How would you fix CSI: NY?

[Top41]

For the past couple of months, in the grading threads and elsewhere, I've seen a lot of posts from people who feel the show has been going downhill this season. So I thought I'd start this thread to kind of draw out what elements people think are missing from the show this season, and what you think the fix might be.

For me, I feel the problem is in the characters and how they're being handled. The focus has been really heavy on Mac this year, but not in a good way. He's kind of morphing into his own version of Horatio--an expert on everything who always saves the day and sits in judgment of others. Remember in season three, when Mac could actually be wrong? I miss those days.

Danny's badge has definitely been mishandled. I also remember the days when Mac would take Danny to task for his reckless behavior--and when Danny's reckless behavior at least had some twisted form of Danny-logic. Not reporting his badge missing--especially once he found out it was in the hands of Shane Casey made no sense whatsoever. And Mac not coming down on him for it is out of character, too.

How would I fix it? I'd have Mac be wrong about something--really wrong. Maybe it gets someone killed. Or puts him at odds with Stella for more than one episode.

The old Danny needs to make a comeback. The one that cared about something and was passionate. I think there should be major emotional consequences for Danny with regards to the inevitable showdown with Shane. Let's face it--Danny is at his most interesting when he's damaged.

I don't need to see Stella on any more crusades. I'd rather see her facing a moral dilemma, or one related to her career. What if Sinclair offered her a promotion, or even Mac's job?

What do you think the answer is? Or are you happy with the show this season?

 

[CSI17]

First of all, thanks so much for making this thread. I think we'll get a lot of feedback from people here.

I pretty much agree with everything you posted up there, because all of them are true. This season is not the best. If you could remember season 3, now that season was the best, IMO. I think one of the solutions is if the writers get some fresh ideas from new writers. Maybe they just ran out of good ideas because they've been writing CSI:NY's plots for 6 seasons.

There are some nice episodes though. I personally liked R.I.P Marina Garito even if it was Stella who was again saving the day. I liked the way they wrote the episode.

 

[Maya316]

I'm seconding CSI17, this is a really good idea for a thread. Gives me a chance to vent along with really thinking about the problems in S6.

I mean, it has to be said: S6 is by far my least favourite season. It's not that I've found the episodes to be completely horrible in an 'omg I can't stand this anymore:scream:' way, but that's just it. They've been "nice" in a B-average, utterly forgettable way, rather than the awesome they used to be. I'd almost rather have found them gut-wrenchingly awful, because at least I'd remember them from that. I know SVU's taking a huge chunk out of NY's ratings, but I can also see why they'd be falling -- if I were still a casual viewer, I can't think of one episode or scene this season that might've made me stop and watch while channel-surfing. Maybe the Sid/Stella argument early in "Marina Garito", but I wonder how quickly that ep would've lost my interest after stopping.

Whereas I remember getting stopped all the time by scenes of people digging through dumpsters and complaining about it, or by fun experiment-things that people were actually doing on the job (ie, a random game of handball in the middle of the workday) or weird and quirky interactions that weren't just case-related, but seemed like they were being normally shared between coworkers, that made me think these'd be coworkers I'd love hanging around with :lol: Like they were regular people, at work at a slightly-irregular job. That's where most, if not all the characters really got their chances to shine in earlier seasons.

And then the cases would usually draw me in after that. The cases are the huge attraction of CSI:NY (for me), but an equally-huge attraction is how they're presented, how the characters go about working on the case. And I have to say, having people simply explain findings and then act on them by hunting down/interrogating the suspects...not only removes the interesting factor in their jobs, but makes NY seem more like a cop show more than anything else -- a boring one, at that -- and I think that's where it loses out. Because it blends in among all the other cop-shows that have a tiny bit of forensics thrown in. Other shows (Bones, NCIS, Castle) compensate for that by heavy, consistent main-character focus whenever they lack interesting cases; and I actually wonder if that's what NY's been trying to do this year, but it hasn't been all that successful (because with a few exceptions, the stories are either uninteresting or inconsistent or flat-out don't make sense, especially for the characters as we've known them for the past few years).

On a side notice, it wouldn't surprise me if that's because the writers are out of practice with that sort of writing -- they've rarely if ever done it before. The main writers almost all came from the original CSI. And CSI (all of them) have always been about the science and the cases, about the way the people solving those cases work and interact on the job -- and when they have time around all of that, a mini personal arc for whichever character of their choosing.

In that sense, I think they've lost out by removing the two-case episodes, because not only did those made it seem like these characters were doing a job, solving the (many) murders that crop up around NYC. But since a point of the show was how they all handled that job, I imagine it was a lot easier developing mini character stories from that base.

The one-case episodes put a lot more focus on the one case, which means that case really has to shine. Just like a mystery novel about a single case would make the story either about the case, or about the characters solving it. Both would have to be interesting, but either way, it wouldn't be about the job anymore -- it would be about the case, or the characters.

Since that's the route NY has taken with these single-case episodes, it seems like either there should be a lot more story-focus on the NY characters solving the single cases (which is something TPTB rarely take advantage of, at least not in a good way). Or like the cases should be a lot more important and thrilling -- the way 98 percent of the Criminal Minds episodes are -- and honestly, they're usually not, nor are the guest characters/actors often that compelling.

From S1-S4 (the NY seasons that are my favourite and most-watched on DVD ), whenever the episodes were single-case, it's because the case was important and thrilling, and needed the chance to shine. Like Suspect-X's, or Shane Casey's first one, "Hung Out to Dry". The writers brought out their A game on those cases, and it made sense that they were the only case worked on in the episode. There aren't many cases from S6 that I think really needed an entire episode to themselves.

So they should definitely bring back the two-case episodes. But if they're not, I guess that's where I would start fixing things :lol: They should watch the earlier seasons to get a stronger sense of who the characters they've already set up are, if they want to do heavy-character focus on them. Or they should really up their game when it comes to the cases. Most of all, they need to bring back that fun part of forensic, the part they used to focus on in earlier seasons.

 

[Ghawazee]

i believe (and i have said it many times) the main problem this season was the lack of homogeneity. We had a set of individual episodes for every character but not the spirit of a team.
I am not suggesting a team episode all the time but i do expect a connecting thread, a liason linking all of them and we didn't have one this season

We did have one in S1 with Mac's struggle to be alive again
We did have one in S4 with Mac's change after the 333 situation, his trip to London and the cabbie killer story
We had another one in S5 with the coin case and it exploded when Stella quitted
And even when it wasn't my fav S3 also had one with Mac's sex life on a silver tray
Frankie's storyline was also a connecting thread (despite it was a too personal story)

Probably the best developed story so far was Don's story. However i think it was quite unfair because last year in Stell's story many characters were involved in different moments with the coin case and her situation and with this one, those caracters who has a deeply connection with Don just didn't have it anymore so that storyline was unplugged from everybody else except in the final episode of that story when Mac noticed Don was absent

The same happened with Danny. That story seemed interesting because i did like how he started and how he seemed to accept his situation quite well (he only had a crisis later on 6.04) but he was ONLY connected to Lindsay (and thanks God to Sheldon on 6.04!) AGAIN. After alllllllllll their crappy story on S5 (and i am sorry if i hurt somebody's feelings) it looked important to show ONLY how the newly marriage dealt with that situation????????? I would have expected something different considering Danny has a connection to other characters (the one that was respected was the Sheldon and Danny's relationship)

And i better don-t start with Stell. She looked normal only since 6.10 because if she had a connection to Angel and she suffered that unexplained crisis, why didn't she have one back when Aiden left (and it is proved she had a deeper liason with Aiden)?

why was there a tension between Mac and Stella? Their friendship is one of the biggest assets on the show. Independently if she slept with Adam or whoever, why there never was an explanation to that? Even if that storyline was changed, why that distance WASN'T MODIFIED??????? a nice scene between them in a couple of episode doesn't qualify as "being modified"

For me stories were interesting but as it was said before, CSI NY has a great personal content and that personal content bugged me, not stories.
The nature of certain characters when they were modified.

On the postive side, If you think carefully we had original stories this season like 6.10,6.11,6.14, 6.15,a realistic episode like 6.06 , a completely twist on 6.13. A deeper treatment on characters (the Compass killer, Marina Garito) and i found some of them being a jewel visually speaking (6.18 and 6.03)

So in my opinion if they pay more attention to little details (regarding characters and their connection to others) it will be ok

But of course this is just a simple opinion. It's not written on stone!

 

[MacsLady]

More complexity in cases and characters. I thought 'RIP Marina Garito' was a bit of a return to the good old days - the victims weren't white or, as far as I could gather, particularly wealthy, and it was pretty dark too, in content. More gritty episodes like that, please, and definitely more quality guest stars like the actress who played Marina, or Ed Asner from Yahrzeit. No more casting 'famous' people like singers and stuff if they can't act.

Mac:
I would love to see a case where Mac had to deal with a morally difficult situation, was in over his head and really struggling to deal with it, or made a terrible mistake and got someone killed/put the wrong person away. It would show he does make mistakes. And I think Gary could knock any of those storylines out of the ballpark. Such storylines would also give Gary the chance to show off his acting range. It would be something different for the character of Mac too.

Stella:
I'd like to see her deal with a moral dilemma - what, for example, if she found out what Flack did in the s5 finale? Given how she reacted to Hawkes' revelation/behaviour in It Happened to Me, that would be really interesting to see. I'd don't mind her 'crusades' too much, but I'd love to see one where she was put at odds with someone other than Mac, perhaps even the bosses like Sinclair. Stella may be better at dealing/communicating with Sinclair than Mac, but if she pulled some stuff like she did in the Greek coin case, and Sinclair found out....it could be really interesting.

Danny and Lindsay:
For the love of God, split them up. They've become a unit, have very little personal development that doesn't involve one another. I'd like to see Danny and Flack working together, and Lindsay working with Mac, Stella, Adam or Hawkes, to bring out the great chemisty Danny and Lindsay have with those other characters.

Don
More of him, and make him more than just 'comic relief' (though do keep the snarky humour). I'd love to see more Flack/Danny investigating a case, Flack continuing to struggle with Angell's death, Don getting emotionally involved in cases, some continuity on Sam, maybe Don struggling with his drinking issues.

Sid:
More of his creepy place, and more of him getting more involved in cases, like in Flag on the Play, or Marina Garito.

Hawkes:
Develop him more outside of the lab and his work. Is he still doing the Central Park thing? How is his financial situation now? A love interest would be nice, because even Adam has had some, and in 6 years Hawkes hasn't!

Show more of New York, both in terms of locations (i.e. the boroughs) and diversity of victims, suspects, killers etc. Something like s1's 'Rain' would be brilliant, it was so interesting to see Chinatown!

 

[Geeno]

I think season 6 is pretty good. It's not as great as the previous seasons but in my opinion, the show is still watchable.

There are still great episodes this season such as "Manhattanhenge", "Death House", "Criminal Justice", "Uncertainty Principle", "RIP Marina", and "Redemptio". The show hasn't given us episodes with "Yarhzeit" and "Pay Up" caliber right away. That's why I think the change in episode quality was abrupt and noticeable.

I'm thinking that the show is staying true to it's promise early this season that "everything will change in a New York minute". A lot has changed and I personally don't welcome some of them:

• Adam/Stella - for me, it's better if they continue Adam's childish act with and crush thing about Stella than hooking them up.
• Angell's death - I saw a lot of potential between her and Flack to be the hottest couple on TV. They just blew it away. Now that the ratings are down, they can't pull any thing to fix it.
• Danny - he seems so tired, irritated considering he has a family that would pump life to him
• Mac - he's not the only character on the show.

If I were TPTB, I would start all over again on the season premiere next season. I mean, bring back what the fans loved about the show. Bring the old characters back. Make sure the fans are happy. No soap opera arc. Stay true to science.

By the way here's an article about the possible changes on the CSI franchise next fall:

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118018945.html?categoryid=3995&cs=1

Don't worry, no spoilers ahead...

 

[Dawni]

Feel like i haven't been replied in the NY part of here in ages, but this season I've either been confused which is most of the time or just unsure.

All the CSI's have had this tho i feel a season where it just doesn't go right, I know Vegas has had one (Can't remember which) where its just not been up to what we're used to then come back next season and back to the way we know and i hope thats what NY is having just like a small blip before going back to the way we enjoy it

I put its been so so mainly cos its had its moments and I don't think i would ever stop watching it. With Vegas its been the same the episodes haven't wowed me this season.

What bugs me is that NY has always been about the team and its still there one of the reasons i love it but now they seem to be messing up timelines and stories and almost falling back on what they do best.

And the fact they have the potential for a great storyline then it just doesn't develop. e.g. Dannys walking, Lucy (its iffy subject but i felt like its been ignored in an unusual way i almost expected more not OTT but just so we know what might be going on or milestones i would have possibly expected.) TO simply fix the small issues like continuity would be amazing and do it a world of good.

I kind of feel they need to break DL up aswell not in the omg break up but as in separate em place them on different cases, show that they aren't joined at the hip yes scenes together but not so that they only work with each other.

Two case format as well would be nice because its worked in previous episodes they proved that and its gives characters a chance we don't see them all faffing on one set of evidence everyone is off on there own thing.

I feel to fix it they need to go back to what they know we like, and not push mac's i'm always right so far forward. Give us cases which so NY and how different it is from Vegas and Miami. Even give us a multi episode arc like the clay dobson case which i'm not a huge mac fan but its a good episode with a fall out to follow.

They have definately had the good episodes this year and hope the finale works but it does make me wary a tad... But i almost feel this season is a right of passage to getting back on top.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I'd return it to more like it was in S1 with grittier, more compelling stories. I'd get rid of Lindsay and turn Danny back into the passionate, interesting character he once was. Less hit you over the head with a brick Mactimony. More Danny and Flack interaction. More continuity instead of dropping interesting story lines and characters like they never existed. Make use of NYC's diversity.

 

[Tequesta]

I'd return it to more like it was in S1 with grittier, more compelling stories. I'd get rid of Lindsay and turn Danny back into the passionate, interesting character he once was. Less hit you over the head with a brick Mactimony. More Danny and Flack interaction. More continuity instead of dropping interesting story lines and characters like they never existed. Make use of NYC's diversity.

I agree with all of that-out of all the seasons, S1 was definitely the best. I remember reading somewhere that they changed it completely after S1 because the show was in danger of being canceled. I think they should have just dug their heels in and kept it as it is, storylines and all.

I did like it when they started showing snippets of the lives of the characters, but that's all we need to see-snippets. I don't like the Danny/Lindsay story, and even though I'm a Mac fan, it's kind of annoying have at least two or three story lines every season dedicated to him. Or since S4, anyway.

So...
*Less to no Danny/Lindsay-the show is about forensics. It's in the title.
*More stories like the episode in S1 (Blink, Three Generations Are Enough, Officer Blue; they were all fantastic story lines).
*CONTINUITY! (Sorry). What the hell happened to Louis Messer? Is he dead, alive? Is Sonny still in jail? Was Aiden just a figment of their imagination? At least CSI:Miami tried re Tim Speedle when he died.
*Please, less Mac. I know he's a team lead and all, but he's not the only character, ohmigosh
*Danny used to be cool, and he and Flack have a good dynamic when they work together. I kinda miss that

They did get a couple of things right this season-the aftermath of Angell's death, and how Flack dealt with it, and the Compass Killer arc kept me hooked, hoping for a good season, but apparently not.

 

[Carolyn318]

I voted "I'm pretty disappointed with the season". Although for me it was a toss up between that and "It's so bad that I'm contemplating giving up the show". The reason it was a toss up for me is because those 2 choices combined is how I feel: I'm pretty disappointed with the season cause it's so bad that I'm contemplating giving up the show. The only reason I haven't already wrote CSI: NY off my watch list is because I'm holding out hope that season 7 will be better. I can't imagine season 7 being any worse. Then again I couldn't imagine season 6 being worse than season 5. Season 5 wasn't too good compared to seasons 1-4. But compared to season 6, season 5 was all right. If I had to grade seasons 4, 5 and 6, I would give season 4 an A, season 5 a C and season 6 a D-. I can sum up my feelings about season 6 with 2 words and a number: SEASON 6 SUCKS!!!
There have been a few episodes I liked. Here they are:

"Dead Reckoning"
"It Happened To Me"
"Manhattanhenge"
"Death House"
"Flag On The Play"
"Uncertainty Rules"
"Rest In Peace, Marino Garito"

Those are the episodes I found memorable and like to rewatch every chance I get. Seasons 1-5 each had plenty of memorable episodes that I like to rewatch. The way I would fix the show is to go back to seasons 2 and 4, which for me were the best 2 seasons so far, and see what did and what didn't work in those seasons. Then I'd take all the elements that worked and use them in season 7. Here are some things I'd do to fix CSI: NY. You can also read these in my latest post in the "CSI: NY Season 7 Wishlist" thread...which I started.

1...Danny and Stella working a case together like in the season one episode "Creatures of the Night" and the season 2 episode "Grand Murder At Central Station".
2...See Flack working a seperate case when he's not working on a case with the team.
3...Adam needs more field assignments. I loved him being out of the lab in the season 5 episodes "Turbulence" and "No Good Deed" and the season 6 episode "Epilogue".
4...Mac go to Vegas. Horatio has been to NY twice...once in the CSI: Miami season 2 episode "MIA/NYC nonstop" and once in the CSI: NY season 2 episode "Manhattan Manhunt". Mac has been to Miami once in the CSI: Miami season 4 episode "Felony Flight". I'd like to see Mac, with or without Horatio, go to Vegas and work with the Vegas team. Mac and Ray seem to hit it off and get along well in the CSI: NY season six episode "Hammer Down". I'd like to see how Mac would do with the rest of the Vegas team.
5...Or Stella go to Vegas.
6...Danny and Hawkes work a seperate case together. Like in the season 2 episode "Bad Beat".
7...Lindsay and Hawkes work a seperate case together.
8...Stella and Hawkes work a seperate case together.
9...Meet Sid's daughter. Sid mentioned his daughter in the season 3 episode "Not What It Looks Like".
10...Bring back Haylen for one or 2 episodes. Yes. I admit it. I miss Haylen.
11...MORE Hawkes and Sid scenes.
12...MORE Sid.

 

[MoonyGirl]

Interesting thread. Thanks for opening it

I haven't seen the season 6 full, only bits and pieces. But what I've seen and read I think also that this season was not as nearly good as season 5 or 4 example. We have season 5 going now and I'm really enjoying it. So here's my wishes and opinions.

-Please don't change Mac's character too much. I've always liked that a bit dark and mysterious side of his. That triangle thingy can be tossed to garbage! Mac is not the kind of character whose lovelife is "a game" He is or is not with someone. I like Mac centered episodes when there's not too much of'em. He indeed is the main character but that doesn't mean the whole show is about him, of course not! I really wish that the storylines for Mac would be morally/emotionally hard just because Gary is an amazing actor so please let him use his talents!!!

-DL...well I've always found them cute and I adore Lucy but I think it's going wayyy over the top. Especially cause they're married. It would be different if they would be dating then I'd understand it. Lesser DL or change the way you're showing'em.

-Definitely more Mac and Stella scenes. I found it odd that they did the "hot N cold" thing with them. Of course there was the Adam thing. But their friendship is really big thing. Please don't ruin it. I always wait some moment between them. They're so natural and cute.

-Also more SID! He's hilarious and lovely character. I love the scenes with Mac especially!

-Keep Adam as Adam. Cute and nervous Lab tech. He's adorable guy. I like the scenes with Mac and Stella. Like the paper clip in season 5 or Down the rabbit hole in season 4. AND don't push Adam and Stella relationship any further than friendship thank you.

- I think something romantic would be okey to Hawkes. I think it would be nice but again don't over do it.

-Don then...well his healing from the death of Jess was okey in season 6 but again I'd love to Don moving forward. I've always loved his comments and Flack in action! More that please. A good example of a perfect Flack scene was in season 2 when he went door to door asking if anybody had heard anything and then behind that one door was that man with a beerbottle and he was only wearing underpants. The look on Flack's face was PRIZELESS!

- In the end...Stella. I like Rambo Stella. I liked the epi Rest In Peace, Marino Garito.
I think in Stella's character there's not that much I'd wanna change. She's amazing detective. Only that I'd want more is scenes with Don, Danny and Mac.

- In the end all I wanna say KEEP UP THE TEAM-SPIRIT! It was lackign in this season. I want it back. CSI:NY is my favourite show I don't wanna see it doing down!

Thanks

 

[MacsLady]

-Please don't change Mac's character too much. I've always liked that a bit dark and mysterious side of his. That triangle thingy can be tossed to garbage! Mac is not the kind of character whose lovelife is "a game" He is or is not with someone. I like Mac centered episodes when there's not too much of'em. He indeed is the main character but that doesn't mean the whole show is about him, of course not! I really wish that the storylines for Mac would be morally/emotionally hard just because Gary is an amazing actor so please let him use his talents!!!



Thanks

I agree with all this. I love Mac, but he does get a lot of storylines. What bothers me about that isn't the amount of storylines he gets, but that I don't think they always offer the best opportunities for developing the character or for emphasizing/reminding us of what it is that makes Mac Mac. I too miss the darker, mysterious edge to Mac we saw in s1, and would love to see a storyline that reminded us of that. The '333' storyline sort of did it, in that it took Mac to a quite dark place, and the revelation about what happened when he was a kid was very interesting. I also think that recently the 'science geek' side of Mac has somewhat been lost beneath the 'detective/cop' side, and would love to see episodes that brought out that 'science geek' side more, like 'Pot of Gold' and 'Uncertainty Rules'. I would also like to see more episodes in which Mac takes a different, and if necessary, less prominent role in the case, like in 'Uncertainty Rules'. What they did with that episode was very nice, it was Mac-centric without being 'all about Mac'. It allowed Mac to take a role in the case we've never really seen before, except perhaps in Blink, where he was spending a lot of time with the victim and offering emotional support. This not only brought a different, softer side to Mac, but also his science-geeky part, and it also allowed Stella to take on the role of 'lead investigator' and deal more with the 'rational/physical' side of the case, which was a change-up for her too. I also loved episodes like 'Pot of Gold' and 'RIP Marina Garito' because they were personal storylines for Mac that were actually personal, i.e. to do with his life outside the lab. I'd prefer fewer episodes with Mac on a crusade to catch a bad guy/Bad guy on a crusade to get Mac (though those can still be good, and I'd like to know if Mac has a 'Marina Garito' case of his own) and have more episodes that are actually 'personal' to him, perhaps bringing up his Marine past, or his relationship with Claire, or Reed. Obviously such storylines would probably have to start with a case - perhaps a case involving a dead Marine, or one of Mac's Marine buddies, or something Reed was connected to - but that would focus on Mac as a man, rather than as a detective as such i.e. the case would have personal consequences/significance for Mac, but not in the form of him going all out to catch a bad guy or a bad guy gunning for him, but as Sam said, morally/emotionally hard. Episodes like Heroes and Officer Blue kind of touched on it, the Marine being murdered often hit Mac hard, and we got to see the 'Marine' side of him come out in various ways, yet the episode wasn't 'all about him', and in Officer Blue, too we saw him struggling with the death of a fellow cop. Yahrzeit did a good job of that too, even before the revelations about his dad, the case obviously hit Mac hard emotionally. I'd really like to see more like that for Mac.
So not less Mac althogether, just Mac used/developed in a different way.

 

[virginia-hell]

• The characters all look knackered (hi Danny Messer!) - please slip 'em a few Ambiens over the break.
• Speaking of Danny, why has he been totally de-sexified? Can't married men with kids be sexy? I point you in the direction of David Beckham..:lol:
• More animosity and less of a love-in between the characters.
• More characters like a Sipowicz or hard ass opinionated New Yorkers rather than a mother f**king Haylen type.
• Speaking of Ambiens..much less Hawkes..totally charisma-free and benign...

 

[Flack-Angell]

1. Get rid of Lindsay.
2. Make Mac more human. Dude, he's like SUPERMAN, or something! He is never injured, he never makes mistakes and he's never wrong.
3. Give Don and Adam more screentime. They are the only interesting characters now, except Hawkes.
4. Give Hawkes that love interest they promised instead of giving Mac two! No one cares about Mac's love triangle!
5. Bring back the 'A' and 'B' cases. They are fun!
6. Break up Danny and Lindsay, send Lindsay to Montana and give her sole custody of Lucy.
7. Make Danny interesting again.
8. Bring the forensics back. No one likes soap on a crime show.
9. I agree with that person who said that Don should get his own case! It would be really awesome!

 

[sjhubby]

1. Better Stories

2. If they start a story, they should finish it.

3. Adam and Stella together. I know some feel that they should go back to the he has a crush on her, but the fact is they have already slept together and I don't think you can just go back. :luvlove:

4. Retun to the 2 case format.

5. D/L are ok but,they are two different people. Focus less on the marriage and develope both as separate people who can each bring something to the team