Season 12 Spoiler Lab Discussion

[PraetorCorvinus]

I really don't see Liz, she's moved on in her career. Or Billy returning back to the show. Maybe Billy for some "guest" spots, but not like he used to be as a full time CSI. And on the character Raymond Langston. He was a pathologist, a surgeon has a medical degree and an author. He didn't just walk in off the street, he was already had a career going on, and Grissom offered him this job in "One To Go" because of his brilliant expertise. What was so beguiling about him was how the whole team "embraced" him form the onset

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Langston

Why do you choose not to "get it" when people talk about Ray? He had ZERO experience as a CSI and that's what people took issue with. You don't come in as a newbie in a profession you have ZERO experience in and be treated like the leader of the lab. It shouldn't have happened that way at all and was Langston's undoing and also the team's undoing because some of the members have been seriously comprimised as characters to accomodate this character's unrealistic fast tracking just because the actor portraying Ray was the lead actor in the show.

Also, you might want to find a less laughable source than Wikipedia to use to illustrate your point.

Exactly. Many thought his best scenes were with Doc because those were the most believable. I don't think anyone questioned his being intelligent or a highly skilled medical doctor. The issue was in regards to his sudden expertise in forensics. Especially the kind that did not relate to the human body - which Langston was shown to have no previous experience with given his past professions.

And I honestly don't know about Liz or Billy. Can any of us really say that they've moved on and will never return ever? I don't think any of us can read their minds and can say this with 100% certainty. After all, a month ago we were so certain Laurence was coming back...

 

[Desertwind]

I didn't find that laughable, but interesting, some fans don't, and some don't still realize that he was experienced and lent that expertise to the team. He didn't have ZERO experience, but mega experience and he was hired in this position [by Grissom] to help out the team which he did. He never bossed or pushed anyone around on the team. Nick was very stern wth him at times which was great. It calmed him down. I thought Nick, Sara, Cath and Doc were especially receptive, and kind to him. Everyone perceives every character differently, and that's fine, but I thought he fit in fantastically from the onset. If others didn't then that's their business. I hope they do find a good replacement, but who would that be? All actors that would take on this role would also want the $$$ that comes with it:bolian: I think Michael Keaton would be fantastic, he's multi-talented, but then again a big name and the perks that go with it:hugegrin:

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I didn't find that laughable, but interesting, some fans don't, and some don't still realize that he was experienced and lent that expertise to the team. He didn't have ZERO experience, but mega experience and he was hired in this position [by Grissom] to help out the team which he did. He never bossed or pushed anyone around on the team. Nick was very stern wth him at times which was great. It calmed him down. I thought Nick, Sara, Cath and Doc were especially receptive, and kind to him. Everyone perceives every character differently, and that's fine, but I thought he fit in fantastically from the onset. If others didn't then that's their business. I hope they do find a good replacement, but who would that be? All actors that would take on this role would also want the $$$ that comes with it:bolian: I think Michael Keaton would be fantastic, he's multi-talented, but then again a big name and the perks that go with it:hugegrin:

It's NOT a matter of opinion or perception that he had no experience as a CSI. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. I don't care who hired him or how much his co-workers loved him or if he had rainbows coming out of his ass 24/7. That has nothing to do with his lack of experience in that particular job. Did he have experience and knowledge obtained from his past professions that was valuable to the team? Yeah. But he came in to the lab knowing nothing about processing crime scenes and doing other tasks necessary for the position of a CSI.

 

[kaylyne]

It's NOT a matter of opinion or perception that he had no experience as a CSI. That is a fact that cannot be disputed. I don't care who hired him or how much his co-workers loved him or if he had rainbows coming out of his ass 24/7. That has nothing to do with his lack of experience in that particular job.

Exactly. Nick trying (and not succeeding) to suppress a laugh at Ray going out to their first scene with a nice tie & good shoes on should be proof enough. He had absolutely NO experience in being a CSI and it's extremely illogical that in the 2 1/2 seasons he was there that he would even be allowed at a scene on his own without any type of supervision. So for him to be out at his own scenes and all of a sudden being the one that every one turns to for answers in that short time is laughable - and the main reason that most people ended up being annoyed by the character.

 

[Desertwind]

But he learned quickly being brilliant. He learned about dusting for fingerprints from Nick, and Nick was kind and willing to show him the ropes. Also the rest of them too. TPTB hired him to replace Grissom, and I remember one scene where Cath told him "he was off the clock" but he stayed afterwads to learn things on his own. My daughter watched the last two finales and stated "boy the way she look's at him", so intrigued with him, that's not my opinion but what the writers showed the fans, and actually he did have rainbows coming out his arse, funny you mentioned that. And he wasn't hired to stand around in the background grunting and groaning and going "Duh I just don't get it" quite the contrary, he was a quick study" and learned from them and them from him. You'd have to write and ask the writers why this happened so fast, because it's TV show I know that "most" fans did recieve him and like his portrayal from the beginning. Of all the people I speak with, I haven't heard one negative or anyone saying he was "annoying" remark, only sadness and disbelief that he "quit". I do hope we hear soon about the other cast members and who's signed on and who bailed. what's the hold-up? If he didn't renew his contract then wouldn't the rest of the peeps have been in that room at the same time. AH, to be a fly on the wall when that was coming down:wtf:

 

[Smokey]

Here's what happened. He's a character on a TV show that is written to entertain and does not necessarily follow the guidelines of real life. Arguing over what the writers wrote as though it was real doesn't really make any sense.

 

[Desertwind]

I did say "because it was a TV show" and know that it isn't real, I was just responding to fans who wondered why things happened with the character, and added that comment

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

But he learned quickly being brillinat. He learned about dusting for fingerprints from Nick, and Nick was kind and willing to show him the ropes. Also the rest of them too. TPTB hired him to replace Grissom, and I remember one scene where Cath told him "he was off the clock" but he stayed afterwads to learn things on his own. My daughter watched the last two finales and stated "boy the way she look's at him", so intrigued with him, that's not my opinion but what the writers showed the fans, and actually he did have rainbows coming out his arse, funny you mentioned that. And he wasn't hired to stand around in the background grunting and groaning and going "Duh I just don't get it" quite the contrary, he was a quick study" and learned from them and them from him. You'd have to write and ask the writers why this happened so fast, because it's TV show I know that "most" fans did recieve him and like his portrayal from the beginning. Of all the people I speak with, I haven't heard one negative or anyone saying he was "annoying" remark, only sadness and disbelief that he "quit". I do hope we hear soon about the other cast members and who's signed on and who bailed. what's the hold-up? If he didn't renew his contract then wouldn't the rest of the peeps have been in that room at the same time. AH, to be a fly on the wall when that was coming down:wtf:

Unless you've polled every last person of the 13 million or whatever the amount of viewers are for the show, you can't say that "most" fans liked Ray as a character. Anyone who reads this board would quickly challenge you on that.

Once again you fail to recognize the difference between the actors and characters. Ray did not replace Grissiom. Catherine replaced Grissom as the supervisor. Ray filled in the opening left by Grissom as a BRAND NEW CSI. Fishburne replaced Peterson as the lead actor, but that does not translate to Ray having the experience or qualifications to lead the lab or even be called an experienced CSI.

I hope Ray learned quickly and did a good job. If not he'd be a waste of space. Again that's not remotely the same thing as being fast tracked into working solo and having other team members defer to him. Being smart and a fast learner given his expertise in other fields makes sense. Fast tracking him so that it appears he acts like the leader of the lab and that his more experienced co-workers and supervisor treat him as such is not realistic and was insulting to the characters who've been on the show since the beginning.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's the actor's fault or the writers' and other PTB's fault. It all reflects poorly on the character. There wouldn't be any character if it wasn't for the writers and PTB, so saying, "It's the writers and not the character," doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

And, yes, you thinking the entire team worshipped Ray's every move is an opinion and not a fact. Not every viewer saw it that way. In fact, it was stated in the press that viewers were intended to see the team "divided" over Ray's actions in the finale. That right there proves the writers didn't intend for viewers to see that the team was awed by Ray and loved every single thing he did.

 

[Desertwind]

I was talking about the people I know, from family, friends neighbors, co-workers and customers. My take on what they've said to me. I'm not talking about this board and what fans think of LF/or the character RL. I do know the difference, please.. If it sounds blurred from how I've posted it, then that is my fault. I do know who is who. This is about him leaving LAURENCE FISHBURNE leaving and on his character, RAYMOND LANGSTON, who never pulled rank, but quite the opposite always asked questions of them and was laid back and receptive on the learning process. I saw that he was a quick learner. And the team was in awe of him They did all defend him in the finale. Nick in "Cello And Goodbye" Ray:"do you have my back"? Nick: "Always" from the onset he embraced him and his new best friend, and didn't Doc give him a cane and hug him? Sara and him worked excellently together as did Greg "I like Ray" he stated. Cath said in "Wild Life" 'to Ray "Your ass is a work of art", Hodges and all the Labrats liked him too. and on and on. The real life peole also like him and have stated as much in YouTube, and on many talk shows. I think it will be a tough go to find another newbie that they had as much enthusiasm about

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

\ Nick: "Always" from the onset he embraced him and his new best friend, (

Nick's new best-friend? Ummmm, I don't think so. :wtf:

No one on the show is Nick's best-friend. That was Warrick and he's gone.

Langston never bossed or pulled rank on anyone? What show have you been watching?

He's told every character, including his two bosses, what to do.

I seriously don't think Petersen is coming back. As much as I love Grissom, I doubt that would happen even if it was the last season. I could see him doing the last episode or last few, but the whole season? Don't think so.

And it could be plausible that Wendy comes back. She could realize how much she loves Hodges :shifty: and wants to be with him or Ecklie calls her to come back as a CSI.

This is the world of Television.

 

[Raynn]

From Twitter:

You guys are so sweet. No, I haven't been asked back to CSI. I was just referring to some mighty good friends I made while I was there.

They need to get on that, and ask her back! It would be totally plausible, and be a good alternative to introducing a "new" face.

I could see Grissom making a guest appearance, but not returning full-time, really.

I really hope they learn from the whole Langston thing, and bring in any new people in a better way.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

No one on the show is Nick's best-friend. That was Warrick and he's gone.

So Nick will never have a best friend ever again? Never ever? That sounds so sad and lonely...

 

[modisens]

[spam]

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

From TVGuide.com's Ask Matt:

Question: I am thrilled! Laurence Fishburne is leaving CSI. I thought that the mothership of this franchise lost a lot when Grissom left, but bringing in Laurence Fishburne's character was the worst possible mistake ever. He changed the dynamic completely, and instead of an ensemble we got "The Laurence Fishburne Show." His character was imposed on the audience diminishing the show, the rest of the characters and every possible storyline. Therefore, I am very happy this nightmare is over, but is too late for CSI? During the last two seasons the ratings have substantially decreased, and several critics were referring to the upcoming season as CSI's swan song. I think the show has a lot of life left, if the writers are smart enough to build good stories around the cast that the fans used to love. For example, Criminal Minds dramatically improved when Mandy Patinkin left and Joe Mantegna replaced him. This transition was done smoothly and cleverly, totally different from the CSI one. — David

Matt Roush: Although it's a bit unseemly to be tap-dancing on any character's grave (not that they're killing off Langston as far as I know), I doubt many CSI fans will be mourning Laurence Fishburne's departure. At a pivotal point in the show's history when it needed an injection of creative energy to appease the Grissom fans (and I was one of them), instead we got a leaden character — I blame the writing more than the actor, though he was far from on his game here — that proved to be a drag on the ensemble. I can't really fault CSI for giving a new star a star's platform and visibility, but the character itself lacked authority (outside of intellectual bona fides) and he often felt an awkward fit, though I will have fond creepy memories of his violent cat-and-mouse with Bill Irwin's fiendish Nate Haskell. As for CSI's future, many industry observers are surprised CBS didn't cut one of the franchise's shows this season, with NY the one most obviously on the chopping block. Come next May, it's hard to imagine all three surviving, and the mothership's fate may hinge on who they get to replace Fishburne. Because to be honest, they're still really looking to fill Grissom's shoes, and that hasn't been accomplished yet. With Marg Helgenberger also reportedly reducing her presence further this season, the rest of the cast will need to step up. They're more than able, but CSI also needs a new headliner to make some noise.

I guess fans weren't the only ones unimpressed by Ray.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I have been thinking all season that LF would not return next season, but then he said he wasn't looking to go anywhere, so I thought he'd be back... so now I'm kind of shocked. I liked the character at times and I think LF is a brilliant actor. However, I did take issue with how the writers sometimes protrayed Ray's storylines and I am not even gonna get started on how the Haskell storyline was dragged out so long lol. I think it would have been interesting to see the dynamic between the team when some knew and some had hunches about what went down in the final showdown with Haskell, but now I guess we won't get to see that. I'm on the fence about how to feel about this to be honest.