"Redrum" Discussion **Spoilers**

gregslabmouse said:
Head of days..... what about Ecklie? Or... I thought Cath got promoted to that...
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Ahh, yes, well... you hit some of the convoluted crap that rarely gets properly explained.

Remember, episode, what, 2 or 3 when Grissom gets promoted to "run the lab", only to really be just the nightime supervisor by the time we get a few more episodes in?

People like Eckley, the under sherrif, and even Keppler really are just the star trek ensigns in the wrong colored uniforms...

I re-watched the episode on the second go around (time shift) and I find it played even worse on the second go around. I could determine no benefit to not telling the main CSIs (Nick, Warrick, Sara, and Greg) about the plan. It created unneeded stress between the team members. Also, plasticiing up a work area and making it look like something was going on was just dumb, another step to make people THINK something is going on.

Capturing the criminal was almost an afterthought for this show, and that is when CSI is at it's worst. The crime, the criminals, and that tracking of the criminals is prime in the best episodes. This one was afternoon soap opera material. Very sad indeed.
 
I thought it was pretty interesting episode.
Greggo was on for more than 30 thiry seconds!! :)
He's acting more like himself as well.

Catherine knew the rest of the team would figure it out and even warned the under sheriff and Keppler. She didn't want to lie to the team, either.

Loved Hodges in episode. He was funny and it was great when Greg asked if Nick had been talking to him. Hitting reprnt was also Hodges-like and funny.

I agree that Sara has learned from Nesting Dolls that blowing up at Catherine in front of the whole lab i not a good idea.

I'm starting to like Keppler as we learn more about him, even though he should have told the team what was going on.
Thought he was funny in the diner when he thought it was his fault the eggs were too runny.

Nick does seem ready to explode as well, but at least Warrick knows and will most likely help him. :lol:
 
Man! What an episode! I have to admit the "reverse forensics" was a rather clever way to draw the suspect out--unfortunate that the Undersheriff didn't let the DA know what was up though. Still, the REAL evidence will enable a conviction on both counts, in my opinion.

I can understand why Nick was mad at Catherine for not trusting the rest of the team, but at the same time though, Warrick seems to be maintaining more clarity on the big picture than Nick. If it'd been 4 years ago, I think they'd each be doing the opposite--it shows how some events have gotten to Nick, while it also shows how Warrick has matured.

Doc Robbins' bipolarity is continuing on--he's back to being the Mad Doctor again. I hope this gets addressed. I think he's got some kind of problem--psychological or medical--that's causing these mood swings from one episode to another and it's getting me concerned.

Keppler's tactics and technique, right down to his method of inserting himself into the killer's role is very much like Special Agent Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks--it's creepy, yet very fascinating and it seems to be peaking Catherine's interest. While I don't like the deception and I can see why a lot of folks think Keppler's IA, I have to admit it's creative--thinking outside of the box.

Overall, another great episode.
 
i had some more thoughts this morning:

if catherine was really worried about her teams feelings she could have gone behind kepplers back and told them. they are proffesional and they all trust(ed) each other so they could have gone along with it. but, like i said before the episode wouldnt have been as interesting.

i also had some ideas as to why nick is taking it so personally. i think him and catherine are really good friends, that was evident last week (or was it a few weeks ago? i forget). theyve been out together and she was the one who held his hand in the ambulance after they found him. he probably thought catherine would always have his back. and, whether it was her choice or it was forced apon her, last night she didnt. being left out of the loop and treated so harshly by coworkers probably made him feel dispensible, at least thats the vibe i got.

if this is the writers way of showing us that nick is not ok, theyre about a year too late for me. he does seem overly broody, this should have happened last year. but better late than never i guess. i do hope they show him get over it, and i do hope warrick or catherine will talk to him. happy-go-lucky nicky needs to come back.
 
Wonder who Hodges was talking to? Isn't this the second time we've seen him trying to check Keppler's background?

Wonder if anything will come from his phone calls that will lead to insight into Kepp's character.

I really liked last night's epi. It had a nice balance of crime, forensics, characters and angst. Kinda reminded me of the old days, when it seemed they took greater care to develop a story.

And Nick...my poor Nicky. Wonder if he'll be bustin' out the 'there's 'bout to be an ass whoopin' right here' line on either Kepp or Catherine next!
 
My rant..oops, thoughts/comments on Redrum in no particular order:

Keppler is the new guy. How does he rate breakfast with Catherine, Brass and the Under-sheriff instead of Nick who originally worked the case with Catherine? He's just supposed to be the new guy borrowed from the Day Shift while Grissom is away and all of a sudden he's Catherine's right hand man? This episiode really showed the Young Turks where they rate in the department. Which is to say not at all.

Props to Nick for breaking the deception wide open. My love for Nicky, which is already ginormous, has swelled to infinity and beyond. *That* was true leadership. He put the pieces together, rallied the troops and got the bad guy. All without elaborate schemes or deceptions. Dude, you rock!!!

Best line of the episode:

Undersheriff: All right, which one of you three screwed this up?

Brass, glaring at Undersheriff: I'm looking at him.

This sort of dynamic between Nick and Catherine is new and I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. I mentioned somewhere a few days ago that this incident would probably hit Nick the hardest because Catherine has always had his back in the past. She pretty much saved his bacon in Boom. The conversation they had in Overload about people you're supposed to be able to trust comes to mind. Nick has been badly betrayed by people he trusted before so this must cut extra deep for him. It's weird, Catherine has ignored instructions from her superiors in the past. She could have ignored the Under-Sheriff this time and confided in her team - but she didn't. She picked a funny time to start toeing the line.

The cocoon was a very "Grissom" type of gift but the smile on Sara's face didn't seem to last. Once she realized that the only thing in the box was a twig with a chrysalis attached, I thought she looked somewhat annoyed. Kind of "WTF?!? This is it?!?!"

And props to Sara for telling Catherine that anything she had to say to her she'd say in private. BURN!!! Loved this!! Just a little bit of Nesting Dolls continuity. BTW, was it me or did JF's face look a little puffy in this eppy?

I actually really liked this episode. It was tense and full of emotionally charged situations. Plus, it gives us potential for some wonderful storylines down the road...if the Continuity Fairies don't drop the ball, that is.
 
Well said, wlk68!

If that twitch under Nick's left eye when Cath pulled rank on him was any indication of how pissed he was, we are in for a nice blow up! (maybe more Nick tears!) Then again, me thinks the next epi will mysteriously have Nick all happy again and the Continuity Fairy asleep at the wheel as usual!

Re: JF I agree...when she was in the hallway with Hodges, holding the package in front of her my immediate reaction was "hello? is she pregnant and they are trying to hide it??"
 
I liked the episode for the most part. I really didn't weigh in an opinion on whether I thought the reverse forensics things was a good or bad idea--I wanted to see where it went and how it affected the team. I was glad to see that it kinda worked, and kinda didn't, and that the undersheriff was the one who screwed it up by not clueing in the DA--that took some pressure off of Catherine and Keppler.
I knew it wasn't going to fly once Nick starting putting his case and Sara ahd Greg's case together, I don't blame Nick for being ticked when it was obvious to him the wrong guy was being arrested.
I liked how Catherine and Keppler sat down with the team, explained what they did, and apologized for keeping them out of the loop. Yeah it would have been smarter to keep them in the loop--but then that wouldn't be much of a story, would it?
Like Sara's moment with the twig--I was pretty sure it was a coccoon on a branch, (I saw it as a throwback to "Butterflied") and I thought she kinda smiled when she first saw it. She was annoyed that there was no note with it though--I felt for her then. Grissom tries, God bless him, but he falls just short of communicating what he really feels, and Sara's feeling that. It was appropriately Grissom--almost like their goodbye when he's standing there holding out his hands, waiting for words that won't come out.
Glad to see more than thirty seconds of Greg, and he was sooo cute :) .
I thought JF's face looked a little puffy too, wlk68, that or she looked really tired.

That's my two cents.
 
and upon thinking about this episode again and again

I kinda have lost all respect for the sheriff-ette as Miss Dee called him (since he knocked down my favorite Detective in A Bullet Runs Through It ) and he is just out to make himself look good IMO not the Sheriff

and I did love it when the undersheriff asked Brass
"Which one of you screwed this up?"
and Brass returned fire in TOTAL Brass fashion
"I'm looking at him."

and again kudos to Nicky for figuring it out and convincing the others that there indeed was a cover up
and him not totally blowing his top at either Catherine or Keppler
but I think you guys are right ... a Nicky meltdown is emminant :eek:

I liked it... lots of twists but you knew in the end Catherine would HAVE to tell everyone else what was going on
Grissom did put her in charge and I think she did owe them that
 
hhunter said:
and last but not least
Catherine and Keppler out on a date??? OMG!!!!
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In my eyes, it wasn't a date. They were just discussing the case. Just like they were doing at the beginning of the episode.
 
wlk68 said:
Props to Nick for breaking the deception wide open. My love for Nicky, which is already ginormous, has swelled to infinity and beyond. *That* was true leadership. He put the pieces together, rallied the troops and got the bad guy. All without elaborate schemes or deceptions. Dude, you rock!!!
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Actually, Nick did use the art of deception. He ran his own trace in Hodges lab, refusing to let Hodges see what he was working on. Both Warrick and Sara broke into the evidence locker and had a brief discussion on deception.

As I saw it, if Nick really wanted to do this without poking around behind Catherine's back, he would've called her on his suspicions without going over the evidence. They had enough reasonable doubt, without tampering with the evidence, to confront Catherine head on. Maybe if they did so in the presence of Ecklie or the Sheriff, Cath and Keppler would have had to come clean. Of course, that might have really screwed things up.

On the other hand, I do understand Nick's motives. Sorta like fighting fire with fire. You're going to go behind my back and make me look like a fool? Well, I'm going to do the same to you. Childish? Maybe. Justified? I think so.

So yeah, I would have to disagree that Nick went about his actions lawfully. He was being just as sneaky as Catherine and Keppler and while he first and foremost wanted to catch the real badguy, he was also driven by his anger at being lied to. Not entirely angelic of the emotional CSI, but justifiable.
 
First, I'd just like to say that if you want an interesting study, go back through the posts and take a look at the avatars of the people before you read their posts... I think you'll see some interesting patterns emerging! :lol: It doesn't work all the time, obviously, but my guesses as to which posters think what was becoming uncanny! :lol:

As for my review... Miss Dee pretty much summed it up as usual. I'll only add that, while I really can't see why the rest of the team couldn't be let in on the diversion, I also don't think they need to get that bent out of shape about it. I mean, I can see how they'd be a bit annoyed originally, but then they should be letting it go. And while I'm loving this ballsy aspect of Nick that seems to be emerging more and more, he really needs to just suck it up! OK, there was a small side-gig going on with Brass, Catherine and Keppler, but it's not like they were intentionally trying to screw over the rest of them. They were trying to catch a killer, and that was the route they took. The rest of them need to stop being so "What about me and my feelings?" and look at the bigger picture: the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and all that. ;)

Anyway, it's still fun to see an episode with so much strife, and I'm enjoying the weirdeness that is Keppler more and more. :)
 
edog said:
They had enough reasonable doubt, without tampering with the evidence, to confront Catherine head on.
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I agree with you that Nick's motives weren't completely pure, but the fact remains that the young turks should have had access to the evidence that Cath was keeping from them. They were working the case. He knew the two cases were linked, and he told her so in private. When she refused to give him access and refused to give him a reason why he couldn't have it, he felt he had no choice (just like she didn't in the first place) but to go behind her back to get it. They did try to go to Brass for help, but Warrick saw that he was in on it, so they did what they do best and processed the evidence. At least their evidence had already been processed, logged and stored for later use. The drugs Cath tampered with had not been.
 
Okay...guys...just talking about one of Keppler's comments...did anyone catch this.

Catherine: I don't like faking it.
Keppler: When was the last time you had to fake it?

I was like oh my where did this convo just go?
 
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