"Redrum" Discussion **Spoilers**

RE: Jon Wellner, I have decided to list him as Henry Andrews, Until we know for sure if he is going to be under a new name (as I posted several posts above with a link). For sure means when the ep airs. Its just to confusing.

As an added info anyone interested in Jon Wellner or David Berman here is a link to a site Wolfman Productions.
 
Waiting said:
***Not shipping here really***

But this goes with a point I'm about to make. But why is it that Nick is the one who gets the most bent?
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That's a really interesting point. Sure, the guy's a sensitive sort, but if the rumours are true about festering resentment stemming from this episode that means even a full explanation of what's going on isn't enough to heal the wounds this will cause.

Which still seems like one hella big overreaction to me. I admit, I haven't been keeping as close a tabs on recent episodes of CSI as I probably should have: has Nick been showing signs of emotional, err, instability's probably not the right word...
 
See, I want to throttle Keppler, right now. I mean, his actions may lead to the capture of the badguy, and that's all great, and everything; but there are a lot of other factors here. The undersherrif, Brass, Cath and Keppler all know. I don't think it'd hurt to tell the rest of the team.

Nick learned his lesson about talking about crime scenes a few years back when he got heavily reprimanded for allowing information to leak to the press by chatting it up with a pal. Greg's in no mood to be in the headlines, again. And Warrick and Sara are probably in no mood to spill their hearts out to strangers or anyone else about this. They're trying to capture a killer. I mean, the Mini Crime Scenes were kept "in house" and not released to the press, and the WHOLE LAB knew about them.

Anyway, I don't like that Catherine goes along with it. I see the higher ups making her, but I still hate it. I guess I'm one of those who worries about Catherine in a leadership role, at times. I mean, Season 1 she was my fav female. Not kidding. I ADORED Catherine. Season 2, I leveled out on Sara and Cath, and then Seasons 3-5, I wasn't a Cath fan... LOVED her Season 6, though. It's just, I have all these memories from Season 5 when she was a supervisor, and it was just rough for everyone because she got incredibly territorial, and a bit snippy, at times. Yes, I know no one's perfect and I know one could easily say she was PMSing, or something, but those are the memories I have. So, I was really hoping for her to prove herself in a leadership position, this time.

I mean, first time I heard she was taking over, I said I hoped she did a better job this time, that I really wanted her to since I've been enjoying her character again starting since Season 6. I guess it's just a sucker punch to see that she's lying to everyone. I mean, it wasn't much of a fight, and I guess I wish she had fought harder.

As for the mutiny, I see it as a response to what has gone down, and to the secrecy about this case. It gets to the foursome, especially Nick. I think it's going to be interesting, and I can't wait to see how all this affects the dynamic of the group in the long-term.

Also: I REALLY want to know what that key from the CTV promo goes to!! It's driving me mad!
 
Alyssa said:
See, I want to throttle Keppler, right now. I mean, his actions may lead to the capture of the badguy, and that's all great, and everything; but there are a lot of other factors here. The undersherrif, Brass, Cath and Keppler all know. I don't think it'd hurt to tell the rest of the team.
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I'm interested that you're willing to throttle Keppler for something that everyone's mostly agreed is the fault of the "higher ups". Sure, it was his (admittedly unorthodox) idea, but there's no evidence to suggest that he's twisting Catherine's arm that I've observed.

All four people at that table agreed to it. Would you pin this all on Brass, too?
 
I don't get why Catherine should fight harder. Hmmm to prove her loyalty to the viewers maybe? She does indicate that she doesn't want to deceive her team and the viewers see that. Let's not forget that Catherine is the politic one here and I really don't see her put up a fight with the superiors at work when she knows she has to go along with their plan eventually. I'm not trying to say whether her action is right or not. I just think this is what Catherine does. It's her character. If she fights really hard like Grissom probably would, it's OOC.
 
Alyssa said:
.....SNIP...

Also: I REALLY want to know what that key from the CTV promo goes to!! It's driving me mad!
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If you combine that promo with the one on Innertunbe.... I'm thinking the key unlocks the filing cabinet. There's a clip of Keppler looking at a file [of the fake crime scene?] and then the snippet between Nick and Catherine where she's all "back away from the file", so I can totally see the young turks banding together to find out what Cath and Keppy are hiding.

As for the ramifications of the whole mutiny thingie, I can see Greg and Sara letting it go. Warrick might take a moment, but yeah, he'll move on and not hold the grudge. Nick? Well, if you had asked last season, I would have been all "What are you kidding?! Of course Nick will forgive her." After Fannysmacking, nah. We've moved on to
Angry!Nicky. I can see him still upset that Cath didn't have the team's back, that in his mindset, she broke the trust he thought they had.

Then again, I guess we'll have to wait and see on Thursday :)
 
I see Greg as still being too green to want to rock the boat, especially with Catherine. I see Sara maybe getting the "wait til Dad (Grissom) comes home...I'm gonna tell" look on her face and stewing. Warrick...he seems to let everything slide, and seeing as how he's not been around much lately (where the heck HAS he been??), and his feelings for Cath, well...I don't see him holding a grudge.

Nick is the one who thinks of his co-workers as more like family than anything else, so I can see why he'd be hurt. Also, he had such guilt over Ecklie splitting the team, then look what happened immediately afterward (Grave Danger), he finally gets "back to normal" so to speak with the team, and now this...

He's probably feeling like "ok...things are settling back into a routine, and now they go and pull the rug out from under me again!"
 
EricaSJ said:
I don't think the younger CSIs would turn their backs on Catherine just because she doesn't tell them the truth.

As for Chatherine going along with the plan, I agree with those who say she has no choice.
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I agree with both points. The main thing I'm curious about right now is why they are forming their own team. Like AureliaPriscus, said:

I can buy that they wouldn't trust Keppler because he's new and is, frankly, a little weird, but Catherine?

This is Nick we're talking about, here. Of all the people to overreact...
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It seems as though there must be more to it than just being kept in the dark. Else, Nick is being portrayed completely out of character. I'd think the team would be willing to give Cath the benefit of the doubt, even with the new guy added to the mix. Nick would be the first person to do so in normal circumstances.

If nothing else, TPTB have certainly gotten us stirred up about this episode. I hope it's not just a wild stunt to keep us watching until Grissom gets back. I hope TPTB keep the characters in character and don't start an ugly story arc that will give us all ulcers.
 
Ya know, I was one of those people who saw the preview for LLV and thought the hug between Nick and Gris was much more heartfelt and emotional than it ended up being...so...maybe they are messing with us again in that preview!
 
To be honest, I think this entire arc is meant to seriously mess with our heads -- particularly when it comes to Keppler's characterization.

But what I've got to say about that covers more than just "Redrum", so I'll take it to the other board.
 
I think whoever said that that key may be to the filing cabinet I think you may be right. Because in one of the promos, Catherine was threatening Nick over a "cabinet" (I'm pretty sureit was Nick)

So, do you think that if that is what the key is to, and Sara and whoever else sees what they're up to, that will change things? I mean, I could see Sara finding it at the very end of the episode, and then maybe letting the others know.

And that could possibly be when Sara, Greg, and Warrick might see that Cath kind of had to do it, but maybe Nick will still not let it go.

I don't know, but I haven't really thought about if the team found out about it themselves.

Oh! And then what if Cath finds out they looked, and gets mad at them!!

I hope that doesn't happen, because they would be confusing and soapy.

Grr. But it would be an unforseen twist...
 
If Grissom had been the one involved in Keppler's "reverse forensics" scheme, would the others have behaved the way they did?
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I don't think there would be "reverse forensics" with Grissom . It's just not his style .
I have a problem with Catherines behaviour because she doesn't tell them about the plan . These are the people she has worked with for years . And as far as we know , neither of them has a second job as a paparazzi or journalist . They can be trusted with serious information (I think even Nick learnt a lot since the beginning of season 4)
 
It's true that the team could be reasonably trusted with this information but, in my opinion, it only takes one person to screw up and blow the whole operation. They're human beings; they make mistakes (as pretty much every character can at some point in their career attest -- including Catherine). Information control is hard enough at the best of times -- the fewer people involved, the better.

Besides, in the end who gets told what isn't her call -- it's the Undersheriff calling the shots, isn't it?

Of course, if the rest of the team's insistent meddling blows the whole investigation, it won't much matter. I still do wish they'd just take it on faith that Catherine and Keppler aren't smuggling cocaine or butchering small children and leave it at that.
 
I certainly think they are messing with us again wit Previews look at the big hoopla they made about Daddy's Little Girl and it turned out to be a joke. Same with the hug between Grissom and Nick. Are they even aware that we hate to be teased.

And I'm interested in wondering why Catherine and the higher ups are all so eager to follow this Keppler dude whom they hardly know?
 
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