Season 12 Spoiler Lab Discussion Part 2

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Robinjn said:
All Ray has to do to get self defense--or justifiable homicide at the very least--is to tell the truth: they fought, he subdued Haskell, put the cuff on him, Haskell goaded him by telling him he raped Gloria, that pissed him off, he cut the cuff off, a struggle ensued and whoops! Haskell fell over the railing to his death. He doesn't know what happened to the cuff. That would save his bacon, and Brass's.
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Ray lying about murdering Haskell (no matter if Haskell goaded him or not, IMO Ray beating Haskell to a pulp and tossing him over the railing doesn't equal a "struggle" and then a "whoops" fall.) to get a self defense or justifiable homicide determination doesn't redeem Brass as a character, though, and that was the original point of the whole conversation. People would still know what Brass did and it would still be wrong and reflect badly on Brass' character.
 
Perfect Anomaly said:
Robinjn said:
All Ray has to do to get self defense--or justifiable homicide at the very least--is to tell the truth: they fought, he subdued Haskell, put the cuff on him, Haskell goaded him by telling him he raped Gloria, that pissed him off, he cut the cuff off, a struggle ensued and whoops! Haskell fell over the railing to his death. He doesn't know what happened to the cuff. That would save his bacon, and Brass's.
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Ray lying about murdering Haskell (no matter if Haskell goaded him or not, IMO Ray beating Haskell to a pulp and tossing him over the railing doesn't equal a "struggle" and then a "whoops" fall.) to get a self defense or justifiable homicide determination doesn't redeem Brass as a character, though, and that was the original point of the whole conversation. People would still know what Brass did and it would still be wrong and reflect badly on Brass' character.
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Not to belabor this :), but I just wanted to say I agree with PA. Ray could plead diminished capacity, temporary insanity, or something to that effect, but there was no 'oops' involved. He wanted Haskell dead because of what he did to Gloria. Period. If he wanted to just beat him up, he could have done that with the cuffs on. Legally, 'justifiable homicide' can't be argued just because someone deserves to die, only if there is some impending threat. And while the cuffs were on, there wasn't one.

And Brass' character is forever tainted; he crossed the line, it doesn't matter why. Most people who participate in a cover-up feel that they are doing the right thing and are usually protecting someone, but that's not their decision to make; that's something for the legal system to decide. Police officers have to live by the rules; if they don't, where does it stop? I think eventually this will come back to bite him. But in the premiere I expect Ray to take total responsibility and leave Brass out of it, for now. I'm sure I'll continue to like Brass as a character, but when he accuses someone of tampering with evidence or rags on them about vigilante justice, then it will appear hypocritical and won't carry the same weight with me.

Just 9 more days; YAY!
 
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Actually, if you really want to split hairs, Ray said he would kill Haskell way before he knew what Haskell did to Gloria. He told Dr. Lady Heather that he would kill him. Like I said before, if Haskell had just kept his mouth shut, it was my feeling that Ray would've been OK with just cuffing Haskell and subduing him. But that's not what Haskell wanted. Ray played right into Haskell's hands when he told him about what he did to Gloria. There was no drama in Ray cuffing Haskell. Ray captures Haskell and saves the day--the end. Yeah, right.

Brass made an unfortunate error in judgment, period. If Ray had been given a chance to say what went down versus Brass shutting him up, the truth would've come out and all this drama could have been avoided. But again, there's not a whole lot of drama in that--is there?
 
Robinjn said:
Actually, if you really want to split hairs, Ray said he would kill Haskell way before he knew what Haskell did to Gloria. He told Dr. Lady Heather that he would kill him. Like I said before, if Haskell had just kept his mouth shut, it was my feeling that Ray would've been OK with just cuffing Haskell and subduing him. But that's not what Haskell wanted. Ray played right into Haskell's hands when he told him about what he did to Gloria. There was no drama in Ray cuffing Haskell. Ray captures Haskell and saves the day--the end. Yeah, right.

Brass made an unfortunate error in judgment, period. If Ray had been given a chance to say what went down versus Brass shutting him up, the truth would've come out and all this drama could have been avoided. But again, there's not a whole lot of drama in that--is there?
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What Ray did is on Ray, regardless of what Haskell did.

IMO, there could've been ways to bring drama without screwing with Brass' character the way they did. I do admit I'll be interested to see what they do with Brass now that he's technically a dirty cop. My guess is they'll do a half assed job of dealing with it and then forget it ever happened much like they did when Flack killed Angell's killer on NY because that's what happens with a supporting character. That's one thing that kind of annoys me with the CSI franchise as a whole. They do episodes where they shove the message that vigillante justice/covering for another co-worker is wrong down the audiences' throats and then they pretty much send the message that it's OK if you're a core member of the team.
 
Posted in the news area is a great new interview by our vegaslights with Elizabeth Harnois. Interview

She gives some nice spoilers.
ut there’s definitely a really fun banter between me and Eric Szmanda that they’re writing. It’s really fun to play and we definitely have a good chemistry in terms of that. They’ve been writing some fun stuff for us. I’d say she’s probably closest with him right now.
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I had a feeling the writers would have Greg be open to her since he was with Riley. Greg seems to be the most accepting of newer people and I think that is because he was accepted from being a Lab Rat to CSI.

She sounds really cool. I look forward to her scenes.
 
I don't think it'll be a love triangle. I think it'll be kind of like it was with Sara in the beginning where several of the males at the workplace will like Morgan. But, I think it'll end up that she's either interested in none of them romantically or only interested in one of them romantically. My guess is Hodges and/or Henry will also like Morgan, as well as Greg. I think though that Greg won't act upon it because he liked Sara and we all know what happened there. But Hodges and I believe at one time, Super Dave also kind of liked Sara.
 
12.02 press release:

THE CSI TEAM MUST FIGURE OUT A FAMILY MURDER MYSTERY WITH A TWIST WHEN THREE DIFFERENT SUSPECTS EACH SAY THEY DID IT, ON "CSI," WEDNESDAY, SEPT. 28

CHEAT TWEET: Three suspects confess to killing an entire family but which one is telling the truth? #CSI 09/28 http://bit.ly/r0RiUo

"Tell Tale Hearts" - Three suspects come forward with three different reasons why they killed an entire family and the CSI team has to determine who is telling the truth, on CSI, Wednesday, Sept. 28 (10:00-11:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

SERIES REGULARS:
D.B. Russell.................................. Ted Danson
Catherine Willows.............. Marg Helgenberger
Nick Stokes................................ George Eads
Captain Jim Brass........................ Paul Guifoyle
Sara Sidle......................................... Jorja Fox
Greg Sanders.............................. Eric Szmanda
Dr. Robbins......................... Robert David Hall
David Phillips............................. David Berman
David Hodges...................... Wallace Langham
Morgan Brody...................... Elisabeth Harnois

GUEST CAST:
Conrad Ecklie................................ Marc Vann
Xiomara Garcia........ Monique Gabriela Curnen
Officer Mitchell.......................... Larry Mitchell
Officer Metcalf................. Joseph Patrick Kelly
Officer Andy Cantelvo................. Jaime Gomez
John Lee.......................... James Harvey Ward
Leslie Gitig................................ Amy Davidson
Alison........................................ Brooke Butler
Matt.......................................... David Petruzzi
Fiona Chambliss................ Kyla Kenedy White
Reporter 1.............................. Roy Abramsohn
Reporter 2........................... Michele Lainevool
Maurice Gallows......................... Chris Mulkey

STORY BY: Larry Mitchell
TELEPLAY BY: Joe Polaski
DIRECTED BY: Brad Tanenbaum
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Perfect Anomaly said:
hiphugger17 said:
EmmaMay said:
The sound of a love triangle unnerves me a little.
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Yeah I really wonder what that's about. Triangles are always bad news, especially in this franchise!
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It definitely depends on what she means by "Triangle." I could see some humorous scenes with the guys trying to outdo each other flirting/trying to impress her. :lol: :shifty:
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That I'd be more ok with. It definitely follows a CSI trend having Hodges and Henry interested in Wendy and in some degree Greg and Grissom with Sara. So Greg and Nick? Greg and Henry? Greg and Hodges? I don't know why but I keep seeing Greg in the mix somehow :lol:.

Have we heard anything on Lou? When is he back?? :shifty:
 
Dizzney said:
Posted in the news area is a great new interview by our vegaslights with Elizabeth Harnois. Interview

She gives some nice spoilers.
ut there’s definitely a really fun banter between me and Eric Szmanda that they’re writing. It’s really fun to play and we definitely have a good chemistry in terms of that. They’ve been writing some fun stuff for us. I’d say she’s probably closest with him right now.
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I had a feeling the writers would have Greg be open to her since he was with Riley. Greg seems to be the most accepting of newer people and I think that is because he was accepted from being a Lab Rat to CSI.

She sounds really cool. I look forward to her scenes.
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Everyone has always been accepting to newer people. :shifty:

Obviously, by what Harnois said, Nick is accepting of her, too. The team has always embraced a newbie.

Well, there might be tension between Russell and Nick and Catherine, but that's expected since they'll both be demoted (still assuming Nick will be demoted, too).
 
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I'm with Lis and hope her and Grissom get some scenes later on, I wonder if they'll not get along like Grissom and her father? Or they'll be totally different and get along

Perfect Anomaly said:
It definitely depends on what she means by "Triangle." I could see some humorous scenes with the guys trying to outdo each other flirting/trying to impress her. :lol: :shifty:
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That's how I think it will be too :)

Have we heard anything on Lou? When is he back?? :shifty:
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Probably in the 3rd ep Bittersweet is when we'll see Lou again

Everyone has always been accepting to newer people. :shifty:
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Hodges wasn't that excepting of Ray at first, wish they had continued that
 
I agree with Speedy. I think they are all generally accepting and welcoming of newbies. I think the likely reason Greg will seem to connect more with Morgan than others is probably because he's closer in age to her than the other CSIs.
 
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