Season 11 "Spoiler Lab" Discussion Part 4

[waiting4summer]

At least the ones I served on....if the death was not natural, it went to a corner's inquest. I sat in on ones that were related to traffic accidents, suicides, etc. After watching the epi a couple of weeks ago about the 'cycle'. I'm thinking that accidental deaths, possible homicides and suicide would all be considered fair game. I can't remember all the possible rulings we had the option of giving, but one of them was accidental homicide. It would be up to the jury to decide whether to go ahead with further trial.

In my rural county, there were six of us on the jury and there was no selection process whatsoever. I was told I would be on the jury call list for 3 (or maybe 4) months. Whenever they had a few inquests needed done, they would call me and give me a list of the deceased names. If I knew anyone on the list I had to let them know.

Unless the officers giving their reports could lean the jury to thinking it was justifiable, then I think they would rule to go ahead with a trial. Just my opinion, I don't claim to be an expert by any means.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

What is Ray kills Haskell in self defense? for instance Haskell comes after him and he protects himself by taking him down? With wittnesses like Cath, Nick, etc. would he still have to face an inquest?

Here's a definition that backs up what waiting4summer said:

"A coroner's inquest is neither a civil nor a criminal trial proceeding. It is simply an inquiry into the manner and cause of an individual's death. An inquest is conducted by the coroner or deputy coroner with a court reporter or tape recorder and six jurors present.

The coroner will summon to the inquest the individuals who have pertinent information concerning the incident. This often includes, but is not limited to, the person who found the deceased, witnesses to the incident, those involved, police officers and investigators, and in some instances, a direct relative. All individuals summoned will present testimony (answer questions) to the jury. Any professional reports (autopsy, toxicology, x-ray and laboratory reports) will be presented at that time. These reports are not released to the public until the inquest procedures are concluded.

Upon completion of the testimony, the coroner's jury will deliberate in private. They may request additional testimony, evidence, or conference, as they deem necessary. When the jury has concluded their deliberations, they will issue a verdict through the foreman as to the cause and manner of death (accident, homicide, natural, suicide or undetermined).

The coroner's verdict has no civil or criminal trial significance. The verdict and inquest proceedings are merely fact finding in nature and statistical in purpose. However, if a person is implicated as the unlawful slayer of the deceased or accessory thereto, an arrest may be affected. This is extremely rare, as this function is now performed by the state's attorney's grand jury proceedings."

 

[waiting4summer]

Yep, that's it, PC. And lucky me, I was foreman every time.....

 

[Desertwind]

That's interesting, and I DID READ IT but it still doesn't answer my question? or lets say I had a break-in and I shot and killed the intruder, would I have to go up for trial, or would they dismiss it as self defense. If Ray defends himself or Haskell is going to harm someone else, his ex. perhaps, and he shoots him, to keep her from harms way, would that not be self defense?

 

[kaylyne]

And Liev Schrieber as Keppler ..yawn-yawn-snooze-snooze, no comparsion ever with these two, one was a complete bore, and one is so exciting, my opinion:bolian:

I’m quite surprised that you classify Ray as “exciting” and Keppler as a “complete bore”, when they’re actually the same character – only simplified (or expanded, as the situation would be, since Keppler came first).

Look at the comparisons:
- They both filled in an empty CSI spot
- both are quiet thinkers
- both have dark pasts
- both went rogue during a case that was personal to them
- both have hovered on that line of right & wrong. We know what choice Keppler made. Now, we'll see Ray copying that as well.

The only difference is that we got all of that from Keppler squished into four exciting episodes, where it’s taken 2+ (boring) seasons for Ray to get to the point where Keppler was when he needed to make his final decision.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

That's interesting, and I DID READ IT but it still doesn't answer my question? or lets say I had a break-in and I shot and killed the intruder, would I have to go up for trial, or would they dismiss it as self defense. If Ray defends himself or Haskell is going to harm someone else, his ex. perhaps, and he shoots him, to keep her from harms way, would that not be self defense?

Self-defense is to protect yourself, NOT someone else. Even if he killed Haskell in self-defense there would still be an investigation. The D.A. determines if it was self-defense or not.

Now being that Haskell attacked Ray there would be suspicion if it really was self-defense.

In any case, self-defense or not an investigation will take place, PERIOD!

 

[waiting4summer]

I'm not an expert, but I think that there would be an inquest to see if the shooting could have been avoided or not. From what I remember it might just be a formality, but still necessary under the law. An inquest is NOT a trial; an inquest is to determine if a trial is necessary.

IF Ray does end Haskell's life there SHOULD be an inquest, but it will depend upon what ruling occurs during the inquest if further steps are taken and if he would be held over for trial. He would not be arrested until that point, unless of course he confesses to premeditation.

We may never see all these steps on CSI, because as someone said earlier, this is not Law and Order. TPTB will show us what they want. However, and this is just my opinion, if this storyline goes through and he is held over for a true trial, will the fact that he admitted having the 'warrior gene' be used against him? Discuss......:rommie:

Additional info: DesertWind, even if you shot an intruder, you may not have to even attend the inquest. I was at one where it was a multi-car accident and the other drivers were not there to give their information or viewpoint; it was strictly police officers, etc.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

I think someone else mentioned it, but Greg's hearing is a nice example for this sort of thing (although I'm not sure if it was completely the same). Greg's actions, though self-defense, still had to be examined because he's law enforcement. Even if there had been a camera on that street or witnesses to verify Greg's account, he still would have had to go through with that inquiry. Because he was excused for what happened, he didn't have to face a criminal trial. (He did have a civil suit, but that's different.)

So yes, Ray would still have to go through with an inquiry. Maybe as just a formality, but an inquiry all the same. It's the law.

 

[Robinjn]

Ray will be cleared and the reason will be "justifiable homicide". Based on the following definition I found, it's pretty cut and dried:

"Justifiable homicide is defined as the killing of one person by another that is committed without malice or criminal intent. When a person commits a justifiable homicide they are not guilty of a criminal offense. Homicide can be considered justifiable homicide if it is committed in self defense, the defense of others, while trying to prevent of serious crime, and in the line of duty. Capital punishment is also considered justifiable homicide. Preventing a prisoner from fleeing by means of deadly force may also be considered justifiable homicide."

Also, and this may depend on the specific jurisdiction, but I think that most deaths at the hand of law enforcement require an investigation by Internal Affairs.

 

[Kasey47]

If I am not mistaken, any time a person in law enforcement fires his/her weapon, there is some sort of inquiry. There are also put on some sort of administrative leave pending the findings if such an inquiry. Why the CSIs in Vegas are not police officers, they are members of law enforcement and are able to carry a gun so I would think all this would apply to them also...

 

[Ceindreadh]

Also, and this may depend on the specific jurisdiction, but I think that most deaths at the hand of law enforcement require an investigation by Internal Affairs.

(snicker) just as well not all procedurals show us these steps, other the likes of NCIS LA would do nothing *but* be investigated by I.A.!

 

[DJRideout]

If I am not mistaken, any time a person in law enforcement fires his/her weapon, there is some sort of inquiry. There are also put on some sort of administrative leave pending the findings if such an inquiry.

I know with Law Enforcement up this way, that is usually what happens as well..and not just with firing their weapon. Usually it is done by an outside party....such as the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) in our case.

If Ray ends up killing Haskell, protocol should dictate, whether it is in self defense or not. If tptb want to keep some reality to the show, at the very least, an inquiry should take place. And it be done by an outside party....or in this case, Internal Affairs. And to my understanding, this usually includes a suspension or administrative leave while the inquiry is going on.

If this should happen, it would easily explain why Ray isn't around....which in turn, would give LF the freedom needed to work on another project or two.

 

[blackflag]

Press release for Cello and Goodbye

04.18.2011 THE SEARCH FOR THE NOTORIOUS NATE HASKELL CONTINUES AFTER HE KIDNAPS LANGSTON'S EX-WIFE AND LEAVES A MESSAGE WRITTEN IN BLOOD, ON THE 250TH EPISODE OF "CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION," THURSDAY, MAY 5

Bill Irwin ("Rachel Getting Married") Returns as Serial Killer Nate Haskell;

Tracee Ellen Ross ("Girlfriends") Returns as Langston's Ex-Wife, Gloria

"Cello and Goodbye" - Langston becomes more determined than ever to track down Nake Haskell, the notorious "Dick & Jane" killer, after discovering that he's kidnapped his ex-wife, Gloria, on the 250th episode of CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION, Thursday, May 5 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. Bill Irwin ("Rachel Getting Married") returns as serial killer Nate Haskell, and Tracee Ellen Ross ("Girlfriends") returns as Langston's ex-wife, Gloria.


SERIES REGULARS:

Dr. Raymond Langston...... Laurence Fishburne
Catherine Willows.............. Marg Helgenberger
Nick Stokes................................ George Eads
Captain Jim Brass....................... Paul Guilfoyle
Sara Sidle......................................... Jorja Fox
Greg Sanders.............................. Eric Szmanda
Dr. Robbins......................... Robert David Hall
David Phillips............................. David Berman
Hodges................................ Wallace Langham

GUEST CAST:

Nate Haskell........................Bill Irwin
Morgan Brody.....................Elisabeth Harnois
Tina Vincent.......................Amanda Wyss
Det. Daniel Sosa..................Danny Nucci
Arvin Thorpe......................Raymond J. Barry
Gloria Parkes......................Tracee Ellis Ross
Phil Baker..........................Dean Norris
LAPD Officer Blake..............Michael King
Pawnbroker.........................Max Grodenchik
LAPD Officer #2..................Terrence Edwards

WRITTEN BY: Christopher Barbour & Don McGill
DIRECTED BY: Alec Smight

And In A Dark, Dark House

04.18.2011 LURED TO THE HOUSE WHERE A SERIAL KILLER WAS BORN, LANGSTON SQUARES OFF WITH THE NOTORIOUS "DICK & JANE" KILLER, NATE HASKELL, ON THE 11th SEASON FINALE OF "CSI: CRIME SCENE
INVESTIGATION," THURSDAY, MAY 12

Bill Irwin ("Rachel Getting Married") Returns as Serial Killer Nate Haskell;

Tracee Ellen Ross ("Girlfriends") Returns as Langston's Ex-Wife, Gloria


"In a Dark, Dark House" - After years of pursuit and a countless number of murders, Langston comes face-to-face with serial killer Nate Haskell inside the house where his killing spree began, on the 11th season finale of CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION, Thursday, May 12 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. Bill Irwin ("Rachel Getting Married") returns as serial killer Nate Haskell, and Tracee Ellen Ross ("Girlfriends") returns as Langston's ex-wife, Gloria.


SERIES REGULARS:

Dr. Raymond Langston...... Laurence Fishburne
Catherine Willows.............. Marg Helgenberger
Nick Stokes................................ George Eads
Captain Jim Brass....................... Paul Guilfoyle
Sara Sidle......................................... Jorja Fox
Greg Sanders.............................. Eric Szmanda
Dr. Robbins......................... Robert David Hall
David Phillips............................. David Berman
Hodges................................ Wallace Langham

RECURRING CAST:
Conrad Ecklie.................Marc Vann
Henry Andrews...............Jon Wellner

GUEST CAST:

Nate Haskell..........................Bill Irwin
Gloria Parkes.........................Tracee Ellis Ross
Officer Mitchell......................Larry Mitchell
I.A. Detective Schultz..............Jay Karnes
Nora Parkes..........................L. Scott Caldwell
Officer Metcalf.......................Joseph Patrick Kelly
Officer Akers.........................Larry Sullivan
Doctor Tanaka........................Paris Tanaka
Warner Thorpe (8 yrs. old)..........Niko Baur
Warner Thorpe (16 yrs. old).......Mason Davis
Arvin Thorpe.........................Raymond J. Barry

WRITTEN BY: Tom Mularz
DIRECTED BY: Jeff Hunt

Susan

 

[Geeno]

Langston becomes more determined than ever to track down Nake Haskell... blah blah blah... while Carherine and Nick watch a block of ice melt, on the 250th episode of CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION, Thursday, May 5 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

After years of pursuit and a countless number of murders, Langston comes face-to-face... blah blah blah. Meanwhile, Sara and Greg play rock-paper-scissors, on the 11th season finale of CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION, Thursday, May 12 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Yay more Ray. Sarcasm.

What. The. F*ck.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Langston becomes more determined than ever to track down Nake Haskell... blah blah blah... while Carherine and Nick watch a block of ice melt, on the 250th episode of CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION, Thursday, May 5 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

After years of pursuit and a countless number of murders, Langston comes face-to-face... blah blah blah. Meanwhile, Sara and Greg play rock-paper-scissors, on the 11th season finale of CSI: CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION, Thursday, May 12 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Yay more Ray. Sarcasm.

What. The. F*ck.

For the record, I'd enjoy watching that game of rock-paper-scissors. :lol: