Re: Season 8 Spoiler Discussion - There's Nothing You Can't Do In New
Dude. I love that there are myriad differing opinions on all matters, and that the boards here provide a forum for discussing them. There have been many great, ardent, articulate exchanges.
You do not seem to be interested in responding or joining debate at all, but rather prefer making periodic, thwarted ship-based strafing rants. I think it is rather unfortunate to see the forum used in this way.
(...btw, perhaps Shipper Central/NY Debates might be a good destination for your next run?)
Since Jonah arrived both the ratings and the all important demographic have plummeted that's how the show ended up nearly cancelled in the first place because to put it mildly 99.9999999999999% of the audience hates her guts and that
is never going to change not now, not ever.
Not gonna bother to get into this again, nor I Am Legion presumptions. This is not even a matter of perception. This is a ridiculous assertion (to put it mildly
).
BTW. In case you remain absolutely uncertain whether or not you have made your point about how you feel about Jo, I can assure you that you've been clear
.
I'm going to apologize for this next bit in
advance to save time
There is no need to apologize for having a different point of view. It might be nice to get the impression that a willingness to engage in dialogue is also present.
but it needs saying as for Jonah being closer to Mac then Stella what a load of rubbish your coming out with, firstly count....
...Perhaps the reason that there is a larger body of material to reference is due that MK was on the show for six years, where SW has but one season
. Within S7 season, I think the writers have established a fun and interesting dynamic between Mac and Jo in running things. Part of the fun has been in watching them get to know one another and figure out how to work and play together.
Competition also seems an odd way to read the show. Jo & Stella are different characters, different personalities, each spurring a different kind of interaction with Mac, be it close or conflicting on any given occasion.
Mind you, if you wish to suggest that Jo is in a league of her own, I don't think the character of Jo would disagree
Me, I think Jo and Mac are fun to watch, as is Jo with
everyone on the team. Funny how all the other characters seem to fall to the wayside as inconsequential in the face of ship tinged chat.
For the good of the show Jonah needs to go now andwe need our Stella back even sooner.
Nice :lol:, the apparent delight and satisfaction you seem to take in giving Jo a slur of a nick name that lets you continue to snipe just by mentioning her at all :shifty:
.
What really seems to burn some folk is that NY (and Mac in particular) do not, in fact, need Stella at all.
...the truth is TPTB screwed up massively by letting MK go and have done nothing but worsen an already awful situation with the Jonah character take a look around the net there are fans who have watched since the pilot episode who are quite openly stating they would have prefered the show had been cancelled (no not just me) then have to watch Jonah Danvill in S8.
There is no fault and no blame. It's business, a teevee show, not a purveyor of personal shipping above all else.
TPTB were assuming that Melina was going to continue on the show in S7. They had written several scripts for production with this in mind. MK declined to continue. TPTB had to move forward, and did remarkably well in signing someone like Ward to the show.
I get the impression that it would not matter to some who the character was stepping in to succeed Stella, nor who was cast to play her, there would be much the same discontent & even abuse from some quarters (safely hurled from the anonymity of cyberspace). In that light alone it seems absurd to pile such on SW personally, when just about any actor would have faced the same.
For some to also wish for the end of the show rather than for the show to continue when changes occur might speak less to a loyalty, and more to a fickle following, and additionally to a lack of respect for MK and her choice to move on in her life and career.
One can always change the channel if entirely disenchanted with NY. Why wish it cancelled altogether but for some misplaced sense of spite?
MK, SW, and those who make the show do not owe anyone anything.
To be completely honest, NY was lucky as hell to snag a big name actress like Sela Ward considering how long in the tooth the whole franchise is, plus all of the other factors I mentioned above. Whether or not people think her addition helped or hurt the show creatively, it seems misguided to place all of the blame for the show's decline on her shoulders (or, alternately, to suggest that Melina was the only reason for the show's past success).
Agree.
I also think that the show would have been in danger of getting cancelled even if Melina still worked on the show. I believe that Sela has made the show a lot better by bringing a fresh vibe to the episodes.
Related to the above, I have to agree with this too.
The past few seasons, 5 & 6 especially, were extremely hit and miss, and mediocre on average. MK was on the show when it got the boot to Fridays in the first place. SW was on the show when it managed to eke out a renewal despite the move to the Friday death slot - neither take provides much substantial fodder.
What I can say is that IMO the show had felt in a rut the past few seasons, and had MK remained on the show, I don't think NY would have been obliged to take a hard look at itself, and make changes, in the way that her departure necessitated. It's entirely possible that the show not only would have found itself facing the same cancellation/renewal scenario, but that for lack of innovation and change it may well have lost. Who knows. I like the change. I like the energy. I like the opportunities.
Someone mentioned about Danny being in second in command which I think is a fantastic idea, it is ashame the producers didn't think about the idea before season 7 and they could have hired an actress who could have played a lower grade CSI which would have saved money and could have been real fun.
...like Haylen Becall? NY's last venture was a mixed bag
. Coulda been interesting to try again, but I'm glad they did continue with their previous structure.
In other examples, how about Riley on Vegas? Heck, even Ray supposedly started at a lower CSI level; didn't seem to matter to some folks. Or Seaver on Criminal Minds? A mixed response to the pretense her character was introduced by. (And talk about facing an uphill battle as an actress, walking into that production, after all that had transpired. Some liked her, some didn't, and there is little doubt that the Cook/Brewster bruha compounded any difficulties Rachel Nichols was going to be faced with playing a new character regardless). At least with Vegas and NY it was the choice of each WP and MK to leave.
NY did damned well to snag someone of Ward's caliber willing to step in on short notice. She is someone who did immediately provide some weight, balance and stability to the cast, and roster of characters, in a way I'm not wholly convinced that an in-house bumping up of Messer and adding a lower level newbie would have done.
For me, Messer's strength on the show has not really been as an anchor but as a character NY could use as a wild card, heading into gunfights w/o a vest, disobeying directives, not reporting his gun or badge missing, supporting the blu flu etc. That said, he's really not quite the man he used to be (which could be fine if only there were a clearer and more deliberate picture of who he now is).
(And good gawd, but for the life of me I could not imagine a less impressive incarnation for NY than one where
Lindsay would in essence be the leading and senior female character
:rommie
.
I am glad that NY did write the new assistant supervisory role as a female character. NY is very much a boys' club as it is. Especially with Angell and Maka gone even as recurring realm characters. I also think that balance of male/female co-leads is one NY intended to keep after MK left (sorry Danny).
I agree that Carmine can shoulder a helluvalot more than NY has given him since S5, and in that respect too I could see Danny being given a story or opportunity career wise such as the Sergeant's exam might bring. I think that has the potential to be interesting because of the personal dilemma he will face, less for the professional challenge implied. That it was devised as, and will likely continue to be a DL device does somewhat dampen my enthusiasm for the scenario
.
So, sure, I could see Danny being a second in command as interesting if only because it does not, to me, seem a good or natural fit for him, but I think I'd have liked that more as a deliberate arc, much as Morgan on CM stepped into for awhile; I'd prefer that because Danny would get more specific focus than simply a new background structure would likely provide. I guess the common ground is that I think a deliberate arc of some sort would serve Messer better than modifying the hierarchy in his favor.
Bottom line, I'd like Danny to get more focus anyways, and I also like Jo as second in command, and I'd not like material for one to come at the expense of the other.
Without sounding presumptious I do think that when TPTB hire an award winning actress like Sela Ward they expect some kind of success in the ratings and not find the programme on the verge of cancellation.
I think the move to a Friday slot was among the biggest hurdles NY had to overcome. I think the show would have been on the verge whether it were SW in S7 or had MK remained.
I again suggest that there would be little expectation for SW to
increase the ratings, especially with everything else it was facing. I think stability in turbulent waters was the first goal. Similar to Vegas & Fishburne, for example. I think Vegas as the mothership had the more difficult challenge in losing WP, to be honest. He's kind of a papa bear for the whole dang franchise.
So I think it would just be interesting to know what the producers have in store for Season 8 - will it be the last season? will it be a shorter season? will Mac run off in the sunset with Stella? will Stella come back for an episode of two (of course that is if Melina will return)?
I cannot wait to see.
Some of those questions are more for the network to answer, less the producers. Who knows what the ep order is, or whether all will air, despite what's ordered.
As for the show, will NY use the current roster they've signed or shove them to the side in favor of catering to a small percentage of frustrated shippers? Will NY concern itself with a sunset romance as a possible exit for the show, or will they continue to focus on Crime Scene Investigating in New York City?
I cannot wait to see either
.
The fact that the show didn't completely tank in the ratings in a bad time slot in S7 and had some comparable ratings to episodes in S6 speak volumes as to what Sela Ward brought to the table, IMO. ....With a new character on board there are more places to take the show that they wouldn't have had if Melina had stayed.
Agree.
Re: bringing in an "award winning" actress with the expectation that the show will suddenly do better than ever - TPTB needn't have looked any farther than the original CSI to see how that works out. Laurence Fishburne is nothing if not a high profile actor, and his addition to the series didn't do much to slow the show's steady decline following Petersen's departure. They couldn't expect anybody to suddenly bring millions more viewers to the show, and I doubt that was the case.
Thank you. Agree.
Bringing in an established, talented, recognizable actor is its own reward, in some ways, but it ultimately comes down to the writing whether the character is a success or not. ....I feel like Jo added a new dynamic to the team, but otherwise her presence didn't upset the overall balance the series has had for seven seasons.)
Agree again.
However, an audience is probably more likely to give change a chance when they see that the person coming in is a respected, established actor. It lends a bit of legitimacy to the character before the episodes even start airing. I mean, think about how many of us were relieved when we read that Sela was coming in to replace Melina - even before we saw the character on the show, it seemed less worrisome knowing that they were replacing her with someone good.
I think there's truth in that. Agree yet again.
