Vegetarian thread

[Elsie]

My take on things: Sorry, it's a bit long.

It is interesting the different views people have about vegetarianism. It is certainly true that both vegetarians and meat eaters can either be healthy or unhealthy depending on their choices, and I would probably disagree that vegetarians on the whole are healthier as it surely depends on the person! Anyway, I eat meat and all dairy products and have no problem with that, surely a simply balanced diet is best for overall health...

I would say that 60% of the food I eat is organic, and 90% of the meat I buy is from local sources, where I could even check the conditions of the farm if I wanted to. I also get my eggs from the farm shop, and can see and touch the very (happy looking) chickens that produce them! My Dad and my Uncle are vegetarians, so I have some experience of vegetarian diets (and in the past of horrid faux-meat meals), but now they buy fresh local produce, as they also know that this is the best for a healthy diet, also they have to take great care to ensure they are eating a balanced diet and getting all the right vitamins and minerals.

If people are concerned about animal welfare (and it's right that people should be) then I suggest that they use their purchasing power (or parental pursuation) to buy the best and most sustainable produce that they can. It's fair to say that if you buy really cheap food it's not going to be great!

I have also (about 10 years ago) seen an animal being slaughtered and then eaten it for my dinner! Yes, it's not pleasant, but it was done quickly and efficiently, and if I had to do it myself I'm pretty sure I could do...

One last thought that I had, if everyone went vegetarian surely the majority of these animals that people are so keen to protect would actually die out? Farmers don't usually raise animals for fun, if we weren't eating them there would be no reason for them to be bred?

 

[allmaple]

quoth_the_raven said:
but we are smarter

a subjective statement plus intelligence has no bearing on what your diet is

Animals have to eat other animals because plants in the wild aren't enough for them.

not sure if im misunderstanding you or you just dont understand physiology. carnivores cant eat plants, not because plants arent enough for them. through their evolutionary pathway they can only process flesh and their digestive systems cannot extract nutrients from plants. this is why vegetarian diets are not the best choice for pet dogs and cats (although dogs can tolerate it better than cats)

as for people, we have partially lost our ability to process plant material. most of it is undigestible. but we didnt have the selective pressures of carnivorous species so we cant digest everything we need from meat either. its also an evolutionary by-product that we crave sugar, fat, and alcohol

 

[Finch]

allmaple, that's some really informative stuff. I wasn't aware of quite a bit of the information presented. You learn something new every day.

If I may add in my two cents as well...

quoth_the_raven said
Millions of years ago we did the same thing, but we are smarter than animals and have a civilized (for the most part )

Personally, I don't think one should be believed to be uncivilized in any way because they eat meat. (Though I'm sure your post isn't meant to be taken that way. --Just stating my opinion on the matter.) But I do understand what you're saying. Things have changed, and we no longer need to be tied down by the notion that meat is the only thing humans should eat. By no means. A vegetarian diet has many advantages, but so does a meat diet.

I did find a few articles on the internet that might be of interest to some. This site claims that human beings were never meant to eat meat, and it's not part of our natural diet. However this site claims that consumming meat has many advantages, and even claims that there are some things that a vegetarian diet just can't provide. (Again, these are claims. It's not always fact. --Have to keep a critical view when reading these.)

I believe there was a post above stating that someone in their family (or a friend) wasn't able to give blood because they were a vegetarian. That might have something to do with the fact that not all vegetarian/vegan diets contain enough iron which the blood needs to survive. Not to say that all vegetarians/vegans don't have enough iron in their blood, because that simply isn't the case. However a diet of meat can provide quite a bit more iron, which might prove ideal for giving blood. (Though I'm not a medical professional, so it's purely speculation)

quoth_the_raven said
Farmed animals produce about 130 times as much excrement as the entire human population of the United States, and since factory farms don't have sewage treatment systems as our cities and towns do, this concentrated slop ends up polluting our water, destroying our topsoil, and contaminating our air

Actually, it's very common for farmers to use the excrement from cattle to fertilize their fields. It's an inexpensive and efficient way to fertilize the ground, using natural materials. This site is an example of how animal manure is used to fertilize the soil.

From website
Livestock manure is an excellent fertilizer for the soil, providing such nutrients as nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. Manure application can also benefit the soil's water holding capacity and tilth

However, like any method used, there are disadvantages as well, including contaminated groundwater which was stated in your initial post, quoth. Although that also depends on the situation, and the outcomes are varied.

So in short, there are always two sides to things, and it's always a matter of fact and opinion. Even though I eat meat, I have no problem with a vegetarian diet, as both have their advantages and disadvantages. It will always be up for debate.

 

[quoth_the_raven]

allmaple said:

quoth_the_raven said:
but we are smarter

a subjective statement plus intelligence has no bearing on what your diet is

I simply meant that animals haven't formed an entire uptopia with restaurants, gas stations, clothing stores, etc. We have. We have a better level of comprehension and it's been proven. I'm not saying animals are stupid because believe me, I know my dogs understand english :lol: They're incredible creatures, they just can't go and order a veggie platter from a menu at a restaurant.

And don't worry speed_cochrane, I knew what you meant I don't think they're uncivilized at all, it's just the only way they know how to survive in the wild. But humans know better and we don't need meat to survive, so there's no sense in us killing animals for it because we don't need it. Hunting is also in my opinion ridiculous because what's the point? Sport isn't the proper word for it, I think it's just senseless killing. My grandpa is a hunter and I can't look at his trophies on his walls.

I fully respect and support anyone's decision on whether or not to become a vegetarian, though, because everyone is different. We all have different tastes and you can't be forced into something you don't want to do (especially when it involves what you eat). I highly encourage people to try a vegetarian diet but I'm not going to push anyone to do so

 

[Zan1781]

This post isn't to anyone in particular, so QTR, it isn't aimed at you. You were just the last person to say something before I posted.

Actually, you know what? I'm not going to post what I was going to post, because I'm sure that I'll just end up getting attacked in the end. I think that this thread was originally going to be about vegetarian practices and and recipes, and it turned into one massive debate. Vegetarian is a hot topic, and I understand that, but... I feel like I'm choking on data. I just... hmm.

I'm a vegetarian, but I don't have anything negative to say about people who eat meat. I switched over to vegetarianism for my own reasons, and I don't try to convince my friends and family to switch. I have access to university related articles, peer reviewed journals, and other scientific data, as well, and I've seen one article contradict another article. That's why vegetarianism is so controversial. What happens in the US may not happen in Finland, or whereever, and what happens in New York State probably doesn't even happen in Texas.

So... I can understand that you'd all like to debate vegetarianism, but perhaps we should have two threads or something. One for the debate, and one for the recipes/tips, like with healthy eating. It just seems like some people are really suffocating the debate, and now my head hurts!

 

[midnightbellzza]

Okay, my roommate decided that because I decided to be a vegetarian I had to write down every single thing I eat. She also made me do internet research then write a shopping list. I'm finding it quite annoying.

And yesterday, my friend gave me a pizza pop with meat in it, I spent an hour picking all the meat out of it! Because hse was too lazy to get me something else!