Veronica Mars ***Spoilers***

Great episode. We finally have some proof that even though the Pi Sigs are typical frat boys, they are NOT a gang of organized rapists. We also have some proof that the Lilith house biatches are using these rapes to try to get the fraternities thrown off campus and forward their own political agenda.

I find it very telling that Parker got pissed about V proving that the Pi Sig haunted house had nothing to do with Claire's rape. V was so right when she said "Wanting to have someone nailed to the wall just to get them nailed to the wall isn't about justice, it's about vengeance. And besides, don't you want the person that ACTUALLY DID THIS TO YOU PUNISHED?!?!" Plus the comment "Oh, here's the Greek Tragic Chorus of Feminism" was spot on with those biatches. I want whomever is the real culprit put away for good, but you don't go around making out all men to be rapists because of the actions of a few, dang it!!! Good for you Veronica!

Once again, another Big Lebowski reference "Whoa! Hey! Careful man, there's a beverage here!" Only it was a bottle of H2O, not a White Russian, and it was Logan fromagging on his g/f, not two big guys hauling her into a limo for some rich dude to show her a severed toe!!!! I hope Jeff Bridges guest stars at some point this season!!!

It was SO GREAT to see Enrico Colantoni working with Laura San Giacomo again. Just Shoot Me! Was one of my favorite shows and it got the WKRP treatment--it was so popular they kept on changing the day/times it aired to shore up other shows and then it lost its core audience. Her character's storyline was sad and tragic, and at the same time, the sparks between her chracter and Keith Mars' were quite cool. Irony of ironies, her husband wasn't cheating on her.

The other storyline involving Charlie Stone and the jerk reporter was also rather sad. It would be nice for Logan to have a brother and some reasonable sense of family. I found out I had an older half brother about 5 years ago and I can understand the conflicted emotions he's going through. Like Logan, I sought to connect with my half-brother, but unlike him, I was successful. I hope this storyline gets revisited this season.
 
While again, overall I can't disagree with you that Veronica obviously did the right thing, I can't help but sympathise with the Lilith House women. And frankly I find the way you constantly refer to them as "biatches" or whatever a bit insulting. No matter what, these women were raped and they have a lot of anger. Misdirected by a few of the leaders no doubt, but very likely in a lot of pain. And just like it would be unfair to shut down all the Frats because of one rapist, I feel it's also unfair to condemn the whole of Lilith House because the leaders may or may not have an agenda.

On another note, I hope they bring Laura San Giacomo back again. Clearly her character's marriage is in trouble if she was so hopeful that she had an excuse to end it. I can't see it lasting much longer.

Poor Logan just can't seem to get a break. I hope his brother forgives him and he gets a shot at having a normal family member to be around for a change.

And yes, anything Big Lebowski is good. :)
 
I don't discount that some of their members were raped. I use the term to refer to the leaders that are using these victims to forward their own agenda. The Lilith house group isn't about justice--they're about vengeance against any male. I don't consider the victims of the crime to biatches--I consider those in LH that are using this as an excuse to advance their agenda to be. Note the distinction, Baba.

Not every one of the members of the Lilith House was raped, nor was every victim a member said house either. In fact, the impression that I have is that Nisha, the leader of this bunch, was going out and actively recruiting the victims of this deranged criminal over to their cause, all under the guise of *helping* the victim of this crime--something I consider dispicable.
 
And yet still I find your use of the term offensive.

And you don't know that this woman Nisha has an agenda. Supicions are one thing, but so far there is no proof of that. I'm not saying I like her, or her methods. And I don't like the Fratboys either. They took an opportunity (many, actually) to respond maturely and yet they chose the most offensive method almost everytime in their responses. They're no less reprehensible in my book.

Edited to add: And perhaps if you'd made the distinction in your post to begin with, you wouldn't have had to make it now. Regardless, I still feel the same way I did before.
 
I don't particularly consider LH's responses to be all that mature either. Rather than try to be reasonable, the get all militant and angry and want to prosecute everyone with a Y-chromosome for the actions of a few. I don't expect you to feel any differently, but at the same time I call that kind of behavior biatchy, just like the Frat boys behaviors are @$$holey. 2 sides of the same freaking coin if you ask me....
 
Maybe. But at least many of the Lilith gals have a reason to mistrust men. Like I said, I think they're misguided... but can you honestly blame them? They're young and many of them have just had their idealism and sense of self-worth shattered. I think a little irrational behaviour would be classified as a normal reaction. I personally would rather see them react with anger rather than self-loathing or fear, to be honest.

The guys, on the other hand, are just acting like jerks because they can. The best offense is a good offense, as it were.

Anyway, I'm guessing this is an academic argument, since I'm obviously representing the female side while you're on the male end. I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. ;)
 
Far be it from me to defend Dick Casablancas, but he did make a point when he said "Because of those Lilith House chicks, we're all being treated like we are rapists.", which is where I say "Time out." Groping and being jerks is one thing, but actually violating someone is another.

The main leaders that are screaming their heads off about it the most aren't necessarily the victims--they are people like Nisha (the newspaper editor) and the nose-ring girl. The ones that have the most right to be angry aren't the politicos--but rather the actual victims, like Parker. I don't like seeing the politicos use the victims to advance their own agenda. That's not misguided, Baba, that is just plain exploitation and it is WRONG.

As someone that has a couple of college female friends that were raped and had to help deal with the aftermath of it, I can tell you that there are groups, like LH, that tried to use them to advance some kind of political cause when these women needed support, compassion, and justice. Even Veronica warned Parker about Nisha--with good reason. We've seen that she's not above Yellow Journalism for the sake of political gain--which makes her no different than the extreme liberals or the extreme conservatives in the press here in the US depending upon which media you subscribe to.

About the only thing I think the LH girls did right was the mousetraps on the gropable parts. Those guys did deserve the bruised hands. However, anyone that has been to some of those fraternity/sorrority haunted houses knows that some groping goes. I'm not saying those that were groped deserved it, but I am saying that in that environment, it is known that it can happen and those that enter do so at their own risk. Just like those that do the groping run the risk of getting the snot beat outta them by some gal's angry boyfriend, getting slapped on the face or getting their hand caught in mousetrap.
 
BabaOReilly said:
I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. ;)
Click to expand...
I agree, can you agree to disagree on this one?

I'm aware that this episode was clearly sensitive and I’m all for a heavy debate, however the points have been made. I'm not asking for anyone to stop discussing the episode, I’m just asking for the discussion to be toned down a little. :)
 
Okay, would just like to say that I discovered Veronica during the summer, tho I really didn't have any idea what was going on, 'cause I didn't see the beginning eps. it's a good show! That is all. ;)
 
Well, after last week's episode, we know that the guy that was with Claire (the blonde girl in the middle) is her BOYFRIEND. Which means that either her boyfriend is a rapist, or Claire was FAKING what happened to her in order to get the Lilith House's political goals advanced. Curiouser and curiouser.

The case wtih the bone marrow transplant and the dean was a bit off-kilter. I didn't appreciate the way he led Keith Mars down the wrong path. At least the bio-Dad got Keith off the hook with that @$$, Sheriff Lamb.

The Casino robbery case was cool. Shades of Point Break, references to Jesus Quintana from The Big Lebowski and Tony Montana from Scarface all throughout! LOL!!! I'm just glad that smart-mouthed brat of that rent-a-cop got her comeuppance. I have a daughter that age, and I'd never let her mouth off like that to anyone. I'm just glad Veronica got the neckalce back.

Something's not right with Logan. That much we can tell. I don't know what to think. We'll find out more on that tomorrow. I also read in the TV Chronolog of the Houston Chronicle that Harmony Chase (the character played by Laura San Giacomo) will be back for another 3 episode arc. WHOO HOO!!! In fact, both LSG and Enrico Colantoni are lobbying for more episodes and story arcs with her in the future. As a long-time Just Shoot Me! fan, this is MOST WELCOME. Enrico and Laura had great chemistry as Elliott DiMauro and Maya Gallo on JSM, and it still comes through, big time, in their Veronica Mars roles! WHOO HOO!!!

VINDICATION!!!! Claire FAKED her rape as part of a plot with those Lilith House B-words in order to get Dick's Fraternity kicked off Campus. Veronica writes a story about it, and the Angry B-Word Yellow Journalist GETS FIRED From The Hearst Free Press! WHOO HOO HOO!!! I WAS RIGHT!!!! IN YOUR FACE!!! :devil:!!!!
 
Last night was filled with Big Lebowski references--Brant (as opposed to Brandt) the Waylon Smithers-fawning valet, the trophy husband in the Millionaire, the slutty young lover in the leopard spotted bikini, the faked kidnapping of an heiress, I was laughing my head off.

Chip Diller took one for the team, so to speak. While funny, it once again shows that the LH group is not about helping women, but about vengeance. Veronica game them a good rebuke to say the least.

It's pretty clear that despite the LH group faking some of the rapes (CSI folks should note that V mentioned there was no hair, no semen, no DNA, no forensic evidence whatsoever that any of the LH's alleged victims were raped), there is either a copycat rapist or a real rapist still out there and he/she is possibly stalking Veronica.

The actions of the LH make Law Enforcement not take the crime seriously because of people crying wolf. That hurts women that are actual victims of rape, and it also ruins the reputations of some guys that are just being your typical college frat guys. To quote Danny McCoy from Las Vegas "Ladies there is a difference between a guy just being a jerk or an idiot and sexual harassment/rape. Use some common sense please."

Someone in the main cast is going to die. It's not V, and I wouldn't think they'd dare kill Keith. However, the top money is on either Logan or Mac. My money is on Mac since the actress is having some success on the showtime series Big Love. As for the real rapist, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the assistant to her Criminology professor.
 
Poor Logan. God Veronica is hard on the guy. And I wasn't convinced when she said she loved him when he asked her. I mean, he isn't perfect, but she's so tough on him. She needs to loosen up a bit.
 
You know I just thought of something. I don't think the girls had anything to do with Chip's unfortunate foray into Easter. When Veronica dropped all those innuendoes at the girl with the dreadlocks and piercings, she just looked confused, and as she walked away, Veronica looked confused. While I'm sure they didn't have a problem with what happened, I don't think the Lilith women were in on that one.
 
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