"Mascara" 200th Ep Discussion *SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Destiny
- Start date
Nightrider
Witness
Because fans hate change. And nowadays, if the plot and answers aren't screaming at people, and their forced to think or ponder for a little bit, they get upset. No, this wasn't the most exciting episode of CSI by a long shot, but I liked how we got to know Ray. I loved the Santeria drums and the Lucha Libre (add a little ethnicity to the freakin' show). BTW, none of the CSIs are known to keep continuity or logic, so relax.MY neighbor who was watering his lawn early this morning loved it, we talked about it for like 15 minutes, A friend called me from Nevada and was thrilled and said "it was so exciting, I sat on the edge of my chair", My family members, and two people at a Wal-Mart, who were raving about how great it wasI don't understand what fans didn't like about it?
Nicksfriend
Police Officer
Okay,if I don't write this it will drive me crazy but all I could think about since the show aired is The Rocky Horror Picture Show,worse movie ever made but people loved it, I could imagine eating popcorn and sitting around with a bunch of friends acting out the scenes of Mascara; the tanning guy,the drums,the voodoo dance and the screams, and bringing our own glass to smash at the end with Ray.
For those who have never viewed The Rocky Horror Picture show in the theater you have missed it,the people in the audience act out the movie as it plays onscreen,it is a riot,and it is fun.
Okay, I feel better now. Fun times people.... Fun times!!!
For those who have never viewed The Rocky Horror Picture show in the theater you have missed it,the people in the audience act out the movie as it plays onscreen,it is a riot,and it is fun.
Okay, I feel better now. Fun times people.... Fun times!!!
happyharper13
Pathologist
MY neighbor who was watering his lawn early this morning loved it, we talked about it for like 15 minutes, A friend called me from Nevada and was thrilled and said "it was so exciting, I sat on the edge of my chair", My family members, and two people at a Wal-Mart, who were raving about how great it was
Because fans hate change. And nowadays, if the plot and answers aren't screaming at people, and their forced to think or ponder for a little bit, they get upset. No, this wasn't the most exciting episode of CSI by a long shot, but I liked how we got to know Ray. I loved the Santeria drums and the Lucha Libre (add a little ethnicity to the freakin' show). BTW, none of the CSIs are known to keep continuity or logic, so relax.
Honestly, people are used to spending their lives thinking. I go to college. It requires quite a bit of thinking. Personally, I look to television for an escape from having to think too much. I think many (if not most) do.
That said, I have absolutely no idea how having to think related to this episode. The answers were all painfully obvious. The CSIs barely solved anything. Fantasma was the one who actually ended up solving the case. There was only one real piece of evidence -- the piece of the mask found in Sylvia's hand. The CSIs told that to Fantasma and he confronted Esteban.
And as to "adding ethnicity," I don't think adding stereotypes of a culture serves to add ethnicity. If they want to make the show represent diversity, then they should actually take a look at the culture they're trying to represent. What I saw last episode was a caricature of hispanic culture.
I'm sorry, but I did not see anything that actually brought diversity to the episode. It glamorized a stereotype of hispanic culture. Maybe hispanic culture is radically different on the west coast (though I doubt it), but this episode had absolutely nothing to do with the culture I grew up with. It doesn't count as bringing in "ethnicity" or, rather, diversity, if the culture is so grossly misprepresented.
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Drumchik
Captain
I thought Gum Drops was re-written due to the death of Billy's nephew? But, you could be right about Nick/George's scenes. However, what's the excuse for the lack of Cath and Greg?
Cath had four scenes, but they were so small it made it seem less. :lol: Greg only had the one scene in the AV lab with Ray.
I didn't really even notice the visuals that much. :lol: I mean as far as filters and lighting and all of that.
I haven't seen the episode yet, but it's also possible that Catherine's role was lessened because Marg has been having a difficult time personally.
Not sure about Eric though.
But we do all know that Ray is now one of the main characters right? And that there has been an all-Nick episode and will be a major Catherine episode coming up?
Just surprised at all the hate, that's all.
Hi everyone
A few days ago I talked with friends why I loved this show so much :
Great team dynamic , recurring cast members (yeah I even like Ecklie) ,interesting cases and if they try something new with an epi I mostly love it or find it intriguing and they at least try to be a bit realistic....
And then came this ep and slapped it all back in my face :wtf:
I didn't even knew it was gonna be the 200th ,so I had no great expectations ,but wow I'm really dissapointed and that's a first for me
*The whole time I had the feeling everything dragged painfully slow - I even checked my clock.
*Ok the girl was drugged but come on ,she was running for her life then run!
If she investigates murders and goes alone in such places shouldn't she at least have a friend on call...
*Ok it was allready said that Ray shouldn't even be investigating - but stomping all over a messed up office, picking up his book and not trying to safe some evidence - the whole ep was like that
* the wrestler solved the case *lol* and then they forget that they killed him of ???
And the killer definitely hasen't the same body build as in the first scene :shifty:
Wow I still could go on(tech lab,team,...),but most things have allready been said and I don't want to bore too much ^^ - I just had to vent a little
Criminal minds did a few eps ago the same thing with the dead student girl who was researching cases and had team connections,hehe.
But I loved the Hodges,Nick and Greg scenes
@happyharper13:
I second your comment, for me there was nothing interesting/intelligent...
And as a non american I have no great knowledge of the american hispanic culter ,but what was seen in this ep sadly just feels like one of the crazy-woodo-cliches you sometimes get on the shows .
(Hope my english is not too bad ^^)
A few days ago I talked with friends why I loved this show so much :
Great team dynamic , recurring cast members (yeah I even like Ecklie
) ,interesting cases and if they try something new with an epi I mostly love it or find it intriguing and they at least try to be a bit realistic....And then came this ep and slapped it all back in my face :wtf:
I didn't even knew it was gonna be the 200th ,so I had no great expectations ,but wow I'm really dissapointed and that's a first for me
*The whole time I had the feeling everything dragged painfully slow - I even checked my clock.
*Ok the girl was drugged but come on ,she was running for her life then run!
If she investigates murders and goes alone in such places shouldn't she at least have a friend on call...
*Ok it was allready said that Ray shouldn't even be investigating - but stomping all over a messed up office, picking up his book and not trying to safe some evidence - the whole ep was like that
* the wrestler solved the case *lol* and then they forget that they killed him of ???
And the killer definitely hasen't the same body build as in the first scene :shifty:
Wow I still could go on(tech lab,team,...),but most things have allready been said and I don't want to bore too much ^^ - I just had to vent a little
Criminal minds did a few eps ago the same thing with the dead student girl who was researching cases and had team connections,hehe.
But I loved the Hodges,Nick and Greg scenes
@happyharper13:
I second your comment, for me there was nothing interesting/intelligent...
And as a non american I have no great knowledge of the american hispanic culter ,but what was seen in this ep sadly just feels like one of the crazy-woodo-cliches you sometimes get on the shows .
(Hope my english is not too bad ^^)
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RocketScientist
Police Officer
I completely agree with you xeri
And to those who have objected to the trashing comments of this episode - we rave when it is good and therefore we can do opposite when it is bad. I think it is important to back that up our views with evidence! This is a show with an audience it has educated in forensics. The show has expected and gathered an intelligent audience.
And just saying fans just don't like change therefore we should not criticise a episode or a character is nonsense. House was indanger of being formulaic and it added more characters and is now definitely better - more dynamic. Criminal Minds just seems to get better and better.
The proof of the benefit of change is in the result.
And to those who have objected to the trashing comments of this episode - we rave when it is good and therefore we can do opposite when it is bad. I think it is important to back that up our views with evidence! This is a show with an audience it has educated in forensics. The show has expected and gathered an intelligent audience.
And just saying fans just don't like change therefore we should not criticise a episode or a character is nonsense. House was indanger of being formulaic and it added more characters and is now definitely better - more dynamic. Criminal Minds just seems to get better and better.
The proof of the benefit of change is in the result.
byline
CSI Level One
You're right; I was remembering his health problems and had forgotten about that.
There could be any number of reasons for why those other actors got less screen time. Someone else pointed out later that Marg is having a difficult time, personally. I didn't know that, but if true, it would explain why maybe they're actually doing her a favor by giving her a break. We don't know what's happening in people's lives, and it may be that all are supportive of Fishburne getting extended screen time because they're worn out, or there may be other factors at play. We just don't know.
Well, for some of us, the benefit of change is showing in the result. It's just that we happen to enjoy the result. I can tell you that after the episode was over, my husband turned to me and said, "This is the best 'CSI' season in years." So, in his opinion, these episodes have been a breath of fresh air, since "CSI" seemed in danger of becoming a caricature of itself. Instead, they've shaken up the formula and given us something new. I agree with his assessment, and that's part of why I enjoyed Thursday night's episode. I can see why others wouldn't like it, but all that indicates is a difference of opinion, with some of us liking the direction they're taking with the series now.
I'm sorry and I mean no offense, but I honestly feel that this comment is unfair. The biggest issue people had with this episode had Nothing to do with the plot (which by the way, didn't require any thinking, it was all pretty much spelled out as far as the case went). The biggest issue was that a Milestone episode should feature The Whole Cast and not be one character centered (I don't care who that character is!). As I said, I like Ray and am not opposed to a Ray-centered episode. I'm only opposed to a Milestone episode being character-centered. They could have made it still be Ray-centric and still have more team interaction (this isn't Miami you know, it's Vegas, Vegas the show that's always been great with team interaction and showing said interaction). They could have had the others helping Ray and investigating with him more instead of a tiny scene here and there barely doing nothing.
Yeah, I didn't like that they showed so much of the wrestling matches (one scene would have been enough imo). Yeah, I didn't like that they never found the wrestler's body because that scene was something I didn't see a point to if they weren't going to find it. It just seemed like they were trying to make the episode like a mini-movie or something. But those are the little things. As a regular episode I would have just shrugged these things off.
My main issue was and is that this was the 200th ep in with Marg/Cath, George/Nick and Eric/Greg (as well as Paul/Brass who thankfully got a lot of scenes in this ep) are the ones who've been there from the beginning and helped it get to that point and yet they were thrown off to the side in this Milestone episode.
The conflict of interest thing bugs me. If it was Miami, I'd shrug it off cause they've always allowed their CSIs to work conflict of interest cases. (ie: Delko's dead shrink). But, Vegas has always been great about not allowing their CSIs to work conflict of interest cases. Cases in point: Cath not being allowed to work any cases that involved Sam; Greg not being allowed to work a case involving the brother of a guy Greg was forced to kill in self-defense. But again, this was a little thing.
I have absolutely no problem with an episode making me think, in fact I prefer it. It keeps the brain active. :lol: And I have no problem with change in some forms. But, I just don't like the fact that this milestone episode didn't feature enough of the characters and actors who helped it get to that milestone. The big issue still is the lack of team interaction in a Milestone episode. I have no problem with Ray or with Fishburne. My issue is why the writers would choose to shove those others aside rather than including them more in the milestone episode.
Exactly. Having to think too much is not something this episode required the viewers to do. :lol:
The issue isn't that there was a Ray-centered episode. The issue is that they chose to make the 200th episode a Ray-centered episode. In a milestone episode, it should be focused on Team Interaction and not just soley on one character, no matter who that character is. As I've said, I would still have the same issue if it had been Cath centered even given the fact that she's the other main star. If it still felt like the other original characters were being shoved aside, I would still be upset regardless of the fact that I love Cath.
If there were personal/health reasons why George, Marg and Eric weren't in it a lot, fine. However, if Greg had to only be in one scene, couldn't they have given him a scene where he was doing HIS JOB rather than Archie's? I mean the last episode they had Hodges doing Archie's job, but at least they explained WHY he was doing Archie's job. Is ARchie still away on that convention? :lol: I don't think conventions usually last that long. :lol: It just felt like the writers said at the last minute "oh wait, we forgot to write Greg into the episode, let's throw a scene in there where he's working the AV equipment". :lol:
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All I can say is I kind of liked the episode, it was different it let us see a little bit more of Ray in a light other then Mr Nice Guy, alot complained because they didn't know much about Ray or how he reacts, they show an emotionally charged side of him and people complain *waves hand in the air* thats neither here nor there. Granted I wouldn't have minded more of the orginial cast being in there, we don't know for sure why they weren't, we can only guess and drive oneself crazy doing so.
As to conflict of interest.... This isn't the first case on THIS CSI that has had that as well (could name a couple as I am sure you all could) right down to Grissom. So why should it be any different with Ray? Because it was the 200th ep? meh imo its just an ep number. I mean think about it, the 100th ep was about "The team investigating the death of a transgender" So that leaves storyline out as the cause....yeah. Basically the complaint is all about the orginials getting less screen time based on the episodes number.
I appauld the discussion going on, not so much subtle zings about peoples opinions. Though I have to say about this discussion its a touch unbalanced (don't get fiesty) I mean come on there wasn't one positive thing about this episode? One liked thing about this episode? I am not just talking characters, I am talking forensics, storyline, camera work, lighting, etc. Come on now this show is about alot of things, the characters are just a part of that to help bring it together. I have heard those who have praised it without a negative, I have heard people curse it without a positive, interesting.
But hey thats just my take on it all, everyone continue please and remember jabs at others opinions are not only unfair to them, they are unfair to you as well.
As to conflict of interest.... This isn't the first case on THIS CSI that has had that as well (could name a couple as I am sure you all could) right down to Grissom. So why should it be any different with Ray? Because it was the 200th ep? meh imo its just an ep number. I mean think about it, the 100th ep was about "The team investigating the death of a transgender" So that leaves storyline out as the cause....yeah. Basically the complaint is all about the orginials getting less screen time based on the episodes number.
I appauld the discussion going on, not so much subtle zings about peoples opinions. Though I have to say about this discussion its a touch unbalanced (don't get fiesty) I mean come on there wasn't one positive thing about this episode? One liked thing about this episode? I am not just talking characters, I am talking forensics, storyline, camera work, lighting, etc. Come on now this show is about alot of things, the characters are just a part of that to help bring it together. I have heard those who have praised it without a negative, I have heard people curse it without a positive, interesting.
But hey thats just my take on it all, everyone continue please and remember jabs at others opinions are not only unfair to them, they are unfair to you as well.
symbeline
Witness
No :lol:
I've liked or been neutral to other episodes generally considered bad or boring, so I think I'm pretty easy to satisfy (at least with CSI). I've never thought that an episode was so bad that I wish it was over halfway through it, that's a first for me.
And I'll say it again and again: it wasn't the visuals, the editing, the filters or whatever. I don't mind a fancier or stranger CSI, but I really mind bad scripts and that was mediocre to say the least. Mediocre for an average show, awful for CSI. Neverending clichés, repetitive dialogue, etc.
So no, I didn't like anything, sorry
But yeah, I like to know what others think about it, specially those who liked it. What I don't like is to be told why *I* didn't like it, because it seems that either you loved it because you are pro-change and open-minded, or you hated it because you can't stand to see anything different to what you're used to. And that's not my case and from what I've read in this threat, neither anyone's.
PrincessJ88
Coroner
I just remembered something about the episode that I needed to ask all of you about....whose office did Langston walk into at the end? Cause it looked to me like it was the office that Nick, Greg, and Riley share and it looked like he sat down at Nick's desk to write up that paper. Now clearly Nick wasn't there but it just bothered me.
Nicksfriend
Police Officer
It bothered me too because I would never just walk in at work and use someone else's desk. If you watch the episode clip you can see Nick's baseball eye and his skeleton sitting on his desk.
Postive: At least it wasn't Catherine's desk.
(lol)
RocketScientist
Police Officer
No :lol:
I've liked or been neutral to other episodes generally considered bad or boring, so I think I'm pretty easy to satisfy (at least with CSI). I've never thought that an episode was so bad that I wish it was over halfway through it, that's a first for me.
And I'll say it again and again: it wasn't the visuals, the editing, the filters or whatever. I don't mind a fancier or stranger CSI, but I really mind bad scripts and that was mediocre to say the least. Mediocre for an average show, awful for CSI. Neverending clichés, repetitive dialogue, etc.
So no, I didn't like anything, sorry
But yeah, I like to know what others think about it, specially those who liked it. What I don't like is to be told why *I* didn't like it, because it seems that either you loved it because you are pro-change and open-minded, or you hated it because you can't stand to see anything different to what you're used to. And that's not my case and from what I've read in this threat, neither anyone's.
Here here symbeline.
All that this suggests is that your husband is not necessarily that taken with CSI. Fine. Neither is my husband!!
But if this had been a pilot of a new show (as it almost was!) would it have got noticed? Certainly it would not have had the impact of the actual CSI pilot.
The visuals were pretty (look something positive) but not engaging (sorry cannot help it).
By the way, what is this fear of the negative?
To aim to censor the negative, just because it *may* offend someone, then truely nothing ever can improve. Look at Bush for crying out loud.
We Brits are masters at only looking on the dark side. Even on a (rare) sunny day here people love to complain that it is too hot or too sunny!! Funnily enough it is often true just because we are less prepared for it! But to feel one could not express this would be a deceit. And truth and honesty ought to matter more.
This episode was poor. This still is the strand to discuss this particular episode isn't?
myfuturecsi
Corpse
I just find it utterly amusing to see the majority of us who disagreed on so many other issues such as GSR and Grissom leaving and such, become a unified front on this one episode.
So something good did come out of this godforsaken episode.
Maybe in a few years I'll be okay with the episode, I think for me, I feel for the 200th something more tangent should have been done to honour the long time folks instead of devoting an entire episode to someone who hasn't been on a full season-even though he is the lead character.
It was too soon after losing much loved characters such as Grissom and Warrick and for some here, Sara, so I think timing played a huge factor in the poor reception of this episode.