"Mascara" 200th Ep Discussion *SPOILERS*

Wow. Well, I guess my husband and I are in the minority, because we loved the episode. We both really enjoy how they're shaking up the formula and giving us something we don't expect. I especially liked what seemed to be improvised interrogation scenes between Brass, Ray and the wrestlers. I really like the different, off-balance style William Friedken brings to the episodes he directs. But I guess that style is not going to appeal to everyone. It did us, though . . . and we've been watching "CSI" from the beginning.

 

I agree with you all the way. As a fan from nearly the beginning (first episode being "Gentle, Gentle"), it's refreshing to see a new visual approach to the episodes--which William Friedkin has done with his. While not the most interesting story (I am personally not into wrestling), Friedkin really gives you style that goes with the substance, and livens things up.

For now, I'd like to say that the "Langston" Show, as some of you call it, will be over with soon. Catherine has a episode coming up, and two other characters have episodes coming up (one that I saw partially filmed, and I can tell you--it is going to be great). I notice that the fans are starting to dwindle down, which I really don't understand. This CSI is better than ever, and is probably the best show on TV.

 

Again, I don't think the problem was the visuals, at least not for me. I don't mind a different approach to CSI, but I think they forgot to write a script somewhere along the way. They just connected some unnecessarily loooooooong and boring wrestling scenes to some interrogation parts and something about a girl that died and a man that was possesed or something like that.

Jokes aside, almost every opinion I've read (in this site and other places) criticizes the lack of story and character development, not the visuals.

 

That was me after the episode. A perpetual 'WTF?' look on my face.
First, all bad-plotness aside, Langston would NOT of been allowed to work that case. He had a direct connection to the victim, and they have stated on too many occasions that that is not allowed.

When I first heard that Mexican Wrestling was going to be the 200th episode, I was actually really excited. Even the promo looked good [to me, atleast]. The episode, however, was a different story.

If this had been any episode but the 200th, I would of felt a little better about it. True, every character needs an episode centered around them. I wouldn't of minded the Langston-centricness had this not been the 200th. The show is about the entire TEAM, so why was he the only one who got more than two minutes of screentime? Even Catherine was pushed to the back in this one.

And, towards the end, with the guy saying it was 'the god of violence' or whatever that killed the girl, really confused me. Did they arrest him or not? What happened there? An ending would of been really nice, writers. Not just LF staring at some paper and acting all angsty.

 

I finally finished going through the whole episode.

I noticed how some people were commenting on how Sylvia and Ray had more of a father/daughter relationship. IMO, Sylvia seems like way too much of a flirt with Ray for that. The vibes I got for the entire episode was that there was something very different going on between them, and Ray's anger with the boyfriend only served to strengthen these. I know I would never talk to a professor that way, let alone to my dad. And I definitely wouldn't wear that low-cut of a shirt when doing so.

And seriously, what was with the scene between Fantasmo and Esteban? Since when do we see that sort of altercation between suspects/persons of interest? CSI is about figuring out what happened, not about showing it as it happens. That scene made every part of the episode that came before it completely redundant. Suddenly we know who the killer is, and it's not because of any of the investigation work -- it's because Fantasmo noticed that his mask was missing. Sure, it took Ray and Brass pointing out to him that the mask was found at the scene. But Fantasmo had already noticed weird vibes between Esteban and both Sylvia and a girl in AZ (presumably one of the ones that died). Basically, the idea of that scene seemed really, really stupid and totally uncharacteristic for CSI. I honestly don't remember a single other episode where we saw a scene without a CSI/detective/lab tech/other LVPD employee in it (aside, of course, from the imagined flashbacks). The closest thing I can think of is the chatting DBs in Poppin' Tags, which was still very different than this scene.

To me, the juxtaposition of Friedkin's very visual, naturally sensual style clashed with the more mechanical, digital A/V technology used by the CSIs. It especially stood out when Riley and Ray were using video tools to cut and paste the wrestlers' masks on huge computer screens.

And straight to zooming in on a picture of a wrestler's crotch. Not something I need to see. And this is coming from someone who generally loves muscular wrestlers in tight pants.

It was interesting to be see them pulling Sylvia's phone records right after the scene where she says she's gonna be "abusing that privilege" in regards to calling Ray on the phone for help. One would have expected his name to come up on the phone records, which would have been a good time to call 'conflict of interest'... if the opening scene wasn't enough of one. Though I won't even get in to the whole conflict of interest thing, as I think others have already more than adequately expressed the problems inherent in this episodes with this regard.

It seemed really lame of Ray to badger the boyfriend so immediately after telling him Sylvia is dead. It's like he's acting annoyed when the boyfriend is a bit speechless. Seriously, grief takes time -- like days, weeks, months, etc. Five seconds is definitely not adequate.

Overall, we've already seen examples of Ray taking the personal route to limited success, in contrast to utilizing science. Perhaps this episode, based on the end, is supposed to highlight how his personal strategy often fails, as his personal connection to the case leads to the pseudo-breakdown. I would say that his connection does emphasize the differences between him and Grissom, though I don't think it's in the best way.

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People have already summed up a lot of the other negatives about his episode (lack of other cast members, et al), so I'll go to the other thing that really, really frustrated me with this episode.

Part of the problem I have with the wrestling part is that Friedkin had talked about how excited he was about showing something that's important to latino culture. Friedkin emphasized in his interview how big lucha libre is in Hispanic culture, which made me think it would represent that culture in the process. I love wrestling, I love hispanic culture and I have spent a lot of time watching sporting matches at hispanic bars. But as someone who grew up in a largely Hispanic area, I found the presentation of Hispanic culture in this case very frustrating and borderline racist.

Overall, I feel like this episode embodied a caricature of American stereotypes about hispanic culture. It has nothing to do with the hispanic culture I know and love, and the choice in characters seems borderline racist. I was really excited to finally see CSI covering a different culture, let alone one that I feel a part of, and was very, very disappointed. In other CSI episodes where they're covering people from so-called 'white' culture, there are still sympathetic characters who are from said 'white' culture. Here, in an episode that was supposed to be looking at something that's special to hispanic culture, the only sympathetic characters -- Fantasmo and Sylvia -- are clearly from 'white' culture. Fantasmo's real name may be Jesús, but he sounded and looked more like Nick than like any of the other luchadores, fans or other hispanic characters in the episode.

And then there's the Santoría ritual at a house that, from the outside, is covered with... well, whatever that is outside of it. The majority of Latin America is Christian. The fact that we see a rather out-there Santoría ritual -- complete with shrieking and a convulsing woman -- only serves to highlight the differences between latino culture and the whiter culture that the CSIs are coming from -- differences which, religion-wise, are not nearly as significant in real life -- rather than emphasizing the similarities.

And to the language:

Why is Nick using 'Sabes' when talking to the santoría guy? If you're talking to a suspect, it feels like it would pay to be respectful, but he used the 'tu' conjugation rather than the 'usted.' Brass uses the 'tu' form when he demands that someone open the door to the Santoría house also. Brass's faux pas is at least forgivable just because it's so painfully obvious that Spanish isn't his strong suit, judging by his painfully bad Spanish accent. (And I don't mean this as a a criticism of PG. I honestly can't imagine Brass speaking Spanish with a good Spanish accent. It would seem OOC to me if he spoke it well.)

Overall, this episode was a huge disappointment. It might have worked as a pilot for a different show, but not for CSI. Everything, from the format to the character usage, was way too different from what we've come to expect from CSI. And that, for a show that's already so successful, makes no sense, especially not for a milestone episode. I understand how CSI switches up the format on occasion -- Rashomama, You Kill Me & Lab Rats, and 4x4 & Poppin' Tags especially come to mind as good examples. The conclusion I'm left with is that switching up the format in such a way works when a) there's an interesting plot, b) there's humor and c) when the episode showcases characters whom the audience has grown to love.

I have nothing against Ray, but (as many other people have already said) we just don't know him well enough yet. I honestly think that CSI could have kept the personal angle for Ray and incorporated in the rest of the team more if they had really respected the idea of a conflict of interest. The rest of the team could have investigated the case while still consulting Ray as a person of interest on a regular basis throughout the rest of the episode. It would have given him a unique personal angle, so it would still, in a way, have been 'about him,' and it would've given the other characters the screentime that they deserve (and that fans, after 200 episodes, deserve to see). It also would've allowed for some development in the relationships between Ray and his teammates. As it stands, however, he barely interacted with most of the team in this episode.

Episode Grade: D

 

Well byline we're in the minority here, my honey and I loved it too, and everyone I spoke with liked it, so I was stunned to see all the negative remarks on here in fact taped it so we could watch it again, I do understand about the team not being in it more, but it was Rays time and his friend, and I thought it was fast paced and intense throughout. I don't know what fans were expecting and I don't think the writers told WF what to do, or visa versa, it was, I think a conscious effort. It was filmed way back, and all the other stars and the producers and the directors seemed to like it, or it would have been altered, and changed~

 

I enjoyed it, too. While it wasn't the best episode, or as good as the 100th episode, it was still entertaining and enjoyable to watch.

 

:bolian: After going back I realize you praised it to vegaslights good for you, that makes 3 of us, I have no critical comments what-so-ever on this episode I liked it from the beginning to the end. I don't get it on the negative comments, but oh well such is life in the CSI world~

 

That's a little bit rude, don't you think?

So, when somebody doesn't agree with you, their opinion is toxic? Really?

How about, we can agree to disagree, specially when we are having a nice and civilized discussion?

I thought that too. While I'm not very familiar with Hispanic culture (from Latin America), I had the feeling that they were using the old clichés, you know, that Hispanic culture is passionate and male-dominant, deeply religious, traditional and a little bit salvage.

Yeah, that was odd, specially considering that in Latin American Spanish people generally use "usted" instead of "tu" to address even their relatives. If this show was located in lets say, Europe, this faux-pas as you call it would have been less noticeable since I know how difficult it is for English people to distinguish between the two forms for "you" in Spanish, but I was convinced that American people only know to translate it into "usted".

 

Well, if she hadn't been drugged, she might have behaved more rationally. Especially since, as Ray pointed out, she didn't take drugs of any kind. A strong hallucinogenic drug would mess up that kind of person even more. At the very least, she would have been behaving very irrationally . . . which she did. I found that to be quite believable, given the circumstances.

FWIW, I agree with this. Also, I haven't seen anyone point this out, but I was actually glad that there was an episode devoted to this student because, when we first saw her in the two-parter for Grissom's departure, I thought then that it was a bit odd that she got a bit of attention, only to be dropped. I kept expecting her to show up again later in that episode, but she never did. Not then, anyway. Now she finally did, and for me that brought that circle to a close. Should he have been involved with the case so directly? No, obviously not, but it's happened before on "CSI" and so I've long since stopped caring about that technical detail.

I also have a feeling that George Eads' sciatica may have caused a rewrite of the script, just as Grissom's health issues forced a rewrite of the "Gum Drops" episode. My husband has had sciatica for five years now, and it's no picnic. I'm amazed that George is able to do as well as he can, but between the pain and the medication, not to mention the emotional toll that acute and then chronic pain takes on you, it's no picnic.

 

Can someone please tell me why Friedkin has been brought back TWICE when Quentin was only allowed to do the show once-and it was one of the top rated CSIs of all time!

I liked The Exorcist, but as for TV, I think this guy should just never come back to CSI. I don't care if he's a big time director, I don't like his CSIs. I didn't like Cockroaches and I didn't like Mascara.

Honestly, I'm still mad as hell over this episode.

happyharper13 gave it a D. That's very generous as I would give it an F-

 

Hi all

I just watched mascara and I have to say I was bored! And I never thought I'd ever say that about CSI. I thought that although it was visually "pretty" it was so slow. I thought there was just a total lack of tension.

For instance at the start I was just waiting for her to get tracked down and killed. "Oh hurry up, lets get the CSIs and Brass in and on with the mystery". Once the girls, afraid for her life, ran down into ideal locations for being killed I was just reminded I was watching a TV show and not invoved in the plot. Kinda set the scene for the whole episode.

Also they seemed to totally drop all their usual proceedures - eg. Ray going into that office - without a camera and recording nothing. Ray moving the girls hair back before super-dave cleared the body, Ray rushing in a head of Brass, and what about the conflict of interest??!! Grissom set a morale standard that we come to expect now - this was like just about any cop show from the 1970's! Plus Ray;s character was all over the place here like LF still has not sorted out what his character is yet....oh and notice how many times I said Ray too.

I think Catherine was only in 2 scenes, ditto Greg. Oh come on.

2 out of 10. And yeap my vote for jumping the shark....

The CSI producers ought to have raised the bar here not allowed a famous director to run a muck.

I loved Cockroaches. But this is not up to the CSI standard IMO.

Will now depart back into the ttfn