Why Lindsay Must Stay!
- Thread starter ericisacutie
- Start date
WhosLaughingNow
Lab Technician
I feel it's more along the lines of yes they do sometimes slip up with the writing. But a good actor can make a pile of crap look like gold. You can have a crappy story line and a brilliant performance. I think that most people feel that Anna isn't the greatest actor and that kind of just makes the writing slip ups stick out even more.
Actually, I don't. On my favorite show, I'd rather love all the characters. I did on the other shows I really love--Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel, Deep Space Nine, Friends...I could go on but basically I feel no need to 'hate' a character. Sometimes you hate the baddie, but that's usually in a 'love to hate' way.
Anyway, no, I feel no need to have a character to dislike. Lindsay irritates me all on her own (de)merits. As for blaming her for the writing--Lindsay is a product of the writing. I fail to see how the two can really be differentiated. The writers created her, so if they're writing lines and stories where she comes off as unpleasant, well, that's who she is because they shape her personality.
adorelo
CSI Level Two
I'll second that ^.
Take Stetler from Miami, for example, I LOVE him so much, purely because he's evil as :lol:. But the writers put him in there as a nemesis to Horatio (and the lab, I suppose) and that's why I like him, he's stuck true to his character.
However, I don't think Lindsay was put into the show to give us 'somebody to hate' which is why I don't like her so much. In fact, I think it was the writers intention to make us like her and they have tried, in numerous ways (sad secret/'funny' moments/romance/sarcasm/etc) to make it happen.
I agree, Top, that the writers/producers are giving her the lines, and, ultimately, directing her as to how they want her to perform them. But I know from my own experience there is only so much one can direct an actor. If he/she is not taking the direction, or taking a different perspective on it, then there is only so much the director can do.
Still, I think Anna is doing what she can with the material, but I don't think she has that grasp on her character necessary for her probable assets to come through.
What do you all think?
Take Stetler from Miami, for example, I LOVE him so much, purely because he's evil as :lol:. But the writers put him in there as a nemesis to Horatio (and the lab, I suppose) and that's why I like him, he's stuck true to his character.
However, I don't think Lindsay was put into the show to give us 'somebody to hate' which is why I don't like her so much. In fact, I think it was the writers intention to make us like her and they have tried, in numerous ways (sad secret/'funny' moments/romance/sarcasm/etc) to make it happen.
I agree, Top, that the writers/producers are giving her the lines, and, ultimately, directing her as to how they want her to perform them. But I know from my own experience there is only so much one can direct an actor. If he/she is not taking the direction, or taking a different perspective on it, then there is only so much the director can do.
Still, I think Anna is doing what she can with the material, but I don't think she has that grasp on her character necessary for her probable assets to come through.
What do you all think?
Clytia
Hit and Run
Why Lindsay must stay? => Such a good question? 
=> Because threads which talk about her character are those I prefer read on this board (I’m a lurker)…So, if she go…well…no more threads about her, no more those good discussions I love to read…such a shame. I find this funny: the fact there is so much talk about her character (whether there are positive points or negative points) tends to prove that she must stay on the show, that people show interest on her character, that the character is an important part of the show.
If there was nothing to say about her character, no discussion at all about her, her storyline, no interest…So, that would probably mean that such a character must probably go. Obviously, that’s not the case in here. Funny part is that’s it seems to be peoples who want her to go, that talk the most about her…
Anyway,, that’s not why I do love her character and why I want her to stay.
She’s refreshing. At the beginning of season 2, she was the newest. I was looking after her. And now, I’m still looking after her.
She’s still a refreshing character because she’s different than the other characters, well, simply because of what she is. She is dynamic, enthusiast, and sensitive, wily, clever, funny, cheerful and also determined, sometimes aggressive, with a sturdy character…And all of this can define her through season 2, season 3 (yeah even in season 3 with maybe the exception of 3x03 to 3x14…but there is an explanation, I will talk about this later…) and season 4!
Well, she does have character. She’s not perfect, absolutely not; she has some faults, some flaws…like everyone…It’s that the problem with the character of Lindsay? Is she too realistic? Like could be anyone with her good side, her bad side, her wrong side and her annoying side….And not like should be any fictional character in some people’s mind…Always doing the good thing at the good time…
By ‘good things’ I’m mean ‘the things people want (or don’t want) the character do, not as the ‘perfect thing to do’ in a moral sense…In fact, I can’t thing about any fictional character who can do such things.
For me, she has enough consistency to exist in the show even if there was no Danny, or no D/L!
She does have good chemistry with the other character on the show (not only with Danny!) with Sid, Sheldon, and Flack (I’ve never seen anything wrong between them, in fact, I remember that they have a lot of good banters: COTP, People With Money, A Daze Of Wine And Roaches, Child’s Play…). And she has a really good chemistry with Mac and Stella.
=> uh, no I actually really loved that exchange, and that line was really funny! It was the first time I’ve seen something other between them, than a scene where they’re just doing their job…Okay, Lindsay maybe was not the best one to say such things to Adam given what she did in OH, SN…But she did have her reasons, that you understand, or not…At least there is an explanation. What exactly are Adam’s reasons to be late?…besides there was no angry tone in their lines…It was just Anyway, when I’ve seen this exchange, I just enjoyed it and didn’t come with so much questions
=> Is there a problem if I ask what the other occasion is where she’s a ‘mean’ to Adam? I’m sorry if it has been brought lo light ‘time and time again’ but I just don’t remember? I probably missed something. What was the name of the episode?
She is enthusiasm about the scientific part of her work; she seems always ready to learn new things. She loves doing her job!... I see people coming with OH and SN…but her behaviour during that period had an explanation…
Her line to Mac in trapped was really funny, because she obviously knew that she would have do that part of job, she was absolutely not trying to escape it…
=> About her being selfish => I’m not sure that’s something who can really define her character. She had shown a lot of concern toward other people (Danny: Trapped, RSRD, SD, The Deep, Child’s play, All in the Family…; Stella: All access…; Sheldon: The Deep… ; ...)
She wants to know about Aiden. Okay, I read someone saying that in that conversation with Stella, she was fishing for information about Danny's relationship with Aiden. Well, I never came with such explanation, but why not…that can be one right interpretation. When I’ve seen that scene, I thought she was just making statement, not asking question. Like those things you can say to people who just lost someone, but you, you didn’t know the person, but you’re just showing concern, respect…Something a little more concerned than the basic and a in someway stupid statement ‘I’m sorry’ … She also have that kind of conversation with Sheldon. She asks him how well he knew Aiden, once again, something common people ask in such situation. It allows people to share, to remember good memories. I find this sweet, nice, being concerned and absolutely not being selfish…
She was kind of out of place, because everyone around her was affected by the death of someone she didn’t know. But she was there, doing her job, and she was also showing concern for what the team was going through…I find that great that, in the end, she was at the bar…like every other member of the team…because, now, she’s a member of that team!
In SD, In front of the warehouse, she was there and did nothing, yeah, like most of the cops around her…There was an hostage situation, there’re not so much things she could have done, at least she was ready to act if necessary (bullet proof vest, gun…). And I don’t think she was really selfish in the end of the episode while dragged Danny away…Danny was already moving by himself when she arrives at his side, she saw him moving, so she just helped him. In real life, the best thing to do would have been to make him stop moving…But that’s not the first time we see things like this in CSI: NY, and that as nothing to do with Lindsay…
For the “I’m sorry, (…), you took my shift” => she’s just make a statement because she feels guilty. Now, saying ‘I’m sorry’, and saying that you feel guilty, is that the same thing than being selfish? Yes in some way, because by saying this, it’s just a way to have people telling you ‘that’s not your fault’! But it’s come with whoever made that kind of statement not just Lindsay! And is that really selfishness? If you really mean you’re sorry? I find this more a way to reassure yourself, to feel yourself relieve…Someone really selfish doesn’t even bother himself by saying ‘I’m sorry’ ... But that probably was not the best moment to do such statement, but that probably something which was running through her mind since she knows about the hostage situation, so, she just said the thing the first time she’s been able to say it…(besides it was the last time they appeared in the episode…so that was her last chance )
There are a lot of people who don’t understand why she walks away in SN but not in Manhattan Manhunt => she reacts in two different ways because there are two different contexts. In Manhattan Manhunt, she wants to investigate the crime scene because that’s the reason why she does that job. But such crime scene reminds her her own drama. And maybe by resolving such crime, it’s like she resolve her own drama. A way to move forward. She’s determined to find a reason for such crime (Why? : In Stealing Home). And she’s angry when she can’t do anything in such situation (Manhattan Manhunt, All access). But when she had a chance to do something to prevent someone (a young girl like her friends, and the waitress) to be killed she does it (3x02).
Then there is OH, SN…She’s enable to deal with some part of the job…There is a change in her behaviour…But there is an explanation…We know she received a phone call (we learn this in 3x14 and in 3x03 she said she had to work some stuff out that she thought she had put behind her…) She probably is reliving what’s happen years ago...a jump in her past …when she was a teenager…she probably have a problem to deal with what’s happening to her…but she refuses the help of other person (Danny, Stella…)…Which made her act like a brat, and a teenager…and kind of selfish…
Then 3x18: her case is closed, the killer now is in prison and we didn’t see her acting like in OH or SN since that case is closed.
And I guess everyone who came through big personal problems at particular moment that they really don’t care about being fired. People who can’t deal with their feeling in such moment, so, they act out of character. They have so much anger they said things which will hurt them and people around them (like self-destruction). And who after, when the anger is gone, after they had broken down, have to deal with the consequences of their act, of what they said…Unless, they have in front of them someone with enough intelligent and enough kindness to understand them and give them a second chance…As was Stella for Lindsay!
We still don’t have an explanation with her thing with ‘mothers/ but not with fathers’. It seems to have nothing to do with the murder of her friends … But it’s probably doesn’t help her to face grieved mother in her situation. But there is some continuities with that thing (In Stealing home, she’s really sweet with the father…and in BOO, in the scene with the suitcase, when the mother grabs her arm, and she froze, like scared and that in her look, she begs the officer to take away the mother…)
I can understand that people who don’t like her character have been annoying by her whole drama thing during season 3…’333’ and Mac in season 4 was kind of annoying me…But I enjoyed watching The things About Heroes…
I watch CSI:NY since season 1, I didn’t have problems with the characters. I liked all of them…The show was okay, but I wasn’t stunned…It was okay, if I missed some episodes…But in season 2, when they added Lindsay, I became addicted to the show…There was something different…Her character…For all the reasons I wrote above.
But I’m aware it’s not just Lindsay that made the show really great, that the whole team!
So, this thread is an endless discussion???!…Everyone is stuck on their opinions. Well, it’s okay, I don’t think that those threads are really made to have people change their mind about the character…just express their opinion…So, it’s normal that people repeat themselves…
Since I read that board I (if it’s even possible) just love her character more and more. So, I’m always curious to read those threads.
=> Because threads which talk about her character are those I prefer read on this board (I’m a lurker)…So, if she go…well…no more threads about her, no more those good discussions I love to read…such a shame.
I find this funny: the fact there is so much talk about her character (whether there are positive points or negative points) tends to prove that she must stay on the show, that people show interest on her character, that the character is an important part of the show.If there was nothing to say about her character, no discussion at all about her, her storyline, no interest…So, that would probably mean that such a character must probably go. Obviously, that’s not the case in here. Funny part is that’s it seems to be peoples who want her to go, that talk the most about her…
Anyway,
, that’s not why I do love her character and why I want her to stay.She’s refreshing. At the beginning of season 2, she was the newest. I was looking after her. And now, I’m still looking after her.
She’s still a refreshing character because she’s different than the other characters, well, simply because of what she is. She is dynamic, enthusiast, and sensitive, wily, clever, funny, cheerful and also determined, sometimes aggressive, with a sturdy character…And all of this can define her through season 2, season 3 (yeah even in season 3 with maybe the exception of 3x03 to 3x14…but there is an explanation, I will talk about this later…) and season 4!
Well, she does have character. She’s not perfect, absolutely not; she has some faults, some flaws…like everyone…It’s that the problem with the character of Lindsay? Is she too realistic? Like could be anyone with her good side, her bad side, her wrong side and her annoying side….And not like should be any fictional character in some people’s mind…Always doing the good thing at the good time…
By ‘good things’ I’m mean ‘the things people want (or don’t want) the character do, not as the ‘perfect thing to do’ in a moral sense…In fact, I can’t thing about any fictional character who can do such things.
For me, she has enough consistency to exist in the show even if there was no Danny, or no D/L!
She does have good chemistry with the other character on the show (not only with Danny!) with Sid, Sheldon, and Flack (I’ve never seen anything wrong between them, in fact, I remember that they have a lot of good banters: COTP, People With Money, A Daze Of Wine And Roaches, Child’s Play…). And she has a really good chemistry with Mac and Stella.
=> uh, no I actually really loved that exchange, and that line was really funny! It was the first time I’ve seen something other between them, than a scene where they’re just doing their job…Okay, Lindsay maybe was not the best one to say such things to Adam given what she did in OH, SN…But she did have her reasons, that you understand, or not…At least there is an explanation. What exactly are Adam’s reasons to be late?…besides there was no angry tone in their lines…It was just Anyway, when I’ve seen this exchange, I just enjoyed it and didn’t come with so much questions
=> Is there a problem if I ask what the other occasion is where she’s a ‘mean’ to Adam? I’m sorry if it has been brought lo light ‘time and time again’ but I just don’t remember? I probably missed something. What was the name of the episode?
She is enthusiasm about the scientific part of her work; she seems always ready to learn new things. She loves doing her job!... I see people coming with OH and SN…but her behaviour during that period had an explanation…
Her line to Mac in trapped was really funny, because she obviously knew that she would have do that part of job, she was absolutely not trying to escape it…
=> About her being selfish => I’m not sure that’s something who can really define her character. She had shown a lot of concern toward other people (Danny: Trapped, RSRD, SD, The Deep, Child’s play, All in the Family…; Stella: All access…; Sheldon: The Deep… ; ...)
She wants to know about Aiden. Okay, I read someone saying that in that conversation with Stella, she was fishing for information about Danny's relationship with Aiden. Well, I never came with such explanation, but why not…that can be one right interpretation. When I’ve seen that scene, I thought she was just making statement, not asking question. Like those things you can say to people who just lost someone, but you, you didn’t know the person, but you’re just showing concern, respect…Something a little more concerned than the basic and a in someway stupid statement ‘I’m sorry’ … She also have that kind of conversation with Sheldon. She asks him how well he knew Aiden, once again, something common people ask in such situation. It allows people to share, to remember good memories. I find this sweet, nice, being concerned and absolutely not being selfish…
She was kind of out of place, because everyone around her was affected by the death of someone she didn’t know. But she was there, doing her job, and she was also showing concern for what the team was going through…I find that great that, in the end, she was at the bar…like every other member of the team…because, now, she’s a member of that team!
In SD, In front of the warehouse, she was there and did nothing, yeah, like most of the cops around her…There was an hostage situation, there’re not so much things she could have done, at least she was ready to act if necessary (bullet proof vest, gun…). And I don’t think she was really selfish in the end of the episode while dragged Danny away…Danny was already moving by himself when she arrives at his side, she saw him moving, so she just helped him. In real life, the best thing to do would have been to make him stop moving…But that’s not the first time we see things like this in CSI: NY, and that as nothing to do with Lindsay…
For the “I’m sorry, (…), you took my shift” => she’s just make a statement because she feels guilty. Now, saying ‘I’m sorry’, and saying that you feel guilty, is that the same thing than being selfish? Yes in some way, because by saying this, it’s just a way to have people telling you ‘that’s not your fault’! But it’s come with whoever made that kind of statement not just Lindsay! And is that really selfishness? If you really mean you’re sorry? I find this more a way to reassure yourself, to feel yourself relieve…Someone really selfish doesn’t even bother himself by saying ‘I’m sorry’ ... But that probably was not the best moment to do such statement, but that probably something which was running through her mind since she knows about the hostage situation, so, she just said the thing the first time she’s been able to say it…(besides it was the last time they appeared in the episode…so that was her last chance
)There are a lot of people who don’t understand why she walks away in SN but not in Manhattan Manhunt => she reacts in two different ways because there are two different contexts. In Manhattan Manhunt, she wants to investigate the crime scene because that’s the reason why she does that job. But such crime scene reminds her her own drama. And maybe by resolving such crime, it’s like she resolve her own drama. A way to move forward. She’s determined to find a reason for such crime (Why? : In Stealing Home). And she’s angry when she can’t do anything in such situation (Manhattan Manhunt, All access). But when she had a chance to do something to prevent someone (a young girl like her friends, and the waitress) to be killed she does it (3x02).
Then there is OH, SN…She’s enable to deal with some part of the job…There is a change in her behaviour…But there is an explanation…We know she received a phone call (we learn this in 3x14 and in 3x03 she said she had to work some stuff out that she thought she had put behind her…) She probably is reliving what’s happen years ago...a jump in her past …when she was a teenager…she probably have a problem to deal with what’s happening to her…but she refuses the help of other person (Danny, Stella…)…Which made her act like a brat, and a teenager…and kind of selfish…
Then 3x18: her case is closed, the killer now is in prison and we didn’t see her acting like in OH or SN since that case is closed.
=> Well, Lindsay!
And I guess everyone who came through big personal problems at particular moment that they really don’t care about being fired. People who can’t deal with their feeling in such moment, so, they act out of character. They have so much anger they said things which will hurt them and people around them (like self-destruction). And who after, when the anger is gone, after they had broken down, have to deal with the consequences of their act, of what they said…Unless, they have in front of them someone with enough intelligent and enough kindness to understand them and give them a second chance…As was Stella for Lindsay! We still don’t have an explanation with her thing with ‘mothers/ but not with fathers’. It seems to have nothing to do with the murder of her friends … But it’s probably doesn’t help her to face grieved mother in her situation. But there is some continuities with that thing (In Stealing home, she’s really sweet with the father…and in BOO, in the scene with the suitcase, when the mother grabs her arm, and she froze, like scared and that in her look, she begs the officer to take away the mother…)
I can understand that people who don’t like her character have been annoying by her whole drama thing during season 3…’333’ and Mac in season 4 was kind of annoying me…But I enjoyed watching The things About Heroes…
=> I don’t understand how it can be a good reason for Lindsay to go, especially when it said by people who don’t care about the character or dislike her…I mean it’s logic…I don’t dislike Adam, I enjoy some of his scenes when is there, but when is not here (like in All in the Family), I don’t miss him, and I can still enjoy the episode. But I missed Lindsay when she was gone, I was still looking the show, but not with the same fun that when she is here…I was like: “just three episodes and she will be there again”…The episodes were okay, but any of the three were fantastic…What did annoy me the most is that it was like those episodes had been written as Lindsay never existed, no continuity, but that was not Lindsay/Anna fault…She wasn’t there!
I watch CSI:NY since season 1, I didn’t have problems with the characters. I liked all of them…The show was okay, but I wasn’t stunned…It was okay, if I missed some episodes…But in season 2, when they added Lindsay, I became addicted to the show…There was something different…Her character…For all the reasons I wrote above.
But I’m aware it’s not just Lindsay that made the show really great, that the whole team!
=> As people who like her!
So, this thread is an endless discussion???!…Everyone is stuck on their opinions. Well, it’s okay, I don’t think that those threads are really made to have people change their mind about the character…just express their opinion…So, it’s normal that people repeat themselves…Since I read that board I (if it’s even possible) just love her character more and more. So, I’m always curious to read those threads.
cSiNyFrEaK30
Police Officer
Clytia said:
Why Lindsay must stay? => Such a good question?
=> Because threads which talk about her character are those I prefer read on this board (I’m a lurker)…So, if she go…well…no more threads about her, no more those good discussions I love to read…such a shame.
I don't think that just because Lindsay is the topic of many discussions on the board necessarily means that she's an "important" part of the show. Most of the posts on the discussion threads about her (save for the Lindsay/Anna thread) are discussing shortcomings about her character and reasons why we believe that she isn't an important part of the show.
Just because there isn't alot of talk and discussion about, say, Sheldon Hawkes or Sid, it doesn't mean that they don't play an important role on the show, or that there are people that are in debate over which parts of the character they like. IMO, the fact that Lindsay is so hotly debated on these threads is more evidence of how polarizing her character is, and how the writers and Anna Belknap went wrong with the character. I doubt that the fans of the show would be so divided on her character if we were given better writing and a better actress to play the part.
That could be because we find so much to question about the character. The fact that most of the talk on the threads is anti=Lindsay seems to me like there is more to say in debate of her actions and more questioning as to why she is on the show, rather than commenting on how her hair looks this season or how sweet or nice Anna Beklnap is.
I could see enthusiastic, determined, and maybe funny in the first couple episodes she was ever in, but after that, I haven't seen it. In several episodes in season 2 she did show some enthusiasm for her job, albeit very few episodes, but it was season three that really made me dislike her character BECAUSE she didn't posess any of the traits that you described. She whined about doing several aspects of her job, and not even just in the episodes where she had an "excuse". In Manhattan Manhunt, she complained about being sent away from a crime scene that her BOSS ordered her away from. It was her job to process in the lab, yet she continued to complain like a child throughout the whole thing. In two seasons, she went from being the tough new girl tackling a suspect, to a whiny, bratty child complaining about doing her job, to an emo CSI who suddenly can't deal with murdered teenage girls (even after she's seen countless numbers since her deep dark secret), and countless other shifts in personality throughout the series. The only personality trait i've seen be consistent is her self-centeredness, which i'm sure i will mention again.
I don't want perfect characters in any of my TV shows or movies-perfect isn't real, and when I watch tv shows like CSI:NY i want to see flawed characters with real problems. My problem with Lindsay isn't that she is TOO realistic, but rather too inconsistent. Yeah, characters like Danny can be bratty (like he was to Flack in All in the Family), he can be compassionate, he can be impulsive, and have extremely bad judgement. Obviously he is far from perfect, and his actions are not all "good"...but the difference between him, or any character, and Lindsay is that her actions when she is going through her differing personalities is that I don't believe its the same character. The way the character is written and the way she is performed don't own up to being one specific character-it seems to me while I'm watching her episode to episode that she is a bunch of different people. The actions shes carrying out and the things she is saying don't flow with the "character".
People have different ideas of what chemistry is and what people have it I guess. I really don't see her having any with Danny at all. The few times I've seen her interact much with Sid she was snatching evidence out of his hands or cutting him off in a rude way, and the last time i remember her having any interaction at all with Hawkes was when she cut him off and ordered him to do something in Boo. She seems to treat alot of her co-workers like crap, ecspecially the ones she seems to think are "underneath" her. Besides Hawkes and Sid, she's snapped at Adam, ecspecially on the phone call when he was late to work. Perhaps it was the writing (they never should have given her those lines to say, after she walked off the job more than once) but even with the lines she had Anna Beklnap could have made them sound friendly or teasing without sounding like a complete b*tch over the phone to him. As for Flack...there was the episode Child's Play where they had some good banter about the Laughing Larry's products, but to me it seems like much of their interaction was Flack cutting her off or blowing her off, and I got the impression that he doesn't think too highly of her.
Stella and Mac though, I guess I could see the chemistry she's had with them. (although snapping at Stella to leave her alone when all she was doing was trying to help was childish).
There have been several instances besides those two episodes you mentioned where Lindsay is complaining about her job. In Manhattan Manhunt she complains about having to process in the lab instead of working the case on site. In another episode she complains about the team giving her all the jobs nobody wants because she has to tell a mother that her daughter is dead, and lets Danny get slapped in the face for it. In another episode this season, she complains about having to do a challenging test-i dont exactly remember on what or what episode though--a test that is part of her JOB. If anything, I'd say Lindsay is very unprofessional about her job, and nothing really stands out about her enough for Mac to have pulled her all the way from Montana to NYC when there were plenty of CSIs around the east coast he could have called.
Selfishness is something that can certainly define a character, and its the one thing that Lindsay constantly has. Yeah, she shows some concern for Danny and for Stella in All Access (although I'm not sure why, of all times, that they are suddenly girlfriends. up to that point, that hadn't had much interaction or given much canon evidence that they were even friends), but most of the time she is thinking of herself and only herself. After what we are to believe months of her dating Danny, she still has no idea what to do to be there for him after Rueben's death, and instead only says "Im not good at this sort of thing" to Mac, making it about her feelings rather than what Danny is going through. Her actions in Snow Day, dragging Danny away from the scene instead of waiting for help to come and make sure he was alright, and instead of trying to help him, makes it about her again by saying that it would have been her if she was there. I took this as her looking for reassurance from Danny that it wasn't her fault--something she SHOULDN'T be focused on when he was injured and needing medical attention.
People can interpret that scene however they want, I agree with you there. It could be a possibly that she only was wondering about who Aiden was, not fishing for information about her and Danny's past relationship. Either way though, I did not think it appropriate for her to be present at the memorial get-together the team had for Aiden. She had no idea who the woman was, and no place being there, IMO. Just because she felt bad for members of the team that they lost someone does not make her part of the team.
For the “I’m sorry, (…), you took my shift” => she’s just make a statement because she feels guilty. Now, saying ‘I’m sorry’, and saying that you feel guilty, is that the same thing than being selfish? Yes in some way, because by saying this, it’s just a way to have people telling you ‘that’s not your fault’! But it’s come with whoever made that kind of statement not just Lindsay! And is that really selfishness? If you really mean you’re sorry? I find this more a way to reassure yourself, to feel yourself relieve…Someone really selfish doesn’t even bother himself by saying ‘I’m sorry’ ... But that probably was not the best moment to do such statement, but that probably something which was running through her mind since she knows about the hostage situation, so, she just said the thing the first time she’s been able to say it…(besides it was the last time they appeared in the episode…so that was her last chance
I would think "I hope he is alright" would be the first thing running through her mind when she heard of the hostage situation, not "I hope he doesn't think its my fault!"....
Okay, but wasn't investigating crime scenes the reason why she should be on the scene in the Silent Night case too? I really don't see how it was that different, except being more brutal.
Stealing Home was an unrelated episode, although the personal connection she had to the victim's situation made her more bearable in that one. But i don't see how it relates back to her deep dark past, or how it shows that she is determined to solve the crime in Manhatta Manhunt. It seemed all it was in that episode that was driving her was wanting to do a job on the scene, and not processing in the lab. I didn't see any concern for the actual question as to WHY those teens were killed.
In the review for the episode you are citing, the reviewer wrote:
Lindsay has chances to help solve crimes like the ones her friends were murdered in everyday, and certainly hundreds of times since she was a CSI has one involved a young girl. I don't see how solving the case does anything for her past, or why one particular, non related case in Silent Night would make her trauma resurface then, and not the hundreds of times she's most likely seen it before.
We've still seen plenty of evidence that Lindsay is bratty and whiny about her job, evem after her "dark secret" is over. And even if we didn't, it would be even more inconsistent of her character--she was so traumatized only a episode before, but then she's all cheery and happy and forgets all about it after a court case? That writing doesn't flow well to me at all.
Danny had to deal with Rueben's death, his brother's near death--and still managed not to yell "leave me alone" to Mac or Stella, or run off the job when he had to deal with things that reminded him of either one. Flack had to arrest his mentor, and didn't try to pawn off that job to someone else. Stella had to deal with the fact that she could have AIDS, and didn't run away from the job or blow Mac off when he offered help. Only Lindsay has done the things you've described, and in a childish way.=> Well, Lindsay!
Adam has a presence on screen that Lindsay doesn't seem to have. The fact that people miss him when he is not around, along with the fact that he is on screen 3 times LESS than Lindsay is, seems to me that he's a stronger character in his own right than Lindsay is.
I think the show was plenty great before she even came along in the second season. People say she brought a "freshness" and "brightened up the show", but the show was already brightened by the end of s1 and the begining of s2, before her arrival. The fact is, her character wasn't needed in s2 at all. Aiden had left, and Hawkes was the new CSI. It was his rookie year, and he was overlooked for the haphhazardly thrown together character of Lindsay. While Hawkes can stand on his own, and was before Lindsay came around, Lindsay needs the Danny/Lindsay love story to prop her character up, even after TWO FULL SEASONS of being on the show. If thats not a sign of a useless deadweight character, i dont know what is.
^^that was some major quote action.
Now i hope even just one person reads it to justify the 30 minutes i took away from my german homework. =]
WhosLaughingNow
Lab Technician
So that like saying the more attention you get the more deserving it is for you to be on the show. Even if it's negative attention. It's like saying Britney spears is more deserving of a new album as opposed to a more talented, less publicized artist.
I think the reason she does her job is so she can get justice for the people who can't speak for themselves. It should not matter to her who the people are or what the case it. You can't just pick and choose which case means more to you. That's just being selfish and unfair to everyone else. If I were one of her friends looking down from above I would be disappointed in her. Now she's just serving her needs.
But in SN it reminds her of her own drama and all of a sudden it's now too hard for her to do her job. Despite the fact that the case in Manhattan Manhunt was closer to her case
. And they make it very, very clear that the case in SN reminds her of her own drama. More so here than in Manhattan Manhunt.
Clytia
Hit and Run
=> As I said in the line just after, this is not why I think Lindsay must stay, I just found this funny ….Anyway.
=> I seen a lot of that
, for examples: 3x02, in Snow Day, in ‘You Only Die Once’, in child’s play…the ‘roach broach’, the ‘condom spray’, the starfish, the slingshot, …,etc.=> Well she was angry because she wanted to investigate the crime scene, and was not allowed to, not because she has to process in the lab. She still wanted to do her job….It is not like she was whining that she would have been better in her bed…
In 3x14, Mac said something when Lindsay and Stella are in his office that seems to show he already knows about her past (something like ‘as I remember’)…So maybe, that’s a reason why he doesn’t want her to investigate the crime scene in Manhattan Manhunt…And maybe, Lindsay react that way, because she thinks that Mac doesn’t trust her to be able to handle such crime scene…And she’s angry because she thinks she can…But that’s just ‘maybe’…
=> you forgot to quote my next line : « By ‘good things’ I’m mean ‘the things people want (or don’t want) the character do, not as the ‘perfect thing to do’ in a moral sense…In fact, I can’t thing about any fictional character who can do such things” => I was not at all talking about perfect character…I was just saying that people don’t always react the way you think they could or they should have reacted…But that’s what people can be: surprising, disappointing, annoying…That’s what normal people are: they don’t react at every time always in the same way…
=>by ‘chemistry’ I’m mean every things that show good relationship between two people, IMO (sympathy, good banters, good moments, friendship, smile, laugh, good complicity…), things that show that there is a good atmosphere…
some examples with Danny (‘sex phone’ talk, ‘roach broach’ talk, ‘Mach 5/Batmobile’ talk ‘love handles’…) with Sid (Stealing home when she talks about I-don’t-remember-what-but-it’s-about-horse (sorry) with the ‘Montana’ talk, …,in Child’s play ‘laughing Larry’… there is good complicity), with Sheldon (heroes, …, 3x14,…, 4x12…) yes she cut him off in BOO…there’s a lot of person who did such thing when they suddenly come with an idea…what she should have say: “I’m sorry, maybe you want to talk about the weather or about how many candies you got, but, now that you have nothing more to learn me, I just have an idea which can help us to resolve the crime, if you don’t mind, I should probably go”
, , Poor Sheldon is not strong enough to handle someone cut him off…oh…there: one hug and one kiss (<3)…Now, Straighten up little soldier! => They have good interactions since day one…besides she’s her co-worker…
=> Well, indeed,
and it’s what she does, she asks to Flack about Danny when she arrives at the warehouse . And I was not saying that the first thing going through her mind could be "I hope he doesn't think its my fault!" but more something like “I hope their ok! I’m feeling guilty, Danny shouldn’t be there…” but I wasn’t on her mind , => What is different is not her job…but her state of mind, her feelings at a given moment! In one case, it’s a part of her past and she’s moving forward, maybe she wants to prove (to the others, to herself) that she can handle such crime. In the other case, the things she thought have put behind her surface again, she’ll have to face the murderer of her friends, relive her drama. Her mind is probably in a mess. So, she has problems to handle her feelings...
=> Stealing home is related to her because the victim had been kill without any reasons, with no motive, like her friends and the waitress…She wants to understand the ‘why’ of such crime, she’s determinate to find an answer…
=> Well, I didn’t see ‘those evidences’ after 3x18, or I totally missed them…
=> Well, she deals with her ‘traumatism’ from 3x03 to 3x18, I think it was time to move on…
But, I’m up to see some continuities in future episodes…=> Yeah, so what…
She’s not Danny, she’s not Stella, she’s not Flack…She’s different from the other characters, which is good for her…Everybody deal with their issues in different way. You may don’t like the way she reacts, but that still an understanding, and possible reaction.
cSiNyFrEaK30
Police Officer
True, she has had some funny moments. I forgot about the slingshot one when I replied. Still though, I haven’t seen it consistently enough to warrant it as being part of her character, rather just a few occasions where she has loosened up.Clytia said:
=> I seen a lot of that
But wouldn’t she have been angry not getting a chance to do her job at the Silent Night scene? I guess I really don’t understand why it was alright for her to leave the job on that occasion other than several others she’s worked on, when they’ve obviously had more significance and relevance to her ordeal with her murdered friends before. In Manhattan Manhunt I didn’t see her as simply wanting to do her job and not being given a chance to, she came off more to me as whining that she didn’t get the certain job she wanted-much like children whine about having to set the table for dinner when they’d rather be doing another chore they find more enjoyable.
That could be a pliable reason as to why she was upset, I’ll admit I didn’t consider that before. However though, I still question whether or not the writers even knew about the big secret they were going to give her, and whether Mac could really know about what she went through at this point. That can be chalked up to the writing and Anna’s pregnancy I guess-maybe they had some of the idea in their heads, but had to rush it along when she needed to go on leave. Either way though, I still don’t understand why a scene full of murdered teenagers like her friends doesn’t phase her more than a single girl killed a season later.In 3x14, Mac said something when Lindsay and Stella are in his office that seems to show he already knows about her past (something like ‘as I remember’)…So maybe, that’s a reason why he doesn’t want her to investigate the crime scene in Manhattan Manhunt…And maybe, Lindsay react that way, because she thinks that Mac doesn’t trust her to be able to handle such crime scene…And she’s angry because she thinks she can…But that’s just ‘maybe’…
I understand about what you meant—I think I just didn’t explain it enough lol….sometimes I know whats in my own head and go from there, but don’t explain to everyone else how I got to my conclusions. Sorry about that =]
Anyway, I don’t have a problem with Lindsay not reacting the same way to certain situations as others on the show do, I was just pointing out that her actions don’t seem to be made by the same person everytime-like I mentioned with Danny, he can go through a whirlwind of emotions and actions, and yet I still know its coming from the same character. He can be compassionate and caring to someone, which I believe is a big part of his character, but then he can go violent on someone like he did in All in the Family. Both actions are totally different, and I would say that the latter is out of character for him, but I don’t doubt that it goes with his personality. Lindsay’s actions and words don’t seem to all fit together, and even though they are coming from the same character, they don’t seem to be all her words. I don’t know if I’m making sense with that at all…I couldn’t think of how to explain it the best way so I went with my thought process.=]
It’s all in how people interpret it, so its really hard to ‘prove” chemistry exists to someone else that doesn’t see it. To me, those conversations she’s had with many of the others are simply conversations that she was supposed to say in the script…from how I’m watching the show, it seems that the conversations that the rest of the CSIs have with each other, whether its banter or serious CSI technical stuff, or whatever-it seems natural. When I watch Lindsay, or rather Anna Belknap, I see someone reading the lines given to them, and not necessarily chemistry. IMO, anyway. =]
Just because someone is a co-worker doesn’t mean they are necessarily “good friends”. I know plenty of people I’ve worked with for years, but I don’t consider myself a close personal friend to them and I don’t think they do, either.
If it could suddenly surface almost 15 years after the initial tragedy, I don’t doubt that it would affect her for a while afterwards, even if she knew the killer was behind bars. She still has the image in her mind and still has to deal with other murdered girls on the job. As for continuity on it, I do think it should be put in the background and never brought up again…the story wasn’t even strong enough to warrant it being in the previews for the episode it was in, proving IMO at least that the writers didn’t feel it strong enough to grab attention to viewers waiting for the next episode. If anything I want to see more of Hawkes, who was pushed to the background for Lindsay and her backstory in what was supposed to be his first year, and which he had a great start on in Grand Murder at Central Station.=> Well, she deals with her ‘traumatism’ from 3x03 to 3x18, I think it was time to move on…
=> Yeah, so what…
[/QUOTE]
I understand what you mean, I know every character acts differently and I may not like every way a character responds to something. But Lindsay is the only one who consistently acts like a child and handles her issues unprofessionally. She is a grown woman, holding a job in the professional world, and she doesn’t act like it. Acting as unprofessional as she does on the job, I’m surprised she has made it through her many years as CSI without being warned or fired for her behavior. Danny was almost fired for going against Mac’s orders in On the Job, and I’m surprised Lindsay wasn’t given a similar warning when she walked off the job in Silent Night. Both had their reasons for doing so, and both reacted somewhat differently, but Lindsay wasn’t punished for it like she should have been.
kinkapoodles
Judge
It still doesn't mean they are close personal friends and there's no canon proof they are. Close, personal friends spend time together away from the office (Ex. Danny and Flack, Danny and Hawkes) and we've never seen anything on the show that suggests Stella hangs out with Lindsay. Until I see it on the show, I think Stella and Lindsay are no more than co-workers. Before anybody brings it up, going to Sullivan's after Aiden's death doesn't count since they were going to honor and friend and Lindsay had no right to be there in the first place.
GTuruturu
Witness
When Lindsay first came on the show I had absolutely no problem with her, I liked her, and still do. I found her character to be refreshing, at least at the beginning, she was different from Stella and Aiden, and that’s what I liked about her, I felt that I could relate to her. I loved her character throughout the second season.
Yes, I know some say she complained about having to do the dirty work or ‘the new girl stuff’ as she called it, but I didn’t really see it as complaining. In Bad Beat when she said it had to stop it seemed light hearted to me. She and Mac had this playful banter kinda going and that sort of was followed up with when she joked with him about getting into the pool of lube. As for Manhattan Manhunt, I can see why she would want to work that, she was still the new girl and felt she had to prove herself. And yes in season three she ran away from the crime scene in silent night, but I think we have to remember that in season 2 the whole ‘my 3 friends from high school were murdered and I was the only survivor’ wasn’t a story line, or it was one in the works.
As for her being selfish in season 2 I really didn’t see it. She seemed to be out for the greater good of her coworkers and new friends. (I know not all coworkers are friends, but I do know working crazy hours with the same set of people, and when you are with people like this group is I’d find it almost ridiculous to think that they hadn’t formed friendships, even if it was just at work, or just outside of work). When Stella was hurt, yea it bugged Lindsay and she wished there was something SHE could do, but doesn’t everyone think that? When someone you know is in trouble or pain isn’t ‘what can I do to help them?’ A thought that goes through people’s minds? As for the Aiden thing with her at the bar with everyone else, I too felt it was out of place, but it also kind of made her feel like a member of the team too. It was the end of the season, and a rough couple of episodes, not technically for her but in general, and even if they were going to remember Aiden, wouldn’t it be rude not to invite her? She did work Aiden’s case too, and the Lillian Stanwick/Pratt case was one that seemed to bug her, at least that’s what o thought, so the fact that case was resolved could be another reason as to why she was there.
Now for season three, again I didn’t have a problem with her until the middle, I didn’t mind her in the beginning, and I didn’t mind her too much in the end, but the middle she urked me! In the beginning, she was the same as the season before, and at the end she seemed to be becoming herself again, not that the writers have a set self for her yet, but she settled back to the way I remember her. I haven’t watched the third season as much as the second, mainly because it is still too expensive for my college student budget, but the episodes that stand out clearly in my mind are the more ‘shipper’ episodes.
As for the Danny/Lindsay relationship, yes I was happy when I saw the preview for and episode of Not what it looks like. I do like the relationship, if there even is one, which I think there is but anyway… The way I see it is the disliked each other, they respected each other, they became friends(or friendly) then she pushed away, he stayed put, pool table, condom spray, love handles, NOTHING, hints, hints, nothing permanent, but that’s on the writers so we will see what we get in the coming months OR next season.
Someone mentioned Flack not liking Lindsay…but I see it as the other way around. Yea she left the hospital with Danny after Charge of this post, but Mac had told them that they didn’t need to be there, and it was Danny who offered to drive her home. Which as a girl living in the city, if someone you trust offers to drive you home at night you take it. Or at least that’s what’s been drilled into my head. Just the way they teased each other about the phone numbers, wine, laughing Larry, and many others, I see them as being on friendly terms.
Any way this is an epic, but I finally got sick of lurking, and decided to start posting, and well procrastination got the best of me so now it’s back to homework, and CSI:Ny in the background
Yes, I know some say she complained about having to do the dirty work or ‘the new girl stuff’ as she called it, but I didn’t really see it as complaining. In Bad Beat when she said it had to stop it seemed light hearted to me. She and Mac had this playful banter kinda going and that sort of was followed up with when she joked with him about getting into the pool of lube. As for Manhattan Manhunt, I can see why she would want to work that, she was still the new girl and felt she had to prove herself. And yes in season three she ran away from the crime scene in silent night, but I think we have to remember that in season 2 the whole ‘my 3 friends from high school were murdered and I was the only survivor’ wasn’t a story line, or it was one in the works.
As for her being selfish in season 2 I really didn’t see it. She seemed to be out for the greater good of her coworkers and new friends. (I know not all coworkers are friends, but I do know working crazy hours with the same set of people, and when you are with people like this group is I’d find it almost ridiculous to think that they hadn’t formed friendships, even if it was just at work, or just outside of work). When Stella was hurt, yea it bugged Lindsay and she wished there was something SHE could do, but doesn’t everyone think that? When someone you know is in trouble or pain isn’t ‘what can I do to help them?’ A thought that goes through people’s minds? As for the Aiden thing with her at the bar with everyone else, I too felt it was out of place, but it also kind of made her feel like a member of the team too. It was the end of the season, and a rough couple of episodes, not technically for her but in general, and even if they were going to remember Aiden, wouldn’t it be rude not to invite her? She did work Aiden’s case too, and the Lillian Stanwick/Pratt case was one that seemed to bug her, at least that’s what o thought, so the fact that case was resolved could be another reason as to why she was there.
Now for season three, again I didn’t have a problem with her until the middle, I didn’t mind her in the beginning, and I didn’t mind her too much in the end, but the middle she urked me! In the beginning, she was the same as the season before, and at the end she seemed to be becoming herself again, not that the writers have a set self for her yet, but she settled back to the way I remember her. I haven’t watched the third season as much as the second, mainly because it is still too expensive for my college student budget, but the episodes that stand out clearly in my mind are the more ‘shipper’ episodes.
As for the Danny/Lindsay relationship, yes I was happy when I saw the preview for and episode of Not what it looks like. I do like the relationship, if there even is one, which I think there is but anyway… The way I see it is the disliked each other, they respected each other, they became friends(or friendly) then she pushed away, he stayed put, pool table, condom spray, love handles, NOTHING, hints, hints, nothing permanent, but that’s on the writers so we will see what we get in the coming months OR next season.
Someone mentioned Flack not liking Lindsay…but I see it as the other way around. Yea she left the hospital with Danny after Charge of this post, but Mac had told them that they didn’t need to be there, and it was Danny who offered to drive her home. Which as a girl living in the city, if someone you trust offers to drive you home at night you take it. Or at least that’s what’s been drilled into my head. Just the way they teased each other about the phone numbers, wine, laughing Larry, and many others, I see them as being on friendly terms.
Any way this is an epic, but I finally got sick of lurking, and decided to start posting, and well procrastination got the best of me so now it’s back to homework, and CSI:Ny in the background
PerfectAnomaly
Resident Smart Ass
That would be something co-workers would make small talk about too. And when talking about Drew's gift, Lindsay thought Stella was dating Drew. If they're girlfriends outtside of work, wouldn't she know if they were dating?
Not finding someone's explanation annoying doesn't equal friendship. They're co-workers, and no one said that Stella hates Lindsay. The fact that Stella enjoys her explanation doesn't mean anything other than Stella enjoys her explanation.
Lindsay called to give an update to Stella, not unusual since Stella is her superior. As for Stella calling Lindsay "kiddo," when I was 25 I worked in an office with a lot of people who had been working there as long or longer than I had been alive. I got called "kiddo" a lot. I was not "friends" with any of them, even though I got along with them at work and we were friendly to each other during the day. I'm not saying Stella is that old, but I see the "kiddo" as an obvious attempt to show that Stella is older than Lindsay. Something that needs to be done, IMO, since they don't look like there's a big age difference.
I didn't see anything other than Lindsay doing her job. Or in the case of helping Adam with the puzzle, not doing her job.
They've only focused on it as two co-workers and nothing more, IMO.
I don't see a huge amount of female bonding or mentoring going on between these two at all. The scenes you described are definitely canon, but the two of them being "girlfriends" is up for interpretation and is not canon.
Stella could just as easily like another female character, so I don't really see that as a reason Lindsay specifically should stay.
carolina
Lab Technician
the fresness, lightens, brightness or however you call it is not that she wore pastel colors, but it is, at least in my case, in the attitude or backround she provides.
all of them are bad-ass, street-smart, brooding New Yorkers with tough lifes. she brought a totally different views and reactions and backround to the show. thats why I think she brightened up the show.
I have another reason
Lindsay should stay because there are people who like her
roximonoxide
Lab Technician
I don't think anyone mistook that sentiment to be about Lindsay's wardrobe... anyhow... I just don't get what all this "lightness" and "freshness" is about and frankly it makes me wonder if we're talking about Lindsay or tampon commercials.
If I'm watching CSI NY I kind of go into the show with the understanding that it's a crime drama, a fairly graphic one at that, which deals primarily with capital crime in homicide. I'm not exactly turning to it for lighthearted fun and hearty chuckles. In fact if it were taken with any less seriousness than it is now, I would think it could border on seriously offensive.
That being said, even if you want to argue that the show needs "lightheartedness" and "freshness" and this somehow comes across in her small town, middle-America look, I find it hard to understand how she was so "fresh" when her personality was a patch work of test characters that seem to be the writers and Anna's version of 'throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-hope-something-sticks'. And I seriously struggle with the notion that she intended to be 'lighthearted' when they decide to unnecessarily cram some unjustified angst down our throats with her little emotional meltdowns and and woe-is-me flashbacks.
I hear people say she was fresh and different amongst all these "brooding new yorkers" as you put it, but did she not also have her Big Secret, which she spent more than her fair shake of time brooding about?
The only thing I can justify as being 'fresh' is that she seems to open up a fresh can of new personality every other episode or when she just wouldn't really fit well with this episodes plot if she were the same girl she was last week.