate to. there seems to be another burst of energy and excitement when someone else gets what your talking about.

As for her with Mac, i didn't see it as whining. it seemed more like asking for guidance. when something is out of scope, don't people ask for help from those they trust and look up to? thats what i saw it as, not as a way to be selfish, but as a way to keep from upsetting danny more.

and her acting normal, yea someone she likes...alot is having a hard time, but that doesn't mean she HAS to be effected. put it in the back of her mind and deal with it later, after all she does have a job to do. At least that's what i would do, there was nothing she could do for Danny at that moment and she was still working, deal with it later, don't dwell on it because that won't help anything, it wouldn't help him and what she was working on would suffer.

what happened afterward, who knows, thats tptb, they don;t want to show us, fine, thats what leads to better discussions here.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

GTuruturu said:

and her acting normal, yea someone she likes...alot is having a hard time, but that doesn't mean she HAS to be effected. put it in the back of her mind and deal with it later, after all she does have a job to do. At least that's what i would do, there was nothing she could do for Danny at that moment and she was still working, deal with it later, don't dwell on it because that won't help anything, it wouldn't help him and what she was working on would suffer.

If she is really in love with Danny, really cares about him more than she does herself, i dont see any reason why she shouldn't be affected by what happened to him. if you really care about someone that much, i would think you would feel the pain they are going through and try to do something and help them, or at least let them know you are there for them, to which Lindsay did neither for Danny. it shouldn't have mattered that she couldn't have changed what happened or that there wasn't anything she could really do right then and there or that she was busy with work--if she really cared about what Danny was going through I'd think we'd have least seen something to the effect of her telling him she was there for him, or offering her support. Instead, all we get is that extremely brief scene in the morgue, and its never followed up on.

I've never once seen Lindsay be there for Danny when he needed someone. Yes, there was that scene in Snow Day, but all it was was her feeling guilty for putting him in that situation and dragging him away from the warehouse. With all of Danny's emotional turmoil, I could see plenty of times that he would need someone to support him, but Lindsay is never the one. While he flew to Montana to be at the trial with her, she couldn't even manage to say "sorry to hear about Rueben" or show any worry after sending Flack out to look for him in All in the Family. Canon-ly speaking, she does none of this, and I think it only showcases how selfish her character is coming across as, whether its purposely or not.

And if its not on purpose, i think it even further supports the idea that her character is one the writers DON'T have a hold on at all. if they are meaning her to come across as sweet and caring, its not consistent and believeable for alot of people.

 

[kinkapoodles]

It was a great Don story, and i think Lindsay piping in made it more realistic, she and flack have been on teasing terms since the begining of season 3 (the phone numbers) so i thought it fit, plus stories like that are more fun when you have someone to relate to.

It WAS a great Don story that didn't need any input from her to make it seem realistic. Don doesn't need propping up. That scene in People With Money (the phone numbers), that did not come across to me as teasing. Don didn't seem all that thrilled when she kept asking how many numbers he had gotten. Actually, the only time I've ever seen him talk to her where he didn't seem annoyed with her was in All in the Family and that was probably because he was worried about Danny. She didn't seem to worried about him.

? thats what i saw it as, not as a way to be selfish, but as a way to keep from upsetting danny more.

It seemed more of a way to NOT have to deal with Danny. Whether you're good at things like that or not (how many people really know what to say/do?), you need to step up and deal with it. DL fans keep saying they're in love....if so, why doesn't Lindsay show one ounce of concern for him?

I've never once seen Lindsay be there for Danny when he needed someone. Yes, there was that scene in Snow Day, but all it was was her feeling guilty for putting him in that situation and dragging him away from the warehouse. With all of Danny's emotional turmoil, I could see plenty of times that he would need someone to support him, but Lindsay is never the one.

She never has been and probably never will be. To me, that scene in Snow Day doesn't count because she made it all about her. Why would you drag an injured man away especially when Flack suggested EMT come to Danny? At least we know who doesn't hesitate to be there for Danny and that is Flack. Flack has proven time and again how much he cares for Danny. He's shown more compassion for Danny than Lindsay ever will. I don't think she's actually capable of caring for someone more than she cares for herself.

All I see is how selfish she is. Everything she says/does is to benefit her, not anybody else. It makes me wonder if the only reason she was even concerned about Danny missing his shift in All in the Family was because she lied to Mac and knew her ass could be on the line. Therefore, she stays at work doing Danny's job while Flack spends the day looking for Danny. I'm glad it was Flack and not Lindsay though. She'd never done for him what Flack did. She doesn't have it in her.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

GTuruturu said:
put it in the back of her mind and deal with it later, after all she does have a job to do. At least that's what i would do, there was nothing she could do for Danny at that moment and she was still working, deal with it later, don't dwell on it because that won't help anything, it wouldn't help him and what she was working on would suffer.

And in the very next episode we see Danny being affected by it and he still does his job. But in reality though I can't see her doing a complete 180. Going from worried about someone to . Especially when it's supposed to be someone you care a lot about. You don't need to dwell on it to have it affect you.

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:If she is really in love with Danny, really cares about him more than she does herself, i dont see any reason why she shouldn't be affected by what happened to him. if you really care about someone that much, i would think you would feel the pain they are going through and try to do something and help them, or at least let them know you are there for them, to which Lindsay did neither for Danny. it shouldn't have mattered that she couldn't have changed what happened or that there wasn't anything she could really do right then and there or that she was busy with work--if she really cared about what Danny was going through I'd think we'd have least seen something to the effect of her telling him she was there for him, or offering her support.

Exactly. I think it would have been one thing if it had been some co-worker that she may have been acquaintances with but when it's a person you're supposed to deeply care about it makes no sense that it would affect you at all.

I know when my friend lost her mother all of a sudden she was telling jokes left and right and just being goofy and outgoing all the time. But you could tell that behind that she was still sad. Point being is I think it could have been played as Lindsay being all happy and what not and still having us see that there is something on her mind affecting her even if it's not in a gargantuan, work altering way. Although that might be tough for Anna to do. One emotion for her seems hard enough, let alone two.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Point being is I think it could have been played as Lindsay being all happy and what not and still having us see that there is something on her mind affecting her even if it's not in a gargantuan, work altering way. Although that might be tough for Anna to do. One emotion for her seems hard enough, let alone two.

Maybe that's the way it was supposed to be and Anna just couldn't pull it off. You can only use the scrunch face look for so many emotions.

And in the very next episode we see Danny being affected by it and he still does his job.

Great point. Danny was still hurting and it showed AND he still managed to do his job. Then again, Carmine has a wide range of emotions. Lindsay didn't just put it in the back of her mind...she completely forgot about it.