Season 11 "Spoiler Lab" Discussion Part 2

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Because Kacey is described as sexy and sassy doesn’t make her a Mary-Sue. Her background from the descriptions of the character are believable:

  • Father is big in the pyrotechnics business, she learned about explosives from her father.
  • When she was young she experimented with explosives.
  • She joined the military and served her country in a time of war.
  • Served at least one tour of duty in Iraq, and that had something to do with ordinance.
  • It’s a given that she received formal training in explosives, and combat training with the military.
  • She was tagged with some nicknames.
  • Most likely has experience in hostile environments, IEDs and direct enemy fire.
  • After leaving the service, she got involved in law enforcement which led her to the Forensic lab.

She is also attractive, intelligent, outgoing, and brave. Attractive people do exist. CSI members are intelligent. Outgoing is a character trait. It’s a brave thing to volunteer for the military in time of war, and serve a tour in a war zone.

What makes her a Mary Sue? If the character was male, none of this would be an issue.

An interview of a woman who's job involves explosives in the military (Mary-Sue?). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaHfAyPZVDs
 
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There are three defining characteristics of a Mary Sue:

1. A strange or exciting background.

She's been making explosives ever since she was a little kid. Not only is that bordering on this first trait, but its a recycled fact. It's been used with Greg before. Then she went to Iraq and so has military experience with explosives and apparently hostile situations.

2. Too much positive factors and hardly any negative factors.

What has been said about her is that she's sexy, sassy, smart, outgoing. It might be too early to point out her flaws, but it still seems a bit too perfect.

3. Strange or unusual physical traits.

Too early to comment on that.

If it were male, it would be a Gary Stu, so yes, it would still be a problem.
 
DragonFriend95 said:
There are three defining characteristics of a Mary Sue:
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One out of three because it is too early to tell, but qualifies in Kacey’s case? Let’s ignore some the more interesting (exciting) background parts of the lead characters too. It’s television, they are not in the business in telling the stories of uninteresting characters, those usually fade into the background or written out.
 
Wow, that's a great background for Kacey! Sounds like she's tough and smart. Sqweegel and Haskell for next season?! Wow! Never heard of Sqweegel but he sounds interesting... and very evil. :evil:
 
DragonFriend95 said:
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2. Too much positive factors and hardly any negative factors.

What has been said about her is that she's sexy, sassy, smart, outgoing. It might be too early to point out her flaws, but it still seems a bit too perfect.


If it were male, it would be a Gary Stu, so yes, it would still be a problem.
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That's what i thought. She seems too perfect. I can't help but dislike her character because she replaced Liz, who was also sexy and sassy and smart and her character was definitely not explored enough. I just don't get that decision...seems to me like they are trying too hard for the audience to like Kacey(hopefully they will not try to force her so much into us like Jesse in CSIM last season...)
 
These comments sound like when Lauren Lee Smith [Riley] was about to embark on the show, will they like her, won't they, what's she like, who is she, etc. [what happened to her?] I'm just happy and excited about seeing are regular team back on the job. And the "new direction" they've been talking about. I'll reserve judgement after I've watched her, like little Bieber boy~
 
@Kala79 I appreciate the honesty about your feelings toward Kacey because of Liz leaving the show. It’s always difficult to be the new character in an established show, and when others perceive you as a replacement. A character description that is meant to attract new viewers and add some excitement, isn’t really going to deal with imperfections. It’s going to take several episodes to flesh out and develop a character. In order to be a little fair we have to a least wait until the first episode airs for criticism, because that is when the first impressions are made.

I agree "Sexy" is overdone, but I do like smart characters.
 
Desertwind said:
These comments sound like when Lauren Lee Smith [Riley] was about to embark on the show, will they like her, won't they, what's she like, who is she, etc. [what happened to her?] I'm just happy and excited about seeing are regular team back on the job. And the "new direction" they've been talking about. I'll reserve judgement after I've watched her, like little Bieber boy~
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I agree with you desertwind..those descriptions were used for Riley. Why didn't they just bring her back. I liked Riley and this character sounds useless to me.
 
Smokey said:
I hope he's not pranking us, because this would be insanely cool! Anthony Zuiker posted on his Facebook:

Anthony Zuiker is happy to announce that black Sqweegel from Level 26: Dark Origins is going to appear on CSI on October 14, 2010. The episode is entitled "Sqweegel". Stay tuned to be scared to death.
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*pops in* This should be interesting - I can't help but wonder if this CSI/Level 26 crossover of sorts was Zuiker's reason for returning to CSI at the beginning of season 11...either way, I'm looking forward to it. Dark Origins was good and very, very twisted. I'm not entirely sure how this is going to work out, though, but I guess we'll see.

CSI Files previously reported on the Level 26 project several times, including this post which describes Sqweegel as follows:
There are 25 levels used to categorize serial killers, but Special Circs is working to find the only man ever placed in a category of his own: Level 26. The man is called Sqweegel, and he is known to have killed more than 50 people over the span of 20 years. He rapes, tortures, mutilates, shoots, burns and poisons his victims. He is literally able to get away with murder because there is no forensic evidence to tie him to his crimes. He wears a full body suit so that he doesn't leave so much as a skin cell behind at a crime scene.
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Now THAT'S something to talk about!! :)
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To clarify a bit for people who haven't read Dark Origins, the Sqweegel described here (which is the villain from the book) wore a white full body suit. The Sqweegel that will appear on CSI wore the same type of body suit, but his was black - so technically, this is a different character, although he's obviously connected to (white) Sqweegel somehow, and I'm sure he's just as evil and twisted. (BTW, I say 'he', but there's nothing to indicate black!Sqweegel's gender.)

(This might sound confusing, but I don't want to be too specific about things from Dark Origins in case anybody wants to read it at some point but hasn't yet - don't want to spoil anyone. :))

The second Level 26 book, Dark Prophecy, comes out on the same day as the CSI episode, October 14 - but Zuiker previously said that it's about a tarot card killer and won't deal with black Sqweegel. That makes me wonder if the character will only appear on CSI, or if he'll be part of another Level 26 book down the line or something...I have no clue.

I do wonder if any of the actors from the Level 26 cyber bridges will appear in the CSI episode, though...

(BTW, yeah, 'Sqweegel' is kind of a silly sounding name for an evil serial killer, no denying that. :lol:)
 
I'm liking this storyline too. I think this serial killer arc is one of the better ones, if they do make it an arc. Or it could be a continuing storyline that gets brought up throughout the season, possibly into next like The Blue Paint Killer or even Paul Milander.
 
Yeah now this serial killer sounds more interesting. I can maybe get into this storyline. The killer sounds like a combination of killers I have read in various books.
 
Totally am loving the idea of Sqweegel being part of the CSI 'verse. I'm just hoping they don't end up being a man who was refused the chance to be in medicine. Though I'm betting Zuiker will never let a lackluster plot 20 feet near this character.

Oh, and I'm also a tiny bit worried that Sqweegel may turn out to be just ONE character's obsession (like how it was Langston and Dr. Jekyll) while everyone else seemed much less worried. Please let it be a team... who knows, possibly Sqweegel terrorising/haunting the Graveyard shift CSIs?
 
And just when I thought this show couldn't get any more gruesome and gory:klingon: A torture freak.. so much for a "new direction" and the "personal lives " of the team:confused:But what's great about CSI, is it's always a team effort, how they all are so bonded when working on any case, that's the beauty of the show~
 
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